Calling all SL-1200/1210 owners!

i feel a bit seen off.
i wish i'd started a 'gareths' teccie trek' thread
Johns 3 piece sweet counterweight has arrived along with the sumiko headshell.
fitted the sumiko and had a few spins. the variable azimuth was an instant success. as it comes with better leads we're already on to a winner. its battleship-esque also which goes well with the teccie.

decided it was time to apply the brass beauty. i had trouble finding a configuration in which i could get the tracking force right. found a headshell weight, slapped it on and settled down for a quick listen.
the extra mass on the headshell coupled with the C/W have really brought the deck springing into life.
listened to the 45 version of 'in rainbows' and it was really punching out of the speakers on '15 step' then really delicate on the vocals and orchestra of 'nude' - Thumbs up (x2) John.

still waiting on a decent mat and KAB have informed me that the ps1200s are in production so i reckon it could be 3 weeks before that puppy arrives.
at least i'll settle in to the new set up and the 'improvement' should be instantly noticeable

quick round up then: azimuth adjustable headshell - you've got to really
Johns C/W - allows the headshell and arm to do their 'ting' and is therefore the shiz
:gig:

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Originally Posted by muffinman

i feel a bit seen off.
i wish i'd started a 'gareths' teccie trek' thread
Johns 3 piece sweet counterweight has arrived along with the sumiko headshell.
fitted the sumiko and had a few spins. the variable azimuth was an instant success. as it comes with better leads we're already on to a winner. its battleship-esque also which goes well with the teccie.

decided it was time to apply the brass beauty. i had trouble finding a configuration in which i could get the tracking force right. found a headshell weight, slapped it on and settled down for a quick listen.
the extra mass on the headshell coupled with the C/W have really brought the deck springing into life.
listened to the 45 version of 'in rainbows' and it was really punching out of the speakers on '15 step' then really delicate on the vocals and orchestra of 'nude' - Thumbs up (x2) John.

still waiting on a decent mat and KAB have informed me that the ps1200s are in production so i reckon it could be 3 weeks before that puppy arrives.
at least i'll settle in to the new set up and the 'improvement' should be instantly noticeable

quick round up then: azimuth adjustable headshell - you've got to really
Johns C/W - allows the headshell and arm to do their 'ting' and is therefore the shiz
:gig:

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Its "special" brass gareth, i freeze it for two days then blast it with gamma rays in my specially adapted micro wave cooker.:eyebrows:

Is that so you can change the record in the dark? :)

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Its "special" brass gareth, i freeze it for two days then blast it with gamma rays in my specially adapted micro wave cooker.

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Yes, Captain (Kirk), and if I put some in the engines she'll give you warp factor 4... ;)

Marco.

the isoplatmat hath arrived.
it's early days but atm i think you can add me to the 'meh' list.

sure enough it gets rid of the ding(or dong) of the platter, but my heavy teccie mat was acheiving that.
i have tried it along with the rubber and have found that it sounds better if the iso is on top. the other way round was significantly 'different :doh:'.however, this does not allow enough spindle clearance for clamping if required.

i'm not entirely sure what (if any) improvement it has made, but as i said, early days.
ps1200 is still a while away so i'll continue to listen with it in situ and in a few weeks i'll find out if i can 'live without it' . i stand to be corrected but i'm guessing i'll be able to.

has anyone bought an o/l mat yet?

i've done a bit of chopping and changing with the mat arrangement .i've found that the isoplatmat works well with 3 cork pads on the platter and the michell clamp holding the disc secure. it all sounds rather better than the last configuration of iso and tecmat. can't help feeling that the isomat against my vinyl isn't doing it any favours though. sds sell a neoprene cover. i wonder if this has been 'listened to' or if it's just a response to concerns. i don't really want to shell out for yet another mat as i'm thinking of getting a stan-dac.
No news on the other upgrades as yet (ordered nearly a month ago:()

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No news on the other upgrades as yet (ordered nearly a month ago:()

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KAB is a one man show, give him a call. It took a while to get my PS1200, but it's worth the wait.

ta,
i'll just sit back and wait for a letter from HMcustoms then:doh:
might aswell get on with tx-ing my cds to my other new toy

I doubt there's much of a difference no matter what top mat you use. Just use whatever is best for your records.

Hi Dave,

Long time no hear! Good to see you here, so welcome to the forum :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Dave,

Long time no hear! Good to see you here, so welcome to the forum :)

Marco.

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Thanks Marco, it's a great forum and I've been busy reading the backlog of posts the last several days. I've found a lot of great posts and interesting tidbits in every thread.

Hi Dave,

Thanks. We do our best to try to keep things interesting. We've still got a long way to go though before we get to the standard of Audiocircle :)

How is the place these days? I haven't been there in ages.

Please feel free to impart your knowledge on all subjects, especially on the 1210 as I know you have fairly extensive experience in that area.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Dave,

Thanks. We do our best to try to keep things interesting. We've still got a long way to go though before we get to the standard of Audiocircle :)

How is the place these days? I haven't been there in ages.

Please feel free to impart your knowledge on all subjects, especially on the 1210 as I know you have fairly extensive experience in that area.

Marco.

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Audio Circle just has more members, this place will get there in time. I really haven't been reading the forums for the past 8 months but it seems the number of guys using the Technics has exploded in that time. I can't wait to see yours in a slate plinth.

--Dave

My ps1200 and Cardas arm have arrived. Once the govt. had taken their slice it came in at £340. i'm going to take a few snaps and send them to J7 to see how he feels about putting an ext lead on and what configuration it will take.If i manage to shift the old arm then i may keep the all in final cost below £400. I'm going on holiday on friday :cool::cool:so it's just going to sit there in its box:doh:. i'm a little reticent because my standac has recently been blowing me away and thats about to be upgraded.
watch this space for the review.

Nice one, mate :)

When you get things together and assess them properly start a thread 'Mufty's KAB madness', or whatever, and tell us all about it, with photos.

Have a nice holiday!

Marco.

Mine's in it's box, stashed uder the bed. The decorators are finally at work! Taking the arm off, since I'd not done it before, was something I wanted to leave until I had a while day with nothing else to do.

So the arm project is still on hold, might even have to wait until 2009!

I was lucky with my PS1200/Cardas rewire buy, I got the exchange when the dollar was worth about 0.60€.

cheers

Hi Peter,

Good to see you back! I thought you'd deserted us ;)

I guess that your hi-fi activities are somewhat curtailed at the moment...

Marco.

Hi guys

This might be a subtle opportunity to plug my SL-1200 page here www.SL-1200-MK2.com I can give sound reasons for every modification and answer most questions with a smile!

I'll start a thread on it next week.

Regards

Dave

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Peter,

Good to see you back! I thought you'd deserted us ;)

I guess that your hi-fi activities are somewhat curtailed at the moment...

Marco.

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No, I've just been busy, I also found a new diversion for quiet moments when I can't listen to music. If you're interested at all in boats, I'll point to it. The system was completely dismantled sunday last, and while I still have the TV system set up, and I can connect the mac mini, directly to the Beresford and then to the TV system. It's just not musically involving in comparison, not even close.

I haven't deserted, I just might be quiet for a while.

Hi folks,

been lurking here for a while, just absorbing all of your experiences with the 1200/1210. I'm also the proud owner of a 1210mkII (15 year old), and after reading the glowing opinions here (and there and everywhere...) of the KABed 1200, i've decided to get my own. After a short chat with Kevin (great guy!) via email, a KABed 1200 should be on its way to me in a couple of weeks.

Marco, thanks for your many opinions on the 'table. I noticed that you've gotten a new Jelco arm. Are you going to post a review, and why you've changed? is the Jelco a rega derivative, and so use the rega armboard, otherwise how are you mounting the jelco arm on?

I'm using the 103 currently, and with the stock technics arm and headshell, there's not quite enough mass to match the compliance. I've resorted to sticking a small coin on the headshell. Anything heavier, and the stock counterweight won't be able to balance. Also, I'm a bit concerned about putting too much weight on one spot, as opposed to spreading the weight along the arm. I'll try and get a picture of the coin-modded 103 here when I get home. :)

For the brass counterweight that I've heard so much about, It's a screw on right? What is the mass of the counterweight? I recall that it's in 3 pieces, so how much weight does it bring to the tonearm?

one other thing, about the mats. I've read quite a bit here also about the various mats and experiences using them. I'm currently using the 5mm funk achromat, and because it's about the same thickness as the stock rubber mat, i didn't make any compensation to the arm height. But if you stack the herbie (3mm? 5mm?) with the funk mat (5mm), it goes up quite a bit, and do you adjust the arm height accordingly to keep the arm parallel? I'm still quite a novice at the VTA adjustments.

Quite a bit to read for a first post, but I'm quite excited about my incoming, and just want to keep this excellent thread going for a great 'table.

:gig:

Hi Kelvin,

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Marco, thanks for your many opinions on the 'table. I noticed that you've gotten a new Jelco arm. Are you going to post a review, and why you've changed? is the Jelco a rega derivative, and so use the rega armboard, otherwise how are you mounting the jelco arm on?

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I'll be doing a full review shortly; in fact I've already started the introduction. The Jelco uses a Linn-type fixing which with a suitable mounting plate fits on the 1210 no problem.

Why have I changed?

Well, it was always my intention to eventually fit a 'hi-end' arm on the 1210 once I had used and lived with the modified Technics arm for a period of time and analysed what it did. I prefer S-shaped detachable headshell arms because of the types of cartridges I like and those I intend to buy in due course (Ortofon SPU, EMT XSD-15, etc) so I had looked at suitable arms from Ortofon, Audio technica and EMT, but they were all overpriced in my opinion - I felt that you are paying for the name more than anything else, which is not where I'm at with hi-fi these days as I now seek maximum sound-per-pound value with any equipment I introduce into my system.

So when I seen the Jelco arm pictured in this month's HFW magazine with Sound Hi-fi listed as stockists I said to myself "That's the one!" and then arranged an audition - safe to say that the Jelco met all my expectations! Also, I was fed up with people associating the Technics arm as a 'cheap OEM unit'. I knew this wasn't the case and that when damped and rewired with Cardas cable it offered superb performance but there was always that niggling doubt there that it was somehow holding the deck back. So now I have a top-notch T/T and an arm to match. When I get the SPU or EMT cartridge then people can stop slagging off the DL-103, as it'll be 'hi-end' all the way! :ner:

I'm only joking though as I will always use 103s because I love their sound. My ideal cartridge line-up would be three 103s (an 'R', Pro, and ZU-modified), an Ortofon SPU and an EMT XSD-15. I'd also like a classic Shure MM, and have my eye on an M75ED.

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I'm using the 103 currently, and with the stock technics arm and headshell, there's not quite enough mass to match the compliance. I've resorted to sticking a small coin on the headshell. Anything heavier, and the stock counterweight won't be able to balance. Also, I'm a bit concerned about putting too much weight on one spot, as opposed to spreading the weight along the arm. I'll try and get a picture of the coin-modded 103 here when I get home.

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You need a high mass headshell such as the Audio Technica LH-18 that I use. Coins and such like add unwanted resonance to the headshell which transmits down the armtube and adversely affects sound quality. Using coins to add extra mass is a stop gap method only and should not be seen as a permanent solution.

The 103, in my experience, likes a high-mass headshell on a fairly 'lossy' arm. You don't really need a genuinely high-mass arm, as long as the headshell used has plenty of weight and is of rigid construction. The ideal effective tonearm mass for a 103 is something in the region of 12-15g, which is why the standard Technics arm, and the likes of the Jelco are spot on. The 18g weight of the AT headshell will add to the arm's overall effective mass anyway, so you don't need the armtube itself any heavier. Counterweight balances don't contribute to the overall effective mass of tonearms as they are decoupled from the armtube.

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For the brass counterweight that I've heard so much about, It's a screw on right? What is the mass of the counterweight? I recall that it's in 3 pieces, so how much weight does it bring to the tonearm?

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The brass counterweight balance I use simply slots on to the arm and is held in place with two small grub screws. Mine is in two pieces but you can also get John (Thrunobulaxx) to make them in three pieces and to any weight you want.

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one other thing, about the mats. I've read quite a bit here also about the various mats and experiences using them. I'm currently using the 5mm funk achromat, and because it's about the same thickness as the stock rubber mat, i didn't make any compensation to the arm height. But if you stack the herbie (3mm? 5mm?) with the funk mat (5mm), it goes up quite a bit, and do you adjust the arm height accordingly to keep the arm parallel? I'm still quite a novice at the VTA adjustments.

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Yes you would indeed. You'll find though that it's almost impossible to get VTA spot-on with a 103 on the Technics arm unless you use a combination of mats to get the arm parallel, simply because the 103 is quite a shallow-bodied cartridge (compared to something like a Stanton 500 which the arm was designed to work with) and there isn't sufficient VTA adjustment built into the arm to get it right. Even when the VTA adjuster is wound down to minimum the back of the arm will still be too high. This is one of the reasons why I got the Jelco, and what made me completely change my mat configuration, more of which will be mentioned in the review.

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Quite a bit to read for a first post, but I'm quite excited about my incoming, and just want to keep this excellent thread going for a great 'table.

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No problem. I know exactly how you feel as I felt the same way when I was waiting on my deck arriving from KAB. It's probably the best piece of hi-fi gear I've ever bought :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

I'll be doing a full review shortly; in fact I've already started the introduction. The Jelco uses a Linn-type fixing which with a suitable mounting plate fits on the 1210 no problem.

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Great! Looking forward to this review. Hope it materialises before the 1210 one ... :lol: if the jelco arm is really an improvement even over the tricked out stock tonearm, it would be a cool upgrade to look forward to.

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I prefer S-shaped detachable headshell arms because of the types of cartridges I like and those I intend to buy in due course (Ortofon SPU, EMT XSD-15, etc) so I had looked at suitable arms from Ortofon, Audio technica and EMT, but they were all overpriced in my opinion - I felt that you are paying for the name more than anything else, which is not where I'm at with hi-fi these days as I now seek maximum sound-per-pound value with any equipment I introduce into my system.

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hmm .. on browsing the soundhifi site, the jelco tonearm featured is neither S-shaped nor have a detachable headshell (from what I can see from the picture anyway) .... but it's great to hear that the Jelco's met all of your expectations, otherwise your stock KAB tweaked arm won't be on the way out ...

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I'm only joking though as I will always use 103s because I love their sound. My ideal cartridge line-up would be three 103s (an 'R', Pro, and ZU-modified), an Ortofon SPU and an EMT XSD-15. I'd also like a classic Shure MM, and have my eye on an M75ED.

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agreed. I'm currently using a 103 and the sound is really something else. I've picked up a 103R and a AT33PTG during a recent trip to Tokyo, and am really looking forward to trying each one of them out. But every time I think of making the effort to switch, two things hold me back: 1) the thought of realigning a new cart and 2) the current sweetness of the 103, which i know still hasn't reached its full potential as the arm doesn't quite have enough effective mass to hit the resonance sweet spot, and I would like to hear the incoming KAB 1200 take the cart to another level before considering the switch. so the other two carts would just have to wait ...

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You need a high mass headshell such as the Audio Technica LH-18 that I use. Coins and such like add unwanted resonance to the headshell which transmits down the armtube and adversely affects sound quality. Using coins to add extra mass is a stop gap method only and should not be seen as a permanent solution.

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That's good to know. I'll be making another trip down to tokyo in February, and will definitely be hunting down a couple of LH-18s to pair with my carts. Does the LH-18 go well with the AT33PTG, since it's still relatively low compliance? as for the coin, I'm perfectly aware that it's a stop gap measure, until I can manage to get a better headshell for it. It's currently stuck on with a bit of blu-tac, so hopefully that helps to dampen the unwanted resonance a bit. (see picture for coin tweak :confused:)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...p/IMG_0524.jpg

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The 103, in my experience, likes a high-mass headshell on a fairly 'lossy' arm. You don't really need a genuinely high-mass arm, as long as the headshell used has plenty of weight and is of rigid construction. The ideal effective tonearm mass for a 103 is something in the region of 12-15g, which is why the standard Technics arm, and the likes of the Jelco are spot on. The 18g weight of the AT headshell will add to the arm's overall effective mass anyway, so you don't need the armtube itself any heavier. Counterweight balances don't contribute to the overall effective mass of tonearms as they are decoupled from the armtube.

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ahh .. i learn something new, as i always thought that the counterweight adds to the effective arm mass somehow. so the key is really for a heavier headshell.

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The brass counterweight balance I use simply slots on to the arm and is held in place with two small grub screws. Mine is in two pieces but you can also get John (Thrunobulaxx) to make them in three pieces and to any weight you want.

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No worries. I'll go with your 'tried and tested' duo to begin with, until I'm a bit more sure of exactly how much weight I want, before talking to John for a custom-ed one.

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You'll find though that it's almost impossible to get VTA spot-on with a 103 on the Technics arm unless you use a combination of mats to get the arm parallel, simply because the 103 is quite a shallow-bodied cartridge (compared to something like a Stanton 500 which the arm was designed to work with) and there isn't sufficient VTA adjustment built into the arm to get it right. Even when the VTA adjuster is wound down to minimum the back of the arm will still be too high. This is one of the reasons why I got the Jelco, and what made me completely change my mat configuration, more of which will be mentioned in the review.

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That's right. I recall that based on the cart height, the arm height had to be set at 0, which meant any lowering of the back of the arm would be impossible. seems like even an easily adjustable VTA has its limitations too! I see now the use of the mats as VTA tools ...

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No problem. I know exactly how you feel as I felt the same way when I was waiting on my deck arriving from KAB. It's probably the best piece of hi-fi gear I've ever bought :)

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I'm treating it as a christmas present to myself, so as long as it gets in by then, I'm a happy camper. but with the festive season coming up, I'm just worried that kevin will have his hands full with many 'tables going around as gifts!

thanks again for all the advice. I must say this is a great forum, very cosy and quite unlike some of the others that I've visited. Here's a piccie of my humble setup ... everything's in place, just waiting for the 'table to arrive.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...p/IMG_0525.jpg

That's a lovely set up Bong. May I ask what speaker stands you're using?

Hi Kelvin,

Great pics and great set-up! :)

I'll get to the rest of your post later as I have to pop out now for a bit, but just to clear this up:

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hmm .. on browsing the soundhifi site, the jelco tonearm featured is neither S-shaped nor have a detachable headshell (from what I can see from the picture anyway) ....

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It's the SA-750D shown below, which as you will see is most certainly S-shaped with a detachable headshell ;)

http://www.soundhifi.com/jelco.html

Speak more later!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Filterlab

That's a lovely set up Bong. May I ask what speaker stands you're using?

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Thanks Rob! The speaker stands, as well as the hifi rack are both from Guizu or Nobility (Guizu means nobles or nobility in Chinese). You can take a look at their AV furniture here

kelvin.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Kelvin,

Great pics and great set-up! :)

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Thanks. It's a bedroom setup, so a bit of thought had to go into the WAF (wife acceptance factor) of the setup. Otherwise, that spot will remain an empty spot. :lol:

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It's the SA-750D shown below, which as you will see is most certainly S-shaped with a detachable headshell ;)

http://www.soundhifi.com/jelco.html

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My mistake. I saw the earliest picture on the 1200mods page that said 'The Jelco tonearm with xxx cart' and assumed that that was the 750D. I stand corrected and wiser.

kelvin.

Cheers Kelvin, it looks really lovely. My stands and racks are all matt black and sometimes I just think how nice wood stands look. How are they acoustically speaking? Any major or minor influence on the sound?

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Originally Posted by Filterlab

Cheers Kelvin, it looks really lovely. My stands and racks are all matt black and sometimes I just think how nice wood stands look. How are they acoustically speaking? Any major or minor influence on the sound?

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I agree about the wood stands. I was sold the moment I saw them, and after switching over to them, I can only say that they complement the equipment placed on them, both aesthetically and acoustically. I find that there's significant improvement to the sound, specifically to give a wider stage and more distinct separation. However, I was previously using a generic Ikea table for my setup so any change would have been an improvement. :lol:

Hehehehe, yes indeed. It never fails to amaze me how much difference proper stands make. I've yet to find speaker stands that acoustically improve on mine, saying that they are the dedicated stands for my speakers so chances are slimmer than average. :)

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Originally Posted by Filterlab

Hehehehe, yes indeed. It never fails to amaze me how much difference proper stands make. I've yet to find speaker stands that acoustically improve on mine, saying that they are the dedicated stands for my speakers so chances are slimmer than average. :)

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agreed. but the quest for good stands could be tough ... as it's a lot less obvious compared to hifi gear, as to what's snake oil and what's not... and it's tough to lug your speakers/gear around to audition stands. so once I find any that give an improvement, they're for keeps! ;)

Good move mate. I think the average audiophile has an inability to completely relax on any given system for any period of time; there's always that question in the back of the mind "what if...?" which rears its ugly head every time music is playing. However if one stops being an audiophile for a moment and simply enjoys the wonderfully high quality music then the question diminishes - it's hard I know, but it's worth it. :)

You're right about stands though, it is hard to audition them, not only due to the bulk but also the fiddling and altering that goes hand in hand with that type of 'component'. It took about three weeks of alteration until I got my speakers set up just right, well I thought they were right anyway until two heavy but rather attractive concrete blocks presented themselves to me. I popped them under my speaker stands (with a 12x12 slate sheet betwixt block and spikes) and they made a heck of a difference. It made me think how other materials would differ the presentation, but that of course takes me back to the start of this post. ;)

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Originally Posted by Filterlab

Good move mate. I think the average audiophile has an inability to completely relax on any given system for any period of time; there's always that question in the back of the mind "what if...?" which rears its ugly head every time music is playing. However if one stops being an audiophile for a moment and simply enjoys the wonderfully high quality music then the question diminishes - it's hard I know, but it's worth it. :)

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well said. even in asia, where i'm from, there are many audiophiles who spend way too much time trying to extract the perfect sound through their equipment - endless upgrades and tweaks. i often wonder how they manage to find time to listen to any music in the midst of their busy upgrading schedule. ;)

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You're right about stands though, it is hard to audition them, not only due to the bulk but also the fiddling and altering that goes hand in hand with that type of 'component'. It took about three weeks of alteration until I got my speakers set up just right, well I thought they were right anyway until two heavy but rather attractive concrete blocks presented themselves to me. I popped them under my speaker stands (with a 12x12 slate sheet betwixt block and spikes) and they made a heck of a difference. It made me think how other materials would differ the presentation, but that of course takes me back to the start of this post. ;)

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haha, true true. it makes for good tweaking (spikes? blu-tac? concrete/granite/mystical substance?), but it makes a really tough auditioning subject. good that you found what works for you .. not necessarily what works best, as that'll probably take another 2908172 hrs of your life to tweak. :lol:

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Originally Posted by bong

...that'll probably take another 2908172 hrs of your life to tweak. :lol:

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You know it mate! Although I don't mind too much as I'll have a big grin on my face whilst doing it. :)

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Originally Posted by Filterlab

You know it mate! Although I don't mind too much as I'll have a big grin on my face whilst doing it. :)

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i'm not that optimistic with my tweaking skills .. i'm lucky i don't break the cantilever sometimes while i'm trying to align the cart. but it does take quite a bit of verbal abuse from me though ... :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by Dave Cawley

Hi guys

This might be a subtle opportunity to plug my SL-1200 page here www.SL-1200-MK2.com I can give sound reasons for every modification and answer most questions with a smile!

I'll start a thread on it next week.

Regards

Dave

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really good mods by the look of it - i may well order a pair of the feet 1 in the next few weeks

The SL1200/SL1210 boom in the UK get's a mention in this months stereophile and Dave Cawley of Sound Hifi get's specifically named.

Me? What me???? I only seem to have January, is there a later one?

Thanks

Dave

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Originally Posted by stupinder

really good mods by the look of it - i may well order a pair of the feet 1 in the next few weeks

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I'd use four of them personally! ;) :lol:

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Originally Posted by Dave Cawley

Me? What me???? I only seem to have January, is there a later one?

Thanks

Dave

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Oops, I got carried away, only Sound Hifi gets mentioned

Oh well..... What page? And is it january?

Thanks

Dave (not that famous after all)

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Originally Posted by Dave Cawley

Oh well..... What page? And is it january?

Thanks

Dave (not that famous after all)

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Yes it's january, it's in Paul Messengers round up of a hifi show (Heathrow?)

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Originally Posted by user34

The SL1200/SL1210 boom in the UK get's a mention in this months stereophile and Dave Cawley of Sound Hifi get's specifically named.

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As I said, the Techy invasion has begun, it seems even in America... We will not stop until all 'elastic-banders' have been wiped out :eyebrows:

Marco.

I have achieved fame in other areas, and did desire it in Hi Fi, but never thought it would come from the SL-1200. Hi Fi World, now the big World!

Thanks guys

Dave

Yeppers, think you have made it into the wider world Dave.
I may even know someone who has just been pestering you for more info :)

By way of intro, I last year purchased an SL 1200 on the strength of many raves and eventually gave it an extensive audition of some several weeks, perhaps even 6, in my system.
I am a Denon cartridge fan and absolutely besotted with the DL-301 II I am using at present.
I also own and like very much the DL-103, it was my first MC and I purchased with it (as an inexpensive entry point) the Denon AU300LC SUT.
Being aware of Werners positive review of the SL 1200 on tnt, where he fitted the 103 to this deck and approved of it; that cartridge was the one I fitted to the Technics for the audition period.
My prior experience of this cartridge indicated max mass was in order and I used it with a Sumiko style headshell and as much additional mass as I could balance though not as much as I would have liked (with the Tecnoarm I use 4 gms).
Trialling of various mats and clamps gave me a "best" combination of SRM Tech silicone mat (trimmed to fit inside the lip) with a 3mm Achromat on top in conjunction with a turned weight of virtually the same dimensions as recommended by Rudolph Bruil.
I did not have an SDS mat to try, but did try heavy Technics, light Technics, Extreme Phono none-felt and Speedmat, Iron Audio acrylic & Funk Achromat 5mm plus plain felt and also the Michell clamp.
In general terms I would say that results from various mats, to me, accorded with their composition, the heavy rubber offering good grip and drive but sounding deadened, the acrylic sounding hard and bright etc.
I had previously found the Achromat to provide benefit on an acrylic platter and using it on top of the 2mm silicone provided similar benefit in improved definition and clarity without excessive brightness, the weight being (I feel) necessary to reduce slippage on the rather hard surface and improve the transmission of resonances from the playing surface to the mat.
During the period of auditioning the replacement for the SUT in the form of a GSP audio Elevator Exp active step-up arrived, the improvement was remarkable and where I had nearly been ready to return to my other turntable I continued using the Technics for another 3 weeks.
I then returned to my previous turntable and fitted the DL-103 to it for a direct (more or less) comparison.
My conclusions from that were twofold, the improvement in the DL103 with this active step-up (in my system) was remarkable, things I had attributed to limitations in the cartridge were shown to be in the transformer.
The other was that there were areas of the SL 1200 that required upgrade to bring its performance up to the standard of my other deck.
At least with this particular cartridge.
Interestingly, my attention was largely on the areas that have been most discussed in this thread (with the notable exception of the external power supply) - namely the arm wiring and the damping trough mod.
The possibility of obtaining better/heavier counterweights was not known to me and is one of the things I found of interest here.
Having left it alone for some time the tinkering bug seems to be biting again and all the positive stuff here - thank you all - will probably have me in penury for the rest of this year (unless I lash out on a DL-S1 instead :) )
I know none of this is news but hopefully it is some contribution to the content of this thread.
Have fun and enjoy the music.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Interesting thoughts there, Peter! Having heard a few different Garrards in suitable plinths recently I would concur with you observations.

Any chance of a more detailed review in a separate thread (Strokes of Genius section)? It would act as a good reference for members :)

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Marco,

I sold my 401/Bastin Plinth/Spacearm this weekend, but I'll be able to visit it when I feel like it, it's only a few klicks away. But for a short time the 401 and the SL1210 were in the system, almost, at the same time.

I didn't do any A/B comparisons because I had the two available together for a short time. I now know that the PSU that Martin Bastin had made for me was more of a hindrance than a help. It's voltage was too low to allow the 401 to stabilise (about 20 - 30 mins). The slatedeck bearing mod is a big leap in performance over the standard bearing.

In my system I think the spacearm was a better than the technics standard arm.

Taking all this into account, a KAB psu'd SL1210 with a standard arm is maybe not a match in a slugfest with a 401 but does have a more relaxed and open presentation. The Garrards brute force is certainly, even absolutely, addictive, and I regret not having run it without the PSU when it came back from service in 2007, but I can't help feeling it imposes its character more on the music than the Teccie. Richard (Gromit) may have been right to go with the arm mod first.

I just took delivery of an AT33PTG and I have a new arm on order, one that's reputed for it's low end performance, so it'll be interesting how the Technics story develops. I'm really impatient to get that new arm fitted, it's promised for the last week of January.

cheers

I've just read about and tried an interesting tweak that I found on Vinyl Engine. It's no use me providing a link here because VE will probably block or divert it, but its in the thread "Technics SL-1200 and SL-1210 modification" on the Technics forum.
Briefly, it involves simply removing the plastic covers from over the electronics and the motor coils. Reversible, and worth a try I think.

John

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Originally Posted by jonners

Briefly, it involves simply removing the plastic covers from over the electronics and the motor coils. Reversible, and worth a try I think

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I've just tried it - there's nothing much to worry about since the platter and mat will keep the dust away. I'm playing the deck now and *think* I can hear improved clarity, but I need to listen some more.

Greetings,

Technics SL1200/1210 owners might be interested to read about the selfsame deck fitted with an SME IV and using an off-board power supply in the August edition of Hi Fi World magazine.

Yep, Barry - it belongs to David Price. I've known about it for some time :)

Is the magazine out in the shops now then? If so, I'll have to get it.

Marco.

Oi, I got one like that, too :)