Thanks Dave . Are you selling tickets BTW .:lol:
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Thanks Dave . Are you selling tickets BTW .:lol:
I might offer tickets if I see a bit more kit that I can't afford ;) but I'd feel a bit like a snake oil salesman selling something that ain't going to happen, no chance, you mark my words.Quote:
Originally Posted by brian2957
I'm happy to revisit this possibility after the event, if there's enough interest :lol: .
Cheers,
Dave.
Good , my video camera is charging as we speak :eyebrows: you're probably correct though in your assumptions . This i/c looks like a real prospect to me and I await Marcos' findings with baited breath. I'll just go and put the video camera back into its' box mate and keep an eye on Ticketmaster .
Not sure whether you'll need a tele-photo or a macro lens bolting on it though but you've got time to decide and save up for it :lol: .Quote:
Originally Posted by brian2957
Dave.
I use a magnifying glass myself mate .:eyebrows:
It's a bit summery for a fire to burn things in and the airing cupboard just doesn't get hot enough for spontaneous combustion. Whether Martin's ears have got used to any possible differences is another matter entirely though :)Quote:
Originally Posted by brian2957
Now Dave, we've been here before. Cable burn-in is pretty widely acknowledged around here. Have you really not heard the effect?
Yeh Dave do tell...
I have just received some 0.5m and 1m 223.5 Connect Litz stereo interconnects, from Yannis, fitted with silver Eichmanns (aluminium body versions), which I'm trying as a possible replacement for my MG G2000HDs, currently in the position between my SUT and phono stage; the idea being having a complete loom of cables from Yannis, from my tonearm to phono stage, in the quest for optimum sonic synergy.
First impressions are quite superb, with the 223.5s having the beautifully wide-open infectious musicality and filigree detailing of the awesome 423.5 Phono Litz tonearm cable, currently in use on my Ortofon RS-212D tonearm, on the Techy. This cable deftly unlocks the densest of mixes and also lays bare the dynamics and realism of the finest recordings, thus making for a sonically beguiling cable partnership that doesn't break the bank.
I suspect that these babies could be keepers! Further thoughts in due course, once the cables have fully burnt in :cool:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9...interconne.jpg
More details for the 223.5 Connect Litz cable can be found here: http://www.back-promo.co.uk/html/223_5connect-litz.html
Marco.
"First impressions are quite superb, with the 223.5s having the beautifully wide-open infectious musicality and filigree detailing of the awesome 423.5 Phono Litz tonearm cable, currently in use on my Ortofon RS-212D tonearm, on the Techy. This cable deftly unlocks the densest of mixes and also lays bare the dynamics and realism of the finest recordings, thus making for a sonically beguiling cable partnership that doesn't break the bank."
and you were not getting all that with the MG cable then? :)
aluminium bodied eichmanns, oh dear polymer bodied one's are much better :)
only messin wit ya chief :ner:
Not quite to the same degree, as Mark's aren't solid-silver cables, and so have a different, but equally valid, style of sonic presentation. The 223.5s do the 'solid-silver cable thing' superbly well, but ensure that the end result isn't too 'hi-fi' sounding. They're a really lovely, natural sounding (and very musical), listen!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
However, I do still prefer the G2000HDs between my preamp and power amp, and between my DAC and preamp. It's simply a synergy thing :)
The aluminium bodied Eichmanns provide better shielding from interference, in my experience, than the polymer versions, when used in analogue (turntable) applications. I use the polymer-bodied ones elsewhere in my system, to excellent effect.
Marco.
Yannis is also sending me some of his 222-Connect Litz, to try, which is very similar in construction to the 223.5-Connect-Litz.
The difference is that the former uses larger, 22AWG conductors, and the assembly contains two hollow teflon air-tubes, twisted along with the Litz conductors (in order to add space with air dielectic and keep the capacitance low).
Details here: http://www.back-promo.co.uk/html/222connect-litz.html
It'll be interesting finding out if those can raise the bar even further.....! :)
Marco.
I'm really not convinced they do provide better shielding Marco (and I have the aluminium bodies on my Eichmann plugs). Aluminium isn't great at shielding, they cover a very tiny part of the cable and they aren't connected to ground; they do look nice though :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I suppose there's a possibility of them making things worse depending on the type of cable grounding scheme employed...
Is there? I don't think there is much possibility of them making any real difference one way or the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
Any evidence to back up these claims ?Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
:hmm:
Hi Mark,
Indeed (and you may be right), but I guess that ANY metal will provide better shielding than plastic, or in this case polymer, which I suppose is why Eichmann make two different types of bodies for their plugs, for use in different applications, with both still being non-magnetic :)Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
Marco.
Maybe not but if the configuration is using RCA connection for a 'balanced' input and the screen is taken to preamplifier earth via a flying lead then the body of the RCA plug could be connected to the negative wire of the cart. It could pick up hum or RFI if the field is strong enough. It may not be likely but it would be better practice to ensure the body is not conductive.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
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Posted using Tapatalk :)
Perhaps, but in the case of the Eichmann the return 'grip' element is plastic (other than an embedded metal 'finger') and therefore the cover (metal or plastic) does not contact any conducting elements.
Well Andrew, I'm not sure what sort of 'evidence' you expect; you are happy to believe that connectors and cables make a difference (I'm not saying I disagree with this), but there is no hard (scientific) evidence that they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
I have tried a number of RCA connectors with metal bodies and the plastic bodied Eichmann's (also some with no body) and none of them had any impact on shielding that I could discern. However, the construction of the cable used clearly did.
Perhaps, though inside the plug there is less than 10mm of cable unshielded (assuming the cable is shielded in the first place). Eichmann don't actually make any claims regarding shielding for the aluminium bodies. I've not come across any RCA plugs that have magnetic (ferrous) bodies; even cheap ones are made from aluminium alloy, plastic or brass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Its very hard to solder the ground / return wire so its clear when the metal body is screwed on and hard to put heatshrink round it as well, very fiddly indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
Ok in that case I would agree but also they would not offer any additional screening unless wired directly to earthQuote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
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Posted using Tapatalk :)
Yes, I quite agree - hence my comment to that effect in reply to Marco's post earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
Is there anybody out there who can hear the difference between a metal bodied or a polymer bodied connector of the same brand on the same cable, doubt it personally?
Why do you think that Eichmann go to the bother of making two different types of bodies for their plugs?
Given the design principles and outlook of this particular manufacturer, I seriously doubt that it was done simply to make one example look 'prettier' than the other... ;)
Marco.
Marco, unless it's connected to ground it's as bout as useful as a chocolate fire guard.
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Posted using Tapatalk :)
Sure, Neal, but what I'm getting at is the superior ability of one shell type to shield against interference from RFI. Nothing else.
In that respect, it's simply a matter of comparing the effectiveness of both shell materials, in isolation: plastic vs. aluminium. The latter, by simply being metal, should be more effective.
Marco.
RANT ON - DUCK FOR COVER
This discussion could go on for ever. No claim should be made unless it can be backed with unbiased, independent, statistically significant data to prove the claim. In fact I think we should make it a law on this forum. This would sure cut out some bullshit that seems to continually crop up month in and month out. Sure we wouldn't have anything to talk about but it may push people into actually trying to prove some of the shit that they type on this fourm. It really pisses my off when people (no i'm not having a go at anyone on the forum, just the community in general) make claims and expect others to follow like sheep. :steam:
RANT OFF - FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW
Oh jeez...
For a shield to be effective it has to be grounded Marco. Nothing needs to be proved it's simple and the bullshit well understood, has been for near on 200 years. FFS.
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Posted using Tapatalk :)
My appologies the BS remark is aimed at the above 'rant'
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Posted using Tapatalk :)
As i stated in the post, the rant is vented at the community in general and not anyone specifically. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
PS you might want to look up Carl August Steinheil , and the theory behind your statment has not been around 200 years, more like 175, see that wasn't difficult. A statement on a hi-fi forum which could be proved, whats so difficult!
Neal, yes I know, but that's not what I'm talking about. You obviously don't get what I mean (in post #526), so we'll leave it there, otherwise we'll just be going round in circles.Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG
Marco.
I did say 'near'....You're good at splitting hairs, I was referring to Faraday, I make it 176 years... See I can do it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
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Posted using Tapatalk :)
Marco, yes I understood your post, alluminium would be better *if* it was grounded...as it is not it makes no difference other than looking and probably feeling better.
No more comment from me.
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Posted using Tapatalk :)
Neal,
Why are ferrite rings (designed to reduce RFI), for example, not made of plastic? Are they grounded to anything, when simply slipped over a cable, in order to be effective?
Think about this in relation to where I'm coming from, regarding the RFI shielding properties of plastic vs. metal on the shells of Eichmann plugs.
Marco.
Ferrite is ferromagnetic, aluminium isn't... Different kettle of fish entirely ;)
While you may notice that cores of ferrite are used in loudspeaker crossovers to generate a high inductance with a small winding, you'll find that aluminium is used to bolt ferrite transformers together in SMPS without affecting the self inductance of the transformer itself.
ok mate, point taken, your comment raised a chuckle in my listening room. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by NRG
Sure, Mark. I still say that an aluminum shell will offer greater resistance to RFI/EMI than a plastic shell, even if the former isn't grounded.
I also don't think that Eichmann would go to the bother of manufacturing two separate shells for their plugs, simply to make one look prettier. They're just not that type of company.
Anyway, I've made my point now, so will leave it at that :)
Marco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Why not extend the whole shell over the RCA plug, and better still make it from a non-resonant, non magnetic, RFI/EMI reducing material. This would surely offer the best cover possible??
I'd agree with that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
A Faraday cage will work whether it happens to be earthed/grounded or not...
Excellent, and exactly. Let's hope that Neal's paying attention... I sometimes wonder if I'm writing in a different language ;)
Andrew,
Why not indeed? Tell Eichmann!Quote:
Why not extend the whole shell over the RCA plug, and better still make it from a non-resonant, non magnetic, RFI/EMI reducing material. This would surely offer the best cover possible??
Marco.
Please, please don't patronize me. Seriously. :doh: The plug body is open at both ends. :eyebrows:
Yeah perhaps, I'm only making conversation really, arguing for the sake of it. At worst, I don't think the aluminium shells do any harm and they do look nice - don't cost much either (I use them myself); they may provide a modicum of additional shielding too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
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Andrew, I'm sorry if you found my posts abrasive, I do tend to have rather a direct written style (though not rude I hope). For my part, I don't expect anyone to take what I write as gospel and am happy for my views to be ignored.
I would think that Eichmann's choice of plastic materials is intentional. They certainly seem to favour minimal use of metal across their line of products.
No worries, I dont tend to take offence at what people post. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
This has been discussed before I think:scratch: I think Eichmann use plastic to minimise vibration getting into the RCA itself. I could of course be completely wrong. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomanze
I've not read any claims by Eichmann regarding vibration (and, in truth, the weight difference between the aluminium and plastic shells is very small). Most of the design rational expressed by Eichmann seems to revolve around the concepts of electron flow, eddy-currents, defined conductor paths, conductor purity and impedance matching.
Jolly good, it's just that I got rather a contra impression from your earlier 'rant'...Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
Sounds pretty spot-on to me... shades of Tom Evans, NVA, Trichord & other 'plastic' manufacturers.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
I didn't want to post this, as I can't find the source again, but I do recall reading that Eichmann produced the aluminium shells simply because they had a number of complaints that the plastic ones were too flimsy. Personally, I don't think they are (unless you are one of the sort that cycles equipment more frequently than underwear), but Eichmann still needs to run a business, so they produced the shell, and charge more for it. Given what they publish about the technical merits of the plastic plug, I would think they wouldn't hesitate to describe how the alu one is superior in some technical (i.e. shielding) way, particularly as they charge more. I doubt they'd leave it to mystery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomanze
I asked Yannis what his views were on the subject, and this is what he had to say:
Interesting points about reflecting and absorbing with plug materials in relation to shielding against RFI/EMI, and in that respect, the role of anodising.Quote:
I read through the comments regarding the shells of the Eichmann bullet plugs and I understand that quite a few of those who contributed have not taken into account (or were aware) of the following facts:
Shielding against EMI/RFI works in three ways: by reflecting, by adsorbing and by conducting to the ground. The 3rd way is typically the one that carries the most weight in most situations but the other two should not be underestimated.
The aluminium shells by Eichmann are anodized. This is very important since anodizing is an oxidation process that changes some of the characteristics of aluminium (it is not simply a coating). Anodised aluminium IS NOT conductive (so it cannot be connected to the ground and act in the same way the cable shield does).
If the aluminium shell was not anodised it would have both reflecting and absorbing abilities and would act as a shield to a lesser degree even if not connected to the ground.
Other than unsupported claims by cables sellers who use these black anodized shells, I have never come across a valid point on how they can shield the connectors. On the other hand I don't think that anodised aluminium is transparent to the magnetic fields the same way the plastic body is; and if this is the case it does have a role as a shield.
I am not an expert on anodizing but as far as I am aware the process takes place on the surface of the metal (meaning that its core may preserve some of its initial characteristics and have a reflecting or absorbing ability that offers partial protection from some fields).
In any case, I'm 100% happy that the aluminium shells, from Eichmann, perform more optimally than the polymer variety, when used in applications where a little extra shielding is beneficial.
For me, basically, it's this:
Use the polymer-bodied plugs in high-level signal applications (such as between digital sources and amps, or preamps and power amps), and the anodised aluminium plugs in (more 'delicate') low-level signal applications, such as on tonearm cables, and anywhere else where the handling of low-level analogue signals is involved (and the necessity for a little extra shielding), which is exactly what I've done :)
Marco.
If I hadn't (rather neatly) applied heat-shrink to the join between my aluminium Eichmann plug covers and the cable, I would be tempted to see if I could hear any difference between them screwed on and removed.
I have specified anodised finishes before (and suffered many anodising trials and tribulations too). As stated above, it is a chemical process that alters the actual surface of the aluminium and renders it non-conductive. However, the process does not permeate very deeply and the majority of the metal remains as normal.
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You know, if one really wanted the connector to be shielded, a copper tube that is electrically connected to the cable shield, or by flying lead to the pre-amp earth, would be very much more effective. I seem to recal reading about someone trying precisely this - can't remember where now - I seem to remember they were keen on the results though.
Looking at the WBT connectors, they have moved away from using metal in their plugs and the majority of the internal structure is now plastic on their premium designs.