Just pulled the trigger on one of these babies....

Hi Trey,

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Originally Posted by thankyoumisterman

Ah, I thought you'd dig it.

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I do! It's unquestionably a superb cartridge and a worthwhile alternative to my SPU :)

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If I could level only one criticism of the S1, it's that it doesn't pull a bit more bass depth out of LPs that really have it - but that's really a minor quibble when the rest of what the cartridge does is so damned good. I haven't heard your particular version of the SPU, but when compared to an old-fashioned of same, the S1 doesn't kick the sound out on its ass through the speakers!

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Lol... I know what you mean. The SPU (and DL-103) drive the bass along with an infectious 'thrust', and superimpose their low-end authority onto the music. The DL-S1 is somewhat gentler in that respect, but I've found doesn't lack any genuine low-end extension when the music demands.

For example, last night I was listening to an audiophile pressing, on London records, of 'The Three Cornered Hat', by Manuel de Falla, shown here: http://www.amazon.com/Falla-Three-Co...0EQGWQ27NE7QGK and when the orchestra starts to 'let loose', the lowest bass notes were easily heard (and felt), as they thundered through the speakers with a rather entertaining visceral intensity! :eek:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/827/a4g3.jpg


YouTube video of the perfomance, for those interested:



Therefore, when deep bass is present in the recording, the DL-S1 lets it through, unhindered, in all its glory. It just doesn't 'lead with its ass', in the way of a DL-103 or SPU, and so because it handles low frequencies in a less 'obvious' way, it can appear as being bass-light in comparison.

Furthermore, I suspect that the DL-S1 is one of those cartridges that requires a lengthy time for run-in, as the more it's being used, the more I can hear the sound 'fleshing out', particularly the bass, which has now all but lost its initial somewhat frigid reticence. Even the (already superlative) mid and top-end has benefited. The sheer clarity and level of musical analysis is now nothing short of breathtaking!

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Altogether a great bargain, and I do believe I'll order another to have on hand if Denon has truly decided to close down production on it.

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I would, if I were you. Judging by what I've heard so far, the DL-S1 is an unmitigated bargain and, when partnered with the right equipment, delivers a sonic performance that belies its low price, in high-end terms. Make no mistake: get it right, and this is a £2-3k cartridge for £500!

In that respect, it continues the Denon tradition of delivering superb SPPV. However, the DL-S1 is a demanding design, and so the use of a suitably high-quality turntable, tonearm (and especially) high-gain phono stage/head amp and/or SUT is mandatory. As such, it would be inadvisable using it with equipment that would normally partner a £500 cartridge, as you will simply not hear it at its best.

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FWIW, the Cinemag Sky30 can be configured neatly around S1's output and impedance characteristics and works exceptionally well into a moving magnet tubed phono stage.

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Thanks for that. It looks a very nice thing. I'll certainly keep note of the Cinemag, should I wish to revisit the SUT route. At the moment, I reckon that the PH head amp is about 85% optimised for the DL-S1. The remaining 15% will come with some further tweaking! :cool:

Marco.

Congrats on the new cart Marco.So will it be used only to play certain types of music? If so,what types does it lean towards,if any that is?

Hi Darren,

Cheers, dude! :cool:

I wouldn't hesitate using the DL-S1 with all types of music, but it probably wouldn't be my first choice for rock, pop or dance, although it is by no means a slouch in those areas. A DL-103 (stock or modified), however, has a more 'boppy' style of presentation, which lends itself better to reproducing that type of music with the required foot-tapping 'fun factor'.

Judging by what I've heard so far, the DL-S1 excels with classical music, whether full-scale or the gentler, more intimate stuff, as indeed was indicated by last night's listening session, not only with the Manuel Falla piece, but subsequent musical performances from Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, Shostakovich, Chopin and Bizet, where the results were simply breathtaking.

As such, by being voiced to excel with those genres of music, it also handles acoustic material (rock or classical - chamber and choral music is also hauntingly atmospheric), female/male vocals and jazz, with similar aplomb, although with the latter it lacks the dynamic alacrity and sheer vivacity of the SPU, especially with trumpet, sax and piano.

In short, I'm not sure if the DL-S1 would be quite your thing, but it's certainly a valuable addition to my cartridge 'arsenal', especially with my ever-growing collection of classical music on vinyl.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Darren,

Cheers, dude! :cool:


In short, I'm not sure if the DL-S1 would be quite your thing, but it's certainly a valuable addition to my cartridge 'arsenal', especially with my ever-growing collection of classical music.

Marco.

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As you have stated in your previous post,by the time you have suitable partnering equipment,it's costing a fair whack! So it's not something i would be going for at this moment in time! I need to get my deck sorted in other areas first as it's back to stock atm! I'm not massive fan of classical,but when i first heard Beethoven's second movent of symphony No 7 (i think that's how you say it!) in a film,i was almost moved to tears! I still get the same effect everytime i play it! I have no idea why this happens! :scratch: It is an amazing piece though.

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Originally Posted by Marco

I wouldn't hesitate to use the DL-S1 with all types of music, but it probably wouldn't be my first choice for rock, pop or dance, although it is by no means a slouch in those areas. A DL-103 (stock or modified), however, has a more 'boppy' style of presentation, which lends itself better to reproducing that type of music with the required foot-tapping 'fun factor'.

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Marco - I'm interested to know how you rate the 103 with classical music - is it refined enough to do it justice?

Hi Jules,

Generally, no. It's not a cartridge that, in stock form, I'd usually recommend to people who listen mainly to classical music. It can sound quite good on some stuff, but crescendos and heavily modulated material usually catch it out (due mainly to a somewhat ragged treble), and also end of side distortion can often be an issue with the conical tip.

However, if a 103 is fitted with a nice line-contact stylus (and also shed of its resonant plastic housing), then it becomes a whole different animal (where the above issues are largely eradicated), and in that scenario, the 103 would be superb with pretty much any music.

In summary, I'd advise against using it for classical music if you're unable or unwilling to modify it from stock, as described above, although much depends on how fussy you are and also how well, or otherwise, a stock 103 gels in your system. In some circumstances its limitations may not be as apparent as they are in other systems.

Hope this helps! :)

Marco.

I agree that the stock 103 doesn't quite do the trick with classical music, especially big orchestral work. The somewhat ragged upper treble doesn't flatter really dynamic symphonic music. And yes, the conical does tend to start giving off a kind of unpleasant inner groove distortion on many LPs.

I do wish Denon would commence production of the Denon 103D anew - it's a great combination of some of the punchy, fun 103 and the more refined attributes of their upper range of cartridges. I have an older version of the 103D retipped by Soundsmith here in the U.S., and it's a corker - but a real pain in the ass to set up, due to its new line-contact stylus.

Well, it seems Marco is very well set for listening for some years!

Marco, are you familiar with the DL304? I'd be interested to know how it compares to the DL-S1. Superficially, I would expect it to be closer in character to the DL-S1 than the 103 is.

Hi Trey,

Indeed - it's going to be interesting swapping back to the SPU later, and finding out how I instantly react, as the DL-S1 possesses a repertoire of talents not easily replicated (far less bettered) by other cartridges. I'm really delighted that I took a punt on it, and wouldn't hesitate advising others doing the same, if they think it would fit the bill and have the kit required to optimise it :)

Agreed about the 103D, and indeed the 103M, if you can find one. The DL-S1 is remarkably close in overall sonic signature and musical presentation to the latter, but probably with a touch more overall refinement.

Tell me about line-contact styli! :doh: I know *exactly* what you're referring to, in terms of set-up, as they reveal any tiny error in the adjustment of VTA, VTF and azimuth. In that respect, it took me AGES to dial in my SPU Royal, as its Replicant stylus is so fooking accurate. However, once you get it right, the musical rewards are substantial, so persevere with that 103D!

Marco.

Hi Shane,

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Originally Posted by shane

Marco, are you familiar with the DL304? I'd be interested to know how it compares to the DL-S1. Superficially, I would expect it to be closer in character to the DL-S1 than the 103 is.

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It is and it isn't... The cartridge that the DL-S1 sounds most like is the (now long discontinued and rare as rocking horse shit) DL-103M.

Yup, I've used a DL-304 in the past (there's pretty much no Denon cartridge I haven't had at some point), and whilst I know where you're coming from, as they share both an electrical and physical resemblance, the 304 is an overall brighter sounding cartridge with more of a distinct 'hi-fi sound'.

The DL-S1 isn't like that. Yes, it ticks all the respective 'hi-fi boxes' with aplomb, but it does it in a way without making that obvious, and so one simply revels in the musical benefits its audiophile prowess provides, rather than becoming 'emotionally detached' by the somewhat ethereal, tonally dry sound of the DL-304, in comparison with that of its more illustrious brother.

Essentially, the DL-304 lacks 'soul' and is somewhat a victim of its 'audiophile voicing', whereas the DL-S1 isn't: it has plenty of soul, whilst still excelling at the expected, and rather prosaic hi-fi considerations. When optimised, its balance is pretty much spot-on. I guess that's why it's Denon's top cartridge! :)

Marco.