Jimbos Audio ramblings

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Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony

I have a theory James.

The way we hear music is dependant on three things: The quality of the audio equipment at one end, the space between the equipment and our ears, and the part of our brain that processes the sounds that reach our ears. Perhaps the processor in your brain is of "dolby atmos" quality, as opposed to mine which is probably 70s Amstrad quality. The importance of the part this processor plays cannot be understated, it affects the way we perceive and enjoy music more than any other part of the audio chain.

And so you're able to pick up on the tiny nuances of sound, which can be affected by altering the timing of direct and reflected sounds as they reach your ears, enabling you to perceive differing 'acoustics'.

This has nothing to do with how good our hearing is, but rather to do with how our brains interpret what reaches them. And so a visitor may not hear what you hear. Just means you're more sensitive to those changes.

How's that for audio rambling? Reading it back I think perhaps much of what I said is cack, but it took so long to type with two fingers I'm going to post it anyway :)

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No Steve, every opinion is a valid one as you have identified we all reconstruct sound in our brains differently and therefore you are absolutely correct. I am sure if someone else where to listen to my system they would have a completely different experience to me and there is the truth. All we hear and all the gear we use is specific to ourselves and what we enjoy so there are never any right or wrongs just individual choice based on individual listening preferences. Hence that's why we all have different gear and like different music. Ok sometimes paths will cross and we end up with some stuff the same but I bet no two audiofools have exactly the same system.


But there again no two audio fools will ever have exactly the same room with the same furnishings and the same system. The chances are very remote!


I like to just ramble on on my experiences and hope they may get some folk to either try something with their room /system they may have not done before or just contemplate what is happening and put some thought process to how and what we hear based on the equipment we listen to and the room /set up we have.

Personally my main objective is just to try and get my thoughts down in some sort of coherent order before they vanish and I become a jibbering old fool....but maybe that is what I am already?:)

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

No Steve, every opinion is a valid one as you have identified we all reconstruct sound in our brains differently and therefore you are absolutely correct. I am sure if someone else where to listen to my system they would have a completely different experience to me and there is the truth. All we hear and all the gear we use is specific to ourselves and what we enjoy so there are never any right or wrongs just individual choice based on individual listening preferences. Hence that's why we all have different gear and like different music. Ok sometimes paths will cross and we end up with some stuff the same but I bet no two audiofools have exactly the same system.


But there again no two audio fools will ever have exactly the same room with the same furnishings and the same system. The chances are very remote!


I like to just ramble on on my experiences and hope they may get some folk to either try something with their room /system they may have not done before or just contemplate what is happening and put some thought process to how and what we hear based on the equipment we listen to and the room /set up we have.

Personally my main objective is just to try and get my thoughts down in some sort of coherent order before they vanish and I become a jibbering old fool....but maybe that is what I am already?:)

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Good idea to document all the changes to your system/room and how they did or didn't improve things, so that you may refer to it if you need to "go back" with some aspect.

Especially if your memory is as poor as mine - I've forgotten more than I'll ever know :)

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Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony

I have a theory James.

The way we hear music is dependant on three things: The quality of the audio equipment at one end, the space between the equipment and our ears, and the part of our brain that processes the sounds that reach our ears. Perhaps the processor in your brain is of "dolby atmos" quality, as opposed to mine which is probably 70s Amstrad quality. The importance of the part this processor plays cannot be understated, it affects the way we perceive and enjoy music more than any other part of the audio chain.

And so you're able to pick up on the tiny nuances of sound, which can be affected by altering the timing of direct and reflected sounds as they reach your ears, enabling you to perceive differing 'acoustics'.

This has nothing to do with how good our hearing is, but rather to do with how our brains interpret what reaches them. And so a visitor may not hear what you hear. Just means you're more sensitive to those changes.

How's that for audio rambling? Reading it back I think perhaps much of what I said is cack, but it took so long to type with two fingers I'm going to post it anyway :)

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A very valid point Steve, we are after all different but very similar at the same time.

Our brains as you say are all wired differently and probably experience music differently based on a vast number number of criteria. However in my musical experience when I used to play(try) guitar in several amateur bands, playing pop/rock, rock and jazz I did discover several interesting things. Firstly certain aspects of music can be learnt and improvement can result in a better appreciation or felling of what you are listening to, one very important aspect is tempo. My ability to keep time and recognise signature times (4/4, 3/4, 5/4. 6/8 etc) initially was appalling but with training and playing music with others this became easier and more natural. Of course one critical aspect is tuning or perception of it, I believe it has been said that one man's middle C is not another, I personally believe that is plain rubbish, middle C is 278.4375 Hz (if the instrument is correctly tuned. Once again I thought I had a good ear when it came to recognising when an instrument was in or out of tune, well the answer was yes and no, originally I could hear when my guitar was in tune but if another in the bad was out of tune to mine who was right and who was wrong. this can cause all sorts of issues when band member tune their instruments to another which is intrinsically our of tune. I won't go into the maths of music but tuning to a high or low frequency instrument like a bass or alto sax is fraught with issues, the band may very well sound in tune with each other but can sound odd when listened to as a whole. With time and lots of playing with others I became more adapt at tuning my own instrument and recognising when others were wrong.

So what is the point of my ramble, over about 6 years my brain became more able to hear different tempos and rhythms, and scale, and I was better able to hear a tune and how the notes/chords related to each through improvisation, basically my musical appreciation improved. My wife is a very good example of a person who says she does not appreciate music or my system, how often have we heard that? She says she cannot hear any difference musically between my system or say our Apple Home Pod, but if I put the same piece of much on both she can hear the audible difference an SQ. She says she is tone deaf, which is rubbish as she knows when she is off pitch when she attempts to sing, and says her singing is awful. Her issue with singing is she was not taught as a child how to sing the basic Do Ra Me Fa So La Ti Do scale in any key and control her voice box to do so. We all can do so with different levels of success, this is a basic starting point musically for an individual to be able to appreciate what it is hearing musically, the brain needs a term of reference to make sense of musical structure.

Ultimately I think this may be why one person can hear subtle differences in one system to another and another will not.

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Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony

Perhaps the processor in your brain is of "dolby atmos" quality, as opposed to mine which is probably 70s Amstrad quality.

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If your brain was 1970s Amstrad it would have already have failed - probably catastrophically - by about June 1980.

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Originally Posted by Macca

If your brain was 1970s Amstrad it would have already have failed - probably catastrophically - by about June 1980.

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It did. Thank God Dr Steepletone was on shift that day :)

I have opened a can of worms when I thought TT oil would be a fairly straight forward simple job but as in all things hifi this appears not to be the case. I must admit it is something I have rarely done - probably only once with my VPI although I have done some cleaning and restoration on a Lenco GL75 bearing and spindle. But TT bearing oil seems to be another strangely bizarre aspect of performance I took for granted and thought it was not that important. I must confess I am not an expert on all areas of hifi and learn by trial and error and lots of research. However my investigation into TT bearing oil was brief and half hearted. I simply took for granted that a motor oil could be used as recommended by the TT manufacturer although I used a 30W rather than 40W.

This has had implications and challenged my knowledge and thinking. TT oil is as I am beginning to realise is another influence on sound. Now that I have looked into it further I have opened pandoras box! The possibilities maybe endless as I do have a wide range of oils I could experiment with. I would have left well alone if I had not experienced a negative aspect to my listening last night which can only be accounted for by the changes I made to the oil. I did not want to really believe it could be so but after hearing some issues I went away and researched a little and that is when I realised some of what I experienced could indeed be attributed to the change of oil!:doh:

I have found that bearing oil can lower the noise floor and therefore allow a greater audible dynamic range. Surface noise on the record can also reduce allow for greater detail to be observed. This chimes exactly with what I heard last night but as in all things hifi it was not a massive night and day difference. During Christmas I had experienced a big uplift in the SQ from my system due to some of the changes I had made to speaker toe-in and listening position. These were not so apparent after I had changed the TT oil!

As I mentioned on my "Turntable Lube" post I had lost some air and ambient information which was also critical to the impressions I was getting from the soundstage which had been significantly enhanced due to messing with listening room. There were certain vocals that had previously had great ambience and space around them and indeed greater presence in the room. These were knocked back by the change of oil! At first I did not want to believe or acknowledge it but as I have now listened more there has definitely been a negative effect.

Also the soundstage has shrunk and become flatter and there is less openness to the sound. These are subtle cues in the listening experience and were not apparent when I first changed the oil but as I went through more well known material they became obvious. So I have decided to go through the whole oil replacement procedure again and this time return to some Audio Origami bearing oil which indeed I had used before. But I may go off piste and try something else in the meantime and do a little experimentation as I have a hunch something else may work!:scratch:

Interesting post James. I bought a used Planar 3 as a Christmas present to myself recently and wasn't sure when the bearing was last serviced. Firstly, I tried some Audio Origami oil, however, I thought the sound was a bit thin and weedy. I then used some gear oil and have been happy with the SQ. I know every turntable/bearing is different but I look forward to your findings here.

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Originally Posted by brian2957

Interesting post James. I bought a used Planar 3 as a Christmas present to myself recently and wasn't sure when the bearing was last services. Firstly, I tried some Audio Origami oil, however, I thought the sound was a bit thin and weedy. I then used some gear oil and have been happy with the SQ. I know every turntable/bearing is different but I look forward to your findings here.

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Thanks Brian, I was not really aware bearing oil could make such a difference, at least audible difference. But it is unmistakable now I know what I am looking for.
I think you are right in that each Turntable will be influenced differently by changing to do different types of oil.

As I have found, oil is not simply for making the platter go round smoothly and stopping wear on the metal parts!!:doh::lol:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Thanks Brian, I was not really aware bearing oil could make such a difference, at least audible difference. But it is unmistakable now I know what I am looking for.
I think you are right in that each Turntable will be influenced differently by changing to do different types of oil.

As I have found, oil is not simply for making the platter go round smoothly and stopping wear on the metal parts!!:doh::lol:

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I'd have thought that would be exactly what it was for, but then maybe it's not a case of oil is oil is oil. Varying engineering tolerances and motor torque between turntables may call for different viscosities. Maybe your choice of engine oil is simply too thick.

Anyway, it's good that we have someone with 'golden ears' and the patience and determination to keep plugging away (yes that's you James) :)

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Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony

I'd have thought that would be exactly what it was for, but then maybe it's not a case of oil is oil is oil. Varying engineering tolerances and motor torque between turntables may call for different viscosities. Maybe your choice of engine oil is simply too thick.

Anyway, it's good that we have someone with 'golden ears' and the patience and determination to keep plugging away (yes that's you James) :)

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I wish I hadn't started on this one Steve, its not like I am looking for things to do!:) I am alarmed to find someone else on another forum used the exact same oil as myself and then changed to a more suitable oil and had dramatic results. This just sends my audiophile nervosa into overdrive!:lol: