my older one is a vax.. blade 2 and its been very reliable. got a new one for upstairs a few months ago. its a shark.
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my older one is a vax.. blade 2 and its been very reliable. got a new one for upstairs a few months ago. its a shark.
no record cleaner now; sold it to a member:D
Yes I saw your posts, nice that you got it sorted with little hassle. it will be a new stylus for me - I have no intention of moving from my 2M Black. It just sounds right to me, so why change? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Exactly, that's why I have used one for the past 7 years. Tried other stuff but they just don't deliver the clarity and dynamics of the 2M. I have considered MC but I would need to spend £2000 to get something really better and another phono stage or SUT. Rather spend my cash on more vinyl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony
Just going back to my suspension issue, apparently a number of 2M stylus can suffer from this, not sure if its a quality control issue especially as Ortofon are now making huge quantities of cartridges for the world market.
A dealer I spoke to recently saw a huge carton of Cadenza Black MC cartridges at a distributor and he recons there must have been hundreds in the box so obviously there is a lot of demand.
Yes I think pretty much on the same lines Steve. If I had bottomless pockets it might be different, but most of us in the real world have to choose one thing over another. At the end of the day it's the music that matters - we buy hifi to make our records/CDs sound better, rather than buying music that makes our hifi sound better! Or we should be...
Not sure where I'll be buying one (Amazon at £369 seems to be best price right now), but I will certainly be looking at it very closely, not a bargain if it arrives bent as a dog's dick.
last time I looked a few years back replacement stylus for mine was £240 which I thought was crazy, now up to £449.
That's almost a week's take-home which is just ludicrous.
Cheaper on eBay but probably fake.
MP300?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
MP500.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I would go through a stylus about every six months, doing that now would be almost a grand a year.
I can afford it but I can't stomach it. Same amount buy me about 200 used CDs.
Two and a half years of those kind of savings could buy you a minty used Accuphase CD player that doesn't have a loading slot :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Macca
You're shining a light on the harsh reality of vinyl replay costs, and it is something most record lovers try not to think about... my records and CDs don't get that many hours play per week (probably about 4/5 hours), and CD/vinyl ratio about 3:1, so my stylus would last a long time. But now I'm home more that will change, so I do need to get it replaced.
I'd be reluctant to chuck the old one away though - is a worn one easy to spot? Would one of those mini-magnifiers that jewellers use do the job? I think we have one somewhere.
I usually have about a four hour session and when I was running both vinyl and digital it would be one or the other, I don't like to change lanes once I'm underway. So soon rack up the hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony
I would wait until I heard degradation before changing the stylus and that isn't a good idea as before you actually hear it going bad there's a risk of damage to the record.
I've read different things about looking at the stylus to check wear. Some say you can't tell others say that you can. Either way seems like a ball-ache too far. The CD is the same every time, no wear and when the player packs in you know right away. I mean my Audiolab transport cost the same as a replacement stylus for my cartridge and although it will die at some point it won't be after only six months and its 'objective' sound quality is better than any turntable system at any price.
Yes I like records, I like turntables, I like playing records, and good quality records on a good deck sound great but overall there's so many other problems aside from the expense (which has now got silly) - that's why the world moved on.
(Yes I do want that Accuphase but so far manage to talk myself out of it).
Except the world did not move on - it moved backwards, back into vinyl and CD was shown the door. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Give it time, 15 years ago I predicted that vinyl would come back because it's cool and retro - and it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I'm predicting CD will come back because people will eventually realise the value in owning a hard copy of the mastering they prefer. One that is an exact copy of the recording, not a bastardization, and which doesn't warp, get noisy, need cleaning etc etc.
CD still shifting more units than vinyl, it's just the total revenue for vinyl is higher because of the premium price.
Adjust for inflation from 1985 to present:
A vinyl new release (£5 in 1985) should cost £15 but it's usually £25
For CD a new release (£12 in 1985) should cost £35 but is usually £10
In any case both a still niche formats since the vast majority of people only use 'free' streaming services. The Wetherspoons of music consumption.
Yeah true steaming is the worlds preferred choice of music consumption because its FREE!
There is a small CD revival happening already as folk can pick up true bargains in crate digging stores etc and I have started to read more articles suggesting CD is actually a better medium for digital playback than file based audio or Hi Rez streaming so I can imagine that would be another vindication for you Martin?
Like I have said before I don't listen to vinyl for anything other than its SQ. Yes its inconvenient and has loads of problems and I am not into the retro thing or even the big deal over the "ritual" and album art. Nope, I only listen to vinyl for one reason. For me it simply sounds better than any digital set up I have ever heard.
still buy cd's here. i copy them for ease of use but i wont get rid. still got loads of vinyl too but no means of play now:D
Tis a thing of beauty, and likely the last disc-spinner you'll ever need. And most other Accuphase gear I see coming up seems to be the wrong voltage. If my numbers come up I'll buy it for you... who am I kidding, if my numbers come up I'll buy it for myself :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Macca
A vindication? Well not basing my life around it lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
No I don't think streaming inherently is worse than CD there's no reason why that would be.
Can think of a couple of reasons it may be in practice - mastering version may be different - with streaming you get what you're given, CD you can choose your master (usually). Also CD playback system is simple, CD player to amplifier, that's it.
Streaming there are more places to get it wrong, in software settings obviously but also more connections and boxes and so more opportunities to put noise into the signal. But done right, which I'm sure is not hard, and with the same master, I see no reason for there not to be identical results. Especially if a person does not know which one they are listening to.
I do think my vinyl set up sounds better than my CDs, but I don't think the difference is night and day. And considering the vinyl rig cost 15x that of the CD player, there probably isn't a logical reason for keeping on with my records. Good thing my brain doesn't work logically :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I'm quite happy to be playing CDs much of the time, and if I thought there was a big discrepancy in SQ I would either have to seriously upgrade the CD player, otherwise the CDs simply wouldn't get played.
I'm not into the retro thing, and certainly not the "ritual" (PITA most of the time), but I do like a bit of album art. Have some of my favourites hanging on the wall :)
Why do you still buy CDs Grant? I thought you were all-in with the streaming these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by struth
I used to prefer the SQ of vinyl but that changed gradually even though I improved the vinyl system over time.
I think what changed was improving the room, amplification and speakers. I started to hear the benefits of a digital source.
It's not that digital is not good enough it's that it's too good. Vinyl is more forgiving. Less top end energy to bounce around a reflective room, less bass and mono bass gives the speaker and the amplifier an easier time, especially with a two way speaker where one driver is being asked to do almost everything. Cut the low bass signal to any small two way and be amazed at the uptick in the quality of what remains.
But just my theory.
Not sure that's going to happen Martin. The wider world (young folk) don't think like us dinosaurs, and will keep on with streaming/file-based, because it's a better fit for their lifestyles. They want the convenience, and have only a passing interest in SQ, where their smartphones and bluetooth earbuds and smart speakers are more than adequate. CDs (and records) are too much of an encumberence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I predict that the vinyl bubble will burst, and sellers will be forced to stop taking the piss. And I'll be there with cash ready :) And CDs will continue to be the great VFM that they are.
well i stream but also steam my own library.. also i like the back up of cds. ive hundreds of them and if i needed to could go back to a cd playerQuote:
Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony
I'm not saying it will come back as a mass-market thing but as a desirable niche format like vinyl is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony
Seems to me if youngsters are buying vinyl as its retro and cool they will do the same with CD.
Just the fact that it's a physical format - they are not used to that so it has novelty, and its cheap enough second hand to be attractive. Just like vinyl was up to about ten years ago.
Anyway time will tell.
Yes Album art can be very cool and nice to be able to read it without a microscope!
Flicking through some vinyl....
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e72eba24_k.jpgB05153C6-6B97-499F-982F-D41184345407 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]/url], on Flickr
Nice.
All about the improved sound quality of course. :D
Sitting waiting to spin some tunes tonight and listening to the hiss and hum as the system warms up! I bet this would drive some OCD audiophiles mad?
At least I know the system is on:lol:
You're not wrong there Jim - it would drive me nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I have used valve amplification in the past (Quad II/22 and Radford STA15/III), and neither made any noise whilst warm up.
Its just a bit of tube rush and toroids buzzing in the amps. Can't hear any of it when the music is playing at 90dB:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
My system buzz's a little then calms down and then is virtually silent apart from some Tx hum from the amp and a very very faint hum through the speakers. All goes when playing music and strangely things do improve markedly when the systems been on for a couple of hours you can hear even less hum/buzz.
Yes funnily my system really sounds at its best a couple of hours in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables
Tonights tweaking is centred around altering the tension on the grub screws holding my arm pillar from moving. I was recently reading an article that was reviewing a tonearm and it mentioned altering the tension on tonearm pillar grub screws and the effect it had on SQ.
I am finding that easing off and just nipping up the grub screws gives the most satisfying presentation. Tightening very tight does seem to have a negative effect in that there seems to be a very slight hardening to the sound and the music is a tiny bit more forward and not as easy going.
Anyone else evaluated this little explored area of tonearm tweaking?
I would have thought any effect would also depend on how the arm base is attached to the turntable arm board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Never tried it. I would suspect that the most important thing is keeping the tonearm vertical and held under tension. I should imagine the tonearm pillar could effect VTA and rake angle if not held vertically. Otherwise, knock yourself out! I expect a 10,000 word essay before tomorrow with respects yo your findings, and it must be fully referenced :eek::lol:
HAHA don't tempt me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables
The arm pillar is on a screw thread that raises and lowers VTA but this is locked when you tighten up the arm pillar grub screws. The whole pillar is held in a collar that is attached to the top of the plinth so the this becomes the armboard I suppose. So if there is any vibration on the plinth this can be transferred to the collar and thus the tonearm pillar. The grub screws tighten and lock this all up and its all connected so vibration either from the tonearm down the pillar into the plinth or vice versa could have an effect.
I could go on........:lol:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b0af30b7_k.jpg315F3B70-E786-4053-B317-5C1ED58D5FBF by , on Flickr
Good call Barry, I attach my SME 3012 tonearm base to a Panzerholz SME cutout that I made to try and damp any vibrations getting into the 3012 tonearm. This is fully attached to my birch ply plinth. The whole thing then sits of spiked feet which sit on a Townshend Seismic plinth, located on a bamboo shelf!Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
Does that wire that you have with JMW tonearms not have some bearing on the arm's performance? Did I read that somewhere or did I dream it?
You could try my solution which is to create a tonearm mount under the tonearm itself, mines Panzerholz. You can't really do not much with the brub screws apart from maybe using an extremely small rubber collar around them?? You could damp directly under where the tonearm lives with silent coat on your TT (be a bugger to get off). You've also got to think about the tonearm cable going into your tonearm, this will transmit vibration from the croft into your TT. The list goes on....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Yes Steve the wire coming out the top is the tonearm cable (Discovery brand on these early Scout TT) It can be twisted slightly to give you a small amount of anti skate and can therefore physically affect the sound. It is quite sensitive as the tonearm is a unipivot and it doesn't take much to knock its performance one way way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony
I always thought that cable was part of what made the turntable look cool, but then I'm a bit strange that way :)
:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony
I suggest you follow the Linn school of arm/cartridge installation: tighten everything until the threads strip, then slacken off a quarter turn. :lol:
Jim have you tried a Panzerholz spacer bewteen the 2M and the tonearm? Probably a worthwhile mod for stopping most vibration getting into the cartridge from the tonearm?
Linn's argument is that excess energy that has not been used to generate an electrical output by the cartridge, should be given an unimpeded mechanical path so it can be absorbed by the mass of the armboard/turntable.
On the other hand, such an unimpeded path might allow vibration from the turntable passing back into the arm and cartridge.
I think it depends on the cartridge and on the turntable.
Vibration control is absolutely everything when it concerns turntables as by their nature they work on the principles of vibration ie stylus in the groove, however all other vibrations either physical or airborne should be controlled so as not to influence in a detrimental way the information produced by the stylus. To this end I am always assessing vibration in and around my turntable and the only way I do this is by trial and error tweaking anything that can be tweaked or looking at the environment and materials the TT sits on or is supported by.
Actual evaluation of the turntable components and their interaction is an area I have now only really started to think about in detail and experiment with so all suggestions are welcome. I know you have looked at this area yourself Andy so any recommendations will be great. I will continue with just tweaking the original components first to see what happens.
Just on the subject of grub screws holding the tonearm pillar secure I do know some folk have experimented with rubber nosed screws so this maybe my next trial. As with everything you just have to try, listen and determine whether something works in a positive way or not but when I think of all the possible areas that can affect vibrations from the stylus in a turntable there are many.
I know that manufacturers do take a lot of this into account when they are developing and building turntables but that maybe just to their ears. After all I have found some serious faults which I would not have done many times with turntables which affect SQ.
Just an interesting read on turntable set up and possible areas that could be a problem.
https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/...system-set-up/
I had a read, and the cartridge set up was interesting. My Benz-Micr0 LP-S can run at 1.8-2.2gm tracking force, several site recommend 1.8gm, I have run it at just over 1.8gm, but the article prompted me to increase the force to 2.0gm, I checked VTA and alignment at the same time and these are still spot on. My initial thoughts, just listening to 2 tracks, on the increased tracking weight is that there is an improvement, what I can only described as tonally better balanced, and a little more warmth in the presentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I will have a longer listen and see if I can give a better description.
I would like to mess around with the VTA again after reading the possible improvements I could achieve but I feel I may run round in circles as different record thickness affects VTA and the 2M black is a nightmare to get spot on anyway. I will have a listen at different tracking weights however as I have stuck at just under 1.6g VTF for sometime and it would be interesting to know if it sounds better at slightly higher or lower VTF. Ortofon recommend 1.5g?
have a good look at this video mate,
its a game changer for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ApPo7htUg
you really need a microsope to check sra/vta but after watching the vid a few times id focus on azimuth and zenith angles,thats where the big gains are.
I will check it out. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by karma1967
I was told by a reputable music and audio shop that one should start with a VTF 0.25g below the maximum recommended value, and then experiment with with smaller values (in say 0.25g steps).Quote:
Originally Posted by AJSki2fly
Contrary to expectation, more wear will occur to both record and stylus if the cartridge undertracks.