Happy especially as they both arrived before the credit card bill..!
Already, even 5 tracks in I am impressed !
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Happy especially as they both arrived before the credit card bill..!
Already, even 5 tracks in I am impressed !
In a few weeks you'll be gobsmacked ! By the music, I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveinspain
Chris:)
I was dubious at the first mention of 200 hours burn in time but I shouldn't have doubted Stan - it gets so much better the more you use it, and I would advocate leaving it running with music on loop, or TV or whatever to try and speed up the process - if it can be running 24/7 then it should sound much better a week tomorrow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmangler
What are you running it connected to (i.e. sources, and cables) in the end?
Oh, and most importantly, enjoy!
I have left it connected to the laptop all day, and shall for the next few days, with it playing music on repeat.
I plan to connect it to the main pc soon via one of Stans digital cables but also have one of Mike Homers cables coming at some stage. I will also connect it up to my iRiver H140 at some stage, as it has a digital out. For now, I will just get used to listening via headphones - I currently have an abcess above a tooth, so am suffering slightly, and my hearing is affected, so no judgments will be made. The advantege of having used headphones is that they need no burn-in, so I can play it with volume turned down pretty much all night. So far all I have been listening to is new music from a cover-mounted magazine cd, so it is all new.
My biggest impressions so far is how small the Caiman is and how comfy and warm the phones are - no cold ears this winter !
Each input needs running in separately, by the way, so only 790 hours to go! ;)
Just a suggestion to Stan for the next model. What about fitting a lightspeed attenuator rather than a volume pot? Cheap and easy to produce yet capable of outstanding performance. Seems to fit in with your design ethos Stan.
I am looking at attenuating the audio signal in the digital domain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
It will be hard to keep a good S/N ratio with digital attenuation, no ?Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
Well, I've had mine for a few weeks now, though I've been working away so not using it as much as I'd've liked. Impressions after a thorough burn in (left on repeat for a good while) are good, though it's not the smack around the chops I expected, its more subtle and profound than that. I'm aware of more space and detail surrounding every element, but this has the sometimes curious effect of making you re-appraise tracks you thought you knew well, almost as if theyve been re-mixed. It has a very analogue quality too, making the CD much more organic sounding in the way good vinyl is. Instrumental timbre is much more faithful too, there's some tracks that really stand out in terms of suddenly realising 'Hah, that's a digital piano' as opposed to a real one, or hearing the difference in guitar being played. Lots of subtle detail in voices too, much more of a sense of being 'in the room'
So overall first impressions are good, I think the Caiman has made a very positive addition to my system...
:gig:
Jason
Dunno till I have tried and listened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
On the Squeezebox/Transporter (that use digital attenuation) it is clearly audible. They use 24bit for that, but, still, it is audible at moderate/high attenuation levels. As a result I know nobody who uses it (the digital attenuation) on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
I made a test the other day plugging the dac directly with the fixed output into a power amp and using the Squeezebox's digital attenuation : it was disastrous.
The only way to make it bearable was to plug it into a variable input of the power amp (it was a NAD C272 with a variable input), then reduce the power's input level while having no attenuation, to an average listening level. Then use the digital attenuation to lower a bit. (I'm not sure I'm clear)
But, of course, you have to try it by yourself. ;)
Attenuation might not be as bad if using the dac chip, of course the only way to know is by trying it
I'm not sure the way its done with the Wolfson chip yet, some chips do it much better than others.
Hi DimitriQuote:
Originally Posted by Themis
I too find that the digital attenuation on the Squeezebox is not acceptable - my impression is that it sucks all the life out of the music.
I have recently started using just the power amp of my NAD C320 BEE, with my modded TC7510 as a preamp and things sound absolutely fantastic.
I'd like to see a Beresford DAC with a couple of analogue line inputs and a decent motorised pot fitted - obviously with a remote control for volume control duties.
Chris:)
"me too"Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmangler
I ran with my SB3 directly into a pair of Audiolab 8000M's and I was happy - happy until I plugged the SB3 into a pre-amp and set the output to 100%. Cor. Yep, the digital volume in the SB3 is aweful comparatively...
Hmmm, I've just tried disabling the SB3 digital volume and the difference is slight in my system. The convenience factor means I will probably change it back.
My system must not be as revealing as yours :violin:
Not sure. The first 30-40% don't have any effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
Listen to the SB at 10%, you will see. ;)
Oh right. I normally have the volume on the SB3 at about 90% and adjust it up and down from there. I can imagine if you have it set considerably lower you will seriously degrade the quality.
odd title but there is madness to my method;)
I have been burning in the Caiman since Saturday, using my Mac to the Caiman via the toslink. I have an app called iWOW by SRS labs and when turned on the sound is very rich with lots of detail. When off, boy, music sounds crappy. I plan on trying it via a 3.5 to RCA (once i can find it) and compare the sound that way. Has anyone else tried this app, as it really seems to make a difference in the sound - running iTunes from my MacBook Pro to the Caiman to the Cayin 88T to my Allison IIs
Ok
did the A/B test...very interesting, the 3.5 into RCA from the Mac has a lot less presence than the toslink via the Caiman. When you turn on the iWOW while using the 3.5 it boosts the sound but when you do the same with the toslink via the Caiman...huge increase in sound fullness.
So what have we learned, the Mac through the Caiman sounds better than from the Mac directly to the Cayin, and using iWOW adds a fullness that is much more noticeable...
the iWOW app is aval for both Mac and PC...and no, I have no affiliation with SRS - except they have some of my money for their app:lol:
Yes, I`ve tried SRS Labs before and I freaking hate it...it sound terrible, seriously.
Best sound I`ve gotten is through winamp output by ASIO plugin.
Hello!
I'm a proud new Caiman owner and I'm still burnin' it in. i'm Currently using the Caiman as a preamp to my Nad C355Bee. It sounds fantastic so far, but I'm expecting the sound to become even better in time. Under 50h so far:)
I just started modding my Caiman. I replaced the opamps with two THS4032CD opamps and replaced a lot of the caps with highend panasonic caps. The result is more detailed sound, better imaging, and more controlled bass. With a little more work on replacing the caps and lowering the 11mhz noise I think this will be the best DAC that I have ever heard.
Just curious what other DAC's have you heard?
Plan to do some extensive mod work myself :D
Its real good to see things finally progressing from simple opamp changes now.
The more information we have about extensive modding on the caiman the better!
Did I read on another thread that Stan is working on a remote digital volume control for his DACs. With suitable active studio monitors such a setup could be an AVI ADM9.1 killer.
Has anyone experimented with Active Studio Monitors driven directly from a Caiman?
I have used a Dac1, a DacMagic, a custom DIY DAC, and a Wavelength Brick V2. I am still working on this DAC, so I will keep you posted. Currently I plan on swapping out some of the panasonic caps for blackgate or elna caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanedudddy2
My Caiman has just landed, and I like what I hear from the off.
Immediately I can hear greater resolution than I get from my modded 7510.
It should be burned in by the end of the year;)
Thanks again Stan
Chris:)
Normally I would not comment further on the sound of the Caiman for at least a month, but I can't contain myself any longer.
Part of the increase in resolution is more subtle than tone and acoustics/reverberation (although they're very important) - it's to do with meter, closely related to the beat, but has more to do with the way musicians play around the beat.
And I already have a greater sense of real musicians playing real instruments because of the increased sense of meter I get from the Caiman.
I think I'm going to be burning midnight oil for some time to come.
Chris:)
I agree the Caiman has very good resolution and handles reverberation, decay and ambience (recording space acoustics) very well because of that; but I have great difficulty in understanding what you say about meter, beat and rubato - that remains the same no matter what the quality of the replay chain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmangler
But then I am deeply sceptical of PRAT - Pace, Rhythm and Timing - and all the subjectivism that goes with it.
The Caiman does what it does because the chips do their job accurately and Stan has the supporting circuitry right.
Rubato? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubato
One interesting thing that I gained from my mods to this DAC was that the bass extension became a little more powerful, which of course exposed a problem area in my room's acoustics, so yet again I am foaming up my walls. I am not complaining though.
Probably because they are too busy listening to music!!!!
At long last having recieved my Caiman over three weeks ago I can only tell you how pleasd I am with i'ts perfomance - so far because of an injury I have only been able to play it on my headpohnes where it has been powered from my lap top - the results are nothing short of stunning.
I have two sets of head phone some Bose Quiet Comfort 2's which are OK a misguided present from my good lady but they are comfortable and a pair of Shure 530's at a price I wouldn't dare tell her- Extended listening periods over.
When i first theard the unit I was amazed the sound stage even with the Bose phones was huge the sound seemed a little bright but the definition was superb and I was hearing subtleties I had never heard before. On classical works especially vocals again I was really pleased - however was I listening to my equipment or the content??
The diferrences were very marked - extended listening the brightness has gone but the space and dimensionality is still there - I can follow all the various instruments and am discovering that layering effect people refer too the Shures always were a revelation as headphones even with the Ipod but the thing that still amazes me is the quality over headphones, considering I have to date been using my computer Itunes abd the basic the Appleloss less format which has its limitations any way.
When I get better I am going to record some CD's using Exact Audio Copy software to see if I can hear the diference.
In have an old Meridian 206B transport when health improves I am going to use the DAC with that I have a Meridian 500 transport and 563 Dac but from memory even using headphones I cant remember the holographic presentation I now seem to be enjoying and I wonder how much I would need to spend on speakers and amplification to enjoy what I am at present
The DAC must be good because I have let my wife hear some of her recordings via headphones and she can hear the difference and her feet tap away and she says that shes impressed with the sound but commented it seems busy - playing CD's through our DVD player she probabaly has never heard the level of detail I have heard on recordings before.
I had a large house using a triamped system through SD1 speakers big boxes with plenty of welly bass and holograpic imaging and soundstage. We live in a small flat now in Glasgow so music in rooms have to be a compromise and I am looking to build a small active system using a Wadia Caiman and Active Quads.
I played a friend of mine some jazz choral work from Jan Garbarek and the Hilliard Ensemble - its a stirring record voices in space accompanied by a saxaphone - he thought it was unbelievable and that was from the computer so I have restarted listening to music and close miked accostic blues I am hearing fingers sliding over frets and people breathing... I am well impressed and from my perspective think after a month of listening money well spent..
Great write up there mate:). I am especially pleased that it was money well spent. I have always been worried by the excessive amounts some DACs costs. However, there is now a new trend appearing where designers are bumping up the price by adding all sorts of additional features. Hopefully the Caiman range can remain true to the ideal with few frills as possible that have no impact on the 'money well spent' principle.
Sorry, but what limitations does the Apple Lossless format have?Quote:
Originally Posted by Psion770
Quote:
Originally Posted by webby
I use FLAC, but one lossless format is as good as another. It's just a "zip" file - the data should unzip cleanly and pass to the DAC.
Some formats manage marginally greater compression than others, but sonically they ought to be indistinguishable. The same cannot be said for lossy formats like MP3, AAC or OGG. They can perform quite differently at the same bitrates.
Lossless formats might be limited for reasons other than audio quality - the tagging (referencing data) may not be handled as well, or the format may limit your choice of hardware and/or software.
The only one I can think of is that the file type is not dealt with natively in many cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by webby
Squeezebox cannot play ALAC without transcoding.
Sony (among others) portable players do not handle ALAC at all.
You'll never find the limitation if you simply use Apple product.
I'm playing ALAC files currently from my laptop using Foobar into my Caiman USB input, and cannot actually tell the difference soundwise between these and the FLAC files on my main Squeezebox Server machine.
The only difference I can see as far as playback is concerned is that FLAC files appear to be CBR, whereas ALAC appear to be VBR.
Chris:)
Fair enough, and I knew about those limitations anyway. I thought there was an implication that it was limited sonically, hence why I asked.
Cheers
Hi,
did anyone have the opportunity to test the Caiman (or stock 7520) with Klipsch RF-7 as speakers?
I am asking because with my old 7510 Mark V the sound was quite a bit too harsh, and I am happy with the Mark VI/4.
I read the Caiman is supposed to be 'brighter'?
Dell D830 (Sigmatel ST9205) SPDIF-coax > Beresford TC-7510 VI/4 > Kingrex T20U+PSU > Klipsch RF-7
The Caiman is certainly not harsh or bright but it is very transparent. On hearing Klipsch speakers at last year's hi-fi show in London I thought they were bright speakers so partnering equipment would need to be carefully matched.
I personally think the stock caiman sounds a bit harsh and bright, just my opinion so don't flame me for it. :P
The Caiman is not immune to transport quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanedudddy2
Mine sounds much better fed from the Transporter than it does fed from the Myryad CD player.
What are you feeding it with?
And on which input?
I agree with Chris, lately I've been playing about with a couple of 24/192 USB to spdif converters, using the stock Musiland USD to provide spdif to the Caiman the sound was quite sharp , swapping over from the Musiland to the Hiface things was more natural, I've had same differences using various CD based transports.
I found using co-axial input the quality of the transport had quite an influence on the sound no matter which of my dacs I use, even the ES9018 Sabre based dac with its Time Domain Jitter Eliminator
Agree to disagree, but I find the Caiman rather immune to transport.
And no, I don't find it harsh. It's a bit over-detailed like a pro equipment, to be honest. But then, almost all recent dacs I've tested have this feature. ;)
In my opinion, a source has to be detailed. If I need to "alter" the sound, it has to be done later on in the chain (at the amplifier/speaker/room level).
Hi Dimitri,Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
I find the the Caiman has the most transparent sound I have ever heard. The only mod I have done to mine so far is go for a top quality 15v linear supply. This made the sound smoother and weightier which is what I like. A bit more "analogue" sounding if you know what I mean.
So Stan, please keep on doing what you are doing as I for one think it's brill.
Regards
Chris
The Caiman is on its way to me and I'll give that combination its chance! I am totally prepared to get some awful sound at first until it's burned in, and I will report my findings here. It will be a great investment for my K-701 in any case!Quote:
On hearing Klipsch speakers at last year's hi-fi show in London I thought they were bright speakers so partnering equipment would need to be carefully matched.
The sound won't be awful at all, except if you already find the sound of the KingRex/RF-7 unbearable. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by nightyy
I was using USB connection.
Interesting!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanedudddy2
And were you using any special drivers like Kernel Streaming or ASIO or just regular Windows?
Hi,
At last I have got all of my set in some condition, at the same time I got Yamaha GTT-2000L with two different arms and mini hp+caiman, so lot of issues to deal with. Anyway I also have this small Corda movie3 with sennheiser 580HD and a price differences between Caiman and Corda are marginal, but sounds are different, Corda dark and more power of lower section, Caiman refined(transparent), fast perhaps more likeable, I donīt know coz it depends on your musical taste. But for me Caiman took more of everything I like. This was with Sennheiser.
Then I transfered some cds on HP 5101 hd (Karan i180, Ref 3a RV,apple lossless, usb) and straight to box it sounds too good without any burning time and I was very happy, so if it even goes better than this it is bargain. What I can say about sound, transparent, ultrafast(perhaps Karan has something to do about it?) also very nice lower and mid . A lot of detail and more analogue sounding than usually dacs are, but if I compare it in short to Yamaha gt-2000L TT with ysa-2/Clearaudio beta/ear834p that Yamaha took the first place(it sounds unbelivable good), but compare to price you pay this dac is amazing.
Ari
Finally, after the christmas days and being sick till yesterday I just have to write something about the Caiman that arrived some days ago.
My main fear was the Caiman could sound too sharp in my setup, where the Klipsch RF-7 emphasize the highs and things tend to be too brilliant sounding in the end.
All I can say now is that I am finally absolutely loving what i get from my equipment, that means my search for a DAC is over.
My impressions (comparing to TC-7510 MK VI/4) are:
- highs are less intrusive and sharp, but absolutely just there with lots of detail
- lows are a little less quantity-wise, but in comparison to the 7510, which laid a thick carpet of less precise lows, what the Caiman does is really sophisticated. (e.g. Dream Theater - Pul me under or Dvorak - New World: IV)
- Strings are beautiful and you can hear every tab. My wife listened to Sol Gabetta (Cello) for some time, the album now really came to life
- Vocals and brass wonderful (Windsbacher Knabenchor - Christmas CD)
- no fatiguing with the Caiman, in fact I now often turn around and am so intrigued that I have to listen conciously for a minute. Can listen for hours no problem with it
This was all heard using a Dell D830 (Sigmatel STAC 9205) ASIO SPDIF(coax) > Beresford Caiman DAC > Kingrex T20U+PSU > Klipsch RF-7
I did not have the time to listen to the headphone out yet, but had been keeping my K-701 plugged in and so the headphone part should be quite burned in.
Thanks a lot, Stan. Music is music again finally!
I'm resurrecting this old thread as I've just acquired a gatored caiman after agreeing a fantastic deal with Werner; an offer I couldn't turn down.
Since hooking it up to my Mac via Airport Express and an optical cable into the Caiman I have noticed the beginning of some tracks being missed. I vaguely recall reading something about this being about signal lock. However, the dac stays on, as does the mac, so what would make the signal lose lock?
I did wonder if it may be something to do with pre gap.
Lee,
just for the record: I did not place the head of a slaughtered horse in your bed, though I'm a big fan of epic Italian family histories.Quote:
Originally Posted by webby
Werner.