Cassette's Not Dead, Apparently!

hi all,
well it would seem that if all tape recorded/playback music is thought to be that unstable compared with digital, and should therefore all be transfered over to the digital domain; then for heaven's sake what are they playing it all back on to get it suposedly more acurate than what was used to record it in the first place? i am sure there are many serious recording engineers out there that have worked through the decades of studio recording who would agree that tape despite its obvious draw backs ie, noise, wow flutter etc still has a certain magic and life to it than any digital source could ever capture.
a great deal of the most magical and breath taking recordings we have today were recorded onto master tape!
anthony...

Good point, Anthony!

Tim, care to comment (after of course you've answered Dolph's post)? :)

Ta!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by anthonyTD

hi all,
well it would seem that if all tape recorded/playback music is thought to be that unstable compared with digital, and should therefore all be transfered over to the digital domain; then for heaven's sake what are they playing it all back on to get it suposedly more acurate than what was used to record it in the first place? i am sure there are many serious recording engineers out there that have worked through the decades of studio recording who would agree that tape despite its obvious draw backs ie, noise, wow flutter etc still has a certain magic and life to it than any digital source could ever capture.
a great deal of the most magical and breath taking recordings we have today were recorded onto master tape!
anthony...

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Excellent points, I agree totally. The very best recordings are those that are AAA (or should that be AAV) or AAD.


Regards D S D L

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Originally Posted by Marco

Good point, Anthony!

Tim, care to comment (after of course you've answered Dolph's post)? :)

Ta!

Marco.

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Sure. Anthony is completely confused. The subject at hand isn't increasing the accuracy of analog recordings by transferring them to digital media, but the relative volatility/stability of the two media. Someone stated that magnetic tape was a more stable media than the CD.

If Dolph could provide a link to the study he refers to, I'd look forward to checking it out.

Tim

Neatly side-stepped there, Tim!

We're discussing many subjects on this thread, not just the one that most tickles your fancy... You and I have just gone 'toe-to-toe' on the subject of 'accuracy' in terms analogue and digital formats, and what we mean by that, so Anthony was merely picking up on this.

I'm sure he'll expand on the volatility/stability aspect of the discussion later, so perhaps in the meantime you could tackle the valid points he made here:

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well it would seem that if all tape recorded/playback music is thought to be that unstable compared with digital, and should therefore all be transfered over to the digital domain; then for heaven's sake what are they playing it all back on to get it suposedly more acurate than what was used to record it in the first place? i am sure there are many serious recording engineers out there that have worked through the decades of studio recording who would agree that tape despite its obvious draw backs ie, noise, wow flutter etc still has a certain magic and life to it than any digital source could ever capture.
a great deal of the most magical and breath taking recordings we have today were recorded onto master tape!

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Cheers :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by tfarney

Sure. Anthony is completely confused. The subject at hand isn't increasing the accuracy of analog recordings by transferring them to digital media, but the relative volatility/stability of the two media. Someone stated that magnetic tape was a more stable media than the CD.

If Dolph could provide a link to the study he refers to, I'd look forward to checking it out.

Tim

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I read articles on the subject in different trustworthy non-tabloid newspapers (Politiken, JP, Berlingske Tidende, Information) here in Denmark as well as on DR's homepage (DR=Danmarks Radio - state Radio/television) about a year or three ago.
I also checked up on the BBC part of this, at that time, as being genuine and sincere.

These media I refer to are the kind of media that state visible excuses in public if they happen to write anything turning out faulty.

However, the conclusion of the scientific survey/examination did not lead DR to start storing everything on tape.
Obviously.

It's also a matter of cost/benefit for DR even though they are a state related station.
It all comes down to money when approaching the digital world of mass produced music and broadcasting.

Do not expect me to spend hours finding direct evidence.
You either trust me or you make all the research yourself.

I am not just a young fool bragging around showing off my bisceps and my designer stereo.

Forgive me my english. It's not my native language.

"dolph"

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It's also a matter of cost/benefit for DR even though they are a state related station.
It all comes down to money when approaching the digital world of mass produced music and broadcasting.

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That's exactly my feelings on the matter, certainly in the commercial sector where the vast majority of the 'action' happens - which I why I said earlier in reference to this issue:

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Perhaps that's partly because digital equipment is what's widely available now and cost effective, rather than any inherent superiority of the digital format in terms of stability, per se?

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I think we can all quote our individual experiences when it comes to either CDs or tapes 'going off' through time, however none of this necessarily proves beyond question which media *is* actually superior for preserving recordings over the years, so the jury's still out for me on this one.

I am totally convinced about which one offers the greatest fidelity, though!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Interesting, Dave.

I'd say that the vintage 15" Monitor Reds in Lockwood cabinets I'm using (which incidentally are genuine monitor designs, as used for example at Abbey Road in the mixing of Beatles albums) are unquestionably the most uncoloured speakers I've heard - certainly much less coloured than any Spendors I've experienced (and I've heard most of them, and owned many of them, including BC1s), or ATCs, active or otherwise. The limitations of the active amp packs in the latter, for example, are usually obvious to me during critical listening.

So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there, too, as we do with cassette tape :)

Marco.

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How do you know with ATC's it's the amps? What's wrong with them? How do you know it isn't the drive units (in pre-SL versions) with too much damping and too much 3rd harmonic distortion? I'f you'd heard the 200A's, I doubt you'd be saying this IMO... The ATC mid-dome went through a sticky (groan) patch with problems as it's used wide open with the crossover problems this can give if the driver isn't exactly to spec - I've discussed this with the ATC guys at the time and they had many headaches ten to twelve years ago with consistancy in manufacture (not in released product I should add).

In comparison with live "acoustic" instruments including voice, it's been proven that "legacy" BBC derived speakers like Spendors and especially the latest Harbeths are in a different league to any Tannoy DC driver (or most other speakers on the market these days). This may not matter to you, as there are (severe in the smaller ones) dynamic compromises elsewhere, but I'd still wished that you'd been able to try the Harbeth 40.1 before Howard and Harbeth parted company for some reason (has he got the hump with this forum too? He never seems to post).

Of course the Beatles stuff was mixed using Tannoy Lockwoods. That's all they had at the time (and bloody ugly things they were too) and the engineers couldn't wait to be rid of them by the end I've been told, because they were getting in the way, but by the late seventies, Tannoy had lost their hold on the pro market to JBL and others with screaming horn tweeters (I forget the names). That's one reason why Tannoy set about completely re-thinking the CD driver and crossover and why the modern "Prestige" models don't shreik and spit at you, even those with the old-fashioned pepperpot tweeters, there purely for the far eastern market I understand, instead of the superior (I understand) tulip style wave-guide.

Marco, I'm not saying that you have a rotten pair of speakers, far from it (I'd love to try some myself and I KNOW I'd enjoy them very much indeed!!!) but you have to understand that your hifi amplification and speakers are currently residing in the early sixties with updated wires and components and with all the compromises of the times. As I've said many times - nothing at all wrong with that - and if you prefer this to something more "modern" then good for you. I'm glad you have the money to indulge yourself. (but on another tack, you "will" find retirement at 50 a rather boring past-time after a year or so..:(.)

I'm having fun with my LP's not because I expect them to "sound better" but because I have many decades worth of music on them that I want to hear again. If I get a really good sound from the odd, carefully cut and pressed LP, then I'm really happy, but I don't purely rely on "fidelity" any more to get the music (Linnies and Naimies never did, did they? :D)

Talking about absolute fidelity to the original source, this brings us back to cassettes..

For Gawd's sake guys, be REALLY careful with any "Walkman Pro's" you buy as they're twenty or more years old and they could be a bit flakey on batteries when new. They really don't sound better in a HiFi system than, say, a two head Nak such as a BX2/BX150E style machine and even the humble three head Nak BX300E wiped the floor with the two head models (abd the ZX7/9, CR4, CR5, Dragon and CR7 were tons better again).

I am aware a lot of Cassette freaks cherish Nakamichi Tape Decks.
I fully understand them.
I used to have a selection of the TOTL Nak's.
Even though I sold them all when I got the TCD machines, I still like the Nakamichi very much.

From the Nakamichi machines I would prefer the ZX9 as the best sounding of the bunch.

The CR7, Dragon, 1000 ZXL and the 680ZX are great machines as well.

"dolph"

All this talk of cassettes has got me almost round to conecting my Revox to my system and seeing what it's like. Hmmm, might have a play this weekend.