https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZYQ...ature=youtu.be
above is a link to my TT ,job done pete
Printable View
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZYQ...ature=youtu.be
above is a link to my TT ,job done pete
Respect Pete, looking and sounding v.nice :)
just have to get the platter back , the extension on the music is beyond what i thought was possible , as it was only recorded on a phone, it sounds very good , i may change the spiders to some that are 20mm thick ,which are being made, how ever it sounds fantastic , even with the wrong armboard , i messed the wood top one up , trying to fit the rubber isolating dampers , i made the holes too deep , so that is out for a rework ,
pete
Even over "compromised" Media, can tell that sound has more 'truth" that what I heard with my Michell turntable.
Good work Pete, your work is making a huge difference!
SPEAK TO MICHELL, YOUR IMPROVING JOHN'S DESIGN. :eek:
Hi Gaz , Michell don't want to know, it is their design and they are sticking with it ,,it is up-to Michell if they want to change anything and no any outside help is needed,, i have sent them stuff which they will never acknowledge,, i understand , they have now started to go down the selling of upgrades, including a impedance matched platter, but i was always told the platter was the nearest to vinyl they could make, so why the impedance one?
i found an old Review on the first gyro , the one with the motor screwed to the chassis , it was a very good review,the change in removing the motor to a stand alone one may be the problem with the Belts and not the belt it self , before the motor was fixed to the chassis and the belt had a solid fixed point of contact , with the Pod version you can be 4mm out of center of the hole , stretch the belt or not enough tension , so every one blames the belt , what i did was to use some sorbothane pieces place them between the motor pot and the hole in the chassis , 3 pieces , when the pod is central,simply remove them the pod should be central and the belt have the correct tension , now the belt is correct and the wow and flutter is way down on std ,
all the best
pete
https://fde13g.db.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
i did not get the weights put into the platter, as the CNC Mill is still broken down , i did call in to true point to pick this up along with one for MR Moon , and 2 others that are for test only, they would be considered grade be ,i had bought some 50 acrylic off ebay and apparently it arrived with small holes in the faces, they cannot be sold,the small 3mm x.5mm deep holes have been filled in,,, how ever they will only be used to set up the cnc mill , when i know it is working , in the mean time, i had 2 that were fine,
one has been sent to Mr Moon for him to try ,
pete
Love the look of the platter - hope it makes a difference to the replay of the music to justify all the hard work and expense :)
i will send you one to try , i have a couple of grade B ones, which have marks, in them,i will send one to you soon , pete
Cheers Pete
Managed to snag me an acrylic platter..I was shocked by the physical weight of the thing when it arrived in the post...what a lump..I thought it was my birthday. I eagerly opened the box and behold a thing of beauty.
I wasted no time at all and set my turntable away, after I'd warmed up my gear. I listened to three Lp's with the original platter and no surprise they sounded great, my deck has already had extensive upgrades, and to my ears, this was going to take something special to better the sound..
I stripped the original platter off and put on the new platter, which took very little time, first let me say the platter is beautifully machined and is an exceptionally nice snug fit. I put the anniversary mat on and tried the first LP..Queen II.. Immediately on first impression, the Stereo immage is brilliant and the soundstage is astounding. The bass being reproduced is snapping into place, the music is fast, very musical and tuneful..It was before with the original platter, but this lump is bringing more out of the vinyl..I had to keep playing parts of tracks over and over again, as I was hearing stuff not heard before...a guitar here a drum beat/cymbal there ..this is probably because the image is placing the instruments far better..Dire Straits is superb as is Aha..The Aha LP is the fastest I've heard the music in my system..It's a very busy album too as they do a lot of mixing/tracking on there Lp's..all in all a much nicer listening experience altogether..i confess, I love the look of the original platter with those lovely brass weights hanging down, which are mesmerising, when you watch them, but I love the sound of this platter..which is one solid piece of acrylic,with just enough room to fit over the bearing housing..I've also been able to remove some of the isolation from under the deck, as it was overkill, the platter has superb damping.. I'm a happy bunny and pleased I was able to get my hands on this marvelous piece of acrylic...I can recommend this with no fear...contact Truepoint Audio for more details...I'm glad I did...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b2c8eda8_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...46c49b01_b.jpg
Hi Alan, have you tried one of these? ISOLATE IT SORBOTHANE HI-FI AUDIOPHILE GRADE 3 mm TURNTABLE MAT, they are supposed to be very good, it will give you direct contact with the vinyl, use a good record weight with it to ensure good contact, you should find even more bass control. :)
Looks great and glad you can hear the benefits. Looking forward to hearing how it works on the Orbe :)
Why didn't you just get an Orbe platter from Michell?Quote:
Originally Posted by mad-moon
No thanks...I'll stick with the solid piece of acrylicQuote:
Originally Posted by User211
the acrylic platters were made because it is solid 48mm when completed in thickness, and NOT like the michell orbe doughnut , with a large hole in the center that means the platter is reduced from 60mm to 20mm, also we were told over years that the Michell Platters were as close to vinyl as possible , but now they have to be impedance matched ??? , the acrylic platters are machined from a solid block , this also means their is a choice in the market place, you have the opportunity to buy a product that is solid or one that is glued and melted together and machined , like the suspension , the PSU , and the Armboards there are now choices, some people will always want to know why you did not go to michell, but also cannot answer what is impedance matching ,and why all of a sudden the old platter which is supposed to be as close to Vinyl as possible now needs to be upgraded , with one with a piece of cork to hide the new way they have been machined,
there is a trick to the oil i have been using on my odyssey, i mixed the zx1 with SYNTHETIC SILICONE GREASE WITH TEFLON,50g TIN 2HT PLASTIC SAFE LOW FRICTION, it makes a Vaseline type lubricant , that ends up thin enough to go up the hole, but still lubricates the bearing , i also used to pack the rear of the bearing ball in the cone part , to act like a vibration absorbent , it seems to make the bearing a lot quieter , although it is very quiet now, i know of several people who are trying this , the bearing no longer starts up dry ,
Just need to make a slight correction here, Delrin balls are graded in thousandths of an inch, so a grade 1 ball is round to within 1 thou, which is approximately 25 microns. Ceramic balls, certainly silicon nitride ones, are graded in microns so a grade 3 ball is round within 3 microns.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwernaffield
you are welcome it also depends on what you are willing to pay ,, https://theppb.co.uk
the way the bearing ball works is just to sit in the cone part of the bearing , and not rotate in the cone , it is only a pinpoint bearing , so only rotates on the smallest point , and Not to fully rotate like a bearing in a housing , the contact area is microns, if any wear occurs it will save the top of the shaft , if a torlon or delrin beaing is used, if the grade is grade 10 it would not matter , the bearing ball Never fully rotates in the cone it self,, the oil only laps the very bottom of the bearing , it is the same for the bearing balls used in the suspension , it is a pin point contact ,that is needed,.
Received the acrylic platter today to try on the Orbe so thanks Pete.
Underneath you can see the difference:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
Click on the image to watch the all new Disco Gyrodec...
https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/...fef70114a8.jpg20200717_223853_54704266023141 by Alan Moon, on Flickr
The phitostream pic will have an arrow at bottom. Select bb code and use that in the tree box which adds the IMG info for site
. You had the info up just wasn't in the IMG and brackets that the tree box gives St top of box for reply.
https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/...fef70114a8.jpg20200717_223853_54704266023141 by Alan Moon, on Flickr
Good vid alan
Listening impressions so far:
Played many albums/12 inches and have to say it has improved the SQ no end.
The first album I played was an old fav of mine and probably played the most out of all of my collection (Dead Can Dance - In to the Labyrinth).
First thing I noticed was how detailed it appeared to be with the high hats especially sounding a lot clearer than they did previously.
Each instrument seemed so clear and easy to place and I noticed that the percussion on this album seemed to stand out in a way it didn't before.
After this I played some soul from Barbara Mason - 'A Piece of my Life'
The production stuck out for me as everything seemed so crisp and clean, here voice sounding like she was just in front of me and trying to seduce me (oh err).
There are 2 negatives
1. I knew my turntable speed wasn't bang on but got used to it, the new platter is slightly smaller in diameter which moved the speed closer to what is should be (it was out by about .3 RPM) so I could pick up the slight change but I could always alter the speed, but being the AC PSU/Motor it requires some major surgery (hence why I haven't bothered to change it yet....)
2. The recess for the nut appears to be slightly lower than the original platter - this means the nut is lower than before so when you tighten the clamp it no longer pushes the record down as much. This can be address with a washer which I will check my stash for the right sized one.
But, the SQ has improved - will continue to play a few more records tomorrow and make a final assessment
Your deck looks Great Andy..The new platter looks so much nicer than the black imho..but more importatntly the sound quality and listening experience has been upped ten fold..It certainly is a wonderful platter..anyone with an Orbe or Gyrodec should definitely give this a run out on their decks, again another upgrade that just works..isn't hifi a fun?
Cheers Alan - yes, another brilliant idea started by Peter and seems to just work :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mad-moon
As Pete would say, he does not make these or sell them so if you want to bag one, then give Truepoint a ring (not affiliated with either Pete or Truepoint but know a good upgrade when I see/hear one :))
Regarding your light show, did it make any difference to the sound? Another worthwhile upgrade :lol:
Still haven't seen anything that offers me a 1 micron tolerance plastic ball of any kind - best they can do is 5 micronsQuote:
Originally Posted by gwernaffield
well it does not make any difference , the turntables are not built to that high standard , the bearing is only point loaded, about a pin points worth , sitting on a surface that should be very smooth but is a rough as sand paper , and the cone it sits into is not a very good finish either ,
the ball could be 20microns out of shape you just would not see it or hear in , the bearing is located by the shaft and not the ball , i hope this helps
i have talked to Michell over the cone part , not sure if they have done anything about it the ball cannot sit properly due to the roughly machined cone , if my facts have been wrong in the past my apology, but it makes no difference , we stopped using Delrn and torlon , a while ago, torlon is very hard and can micro crack , Delrin was used and still can be used in the pylons, i use a aluminoxide ball, and not the black ball as i was told by Werner that the Black Ball can also crack ,
as all the bearing balls are made to different standards it is up to the user to check , i don't supply parts, but will help if possible,
pete
It's different to watching the weights fly round on the stock Gyrodec platter..but just a bit of fun Andy...It'll make people smile....:DQuote:
Originally Posted by gninnam
made me smile :)
SUPERB! :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad-moon
Werner really knows his stuff, over on VinylEngine he really helped me when I was getting my Gorbe deck together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwernaffield
yes werner is the boss when it comes to michell, he has his own psu and different motor , he was a good friend to J A MICHELL, knew factory well, he has helped ,,with pointing me in the wright direction on somethings,i did not know the chassis could twist ,until werner mentioned it , when talking about Gert's Mods , so he is the real Michell Man ,
Not plastic but ceramic. Grade 3 Silicon Nitride will get you there. Surface finish is .003 microns and sphericity is .08 microns.Quote:
Originally Posted by phonomac
Is it audible in a Gyrodec? Very. I've been running Grade 3 Si3N4 balls in my Gyrodec for more than 3 years now. I've done one oil change in that
time period and just changed to a new ball with the oil change as the balls are ridiculously inexpensive. Under $5 a ball from Boca Bearings.
One of the biggest bang for buck improvements you will make to a Gyro or Orbe.
it does not matter how smooth the bearing ball or how round , until Michell sort the main problem , the smoothness of the components that make up the bearing it self , with the top of the bearing looking as thought it was done on a hand grinder and not a mirror finish , and the cone has the same problem , if you can feel the top of the bearing shaft with you finger it is too rough , the bering having to bed in which takes a long long long time, the ball sitting in the cone that is like tram line finish cannot sit properly ,
Nothing is perfect Pete, but it does make sense to me to put in the roundest possible ball to ensure that any platter "rocking" would be reduced in the cone area as much as possible, as well as one that could also reduce friction & further vibration at the top of the bearing shaft, regardless of any limitations in the stock bearing. Or, as they say, two wrongs don't make a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwernaffield
I've been using silicon nitride balls now for more than 3 years with excellent results. It makes no sense to me that they should be more prone to cracking than any of the other non-steel balls-there's a reasonably strong argument that they should be less so. Personally, I feel that
the purported problems with micro-cracking are a bit of an urban legend going back to when John Michell was alive and ball bearing technology was
a bit more primitive and there may have been some problems. But that was a long time ago.
I believe a number of very high end table manufacturers are also currently using silicon nitride balls in their bearings and can't see them doing so
if there were serious problems with the balls.
In any event, it is cheap to simply pop in a new ball every time you do any oil change, which I think is a good thing every few years.
I could never go back to a steel ball, any more than I could never go back to the springs now either :)
The silicon nitride ball will, in my experience, sound significantly better than the steel ball right out of the box and it will take probably 30-45 days
to bed in (possibly less with a lot of use), at which point it will be even better. Anecdotally, I felt that the last time I did an oil change and changed the ball there was very little change in the sound of my table. Prior to that whenever I rotated a steel ball or changed it I felt that the new ball had to bed
in entirely all over again and that the sound from the table was a bit edgy/strident for a few weeks.
Proof is in the listening as they say and it's $5 and easily and instantly reversible.
hi Blake i do get your point , how ever until michell sort out the bearing you will always have more noise in the bearing that is necessary , the surface finish is very , poor ,to the top of the being , where it sits in the cone is also that rough the ball does not sit properly , due to the ridges left after the use of what looks like a center drill, to get the ball to fit properly, it will either need to be lapped into the cone or the cone needs to be ground properly , i did the latter made the ball fit the cone , but only the bare minimum contact is needed, in my opinion this helps stop wobble, how ever i have not real proof only what i hear , also the ball NEVER rotates like a normal bearing ball, the pressure holds it into a fixed position , and rotates on a pin point contact only , the ball could be 20microns out of shape it would not make any difference at all, with the pinpoint contact may be half a micron out of round and then lapping it self into the tram line top of the bearing ,
may be if the top had been finished the same as the shaft it would be even less wobble and more central ,, with less rumble , as the ball is forced over the poor finish ,
Hi all if you are tempted to buy a Michell Odyssey 2004 turntable , it should have a badge and also numbered , the chassis has a hidden number , which must correspond with the badge , or paper work , their was only 100 of these turntables made,
they are easy to copy , but it must have the chassis number engraved in a certain place , as proof it is a real Odyssey
more experiments using the synthetic silicone grease with ptfe , and zx1 with oil, this seems to work very well, it stops the bearing from being dry on startup ,i also packed the rear of the bearing ball to help reduce any noise off the ball it self ,
thank you to Blakep for the bearing ball i have not tried it yet , as soon as i do i will send you a PM , it has taken a couple of weeks to get used to the platter , now i have better high notes, the bass is faster and controlled,( plenty off bass with out bass buzz)
i just wish i had the extra weights fitted, how ever they may have caused damaged to the bearing , with the extra weight , no plans now to do anything else at this moment except to enjoy the music ,
pete
I have kept the grease oil mix , it was thought off after seeing that project use a grease oil for their inverted bearings, that is a bit thicker , as the michell bearing acts like a pump,it seemed the best thing to try , so i mixed my own , the deck went faster , now if you slightly push on the platter it will move very very easily,
Hi This problem keeps happening the position of the acrylic screw holes which hold the pylons and should be central to the chassis holes , or you will have to remove the bush out of the center of the pylon , this only allows for the pylon position to be out by 1mm , so if you measure the triangle it should be equal ,
i have one that is way out with 302 302 300, a special set of bases have to be made to get the pylons to work , all because Michel never centralized the pylon posts in the first place which would mean the spring suspension would have to Bend to work but out of spec , you wound never get the Michell bounce correct as one spring would be pulling against the other 2 , which i then have to get truepoint to remake the bases so the pylons work , were it is a manufacturing error by Michell the other way is to re drill the hole in the base , or the spider , using the chassis to get the position and the base ,
place all the bases into the chassis with out the orings and on the adjuster on 2 , the other is the one that is out mark the center of that hole and drill the acrylic to fit
I have been very lucky in getting 1 of Petes Acrylic platters.
Pete was kind enough to let me try his and said if I like it I can then buy it.
I’m not the greatest in sharing thoughts on how the improvements sound but I would like to say Yes this has made quite a big difference to my ears. Don't get me wrong, It sounded excellent before and I love watching the gold weights spinning around but I do like to try improving things further.
The music playback seems to have all been pulled together and tightened. The bass was great before but now it seems very solid.
I did have to adjust the speed slightly but thats nothing.
In the next few months I will trial a few different mats. I have a cork/Nitrile, Plain cork and a leather mat to try. I’ll also try Petes recommendation of a rubber mat.
I just want to say a big thank you Pete! I’m very very happy with my new Gyrodec and I look forward to trying out some of your Pylons in the future.
Heres a few pics with the platter in place.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...49e09537_k.jpgIMG_3323 by Nathan Rose, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6ca3f3fc_k.jpgIMG_3319 by Nathan Rose, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...de27c549_k.jpgIMG_3318 by Nathan Rose, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6287769c_k.jpgIMG_3321 by Nathan Rose, on Flickr
Hi Nathan thanks for the kind words, it was the last B grade i had, now they are bloody expensive, as i dont make them i just managed to get the B grade to let go , so now they are all A grade direct from TP , that one i was using , and have nicked one for my self on monday last week , Just hope Charlie does not knock on the door for his money i use an ORACLE GROOVE ISOLATOR The original special compound rubber mat it is sorbothane , sticks to the platter , i have a anniversary mat , but not the beer mat version , mr moon has the gold spot and he has the same sme arm a 309 , ,sorry you had to fight with the packing LOL :) better safe than sorry ,
pete
please note over the pylons , the following , please check the distance from the center of the small post to the center of the other 2 , they should be equal but to stop these being made i think they are 2 mm out on one point , i know how to do these , if they are 2mm out but please let me know before they are sent , so i can work Michell's new design which twists the springs out of shape, pete
Deck looks fabulous. I'm pleased the platter is doing the business...I'm using the Anniversary Ringmat, which just seems to work on my deck..have fun playing with other mats, but I have a feeling you will like myself, keep going back to the Ringmat..atb...Alan..Quote:
Originally Posted by nuff
Thanks Alan,Quote:
Originally Posted by mad-moon
Yes it’s a good mat. Do you use the clamp with yours? On the ring mat sleeve they say don’t use it but to be honest I can hear any different with it on or off.
I did buy a Michell clamp from Peter...but I find the Anniversary mat is better without it....Quote:
Originally Posted by nuff
Hi Alan and nuff , i wish i could take pictures that good, i have poor eyesight , and could not take a decent picture if i tried, i will retry the ring mat i have , hope the platters are working well , still no mk2 , and never will be , as the weight on the bearing may have been too much
enjoy the music
pete
Hi all please note all the Michell upgrades are made BY Truepoint Audio and not by me, also the pylons use o rings similar to SME, AVID , AND GERT PEDERSON and not Cotton,
i seem to upset SA with the above but this was unintentional after are remark on facebook i will not repeat , all the upgrade solutions have drawbacks i should off put waxed thread and not cotton my apologies for that , my pylons are made of acetal /delrin . SA ones i think may be , Black African wood i think that is what the set i have are made off it may be a harder wood, they are very well finished,
i don't talk about how pete's pylons work ,i will even send you down a dark alley as the secrets are kept in my head , and i very really talk on how the Acetal /delrin ones work accept on wham as you all No i had help off this community to eventually to get them to work,
i then gave them to TPA who has never said anything Bad against another company , so before this i was asked in a PM to change the name and put the price up , so i gave them to TPA to become TPA PYLONS ,job done, they put the price up but included the bearings and some sorbothane parts , in that price , job done , i have left it up to the owners all around the world to leave feed back , job done,
but i will NOT stop TPA from making them,as the are the innocent party that now make them , if people start to have a go on forums you should contact them and ask them to stop , in both ways as this is a two way street , with better things to come,
after all i completed the design with the help off the HIFI COMMUNITY that are benefiting from them , like all systems, not are perfect , i have the IP certificate for this final design , lodged by the government off the UK ,
so i am sorry that some one feels grieved, but i did everything asked in the PM , and do not make them
Is that not like MacDonalds asking Burger King not to make and sell Burgers?? or am I missing something here?