Jimbos Audio ramblings

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Originally Posted by Barry

The first LP to have been digitally recorded was Ry Cooder's "Bop Till You Drop". I have it and the soundstage is flat - with the performers popping up like the flags on an old-fashioned cash register, or the ducks in shooting gallery. Tonally it's fine, but the soundstaging is flat.

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I have this album too and 100% agree. Buy Paris Texas on vinyl and it will blow your mind.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I have this album too and 100% agree. Buy Paris Texas on vinyl and it will blow your mind.

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its a good soundtrack; good film too

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Originally Posted by struth

its a good soundtrack; good film too

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Would love to see it again but its been sometime since its been round on the telly.?

Having thought about it some more I can't see any reason why the soundstaging 'issues' on 'Bop Til You Drop' can have anything to do with it being a digital recording.

Wikipedia has this to say

Cooder and his excellent band, which includes the rhythm section of Tim Drummond and Jim Keltner along with guitarist David Lindley, understand the material and are more than capable of laying down a decent groove, but something must have gotten lost in translation from what was played to what came across on the recording. There's a thinness to the tracks that undermines the performances, which according to Cooder is due to the digital recording.[8]

So seems to be Cooder himself who first put the idea out there - although the reviewer seems to think the problem is that it sounds 'thin' rather than anything to do with soundstage.

I can think of a few analogue recordings which might be described the same way. But this is a production choice and therefore intrinsically part of the art.

There's no reason why it would sound thin due to digital recording either. Although it's possible that with the tech being fairly new they didn't use it right I suppose.

With digital recording the one thing you don't want to do is exceed 0db and clip it - so with early digital recordings (and transfers done from tape to digital for the first CDs) there was a tendency to overcompensate for this by keeping levels low in mastering. (Now we have the opposite issue where they ram it all the way up, even into clipping aka 'The Loudness Wars)

The solution with these 'thin' CDs is just to turn it up a lot more on playback - assuming the playback system is capable of this - which many are not even to this day.

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Originally Posted by Macca

Having thought about it some more I can't see any reason why the soundstaging 'issues' on 'Bop Til You Drop' can have anything to do with it being a digital recording.

Wikipedia has this to say

Cooder and his excellent band, which includes the rhythm section of Tim Drummond and Jim Keltner along with guitarist David Lindley, understand the material and are more than capable of laying down a decent groove, but something must have gotten lost in translation from what was played to what came across on the recording. There's a thinness to the tracks that undermines the performances, which according to Cooder is due to the digital recording.[8]

So seems to be Cooder himself who first put the idea out there - although the reviewer seems to think the problem is that it sounds 'thin' rather than anything to do with soundstage.

I can think of a few analogue recordings which might be described the same way. But this is a production choice and therefore intrinsically part of the art.

There's no reason why it would sound thin due to digital recording either. Although it's possible that with the tech being fairly new they didn't use it right I suppose.

With digital recording the one thing you don't want to do is exceed 0db and clip it - so with early digital recordings (and transfers done from tape to digital for the first CDs) there was a tendency to overcompensate for this by keeping levels low in mastering. (Now we have the opposite issue where they ram it all the way up, even into clipping aka 'The Loudness Wars)

The solution with these 'thin' CDs is just to turn it up a lot more on playback - assuming the playback system is capable of this - which many are not even to this day.

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I think it was the first album to be digitally recorded and they were getting to grips with the technology and didnt get it quite right. I have the album on vinyl and it sounds not only thin and washed out but very processed. The fact it comes across like this on vinyl means something was definitely amiss as I have hundreds of albums on vinyl taken from digital masters but they don't sound digital unlike their counterparts on CD!

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I have the album on vinyl and it sounds not only thin and washed out but very processed.

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As does mine. I always wondered if it was deliberately made to sound unlike analogue productions.

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Originally Posted by walpurgis

As does mine. I always wondered if it was deliberately made to sound unlike analogue productions.

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I am a big fan of Ry Cooder and there were some decent tracks on this album but unfortunately I find it unlistenable on vinyl. Maybe it came off better on digital?

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I am a big fan of Ry Cooder and there were some decent tracks on this album but unfortunately I find it unlistenable on vinyl. Maybe it came off better on digital?

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I have it on vinyl, sadly not played very often, in fact not listened to it for years , once I’ve found which box its in I’ll give it a spin.

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Originally Posted by rmcin626

I have it on vinyl, sadly not played very often, in fact not listened to it for years , once I’ve found which box its in I’ll give it a spin.

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Your system will reveal all very clearly. I am sure you will wonder where or the guts went too in the recording?:)

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I think it was the first album to be digitally recorded and they were getting to grips with the technology and didnt get it quite right. !

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According to Wikipedia 'The album was the first digitally recorded major-label album in popular music', not the first digital recording ever made or released.

I doubt the engineers had no experience at all with the equipment but agree they could still have been getting to grips with it.