Thanks for coming over guys.
The TQ Black was made for the Rega RS3's...wow!
Big step up from my Mogami...
Like a component upgrade, seriously.
Will post tomorrow on todays schennigans
off to my kipper.
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Thanks for coming over guys.
The TQ Black was made for the Rega RS3's...wow!
Big step up from my Mogami...
Like a component upgrade, seriously.
Will post tomorrow on todays schennigans
off to my kipper.
Aye, there was more of a difference between the cables than all the dacs.
Definitely not in my experience! Although, some high-end DACs do have better on-board technology to deal with jitter et al, so these are potentially less sensitive to transport quality than cheaper DACs which lack this technology. I've found that mating cheaper DACs with quailty transports often elevates them to a similar level as the higher-end DACs.Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
Sorry for going a bit off-topic in what is the Bushmaster thread after all, but anybody who does believe that all transports sound the same should grab a Metrum Octave DAC which is a superb DAC but includes no filtering or jitter reduction technology. It is brutally revealing of its source. Compare a cheap DVD player and a decent transport via this DAC and the difference is plainly obvious. Not all digital transports are the same.
I'm a big fan of SPDIF reclockers to get the most out of any entry-level transport (DVD player, cheap CD player, SB Touch, Sonos etc). The audio-gd DI is a great bit of kit for the money, and the Empirical Audio Synchro Mesh lifts the bar yet again.
BTW, looking forward to hearing the Bushmaster once it makes its way to Australia! :)
Can we now please reserve this thread for reviews/listening experiences of the Beresford Bushmaster?
All other Bushmaster related discussion should go here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...14017&page=104
Hookay, here are my thoughts on yesterday. This will probably ruffle a few feathers, so can I say at the outset that we all agreed on our opinions about what we heard. Plus the fact I will always give an honest opinion and speak as I find regardless.
Firstly, thanks again to Gary for hosting us, the pizza and beer were first class!
I took across the valve dac, my PP EL84 amps, my WD Pre 3, TQ Black cables and some pairs of AG Audio silver foil i/c's.
Gary had on dem the new Rega dac and amp (which were very nice BTW, commercial kit at this price level has certainly moved on in the last few years IMHO) and all listening was done with his self built music file server using JRiver and SSD etc. etc. (very nice indeed). The dacs we listened to were- the Rega dac, the Bushmaster, Gary's fully tricked out Caiman and finally my AK4396 valve dac built by Nick Gorham.
One of the main reasons I went across was to try the valve dac on Gary's server. I have recently fitted some custom O'Netics output transformers to the dac that Nick had specced with Bud Purvine specially for this purpose. O'Netics are one of the top audio transformer makers on the planet, and I had high hopes for these trannies. These hopes were mostly realised but there was occasionally something not quite right about the sound at home that was very difficult to put my finger on, so I wanted to try the dac with something other than the Touch in order to pinpoint the problem (turned out not to be the trannies at all, but that's another story)
I'm not going to write reams about how each dac sounded, cos I can't be bothered and I'm a crap typist, but I'll go though what we did.
We used the Rega amp for all comparisons, running Gary's RS 3's. We started with the Rega dac. We liked the sound this gave, nice and with little if any grain. A smooth listen, easy on the ear but still good detail. Soundstaging was good too.
From this we moved on to the Bushmaster. We found this a touch brighter and/or more detailed in the mid, but inferior to the Rega at the frequency extremes. The soundstage was noticeably smaller than the Rega.
We then moved on to the fully tricked out Caiman. This had a smidge less clarity in the mid compared to the BM, but we found it was superior at the top and bottom. Better soundstaging too. A bit of a surprise to me and not what I was expecting frankly!
If memory serves we then went back to the Rega and swapped in the TQ Blacks in place of Gary's Mogami (?) cables. This was an absolute revelation in Gary's system. I can honestly say I have never heard a cable make such a difference in a hi fi system before, it was a vast improvement, making as much difference as changing the speakers would have. Gary at this point was cursing me cos he's now got to save up for a pair of Blacks!
We then swapped Gary's Mike Grant 2000 i/c for my silver foil jobbie, which again was an easily noticeable improvement, with gains in clarity and better tighter bass. A good result given the relative costs of the cable.
Finally we moved on to the valve dac. I was keen to hear if the same problems were reproduced that I was getting with the Touch at home. Thankfully this was not the case, so it would appear that the dac has now got to a level that is showing the limitations of the Touch, or that it is showing up some other deficiency in my system. In any case, this was the preferred dac of the day, easily outstripping all the others in the SQ stakes. Much bigger soundstage, better clarity but with no edginess, and stonking bass that frankly put the other dacs to shame. Given Nick's design skills, and the relative costs of the dacs, not an unexpected result really.
We then plumbed in the EL84 monoblocks and my Pre 3, giving Gary and Brian their first listen to some valve kit. I noted the fact that this was now a full valve system playing file audio- valve dac, preamp and power amps. This was again a big step up in SQ, much bigger soundstage and better everything really. Nice as the Rega amp was, it was totally outclassed here. On having a listen to Tubular Bells, Brian commented that he had been listening to this album since it came out when he was 16 and he was now hearing things he'd never heard before. I think he was quite taken with what he was hearing, and several comments were made about how good things were sounding. An enjoyable day all round I think.
So, we all agreed, the dacs in order of SQ were-
1. AK4396 valve dac.
2. Rega
3. Caiman
4. Bushmaster
Please don't think we are dissing the Bushmaster, we are not. At it's price it remains excellent value and great sound and in isolation it sounds very good.
So there you have it. If my memory is faulty at all (quite likely) I'm sure Gary or Brian will correct any details.
Thanks again to Gary for hosting, and Brian it was good to meet you. :)
Interesting findings, Ali, as my Bushmaster on battery easily outperforms my fully tricked out Caiman/Gator on Paul Hynes PSUs. Especially noticeable for me are the frequency extremes!
Aye, I guess just goes to show how system dependant things are.
Gosh. That is a surprise, Ali.
As with Martin, my BM easily beats my Caiman (admittedly a standard one).
The BM also saw off a multi-£k well-reviewed DAC/pre unit I plumbed in yesterday.
I remain in awe of what the Bushmaster can do. Very difficult for me to reconcile your group bake-off outcome with the stunning sounds I am now getting from my system with the BM. :scratch: The best sound quality I have heard chez-Jerry, especially the soundstaging, and not by a small amount.
I agree with your take on the Tellurium Black, though!
Thanks for this review Ali, as a bit of Rega fancier myself I found it v interesting.
Think my all Rega system is going to become a reality very soon.
Aye, though this is the same dac that is having problems playing from a laptop, so perhaps there is a problem with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by jandl100
As for the Black, yes it's quite something. As a user of valves I've not heard cables make much if any difference in the past, but I guess that's not the case with SS!
Spot on write up Ali, agree 100%
Agree with Ali's order of the Dacs.
Not trying to ruffle any feathers but that's how it was fella's.
I'd add though that we put the Bushmaster and Rega back in circuit with the valve amps just to see how it went.
The same relative result, the Rega being better...but Ali's valve amps upped the stakes sound wise for both Dacs.
Just goes to show the old chestnut about using different kit can change the sound.
That's the benefit of getting together and hearing stuff with other kit - highly recommended!
One thing I personally was chuffed about was the RS3 speakers just responded to every kit change sounding better and better.
With the TQ Black...bloody hell!
Seriously we all just looked at each other...wtf!?
Thanks to Ali and Brian for bringing over their kit, its always good to know what direction to head in system wise and for me it HAS to be the Rega kit with the TQ Black.
But in the spirit of throwing in some controversy in this thread.. :)
Honestly I thought the Rega dac (whilst not as good overall) was not a million miles away from the valve Dac. Sorry Ali!
Ali's was was better, yes, but both dacs gave just as enjoyable as listen to my ears.
I felt that some areas were a wee bit preferable, specifically; with the Rega the top end was a wee bit more precise and there wasn't that slight touch of "bloom" to the bass.
The valve dac WAS better though and no doubt with Ali's open baffle speakers it would sound amazing.
Its all about kit synergy. I think Rega's on to something here....
The main thing I took from the day is that you have to hear kit for yourself to really make a valid judgement. We all hear differently and changing one piece of kit (even a cable!) can alter the sound.
Good point Ali about the laptop, we never got to the bottom of that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Oddly though..
Brians laptop played 24/96 Flacs fine through his Bushmaster, it was only when we played that 16/44 tracks that it broke up.
Also, the Bushmaster played files (16/44 and 24/96) without a problem from my music server and also a mates SB Touch.
So I'm not convinced the Bushmaster itself was at fault to be honest. Stans QC is usually excellent in my experience.
*EDIT*
Have to say the BM sounded good playing music from my server, and its a very good dac for the money as other have attested to.
System tastes, room, other kit all comes into play.
May I suggest that some might find value in the price of each dac being shown.
Perhaps someone could fill in the prices?
1. AK4396 valve dac.
2. Rega
3. Caiman
4. Bushmaster
So these problems might be masked with other DACs at the expense of sound quality?Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
I guess that's all part of the problem of big name products, the whole review cycle blah blah blah that sound quality is actually put further back down the list of priorities so that good reviews and uncomplicated, smooth running, papering over cracks of other people's under-par transport products etc take precident.
Bit like Clinton-esque election politics - say whatever it takes to get in power and worry about the policies later because if you don't get elected your policies won't be enacted. Worry about ultimate sound quality later but make sure the product sells well.
Thankfully these days people like you Stan can use more modern word of mouth, online social networking if you like to bypass all that and have your product judged by sound quality alone (and value for money).
Aye it was just a thought mate, as what we heard is not what many are saying.
No need to be sorry mate, I agree the Rega was very good. I just prefer the way valves present things. They were close, but I did prefer the valve dac. Also, it's a work in progress so there is more to come.
Which Rega amp was it Gaz? The Brio?
I made that point in my post- the order happens to coincide with cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by webby
1. Not entirely sure, probably around £700 so far, it's a work in progress.
2. About £500 I think.
3. Not sure how much all the mods have cost, but got to be at least £300 I'd have thought.
4. About £200 isn't it?
You'll probably find that all of these sources use very similar chip-manufacturer datasheet implementations of circuits to handle digital audio.Quote:
Originally Posted by nightyy
Afterall, "bits is bits" and once you have THAT mindset you will not be spending any r & d money to see if things can be improved or even identifying potential problems in the first place, so the basic circuit is copied off the data sheet and stuck into every product. Therefore I would expect most consumer orientated digital sources to sound the same..
Even D/A sections are copied out in the same way. Lots of high-end CD players of yore , like TDA1541A ones for example just use the stated Philips circuits around, nothing changed, nothing really tweeked, just copied without much thought. As a caviat, I get this info solely from Lampizators site where he gives many examples using the official circuit layout diagrams.
It's interesting that you found the performance go up, along with the cost, but I wonder how much more you get for the increased outlay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
Gaz reckoned the Rega was very close to the valve dac. How close was the Caiman to the Rega?
Thanks for that - kinda puts everything in perspective, price-wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
It would be interesting to repeat the session with a selection of similarly priced units.
Cheers,
Big step up to the Rega imo.
More musical, sounded more "real", bigger soundstage.
more of everything I guess.
Originally Posted by StanleyB View Post
Guys I would like to point out that any drop out between source and DAC won't be masked by the Bushmaster. It does not use a mute circuit to hide drop outs and blips in the music, which is different to many other DACs.
That could account for the playback problems with the laptop certainly.
It was a very old laptop!
dp
The Brio-R Lee.Quote:
Originally Posted by webby
I'd say the Rega was easily better than the Caiman, a more "grown up" sound if you like. None of the dacs were poor however.Quote:
Originally Posted by webby
Gary will be able to give a more detailed answer, he's heard a lot more of both dacs.
Was the ranking in order of how much beer was consumed! :lol: :D :D
whit you sch'trying to shay like (hic)
na..everyone was driving lol
Quote:Quote:
Originally Posted by jandl100
“Our brains are like leaky sieves when it comes to auditory details. We can’t possibly remember the massive amount of data contained in even one song (roughly equivalent to one million words!). So, here again, our brains out of necessity heavily filter what we remember. […] The science shows our audio memory starts to degrade after just 0.2 seconds. So if switching from Gear A to Gear B requires more than a fraction of a second you’re losing more information. The longer the gap, the more you forget and the more bias distorts what you do remember.”
Source: Northwest audio & video guy: What we hear.
Great article Werner, very interesting.
though I forgot 97% of it after reading it :)
I'm now running my Bushmaster on battery power and like MartinT have noticed a worthwhile step up in SQ, compared to the supplied power supply.
The bass has improved in depth and power certainly and the top end seems even smoother.
Compared to my old Dacmagic (azur) the whole presentation is more solid, bassy and analogue sounding. There's never, ever a hint of coarseness.
My system is in the centre of our open plan house, so I have to moderate the use/volume depending upon who's at home. Pre-Bushmaster, my wife would usually ask me to turn it down a bit when she came in. Now, with the Bushmaster, that's stopped and I've noticed her humming along on several occasions. She's not mentioned anything, but I think that it's the lack of digital harshness that's made the difference.
Really enjoying my Bushmaster,
Just one question: You tested the Bushmaster against the RegaDAC - but I did not see which settings you used.
Upsampling? Filters?
I've heard the RegaDAC - one thing that really hurts my eyes is that they use no external PSU. In my opinion the Bushmaster is at the same level of details. - whereas the flavour of the sound is a bit different in my opinion.
To the people with "dropouts" - have you tried turning of your WiFi connection? (On most motherboards the soundcard is using the same "lane" as the WiFi.)
Tobi, habe alles ausgeschaltet, sogar spotlight. Es gibt keine Veränderung!
Tobi, I disabled everything, even spotlight. The problem still remains!
Theres no upsampling with the Rega Dac Tobi, think it was Filter 5 on the Rega but I didn't check.
I've not tried out the different filters on the Rega, maybe others would sound better, I dont know.
From Jriver the music was fed to each Dac as it was - no upsampling - using WinAspi - Event Style, Source bitdepth with memory play enabled.
None of the settings was changed so each dac was fed by the same track, same settings.
Hey, I got mighty intrigued by your guys's ranking of the Caiman. To my ears, Gatorized Caiman sounds pronouncedly leaner, dryer, and flatter than the Bushmaster. Perhaps you guys prefer lean, dry and flat sound, but even so, wouldn't you agree that the Bushmaster has a much better defined bass? Plus, my Caiman sounds very two dimensional next to the Bushmaster (at least in my system).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
I have to say that this goes completely contrary to my findings too.
My Caiman is fully tricked up, caps, regulators, linear supply and either gaitor board or passive mod. The Bushmaster blows it out of the water. Much tighter and lower bass, more defined imagining, and crystal highs.
Very strange.
Val
Is that with or without the beers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Val33
Nope, that's how I would describe the BM. I don't prefer that kind of sound, I like valves!Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccarpetride
We were all open minded and gave our honest opinion.
People hear differently, different systems, different tastes etc.
Not to damn it with faint praise, but the BM is a very good dac for the money, its a crackin buy.
It was only in direct comparison to the others that (to us three) the differences came out.
Remember the other Dacs are more expensive, Ali's Dac being many hundreds of pounds more!!
We were all in agreement about the order of the Dacs.
I personally was surprised how good my Caiman sounded in comparison.
I have spent a lot on it with all the mods, also we were using it with a Mark Grant Linear PSU.
+1 that's how the BM sounded to me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
I felt the bass and top end was better on the Caiman.
Not night and day better but put together it made for an easier listen than the BM.
...and valves sound excellent - that amp of yours Ali....:eek:
Aye, those RS3's seemed to like the glass bottles!
It amazes me that we ever agree on anything ,we all listen in different rooms to different gear,with different wifes and different carpets.Must do us all good to hear someone elses kit from time to time.If i didn't live in englandshire i would love to hear Ali's gear.
My carpet's better than your carpet....
Excuse me, I'm not wearing a rug.:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
I wouldn't use price as a guide to why someone prefers something. But I can see why it could subconsciously be taken into consideration.Quote:
Not to damn it with faint praise, but the BM is a very good dac for the money, its a crackin buy.
It was only in direct comparison to the others that (to us three) the differences came out.
Remember the other Dacs are more expensive, Ali's Dac being many hundreds of pounds more!!
The BM is different, but not necessarily better suited for everyone. As Anthony D and others have already pointed out before, manufacturers can flavour their DAC to taste through the use of caps, opamps, etc after the DAC output. Or, as in the case of the Rega etc., through additional use of digital filters. The BM on the other hand offers a completely unmodified signal to the amp or preamp that it is connected to. It has a passive output after all. The BM wasn't designed to be the best sounding DAC. It was designed to sound more neutral and accurate with a more accurate frequency response and signal separation. These might not be attributes that are necessarily to the taste of everyone, but at least there is now the possibility to buy a DAC with that kind of performance.
Hi Stan,Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
We didn't take cost into account when we were listening.
I mentioned cost just to try to put things into perspective for folk reading. :)
With the Rega I think the filters were present on the Dac chip already, they just put a button on the front to change them if desired.
Can highly recommend getting out and about and hearing other kit, it'll open your eyes (and unfortunately your wallet!)
I find the lean comments about the BM at odds with my listening, I had to double check after Ali's report and put the Caimen and my own AK DAC back into the system. The AK is not as good as the Caimen and the Caimen in turn is not as competent as the BM so I'm puzzled.
I can only think theres system synergy at play, I feed all line level inputs into an active Valve buffer stage which adds voltage and current drive, I'm wondering if the input into whatever the Pre was at the meet needs current drive to work at its best.
I consider that a very condescending statement Gaz. I do listen to other kits, but at the same time I let others listen to products that I am working on and get an added perspective on the looks, feel, and the way it sounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Your suggestion implies otherwise, which is not what I expected from you. It demonstrates a preconceived idea on your part which I hope is only limited to this instance and not to people in general who do not see things in the same light. I would be worried if this is a particular character trait that you exhibit in general.
I have offered my comments with regard to the difference between my design and other ones available on the market. I don't generally offer my opinion on reviews and how i feel about the conclusions drawn up afterwards. Nor do I defend the implementation of my design against the way other manufacturers have implemented theirs. It's for the buying public to decide what kind of listening experience they are after. All I can do is to highlight how my design is put together and what solutions customers can expect to find when following my route. I am not trying to copy the signature from anyone, or trying to artificially create a signature in the first place. The BM is not about creating a signature, but about offering an unadulterated reproduction of the analogue output from the D to A processor used in the design.
Keeping the output stage of a dac simple is a good idea imo, the end user can add his/her own flavourings down stream if they think its required .Lots of choices like valve buffers etc can have quite a big influence on the end result.
Aye, that crossed my mind too Neal. There was no pre used for the comparisons, just straight into the Rega amp.Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG