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Last piece of the jigsaw now in the rack:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/a...9/DSC_0041.jpg
he really does make awfully nice cakes;)
Looking good Martin . There can't be many of those going around , working ones anyway . Where did you get this one from ?
How's it sounding?
+1 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by walpurgis
Got it from Stephen AKA Mr Kipling.
Sound is very smooth, clean, plenty of wallop. Nothing does wallop like an SLP1200. It isn't edgy at all, might be a little too 'B&O' for some, though, if you prefer edge-of-the-seat-resolution. These days I'm after a more relaxing sound, albeit with good weight and resolution in the bass. I demand 'satisfying' bass :)
I know from owning them previously that this is one of those bits of kit where a lot of what is good about it creeps up on you over time.
Enjoy mate :)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a943adb579.jpg
Hope you get it, mate.
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he's having a larff:stalks:. love them too but thats silly money imo
Not even the broadcast version.
Just having a listen to this one Stephen sent me now. So different from my Parasound! No wonder people's opinion of digital audio varies so widely. Always amazes me when I swap CD players, the quality may not vary that much between similarly priced players, but the presentation of the music can be so different that it's scary.
This one seems to be getting better as time goes on / I am acclimatising to how it sounds as time goes on (delete as appropriate)
Doesn't sound how my broadcast one used to sound, except for that 'weight' behind the sound, although I have changed almost the entire rest of the system since then so who knows?
Can't recall what I paid for my Techie 1200 CDP on eBay --- about £250, I think?
I enjoyed it a lot. Lots of heft, a very 'solid' sound, and the rez (;)) was pretty good if not exceptional.
I think the broadcast has more rez than the standard one. Although I think it was Tony C reckoned that electronically there was no reason for that to be so. Could be mis-remembering that. Didn't he mod your one Jerry?
Yes, he did.
A decent but not earth-shaking improvement. I must admit I am struggling now to recall what aspects of the sound improved! - but I was happy enough with the mods at the time.
If this is the same player Stephen had at NEBO I thought it sounded like a "broadcast" sound ( I know you're referring to the model with the XLRs Macca). It didn't highlight *one* particular frequency but them ALL. EVERYTHING sounded spot lit. Steve the Progmeister agreed and commented it was like listening to an FM broadcast.
Same player. Peter (Petrat) said the same, sounds like Radio 2. Completely agree. It's enjoyable and non-fatiguing but doesn't have that Radio 3 SQ. This is not the broadcast variant though. I think Stephen has tried various mods but have lost track of what he ended up actually doing to this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJo
The main difference between the two types is that the Broadcast version has the extra balanced circuit panel:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...80da81689e.jpg
The two main boards have some differences also. So any differences in sound between the two will be in the digital domain on the main boards as both have the same power/DAC panel.
I just repaired the fault and left it at that, as it sounded pretty good as it was. I tried all sorts with another, but found it difficult to come to any real conclusions due to the varying mains quality which I have.
Just got another one from Italy:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b7646298e1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8ae966ac56.jpg
Looks pretty good. Going to try an outboard clock and Lampizator output stage and DC blocker on it..
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indeed itdoes.. good luck and keep us posted.
Looks minty
You could get it to sound that way though, with the 'extra rez' you desire, whilst still retaining, and indeed building on, the sonic qualities that you currently enjoy. It's simply a matter of giving the player to someone who knows how to go about that and achieve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
That's the tricky bit though, as Mark (from Audiocom), who did such sterling work on my Sony CDP and DAC, I believe no longer modifies vintage players (or indeed any at all), as he's moved away from that market.
Doesn't mean it can't be done though, although it would take you working closely with someone who knew fundamentally how to get the most from CD, and could 'tune' your Technics player, through judicious component selection, to deliver the sound that you wanted. It's not rocket science, however, for anyone with a sound understanding of digital technology.
Resolution would be improved by employing the use of a well-designed and implemented re-clocking circuit, as it would address jitter, as would re-capping key parts of the output, where electrolytic capacitors, long past their sell-by date, will be colouring the sound, all of which will improve 'rez', without fundamentally changing the sonic signature of the player, and there are other things you could do, too.
It's all moot though, if you're enjoying it as it is, and of course how much time and/or money you were willing to throw at any program of modifications.
I spent nearly £2.5k on modding the Sonys, and they cost me as much again, when I bought them second hand, but *so far* I've yet to hear anything else that's able to reproduce CD in such a way that one can genuinely hear its true potential, and with it, digital at its very best.
I fully believe that your 'Techy', with the right treatment, would be capable of similar performance :)
Marco.
Any thoughts on that, Martin? :)
Marco.
Hi John. I used to find that the Technics amplifiers of the 80s and 90s were also voiced that way ... must have been a 'house sound'.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJo
Anyway, here's two more 'sick' ones, en-route from Martin, for delivery to Stephen's hospital services when I'm up North again next month.
My wife wondered if they were cash registers :D
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...pssypi5yes.jpg
It's getting someone to do it and the shipping issues. These things are big and heavy, lots of opportunity for the couriers to get smashey smashey with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Broadcast variant is on the right, note the differences in the layout and the displayQuote:
Originally Posted by petrat
Not one for blowing my own trumpet. My technical knowledge is limited, but I'm not a cretin. And somehow, somehow, I've managed to get four faulty ones working. Whereas, others, with greater technical knowledge than myself, would, I presume, couldn't manage. The laser in the one Martin has was replaced and had to be reset, without a 'scope and test CDs. But, somehow, somehow, I managed to do it, and it was working fine with everything I tried. Looking on-line I have found stories from engineers saying it was difficult to get the 1200 to track. They would get it to track a disc fine, then put on another, and it would skip.
If I wanted to, I could have simply put the power supply/DAC panel from the one I bought from Jerry which TonyC modded, into Martins. He would now have a sound that would be more controlled, a bit more detailed, greater separation or instruments and a greater sense of extreme right and left imagery. A more Radio 3 type sound.
He could have had that. He could have had that. But I was less than convinced after hearing Martin's with it's original panel, after getting it working. The thing that struck me, was the sense of clarity, that was missing with Jerry's panel. It wasn't just the clarity, there seemed a better cohesiveness and a sense of biggness compared to Jerry's, which sounded a bit small and restrained. TonyC re-capped the board using some Os-cons, greater value supply capacitors and additional de-coupling capacitors.
For a good 4 or 5 weeks I tried things and listened to what resulted. This shows some of that:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...64227918f1.jpg
The main supply caps were replaced with Panasonic FC types. The carbon film resistors were replaced with metal film types. The op-amps were replaced with more modern ones. The bridge rectifiers were replaced with ultrafast type diodes. The dacs were screened with lead. The wiring to and from the panel was screened with copper foil. Decoupling capacitors were added.
You might think that all of that would be "for the better". Sadly, sadly, that wasn't the case. Replacing the supply capacitors, and the carbon film resistors on the output panel containing the phono sockets with Panasonic FCs and metal films, did improve overall clarity. But, replacing capacitors elsewhere was less successful. I replaced one set with Panasonic's and another type and the bass texture suffered. So the originals went back in. Changing the original NE 5532 op-amps for LM 4562 ones brought an obvious improvement in dynamics and upper-bass snap - but again at the expense of bass extension and texture. LME 49720HA ones were tried. These are supposed to be top-notch ones. Everything sounded boring as hell, so out they came. Shielding the wires seemed to flatted things and slur transients, so off it came. The carbon film resistors were changed to metal, with mixed results, and then to Takman carbon films, again, with mixed results. At the end of the day, everthing tried had it's own set of compromises, most, anyway. And then there was component burn-in and varying mains quality. One night after trying the 4562 op-amps and some metal film resistors the sense of torque was madness. I stayed up till 2.30 listening. It was like that for a couple of nights, and then disappeared.
At the end of the day, I chose what seemed like the best compromise. To me, at least.
COST. What did it cost Martin? NOTHING. He got one working one for one non-working one. When the Broadcast one gets fixed (if), he'll get it back, although he said I could have his two for getting a working one.
The one he has was totally stripped and cleaned:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4d7a1dc69d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6623f5c72c.jpg
I don't think a service engineer would have bothered. The display was disassembled and cleaned to remove the layer of grime on it and the filter on the reverse. The front perspex panel was polished to remove some scratches. Again, not something an engineer would have bothered with. All the tactile switches were replaced, just for the feel in use. The originals feel pretty shagged. Again, I don't think a service engineer would have bothered.
To my mind, (but what do I know?) a discrete output stage would offer the most obvious improvement. And that is why I intend to try a Lampizator stage. That and a valve low jitter clock.
Bring a Sony to the next NEBO, Marco, and I'll bring a Technics as described. Hopefully it will kick the shit out of the Sony. If not, I won't be worried - as I don't have an ego to maintain.
Ask TonyC what can and cannot be done with a 1200. He has more knowledge and experience of it than I have.
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Blow away.. youve done superbly well. Techy master black belt :D
Very interesting indeed, Stephen.
And nice work, if I may say so!!
I must admit that I had hoped TonyC's mods (I hadn't realised they were so extensive!) would blow me away and take it to the sort of sound quality level that Marco is on about.
But no, a definite and hearable improvement - but basically just a bit better all round, iirc, with nothing to go WOW about, even for an over-excitable chappie like me!
Well impressed, Stephen! That's some care and energy to find what worked and what didn't.
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Thanks Stephen, all interesting stuff. The cosmetic condition is amazing, looks and feels brand new.
Did you make any changes to the output level? Seems to be lower than I remember.
I've always fancied one of those players. I think they look great.
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Thanks Bruce. Yes, it did get a bit tiring trying one change at a time and listening for changes, especially when the mains quality was less than consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by brucew268
Nice to meet you at the NEBO.
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No. I just replaced the carbon resistors on the output panel with metal films, for a bit of overall clarity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
I've just sent for a clock (not the alarm type). I'll fit it to another standard 1200 along with a Lampizator output stage along with one or two other thoughts and you can compare it to yours.
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TBH I could just LOOK at one of these all day, never mind listen to it. They are so "of my time" for a kid getting into hifi in the late eighties/ early nineties. And I loved the sound of it too. I can see one of these in my future.
Agree with Grant, great work from Stephen and a pleasure to chat to at NEBO, real gent.
That would be good. I don't think anyone has done into mods on this player to the extent you have. There is next to nothing on the internet compared to say a Marantz CD63 or something.
I just tried the obvious, which has been tried by others with various players - with varying results. I wish, I wish I could have got the best from everything I tried - the vocal clarity, the focus the crazy torque, the really fat, texturous bass - sadly, it wasn't possible.
Really curious to know what might result with the Lampizator stage, as it's a pretty simple circuit cutting out a lot of components in the signal path, that is in the output stage panel.
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Yeah, good point, although there are ways round that, if you were serious about going down that route. In any case, it looks like Stephen's got it sorted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Marco.
Lol... Me neither. It's not about "maintaining egos"; it's about discovering and listening to new and/or different kit that sounds fab, and showing folks alternative ways of getting a good sound. No problem, I'll bring the Sony combo to the next NEBO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kipling
Btw, you've done a great job with those Techies, so keep up the good work! :cool:
Marco.
Is your Inbox full? Can't send a message.
Both your 1200s are working.
martin is away at moment StevenQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kipling
Might explain it then.
Suggest you change your forum name to The Healer ... with the appropriate John Lee Hooker avatar, of course :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kipling
Well done, Stephen. Was it just that they were full of ... DUST? :lol:
Sorry. My mistake. It's me with no room for messages.
I wouldn't like to say, Peter. I wouldn't like to say.
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Hi StephenQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kipling
Did both of them have the same fault? And does the broadcast one sound different from the standard one? When I compared them I remember thinking that they were noticeably different but memory can be a bugger.
Yes, Martin. Both had the same fault (!). I sent a message, but it seems to have got lost. I'll send another.
Stripped and cleaned the Broadcast one and replaced the function switches as a few were faulty, today. Gave it the better control panel from the Standard one - and it's still working.
The two do sound different. The Broadcast version has better spatial clues, better start/stop and drive. On the other hand, on some tracks the Standard version sounds cleaner and clear. Having said that, listening to the Broadcast one just now after putting it back together, it does sound cleaner than previously. I don't know if that's down to renewing connections or just the mains quality. It does vary quite a bit, making it difficult to judge.
Oh, the output on the one you have might be down with using the remote when I was looking at it. I might have lowered the output by accident I didn't think to check the output level before you got it. I'll send a remote and you can check.
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Good to know I was not imagining the Broadcast one being better or that the output on the one you sent over seemed a little low :) Better than it being too high though. Have you determined what it is in the circuit that makes the difference in sound quality?
Looks like there is a common failure point on these units that is nothing to do with the laser or transport as people seem to assume. Probably true of lots of flagship players of all makes that have been wastefully binned because people think the laser wears out like a stylus on a record player - the internet has a lot to answer for LOL. These things are not the usual disposable consumer crap, they deserve to be kept in service as true classics.
The main board on the Broadcast version is neatly laid out and uses less components:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e158e99b9f.jpg
On the other hand, the Standard version is more scrappy and uses secondary boards for motor and another for laser switching, and uses more components:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5e8fa011be.jpg
Hardly surprising they sound different. Similar levels of differences can be had though by recapping the power supply/DAC panel or changing the resistors.
I replaced the capacitors on the motor panel that had started to leak and eventually would have caused it to fail.
It reads discs and stops really fast. Oh, and no one had looked at it previously. Bit of a novelty.
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quite a difference
So the bloke who said there was no significant difference between the broadcast and the standard either knew nothing or was fibbing. Good to know my ears were not deceiving me. It was far and away the best CD player I have had in my system, and that is out of at least a couple of dozen. It embarrassed, and I'm not exaggerating, the Cambridge Azur 840C with all of its fancy upsampling circuitry. Mind you the Parasound CDPi1000 does that too and it was only £40 used. What a hobby this is.
I think I might have said that! Suppose it depends on how much emphasis you place on significant.
I think there was something like 5 or 6 different versions. Don't know how the others differed.
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Ah! the plot coagulates. The Japanese do like to continually tinker with their products I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kipling
To my mind if I hear a difference and then it turns out there are differences in the circuitry it is cased closed. I guess I am meaning 'significant' difference as my having a clear preference for one over the other.
Replied to your PM btw