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Hi Stan,
I read the Caiman's booklet about headphone impedance, and I'm not sure I understood how it works...
It's written 1h-32ohms, 3h-64, 4-300 and 5h-600ohms : does this mean that at power on the Caiman checks the volume control and adapts itself ?
Thanks for explaining,
I think that means at the those clock positions you have the corresponding impedance match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
No it doesn't. That's how it works. Unlike speakers in general, headphones come in an impedance range that covers a 20 to 1 ratio. i..e from 32 ohms to 600 ohms. So for a fixed amplification factor, the maximum gain will be reached at different level of the volume pot.
If anyone ever invents an automatic headphone impedance detector, or there is one out there, let me know. It would be very helpful.
Thank you for your quick answers. It's MUCH clearer now ! :)
I believe the Graham Slee Solo headphone amp has such a feature but how it works i do not know :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
You are lucky, Stan, it's only 20:1!Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
What impedance would the phones have that I used with the crystal set radio I built when I was a boy? Over 1K?
In the late 1970s I owned a pair of supposedly HiFi Headphones by Pioneer that had piezo-electric transducers - how would they load an amp?
I have no idea how they would load an amp Brian. Headphone amp design is not the same as power amp design. But I don't wish to get involved in discussions about that aspect of designing. There are numerous headphone orientated websites and forums that have far more and better info.
Are there any internal close-up photos of Caiman?
Think you'd have to buy one Lemon, theres a lot of Stans Competitors would like to get ther eyes on the internals of one.
No manufacturer publishes photos of this type as far as I know?
Gaz.
Hi Jack, have you considered designing your own instead of copying mine;)?Quote:
Originally Posted by lemon
Hi Lemon,
Welcome to AOS :)
On your next visit could you please pop by the Welcome area and tell us what your proper first name is and also where you're from? A list of your system would also be appreciated. This is standard procedure for new members joining our forum, as AoS is a community of real people and not the usual 'faceless' Internet message board one normally encounters.
Thanks in advance! :cool:
Marco.
Well mine arrived today... after ordering yesterday - top service Stan!!
Initial impressions are - physically, a well made unit, it's heavy for it's size.
So I went to plug it in to my Sony 303 ES and discovered I'd made a schoolboy error. I'd confabulated my ES with a Denon I've got in my edit suite and thought that the ES had a co-ax output. It doesn't - toslink only. So now either my loverly cable courtesy of Mike Homar or the Sony is at the moment redundant! :doh:
So I hooked up the Denon in place of the Sony and spun a disc. Now I know that the Caiman requires a significant burn-in, but even initially I can tell there's more info getting through! Bass slam and dynamics were noticeably improved. I've now got the CD on repeat to aid burn-in and I'll give it a proper go later.
Leaves me with a conundrum though... I'll have to test the ES via TOSlink and compare with the Denon via co-ax and see what wins... any ideas?
Jason
A bit of an unfair competition that. You really need something like a Naim or Linn if you are looking for a fair enough shoot out with the Caiman:).
Hi,
I´m new here. Bought a TC-7510 last year (still happy) and discovered this thread only recently.
Last year I got also new DIY LS (kind of Wilson Watt/Puppy lookalike combination with Thiel ceramic units and HiVi-research bass unit). Right now I´m thinking about replacing my old Marantz PM80mk2 integrated (OK for small jazz and acoustic bands, but not enough power with dynamic orchestral music & rock) with a power amplifier (and go directly into it from the Beresford).
Still hesitating between the new Rotel RB1572 or using DIY HYPEX UD modules. I like to switch over to class D for 2 reasons: 1. climate change and 2. I like the sound of my Nuforce Icon in one of my smaller systems.
What would the best way to go: first change the amplification and then bring the Caiman in, or the other way around. I can always use the 7510 in a smaller system.
Stan, if you were referring to my post I mean comparing the TOSlink input of the Sony to the Denon's co-ax, both via the Caiman, to see which transport is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
On that note, do individual inputs require burn-in? If I run the Caiman for say 200 hours via co-ax, will the TOSlink input need any 'bedding in' to give of it's best?
Jason
The burn-in is the capacitors settling down to their long term levels. Nothing else as far as I know?
This year Signal Path introduced the peach tree nova, which is an integrated amp + DAC combi (http://www.signalpathint.com/index.p...cing-Nova.html). It got some rave reviews. The best part of it seems to be the Sabre Reference DAC and the preamp.
I asked the people of Signal Path if they planned to introduce also a DAC-preamp combi only and they told me that this would indeed happen (first half of 2010). Plus, they are going to use the new SABRE32 Reference audio DAC for it, which seems to be even better than the one used in the nova.
My question for Stan is:
would using the SABRE32 Reference audio DAC instead of the WM8716 DAC in the Caiman be an improvement? Are you planning to give it a try in further development plans?
¨The SABRE32 Reference audio DAC series is the world’s highest performance 32-bit audio DAC solution targeted for consumer applications such as Blu-ray player, audio pre-amplifier, A/V receiver and professional applications such as recording systems, mixer consoles and digital audio workstations. With ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream™ DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the SABRE32 Reference Stereo DAC delivers an unprecedented DNR of up to 135dB and THD+N of -120dB, the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy the most demanding audio enthusiasts.¨
ES9018 SABRE32 Reference 32-bit 8-Channel Audio DAC, 64LQFP, DNR 135 (mono) and 129 (8ch), THD -120
ES9012 SABRE32 Reference 32-bit Stereo Audio DAC, 64LQFP, DNR 133, THD -120
Here is the pdf with more information: http://www.esstech.com/PDF/Sabre32%2...F%20081217.pdf
http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC
In 64LQFP package? No way. Far too complex. A good audio DAC chip should not have more than 28 pins, otherwise the PCB becomes far too complex and difficult to keep stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by groov
I heard a lot of manufacturers of cd- and blueray-players and AV-receivers are going to use these dac´s next year. Is it not too complicated for them then?Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
I'll go my way, and they can go theirs:).
The Sabres are very high performing chips , its far more complicated and very expensive to get the best out of them, have a look on the diy section, you can see the work involved I've been doing to improve a pair of diy versions, first one using ES9008 and later on in the thread the newer ES9018 which so far performs excellently BUT even as a diy project would cost many times more than the Caiman dac , its not even cased up yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by groov
The much cheaper Sabre chips like ES9006 will be mainly used in DVD players etc (the current Peachtree dac uses it too) , only ready built commercial unit I know of to be using the highest spec ES9018 is the Moon 750D
Leo,
Since you seem to have a great deal of experience with Sabre based DACs and the Caiman, can you give us an idea of how the differences in the sound in these chips that you've observed. Of course op-amps, circuit architecture, etc are going to play a significant role here as well but we'll have to just accept that as inevitable. Nevertheless, I'd be interested in what you see as the strengths and weaknesses of each DAC chip.
Heads up!
There's a chap over on the Wigwam selling a brand new Caiman currently at £199 delivered (in the UK).
Grab it quick!
Well I can't help it that the Caiman gives the impression that if £200 DACs are that good, more expensive ones are even better:). It does imprint in my mind however that there is a market for a £1000 DAC from me. I just need to find an expensive looking case and some expensive caps:scratch:.
a special badge and a few customers with plenty of dosh! :lolsign:Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
Regards
All you need, Stan, is a small back street workshop that can mill you a few smart aluminium cases out of solid blocks. Well, if Apple can do it . . .
:gig:had to go, I guessQuote:
Originally Posted by technobear
I have been looking for a dac myself as my only source from my pc to go
with these,
1. avi 2000 series pre
2. avi 2000 series monoblocks
3. shahinian arcs 1993
4. sb3
After reading many forums ive come to the conclusion that there seems to be
many contenders but these seem to be the favorite for most
1. benchmark dac 1
2. lavry da 10
3. beresford
4. MF V-Dac
5. twisted pair audio buffalo dac
6. satch dac
7. promitheus dac
8. ciaudio VDA-2 DAC
9. Apogee Mini DAC
10 Nos dac ebay
Any recomendations on the list cheers ocean
There are surely other dacs around... anyway.
If I had to give an adjective to some, it would be, subjectively :
1. Stiff
2. Neutral - smooth
3. [Caiman] Honest - smooth
4. Smooth
5. -
6. -
7. -
8. -
9. Neutral - smooth
10. (don't like at all)
Honest>smooth>neutral>stiff>harch my favorites being from honest to smooth
You can very well include used NorthStar192 and PSAudio dacs (both honest-smooth)
PS: this is the Caiman thread, so, I don't want to get into details about other dacs in it.
cheers for all youre help im thinking caiman cause you can play with the opamps, where would you put the sb3 with analoug out to the pre using theQuote:
Originally Posted by Themis
built in dac cheers ocean
SB3 - Neutral (but simplifying)Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanobsession
And do you think paying lots more money gets you more detail or just hypeQuote:
Originally Posted by Themis
cheers ocean
Pay me lots more money and I'll give you more detail. Honest:).Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanobsession
Lots ? What do you mean ?Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanobsession
IMHO, my dac should never cost more than 20% of my system's value. And I wouldn't buy one if I had a system that costed less than 1000€.
Now, if you mean "is there a direct ratio between added value and added subjective quality", I would say no.
The Caiman is a very good example for this. ;) (little money, lots of qualities)
I think it (the Caiman) is a great DAC for £200. It's probably a great DAC were it £500. But I have to say I bought a Benchmark DAC1 HDR recently and imho it is significantly better than the Caiman (sound-wide. Of course it's also better facilities-wise).
You can't expect miracles really.
oceanobsession,
Also, it's worth noting that many of the comments on this thread are about the Caiman without the Caiman specific power supply (which got held up due to the slowness of regulatory approval). New units are now being shipped with the new power supply. And those of us that got the Caiman with the 7520 power supply are now able to upgrade to the new power supply.
My power supply just arrived today and I will probably wait a bit to comment on it, giving it time to break in. But you can see some impressions of the Caiman with the new power supply (aka PSU) on some of the more recent posts in this forum, and in the Caiman PSU forum.
Good luck in your DAC search. I've found the Caiman to be an excellent deal, and look forward to dipping my toe into op-amp swapping when I have the time (and probably after the warranty has expired).
But as for a preview of my feelings about the new PSU...:gig:
The Caiman and the Benchmark HDR use the same opamps ?
I read that the DAC1 uses the same opamps as the TC-7520.
Just shows how opinions vary in this hobby, I tried a Dac1 and didn't really rate it, I wouldn't say its significantly better than the Caiman
Well, imho, it's even significantly worse, considering the price. But Chippy was talking about the HDR, which is another design alltogether (if I understood properly).Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
It's all a question of taste. A DAC1 dealer loaned me a a HDR to compare against the Caiman and I found the HDR inferior in the bass region, whilst having an exaggerated top end. As for expectation of miracles: on a 1 to 7 price ration, it is saying something when we are comparing the two. That doesn't mean that I can't do better. It's a case a perspective, and budget of the potential customers. This side of £1000 you'll be hard pressed to find anything that can convincingly match the Caiman, let alone out perform it. I reckon that for another £200 I could develop the perfect DAC, but most customers budget has a cut off point of £200. The more expensive the product is, the lower the sales are.
Doesn't that mean Stan that you should develop other products? A Beresford amplifier would be on my christmas wish list!Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
Hi Jerry, I only started my own business about three years ago, so it will take time to add more items. I did develop a small amp using the Tripath chip. JLAND100 actually saw it. But Tripath folded and I lost my source for the chips:(. My German distributor has been selling the few that we built. Look for TC-820 on www.beresford.de . I didn't bring it into the UK since we only managed to make 200 pieces before the bad news with the chips got to us.
Thats really interesting Stan. I seem to remember you commenting unfavourably once about Class D amplification but it may have been that you think its often badly implemented. A pair of Beresford monoblock power amps would be a dream come true.Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
An absolutely straightforward audio power amp in a simple box would match well with a Caiman or 7520. Those who have already abandoned analogue sources would need nothing else. I guess next to the power supply components and the case is the most expensive bit, but a cheap black brick to hide in some convenient corner would be domestically acceptable.
For me - at least 70w and 100w would be better. I have looked at kits to throw in any old box, but you never know what you are buying.
Alternative view: where does this take you?
http://www.m-audio.ca/products/en_ca...phileDSM1.html
Cheap brick power amps that are worthy of the Caiman? :scratch:
One might consider:
Rotel RB-06
Audiolab 8000P
I too have looked at DIYing something - the BK modules look interesting - but by the time you have sourced a nice case and appropriate modules and power suppllies you end up very close to the retail price of the above two.
The Rotel would be my choice. Plenty of reports of problems with the chinese-built Audiolabs.
The 'cheap' referred to the case. no Standac needs a fancy case to prove its worth, and nor would a matching power amp, all the more so because it could be hidden.Quote:
Originally Posted by technobear
The one I heard was the pre amp version, I was told the actual dac part is the same, If spending this sort of money on a dac I choose diy mainly because I know the higher expense goes on the parts which matter to meQuote:
Originally Posted by Themis
I know for 200 quid I'd be struggling to build something to better the Caiman but for the Dac1 price makes things a lot different;)
What Hi-fi give the Caiman 5 Stars in their First Test in the Awards edition which I got today - well done Stan (and presumably that was a pre-PSU model they tested too?)