Mike New platter, Oyaide MJ-12 mat & STB-MS stabiliser arrive at Marco Towers...

I have been reading the review and comments by Marco and others concerning my latest Copper Composite Platter design for the SL1200; So far my efforts seem to have been vindicated and the results are very encouraging.

I must say however, that in my judgment, using the Oyaide Alluminium mat on top of my Platter is going to be an over-kill. We would be going to far!!!
How much does it weigh Marco?

I would however recommend using the Achromat, as, from what I can understand, this is a soft mat composed of a compliant silicone material and lots of air bubbles. Now this will provide a soft cushion for the record to bed down on, which will eliminate any tendency for the record to “Rattle” on the copper surface. (or any platter surface for that matter)
And more importantly the use of a sensibly sized centre weight (clamp) will have the effect of just gently curving the record from the centre outwards, thus clamping the record to the mat all over. (and the mat to the platter)

Indeed the Oyaide alluminium platter is provided with a slightly dished surface for this reason.
Quote:
"The surface of MJ-12 is recurved 1.0 degree which makes the record surface closely fit to MJ-12 by using a stabilizer"

Unfortunately I am still awaiting delivery of my 5mm mat from Arthur so that I can test it on my own system.
I would strongly recommend the 5mm version as this will provide just that bit more height for VTA adjustment on other arms.

I am however a bit mystified by the design of the Oyaide variable weight centre stabilizer. The following is not a criticism rather an observation!
Quote:
"It is composed by detachable 10 parts and its weight is changeable by the number of the weights for your best timbre tuning".

As far as I can determine the mass is adjusted by removing (or adding) one of the 6 peripheral weights, which are clamped around the circumference of the unit. Look at the pictures in the link that Marco has given.

Now, we are only rotating at a max of 45rpm so I am not going to invoke the laws of centrifugal forces, causing out-of-balance rotation; although of course they are theoretically present.
Rather, I would have thought that removing just one of the weights is going to have the effect of subtly changing the sonic characteristics as the location of the removed weight/weights, approaches and recedes from the radial point of Stylus contact. Remember as always, we are dealing with micro vibrations and hence micro distances. As a purist, I have difficulty getting my head around it!!

I would be very interested for those more informed than myself to give us an explanation.

Marco, in a previous post asked me to mention the price of my Platters
So I will do so here and trust that I do not invoke the ire of the moderator.

Copper Composite Platter $950.00 USD

Standard Solid Alluminium Platter $805.00

Bearing Base Plate $210.00

Solid Copper Arm Plate. machined for the
SME, Jelco, Rega or any other arm, providing
the mounting data is provided. $255.00

If purchased as a complete kit then I can offer a 5% discount; and also everything can be shipped in the one 10Kg FedEx box.

It is probably quicker to contact me directly on my email mhnew@bigpond.net.au as I can then send images concerning any questions you may have. I hope Marco agrees with this addition.

Fantastic job Mike.
I read your article in Hi Fi world about your thoughts on the bearing and was hoping i wouldnt hear the last of your work.
I didnt know you had a new arm board. I can see the need for one. The thin alloy ones , like my own, sound a bit resonant and with such a big cavity under the arm pillar i thought it needed improving.
Good luck.

Hi Mike,

How's it going - are you on malt whisky today or red wine? I hope you've managed to keep the pool cool with ice! Careful now, if it gets too hot, your bearing will seize!! :eyebrows:

Just one point from what you've written, the Achromat isn't especially soft, and it's very stiff, so when you put it on the copper composite platter it skates about all over the place, even with a fairly heavy record weight like the Oyaide on top, therefore not ideal.....

However, I haven't tried bonding it to the top of the platter with Vaseline (or whatever), so that might work. I'll try this tomorrow and report back.

Quote:

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I am however a bit mystified by the design of the Oyaide variable weight centre stabilizer. The following is not a criticism rather an observation!
Quote:
"It is composed by detachable 10 parts and its weight is changeable by the number of the weights for your best timbre tuning".

As far as I can determine the mass is adjusted by removing (or adding) one of the 6 peripheral weights, which are clamped around the circumference of the unit. Look at the pictures in the link that Marco has given.

Now, we are only rotating at a max of 45rpm so I am not going to invoke the laws of centrifugal forces, causing out-of-balance rotation; although of course they are theoretically present.
Rather, I would have thought that removing just one of the weights is going to have the effect of subtly changing the sonic characteristics as the location of the removed weight/weights, approaches and recedes from the radial point of Stylus contact. Remember as always, we are dealing with micro vibrations and hence micro distances. As a purist, I have difficulty getting my head around it!!

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Fair enough.... I can tell you though, it works - big time! :)

With these sorts of things, as simply a non-technical audio enthusiast and music lover, I refer to the old saying:

'Ours is not to wonder why, ours is to do or die...' ;)

Marco.

P.S Thanks for the clarification on prices.

Marco,
I don’t need the bloody ice in the pool any more we have gone back to winter here and it should be summer!! But it does keep the wine cooler.
No trouble with the bearing, on hot days I dismantle the SL1200 every night and put the bearing in the fridge, you can’t be to careful***

Concerning the Achromat I read somewhere that it was made of a soft material full of very tiny air bubbles. I have been miss-informed or I have miss-understood what I read. thanks for the info Marco

I have just looked up the Funk Firm site and I guess this is where I miss-understood.
Quote:
"Now we’ve got to loose this pressure wave energy. Achromat does so by using bubbles. Just as in a quality sponge bed mattress, which both supports and damps, as the thin bubble walls flex in Achromat, it is easy for the energy to be damped out.""

However it does beg the question as to the ideal mat which in my opinion would be the one I describe. The only mat I use at pressent is made of soft rubber supplied with my original SL1500 way back in 1977.
You see, if we can use a soft nitrile or silicone substance, which is pliable, then this provides a beautiful cushion for the record to bed down on. Further it permits of the very small depression across the diameter of the record when using a weight/clamp that is sensibly provided for by the Oyaide Platter.

It is not more weight that we need, rather a soft bed/cushion for the record to lie on and do it’s stuff!!

Does anyone have any info on where such a mat can be obtained.??

Origin live do a silicon type mat which is 1mm thick.
The Archomat feels like compressed cardboard. Its got a little give in it.
I was impressed with its ability to lower surface noise.

ColinB
Thanks Colin I will see if I can get hold of one. I believe this is the 'under-mat' which they reccomended when I obtained their stiff composite metal mat. It was supplied with 9 small cork pads on which to seat the mat. but then they sugested that the thin silicon disc might be superior.

I've had a look at the OL web site and they do have a long speil on their new 1mm thick flexible mat.
http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/p...-composite.htm

Maybe Marco or Martin could get hold of one and try it.
It's what they call their "upgrade mat" and costs Stg39.00
Probably would be a lot quicker that waiting for me to get one here in down-under land.

Hi Marco,
Many thanks for your explanations. Can I ask you please:
Whatever happened to the importance of the Acromat correctly 'terminating' the vinyl and having a similar 'impedance'?
Surely this cannot be said of the copper mat?
Have you a theory yet as to what is going on?

My thoughts, too. Both the Achromat and Herbies are designed to terminate the vinyl and yet they sound quite different. I plan to have a big session tonight and will listen carefully, I'll also try vinyl on the platter raw although I don't expect much from that. I think I have a Rega felt mat floating around too, will drop that into the mix.

Quote:

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I've had a look at the OL web site and they do have a long speil on their new 1mm thick flexible mat.
http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/p...-composite.htm

Maybe Marco or Martin could get hold of one and try it.
It's what they call their "upgrade mat" and costs Stg39.00
Probably would be a lot quicker that waiting for me to get one here in down-under land

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Interesting, Mike. I like your thinking, and you could be on to something....

I have to say though that so far I can detect no 'rattle' or any adverse sonic effect from placing records directly onto the copper surface of my platter, nor did I notice anything like that when I was using the copper mat on the stock Techie platter.

However, sometimes these things manifest themselves subtly on the music in a way that isn't immediately apparent.

I'll give one a go once I've finished the comparisons with everything else I'm doing at the moment, as I don't want to bring yet another variable into the equation :)

Marco.