Marco's latest vintage marvel....

A week ago, I mentioned to DSJR that I'd discovered another vintage cartridge I considered was a bit of a gem, and which was much maligned (likely because some of the equipment it would've been partnered with in its era, would've been fairly poor - I'm thinking here mainly of preamps/phonostages), well ladies and gentlemen, I give you the old BBC war horse: the Goldring G800, purloined from eBay for the grand total of £3.70 (exc stylus)....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT


http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9351/img0435c.jpg



http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7060/img0434n.jpg


http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4493/img0438js.jpg


For those interested, the headshell is NOS, from the 1980s (which cost over 10 times as much as the cartridge did!), as are the headshell leads (Sansui SSL-101 LC-OFC):


http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8746/9c1h.jpg


The G800 likes a bit of mass, so the LT-12 solid magnesium headshell, plus a 1g spacer weight, (13g in total, excluding mounting hardware) is perfect. VTF sounds spot on at 2.5g (from a range of 2-4g).


To say that this cartridge (in my system) is high in the SPPV stakes, would be an underestimation akin to intimating that Sir Edmund Hillary 'did quite well climbing a wee hill' :eyebrows:

I'm off to do a few things, but will return later with my thoughts on a cartridge harking from 'ye olden days' that shines when used with decent equipment, and yet again shows a clean pair of heels to much of the frigid and forensic sounding tat made these days in the budget to mid-end cartridge arena.....

Laters! :cool:

Marco.

P.S Dave, and it was even born in Suffolk, so you should feel right at home! ;)

If it's the one in the photo, Marco, then it's got a non-Goldring stylus in it. Genuine Goldring styli had Goldring written on them. Non OEM replacements are very common.

Yup, Shane, but it sounds mighty fine for not having an original stylus on it! However, it needs a few album sides of use before losing a slightly sibilant tendency. I got the stylus from here:

http://www.stylusplus.co.uk/stylus-f...dge-7231-p.asp

They also sell the 'posher' elliptical one for £30....

Right, must shoot - LATERS! :)

Marco.

After Shane's observation about styli, I thought it prudent to obtain an original. This one came with a free cartridge!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWNX:IT


http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/581...u3f9qjbnc2.jpg


;)

We'll see what condition the stylus is in........

Marco.

You're making me feel nostalgic - I had one of those on my first ever turntable: a Garrard SP25 Mk III

You know i just don't understand this :scratch: First up he goes & buys some Celestion Ditton 66s (which i own as well) & now he goes & buys the same cartridge that i also have kicking about here somewhere :eyebrows:

I'm off looking for a hidden camera :D

Nice one, Keith. I hadn't even heard of the G800 until Dave (DSJR) mentioned it in a thread discussing cartridges the BBC once used for broadcasting purposes, and as I have somewhat of a 'fetish' for that sort of thing, I decided to see if it would fulfil my expectations.

I very happy to say it did :)

Marco.

I got one of those some time ago. For free!

It was crap and went in the bin... Are you sure your ears are OK? :lol:

I must have 3 or 4 on those on different decks marco.. i've never bothered to try them...

i'm trying to get the new spu run in.. so it will be a few days before i have a look

cheers
steve

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I got one of those some time ago. For free!

It was crap and went in the bin... Are you sure your ears are OK? :lol:

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Of course they're not - I'm just a big daftee, remember! :eyebrows:

Steve, you should try one. It doesn't quite have the magic of the M3D, but it sounds really ballsy and tons of fun on my Techy :)

New SPU? Tell us more!! Which one did you get?

One thing though, the G800 is not the highest output MM I've used (certainly when auditioned subjectively), so you need a phono stage with enough gain to allow it to shine. Or perhaps I'm just used to the sonic effect of high-gain MC step-up transformers, when using the 103 or SPU. The output level is certainly lower than I get with the SPU, through the A23.

Still, all it takes is a heavier lean on the volume control, and all is well!

Marco.

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You know i just don't understand this :scratch: First up he goes & buys some Celestion Ditton 66s (which i own as well) & now he goes & buys the same cartridge that i also have kicking about here somewhere :eyebrows:

I'm off looking for a hidden camera :D

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It's a just a case of dafties think alike!!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

It's a just a case of dafties think alike!!

Marco.

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I guess audio dafties should after all :D

Daftie or dafteeee, well Marco you are quite a character, what does it sound like with some techno or house music daftee?

Rocks like f*ck, super-daftee - as it does with all my 80s 12" singles. Bass is powerful and extended but tight as gnat's arse, and as rhythmic a Rasta throwin' some shapes, diggin' the jiggy in da crib on nature's finest herbs..... :peace:

It's also very detailed sounding and not at all dull or 'soggy', like I've heard people referring to it as. However, not only does it boogie, it also does subtlety too, and is exceptionally good at rendering vocals with a goodly dose of realism, for an MM design.

It took a bit fine-tuning though to get it to sing. I can understand it not working well on some modern tonearms, which are of the low-mass variety, particularly unipivots. But it LURVES the Jelco in a heavy (ish) headshell! :gig:

Marco.

You must have too much time on your hands sourcing all this vintage gear, wot should I put on the end of my Garrad 401 then, its been sat 2 months waiting for an arm board!

What arm's on your Garrard - the 309?

Marco.

No, no, no. The 309 is waiting for the Roksan Shiraz to be re-tipped and then that is my Techie finished, no more will be done to it.

The 401 has the Technoarm sat next to it, not wired in yet as no arm board, I also have an audio technica arm and RB250 and RB300 and a Linn basic plus.

Lol - you're certainly not a one-armed bandit, eh? :eyebrows: Which Audio Technica arm is it? That sounds quite intriguing.

Going back to the Goldring, one must remember that the BBC would've used it in a Gray tonearm, something like this:


http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/184...knbnbdic3d.jpg


...which is of course high-mass, so I doubt you'll get the best from the G800, using it in the sort of tonearms found on most modern turntables. An original Lenco arm, I think would be ideal. Something like this:


http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9...564e828a07.jpg


The other thing is that the G800 is physically a big cartridge and difficult to accommodate elegantly (or even optimally) in a 'normal' headshell. The LT-12 I'm using is around 3cm longer than the standard headshells found on most tonearms today. Have a look at the headshell on the Lenco arm (above), noting its size and relative bulkiness, to get an idea of how to house a G800 properly in order for it to perform optimally.

Here's a more detailed picture of one: http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1...26kbtbni0n.jpg

You can see how much space is in there to do the job properly. It's no use crushing all the tonearm wires to get it to fit into a puny-sized modern headshell, which will ruin the sound, and also increase the likelihood of signal loss.

Marco.

When I started selling hifi, the bog-standard cheap as chips system was Garrard SP25, Goldring G800, Amstrad 8000 and Wharfedale Dentons. All items equally "cheap and cheerful"!

Indeed, but consider the desirability of some of that kit now, and also how much of it would outperform much of what's made today - and realise that, in reality, it wasn't really "cheap and cheerful", certainly not in a sonic sense ;)

Marco.

Hmmm, not too sure about that! The SP25 rumbled like a Chieftain tank on a Bailey bridge (the design of it's main bearing dictated that), and the Amstrad was genuinely nasty. The Dentons weren't too awful and the Goldring was probably the best bit, but any reasonably competent modern microsystem from the likes of Denon would piss all over the whole lot for about the same sized lump out of a weekly pay packet.

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but any reasonably competent modern microsystem from the likes of Denon would piss all over the whole lot for about the same sized lump out of a weekly pay packet.

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There, I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree :)

I'd rather have an SP25 with a decent arm on it, mounted in a proper plinth, than a Pro-Ject, or some other lightweight modern, mass-produced, elastic-band shite of its ilk! As for microsystems, I guess they're ok if you don't mind a 'micro-sized' sound....

Marco.

One of these was my first cartridge, and it was on an SP25.
My old man, years before, had a different SP25 and a different Goldring G800.

What was the different Goldring like, Chris - different in what way? Got links to any pics? :)

Pics of the different SP25 would be useful, too!

Marco.

What I actually meant was that they were the same model, but not the same articles. That's to say, I didn't inherit them from my old man, he got rid of his rumbly old clankety-clank machine, then a good few years later, I got into music properly & found my own rumbly old clankety-clank machine.

I got the plinth-less Garrard chassis from a mate & another mate just happened to have a suitable plinth lying around doing nothing. It gave me a huge amount of enjoyment though & I still have almost all of the records I played on it, so the stylus treated them well.

No photos, I'm afraid.

Ah, I see... Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. The Goldring certainly is a very musical sounding cartridge, which has clearly been voiced to be as accurate as possible, without undue emphasis on any part of the freqency range.

It's one of those rare designs which simply allow you to 'get into' the music with the minimum of pomp and ceremony. Me likes! And for £3.70 (£14.70 including a stylus), it has to be the biggest bargain I've ever had in hi-fi! :)

Incidentally, talking of vintage gear, I won this little chap earlier, which I intend to try on the Techy (many thanks to Andre for alerting me to it):


http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7...yk9tbnfngz.jpg


I suspect that it's fairly rare. I thought that the finish would go rather well with the copper section of my Mike New platter. I also intend to discover if its record flattening abilities are as effective as that of the Oyaide weight and mat combo. If so, the Michell clamp will be an even bigger bargain than the Goldring!! ;)

Marco.

When are you going to get a replacement stylus for the Shure SC35 cartridge (body) I gave you? It too was a preferred cartridge by the BBC.

Would be interesting to compare it with the Goldring.

But if you are looking for a cartridge with an excellent SVPP, then it has to be the Grado GTE+1. Unfortunately I no longer have one to play with.

Regards

Hi Barry,

I've obtained a stylus now for the SC35C. You must've read my mind, as I've got the beasty wired up inside my Fidelity Research S/5 headshell, ready to do battle with the Goldring tomorrow - so watch this space, amigo! ;)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Barry,

I've obtained a stylus now for the SC35C. You must've read my mind, as I've got the beasty wired up inside my Fidelity Research S/5 headshell, ready to do battle with the Goldring tomorrow - so watch this space, amigo! ;)

Marco.

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That's good news. Will be watching (and hopefully not waiting!) :)

Regards

All will be revealed - and with pics, too! :)

Marco.

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But if you are looking for a cartridge with an excellent SVPP, then it has to be the Grado GTE+1. Unfortunately I no longer have one to play with.

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I'll keep an eye out for one. Here's an interesting picture:


http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3690/retrocart1.jpg


I think someone else has similar tastes to you and me ;)

Marco.

P.S Name that headshell....

Ah, the G800 (sighs). My first cart, which I fitted to an ancient Rigonda idler-drive record deck that had an arm so massy it'd make the cranes at a dockyard seem feeble. It didn't sound 'alf bad though... :lol:

there where a few models of the 800
yours is the standard 800 by the look of it,, and retailed for around £13 in 72

there was a g800e at around £18, the g800 super e at £26, and the high out put g800/h at around £10.50

the super e was nearly as as much as the ortofon Sl15e, back in 72.....

i'm sure i have an '800 e' somewhere .

the spu is the synergy, it sounds very nice.. only got about 12 hours on it so far..
it's slightly better than the dynavector 30a.. but not by alot at this stage.

Hi Steve,

Nice one on the SPU - hope it hits the spot for you. It should sound fab on your FR/124 combo!

Thanks for the info on the Goldrings.

The interesting thing is that elliptical styli are always touted as being automatically 'superior' to conical ones, and thus more expensive, and in a technical sense they are, but usually I can't help but prefer conical ones, as although they don't quite have the fine detail retrieval of an elliptical stylus, somehow sound overall more musical to my ears.

Therefore, for that reason, I'm not sure if I'd prefer the 'Super E', or any of the others above the basic model.

Does anyone else or you know if the D110H stylus shown on this website (a quarter of the way down) is compatible with my G800?

http://www.adelcom.net/GoldringStylus1.htm

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

A week ago, I mentioned to DSJR that I'd discovered another vintage cartridge I considered was a bit of a gem, and which was much maligned (likely because some of the equipment it would've been partnered with in its era, would've been fairly poor - I'm thinking here mainly of preamps/phonostages), well ladies and gentlemen, I give you....

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:popcorn:

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Originally Posted by Marco

....the Goldring G800,

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:rofl::rofl:

Sorry, I couldn;t resist......;)

Arf!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Well, since I'm now the self-proclaimed expert on "tat" cartridges from yore, I'm going to reserve current comments on G800's until I receive my collection - I have some G800's and 800E's coming my way along with a GL78 turntable mat.... Since I have the Garrard Lab 80 spinning as I type, I should be in a good position to comment :lol:

The G800 does have a massive suckout in the mid treble (a factor of its ancient design [by John Wright of IMF/TDL fame I remember] in 1968 or thereabouts) and I remember an original sounding rather plump and confused on "Brain Salad Surgery" when compared with a Shure M75-ED with which I replaced it. The 800E with light grey/dirty white stylus assembly was rather better and clearer I remember and the 800 Super E was sublime for the period, although soon left behind in the V15III/681EEE/XLM/1000ZE-X/M15E cartridges that came along in the early 70's. Goldring fought back with the 820 series and the Super E won a group review... I was using a VV7 cartridge preamp at the time and apparently this preamp has very narrow bandwidth and overloads easily these days, so we'll see.

The Lab 80 has come with an M75-EJ with a broken stylus and I can't yet afford a proper replacement, so I chucked in the M55E with Ed saunders stylus. There's some buzzing in the background, so before I get inside to check earthing etc, the sound so far is gorgeously sweet and NOTHING like the M55E normally is (a bit distant and rough with a fizz in extreme top).

I look forward to trying the G800's again, especially the E's. You never know, I might be tempted with an AP76 to put them in.......... ;)

I can't believe how much Shure is charging for its remaining cartridges these days (except the M97XE which can be got for very reasonable money still). The SC35C sounds very like an M75-EJ - gently rolled off but very stable and "solid," but for £50, I'd rather have an Ortofon OM pro and £20 change or a Nightclub E for similar money - or even a 510mk2 I think...


P.S. The very early G800's had no writing on the styli, only after 1973 or so did the "Goldring" logo appear on the stylus front...

Hi Dave,

As ever, your comments are as valid as anyone else's, however, this:

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The G800 does have a massive suckout in the mid treble (a factor of its ancient design [by John Wright of IMF/TDL fame I remember] in 1968 or thereabouts) and I remember an original sounding rather plump and confused...

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....is fundamentally, indisputably, unquestionably *NOT* what I'm hearing! ;)

The G800 sounds sweet, wide-open, detailed - in fact, any words you care to mention which define the POLAR OPPOSITE of what you've just written.....!!

Have I made myself clear enough, lol? And I see that your favourite wee word "plump" has made an apprearance again - where's "syrupy" away to? :lol:

I wonder why we have this extreme disparity sometimes with our experiences of cartridges? :scratch:

It was the same with the SPU (and the M3D before it), and we know how wrong you were about that!! Ah well, the entertainment value is worth it! :eyebrows:

Marco.

P.S Barry, I did the comparison between the G800 and SC35C today. Interesting.... I haven't finalised my thoughts yet, but will do once I've had a proper listen to both over the weekend.

I'm not going to rise to this Marco, but the "massive suckout" has been catalogued in reviews of the period (I think there's a Gramophone review-scan online). If this is evidenced as a pleasant sweetness to you, then fine, as I have the same "effect" with the M55E, which was even worse I remember :) The V15III had a major design tweak incorporated (laminated pole pieces) which sorted this problem, which many older magnetic types have. This flat response can be a problem with the nails/styli they fitted originally, the later HE (and MR?) ones being very much better I remember.

Also, I did suggest the plump and soggy quality may have been because of the Goldring VV7 phono-preamp I was using (many cheapo £20 preamps would out-perform it I understand) and I stand by my statement that I look forward to trying out the ones I have coming :)

Oh, by the way, my experiences of the after-market styli weren't too good at the time, but again, modern automated diamond grinding/polishing should be better than budget priced efforts 40 years ago...

Hi Marco,
Do you think that the differences between your experience of these old cartridges and Dave's are anything to do with the fact that he heard them 'in period' as it were with equipment that was around at the time and that you are transposing them into a completely different environment?
Is the highly and valuable Technics/ Jelco combo dragging performance out of these carts that just wasn't available at the time?
I once heard a pair of Wharfdale diamonds sound great on the end of £20k's worth of Mark Levinson electronics..... It didn't make them great speakers it just enabled them to perform right at the edge of their envelope.

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I'm not going to rise to this Marco, but the "massive suckout" has been catalogued in reviews of the period (I think there's a Gramophone review-scan online). If this is evidenced as a pleasant sweetness to you, then fine...

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Lol - that's not what I meant, Dave.

The problem is, mate, you're obsessed with "reviews of the period" and treat them as some kind of 'written in stone' bible.

I don't give a monkey's bollocks what was catalogued 35 years ago in "reviews of the period" (no doubt derived from using 'shite of the period' as partnering equipment - I'm only interested in how the cartridge sounds in my system.

I think people respect my opinion on these matters enough by now to realise that I wouldn't be saying what I have about the G800 unless it was true.........

On that note, I'm off to spin some more tunes - laters :)

Marco.

Hi Darren,

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Do you think that the differences between your experience of these old cartridges and Dave's are anything to do with the fact that he heard them 'in period' as it were with equipment that was around at the time and that you are transposing them into a completely different environment?

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Yes, I think that's *exactly* what's going on. That, and with respect, Dave pays WAY too much attention to what is written in ancient hi-fi mags.

The sort of equiment I'm using now is in a different league to what would've been used to assess the merits of the G800 in the 1970s, particularly in terms of preamps and phono stages, which are of course hugely influential to cartridge performance.

I don't really want to dwell on this too much, so as to save arguments, but the fact is there was a lot of equipment made in the 70s which was REALLY good, but few would've heard how good it was because of the deficiencies of much of the partnering equipment then - and crucially, massive advances in the quality of things like supports and cables.

That's why the Tannoy Monitor Golds, Celestion Ditton 15XRs, Studio 66 Monitors, M3D cartidge, and many other pieces of equipment in my system, sound significantly superior than they would've done when they were first introduced onto the market, using the ancillaries of the day. Only now with the advantages of modern technology, and having learned so much about system set-up in the last 30-odd years, are we able to hear just what some vintage kit is sonically capable of.

Anyway, we'll leave it there ;)

Marco.

I'm not challenging you at all Marco and the M55E is showing me this at the moment, but just 'cos you like it doesn't mean it may still have issues, benign as they may be. The quality of the after-market stylus cannot be ignored either, as the one or two I heard, admittedly long ago now, were rather sharp and rough.

If all goes well, I'll have a collection of original plus one new pattern stylus G800's plus a 800E or two with any luck to play with. I'm not writing the thing off, but the G800 has got to go some if it's to knock an AT95E off the top-budget pickup perch - and I KNOW how good the 95E can be in a decent modern deck, as well as the Lenco arms, which it loves....

[edit] P.S. I've just ordered a new ATN95E stylus with which to compare :)

P.P.S. - Do you have ELP's Brain Salad Surgery on LP Marco? AT THE TIME, I found that my G800 had difficulty with the percussion on "Toccata..."

No problem with any of that, dude - it was simply the "massive suckout" you mentioned earlier, which quite simply, does not exist in my system, and how you appeared to be stating its existence as fact. Whoever observed that particular phenomenon, must've been experiencing issues belonging to the test system at the time.

I think we have to remember that vintage gear, just like modern kit, reacts differently depending on what it's used with, and so what was written in mags about something 35 years ago isn't necessarily applicable or even relevant now.

One should always make allowances for the effect of multiple variables, and so very little in hi-fi should be written in stone.

If anything is amiss with the sonic presentation of the G800, then it's that the top-end currently exhibits a little over-emphasis, but that's likely because the stylus isn't properly run-in yet. Treble quality otherwise, however, is excellent with plenty of detail and sparkle. Other than the need for the stylus to run-in, the G800 is *very* good indeed with the kit I'm using, and has few weeknesses, considering that it is supposedly a budget MM design - and an ancient one at that.

I agree that the quality of aftermarket styli is important for these vintage designs - it was too with the M3D - so I intend to play with ones from different suppliers, as the conical versions are pretty cheap to obtain.

When the other G800 arrives, with its Goldring original stylus, it'll be interesting to hear what that sounds like.

Btw, when you do get around to fitting any of your G800s, use an arm with some mass, particularly at the headshell end, as I've found it definitely likes that :)

Here's hoping that you enjoy your Goldrings as much as I'm enjoying the one I have :cool:

Marco.

P.S Yes, I have BSS, and so will give that track a spin, and report back.

Brilliant:)

The Lab 80 rumble-box has all the classic "idler" qualities of pitch and subtle timbre and the arm is actually perfect for the job - and with a solid cast headshell too. Some screws needed tightening and now the arm doesn't rattle around and retains low friction. even the auto-trip which has its roots in the 50's models seems to behave at side end. The "Ed Saunders M55E" sounds lovely in it and the bass now behaves itself, unlike in the Dual 701, where the bass was a bit thick and indistinct.

Potential arguments aside, this is a fascinating debate...

Like Dave, I was an avid reader of such august tomes as What HiFi, HiFi Choice and my personal favourite, Practical HiFi, back in the days of yore. I wasn't earning nearly enough money to be able to afford any of the delightfully esoteric gear that was ensconced within their hallowed pages in the '70's and early '80's. More importantly, having initially left home, I moved back into my parents house in 1981, renting a small 12ft by 6.5ft room from them. It was just about big enough to house a single bed, a small 'Tall Boy' wardrobe and a bedside cabinet. I set about installing some decent shelving above my bed to house the small amount of kit I had accrued since the mid 70's: A Rigonda Corvette record deck with a Goldring G800 cart, which I mentioned earlier. A Sony TA73 15wpc amp and a pair of Videoton Minimax speakers.

The Sony amp didn't really have enough balls to drive the Minimax's properly if I'm honest, but in such a small room and with a step-father who would yell at me to turn it down on a whim, it didn't do too bad at all. By necessity the Minimax's were on a shelf above the headboard to my bed, wired in reverse (left to right, right to left), and the rest of the kit was housed on a slightly lower shelf over my bedside cabinet. I was dead proud of that little system as it cost me peanuts (the speakers were a gift from my Dad, and the TT & Amp cost £5 each s/h), and although it didn't major on gut-wrenching bass, the overall sound was very pleasant indeed. A lot of budget cart swapping (Grado FCE+1, Glanz MFG11T and various Shures) and a couple of years later, the Rigonda finally gave up the ghost. The system was replaced by a Sony Music centre with larger, bassier but inferior speakers and the amp and Minimax's were consigned to the loft where they stayed and were forgotten when we moved.

Fast forward in time to November 2010 and an old friend popped over bearing a box containing a tiny pair of speakers he'd bought from a charity shop for a couple of quid. He'd bought them on a whim as he liked the look of them. They appeared to be well made and he wanted a decent, cheap pair of boxes for a small system he was planning for his bedroom. When he described them to me I suggested he pop 'em round so we could listen to them on my system.

Well, imagine my surprise when I opened the box and saw a pair of mint Minimax's. The nostalgia flooded back and I've never been so keen to wire up a pair of speakers in my life. We sat the little boxes on top of some anti-slip matting placed on my LS55's and sat back to listen to Dark Side Of The Moon (flac lossless). With slightly more modern hardware and close to 120wpc to play with, those little boxes sang their tiny hearts out. They were absolutely stunning! Really, how do speaker designers manage to reproduce such massive, pin-sharp soundstaging from so tiny a box? The speakers just vanished, and in their place was Pink Floyd, the band, and a trillion floating, ticking clocks, all from a speaker that was considered 'budget hifi' in its day.

I think this experience illustrates the point of this debate perfectly. Pick your vintage gear carefully. Be even more careful when matching it with relatively modern kit, and you could end up with a huge smile on your face, and money in your pockets. How I regret my forgetfulness now... :doh:

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/.../RigondaTT.jpghttp://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...onyTA73Amp.jpghttp://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/...axspeakers.jpg

I believe those Goodmans Minimax's were designed, at least in part, by ATC's Billy Woodman, who also "did" the Gale 401's I believe.

I have another cheapo memory-flood on the back burner and just missed some last week ;)

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I think this experience illustrates the point of this debate perfectly. Pick your vintage gear carefully. Be even more careful when matching it with relatively modern kit, and you could end up with a huge smile on your face, and money in your pockets.

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Dave, you are absolutely right! Lovely pics and some nice memories. I lurve the tonearm on the Rigonda - just my sort of thing! :respect:

My whole system has been assembled based on the philosophy you describe (as was the system we demonstrated at Scalford Hall), and the results speak for themselves.....

If you can judiciously select the best vintage gear and marry it with quality modern designs, then in my experience the rewards can be fantastic, and as you say, you can save yourself a whole load of money.

The problem is, so many of us are conditioned to believe that equipment made now is automatically better than something made over 30 years ago, or more. In some cases that is true, but it is FAR from being an absolute. An open mind and some lateral thinking are required.

In fact, in my experience, preamps and phono stages aside, along with advances in digital technology, it is rarely the case when a quality vintage component is compared directly to its modern equivalent, that the former loses out in areas such as 'musical realism' or 'musicality' (there's more to it than that, but we'll call it that for now for the sake of brevity), and certainly build quality.

The other thing too, is that it's part of the human psyche to judge things based on our past experiences of them, or what we may have read about them in books or magazines, which is perfectly natural. However in doing so, it can close our minds to the influence of other variables, such as how vintage equipment behaves within a modern infrastructure, as we have been discussing.

It can also lead to absolutes, and erroneous conclusions being reached. Therefore, the only way to know with any certainly how good a piece of vintage equipment *actually* is, is to assess (or reassess) it within the context of a modern system, and not simply dismiss it based on what was experienced 'back in the day'. I do hope some folks are listening! ;)

In that respect, the Goldring G800, used in the context of a modern system, is genuinely a quality cartridge. Based now on extended listening, I have no doubt whatsoever about that. A budget design it may have been 35 years ago, but then one must remember that 'budget' equipment in those days was a rather different beast to what it is today.

We're talking about in the days before mass consumerism, falling standards, and when equipment designed catered for a discerning audience, unlike in most cases today. Therefore in those days, equipment had to be good, even if it was 'cheap' - and the G800 epitomises that philosophy very nicely indeed.

Source a decent stylus (or find a NOS one, if you're lucky) and pop the Goldring on the end of a high-mass tonearm (with a suitably large headshell), run it through a quality preamp and phono stage, and prepare to be shocked and stunned at how little advance has been made in cartridge design since the days when most of us here were reading the Beano and the Dandy................

Marco.

Actually Marco, the G800 wasn't a "budget" cartridge back then, it was a broad range from the G800H (red stylus) for the SP25's and tracking at 2.5g, to the slightly higher compliance 800 proper, tracking at a shade under 2g or so, to the 800E with elliptical tip tracking at 1.5g and the double priced approx 800 Super E which was "Top End" for the period, tracking at 1.25g (the lower the tracking weight, the better the cartridge ;) ).

Seriously though, the Super E was really lusted after back then, but the 800E was the popular one for "transcription" style turntables like the Thorens, Lencos and better Garrards (the ones promised me have all come from GL75's and 78's - long story there).

I don't know how much different the 820 series replacements were, but by then, Shure ruled the audio waves and the M75-ED (got a good one of those too) was king of the middle ground.


Looking at some of the tests and knowing Mr Colloms at the time from mid-distance, I reckon that some of these pickups were slagged off because of the "next big thing..." There was quite a choice of cartridges coming along in the late 70's and some of these were really good I think, but now things have died off a bit, it's nice to go back to when things weren't so hysterical and blinkered and try again with some of these :)