I had it off just yesterday(!) I'll weigh it the next time I'm modding the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
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I had it off just yesterday(!) I'll weigh it the next time I'm modding the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
Thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Well I can't see 40-year old capacitors still measuring at their original spec, can you? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
And even if they did (a bloody miracle), modern equivalents would still be vastly superior!
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the notion that a fully updated and modified SP10 would be fantastic, but it would end up being even more of a money pit than a modified SL-1200/1210.
Marco.
The electrolytic capacitors in a 40 year old deck will be shot and will need replacing. This is not a problem and I would be happy to check out other components that may have drifted with age too, like the resistors. As Colin said it will need to be a labour of love.
I had always thought that; but, now I'm really starting to question it. Now, as I know you will, take what I say with a grain of salt. But, after drastically improving the bearing (ala Mike New), drastically improving the power supply (ala Paul Hynes), drastically improving the platter (ala Mike New and/or Funk Firm) and replacing the tonearm to suit taste, what is there left to change? That just leaves two things: the motor drive (we're now looking at finding better crystals as apparently Inspire has already done) and the plinth. Changing out a crystal is a simple matter if/when one is found. As I've just proven to myself with a 1500mk2, using the Kaneta approach to re-plinthing makes a huge difference. It's been done before and I am now designing a 1200mk2 plinth in the Kaneta style. Though it can and has been done, most approaches I've seen to re-plinthing an SP-10 are actually just a change of "platform", leaving the unit, as a whole intact, without separating the motor. Again, this is just a guess and maybe more of a question: are the electronics for the motor control in the SP-10MK2 that much better than that of the SL-1200MK2? And, given all that can be done to the 1200 (platter, plinth, crystal, power supply, tonearm, bearing) would the difference in sound quality be so apparent as to make pursuing these upgrades an exercise in futility? Here's where I have to admit to some prejudice; because, even if I could only get the 1200 95% of the way to an SP-10, the availability of parts, for what I call reasonable cost, is enough to make me continue to follow this route. Granted, all I've said could be rubbish; because, though I have heard/listened to SP-10's, I do not and never have owned one. But, if we're only talking 5 to 10%...........Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
You've hit the nail on the head, Biff, with what you've just written. And also to add to that, I'd never be happy with an SP10 unless I knew for sure that it was performing at 100% of its original sonic capability, exactly as it did when it was new (nothing else for me would be good enough) - and I'm not sure that this could ever be fully guaranteed. Otherwise, there would always be the 'what if?' factor, and the annoying feeling that you're using an old turntable, performing short of its full potential.
I bought my SL-1210MK5G brand new four years ago, so I have the peace of mind of knowing that only I have used it, and that the electronics are performing to their original spec and are of current manufacture; moreover I have the satisfaction of knowing that all the mods I've carried out have increased its sonic performance to a level at least equal (and in some ways superior) to that of any SP10 I've heard. And trust me I've heard some VERY good ones, comparing my T/T to them in the same system, so I can speak from considerable experience on this matter.
So no, the SP10 route, therefore, no longer holds any attraction for me. If I were to turn back the clock to before I'd bought my Techy, and embarked on modifying it, and were to choose another route, knowing what I know now about T/Ts, I'd unquestionably buy an immaculate Thorens TD-124, as every time I hear one, even with a modest arm and cartridge, it blows me away because, to my ears, it sounds so musically 'correct'.
For me, it's the ultimate 'no fuss' audiophile T/T: neat and compact, looks fab in a suitable plinth, is superbly engineered, entirely speed stable (seems to, sonically, have the best of both worlds between belt and direct-drive), can easily be made to take a 12" arm, and short of making sure that mechanically it's performing as it should (the unit is easily serviced), the T/T needs bugger all doing to it but fitting a nice arm and cartridge. In short, for me, the TD-124 a totally sorted design.
It would probably also have been rather cheaper too than what my modded Techy has cost to get to where it is now! Having said that however, I'm very happy with my Techy, as to my ears it's one of the finest T/Ts I've heard, playing all genres of music to an effortlessly high standard, and as such is an utter joy to listen to every time the needle hits a record.
I guess that you can't say any better than that! :cool:
Marco.
It would be interesting a SL1200 MK11 vs SP10 shootout!:)
I've been informed that most SP10's can be restored to top performance , not really an issue ! Furthermore it's all very well saying my modded 1200 outperforms an SP10 , but the SP10 can be improved as well , though if had the money and it was available (fat chance lol) I would go for the mk3 , or an LO7D.
Hi Chris,
Perhaps not for you, but it is for me, as I'm a fussy fucker. Just because someone says that an SP10 can be restored to "top performance", doesn't necessarily make it so! ;)Quote:
I've been informed that most SP10's can be restored to top performance , not really an issue !
Yes, of course. No argument there. However, the state of affairs with me is that I've not heard any SP10 so far sound as good as my modded Techy (in its current incarnation), and as no-one I know has fully upgraded an SP10, such a comparison isn't available.Quote:
Furthermore it's all very well saying my modded 1200 outperforms an SP10 , but the SP10 can be improved as well...
Like you, my current comparison benchmark is the L-07D. The last time I compared one belonging to a mate, to my Techy, the L-07D won, but not by a massive margin. And that was before my T/T was fitted with the new Ortofon arm, better SPU, Funk platter and Paul Hynes SR7.....
It would be interesting to revisit the situation again and see what happens, which is something that I intend to do soon, so watch this space! :cool:
Marco.
You're the experienced engineer and I hate to partially disagree, but if the caps were carefully chosen to start with and run well within their tolerances and loading, would they "automatically" dry out? The caps used in HiFi grade far eastern products in the mid 70's do seem to last a heck of a lot longer than the European equivalents - unless it's the Roe sealed ones and even some of the latter go off if pushed hard for decades..Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hynes
Please excuse the convoluted reasoning above, but I'm not sure that all the caps in an SP10 circuit, especially the small signal ones, would need to be replaced. The power suppply caps certainly should be checked, but isn't the blanket condemnation of all the electrolytics in the circuit a little panic inducing???