Tube Heaven: The great Telefunken 803S and Tesla E83CC

For some time now I've used a Tesla E83CC in my Croft preamp as my NOS ECC83-type tube of choice (along with the main output NOS 6SL7 tubes I've mentioned before on another thread, RCA5691s and Tung Sol 6SU7GTYs), as they are to my ears, along with the Telefunken 803S, unquestionably the finest sounding ECC83/12AX7s ever produced.

The filigree detailing, sheer midrange 'presence' and huge soundstage these tubes give has to be heard to be believed!! :eek:

To that end, I bought a matched quad of NOS ones from 1982 from Tubemonger in the US before they were discontinued to do me for years (these are exactly the ones I bought). Btw, this is the 'proper' Tesla from Czechoslovakia, not the inferior 'JJ' of today:


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8701/2612.jpg


Telefunken 803S:


http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2740/803s4a.jpg


However, there are TONS of fakes around, and people claiming that grossly inferior tubes are 803s or E83CC, which makes it a bit of a minefield for people trying to distinguish between them.....

So, I found a couple of interesting articles which describes exactly what to observe when looking for GENUINE 803s or E83CC frame-grid tubes:


http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC83-part-numbering1.html


http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm


Therefore, if you're in the market for buying these very special tubes which have such unique and desirable sonic characteristics, you'll no longer be fooled by inferior sounding imitations! :cool:

Marco.

Hello Marco.

Many thanks for your very informative links again.

I have been looking for low noise ECC83 type valves to the phono stage Nick is currently building for me. Have you tried new Russian valves with your Croft? I ordered some Tung Sol ECC803 to start with, but knowing myself there will be many more valve types I will try :doh:. Only problem will be that I need 4 of them and trial and test will be expensive :rolleyes:

I am most interested in valves which produce noise as little as possible, which will be important with my phono stage.

But given your new phono stage has two separate RIAA stages in it, you can just buy two and use in one chan for a back to back comparison to other types.

You are right :o

The simplest solutions are usually in the front of me, I just have to see them :doh:. One could not imagine better option to compare valves than that :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lurcher

But given your new phono stage has two separate RIAA stages in it, you can just buy two and use in one chan for a back to back comparison to other types.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

For some time now I've used a Tesla E83CC in my Croft preamp as my NOS ECC83-type tube of choice (along with the main output NOS 6SL7 tubes I've mentioned before on another thread, RCA5691s and Tung Sol 6SU7GTYs), as they are to my ears, along with the Telefunken 803S, unquestionably the finest sounding ECC83/12AX7s ever produced.

The filigree detailing, sheer midrange 'presence' and huge soundstage these tubes give has to be heard to be believed!! :eek:


i
To that end, I bought a matched quad of NOS ones from 1982 from Tubemonger in the US before they were discontinued to do me for years (these are exactly the ones I bought). Btw, this is the 'proper' Tesla from Czechoslovakia, not the inferior 'JJ' of today:


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8701/2612.jpg


Telefunken 803S:


http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2740/803s4a.jpg


However, there are TONS of fakes around, and people claiming that grossly inferior tubes are 803s or E83CC, which makes it a bit of a minefield for people trying to distinguish between them.....

So, I found a couple of interesting articles which describes exactly what to observe when looking for GENUINE 803s or E83CC frame-grid tubes:


http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/ECC83-part-numbering1.html


http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/images/Fakes/index.htm


Therefore, if you're in the market for buying these very special tubes which have such unique and desirable sonic characteristics, you'll no longer be fooled by inferior sounding imitations! :cool:

Marco.

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Funny, I have just been down this route myself and did research Tesla etc regarding authenticity and did see that very informative site jacmusic. Subsequently I did get hold of some Authentic NOS Tesla ECc83 and stuffed the Croft 25R with said items.

I can concour that the result was unbelievable and a massive improvement over the JJ Teslas. It was difficult however obtaining these tubes as I dont think there are many genuine ones available on the open market.

I spent months researching NOS tubes as I believe you must have but the results are very much worthwhile.

Wish I had found this post on AOS way back as it would have saved me a lot of time, however the research was very educational. I would say for those intending to go down this route be very careful with purchasing any of these NOS valves as the genuine ones are nuggets of gold and as such are rare and often faked.

A year on from my last post I have now put some NOS Tesla ECC83,s in the valve reg stage. I was not expecting much difference but the improvement was dramatic. I have had enough NOS Tesla,s to do this for ages but only did this last night as an experiment.

The soundstage was far bigger and the sheer presence of vocals was astonishing. Everything became more focused and detailed and the whole sound lost some of its coarseness in comparison with the JJ Teslas I had previously in the regulation stage. Wish I had done this sooner.:doh:

My 12BH7A arrived today - a1960,s NOS GE 12BH7A with gold Frame Grid:stalks: This will be popped in the linestage next weekend so could improve things even further:eek:

I will update when it has burnt in.:)

Nice one, Jim. There's a MASSIVE difference between the sound of the best NOS valves, compared with current production pap. Enjoy! :cool:

Marco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marco

Nice one, Jim. There's a MASSIVE difference between the sound of the best NOS valves, compared with current production pap. Enjoy! :cool:

Marco.

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You are certainly right there Marco. Might have to invest in some more so have enough NOS valves to see me out. :)

Can,t go back to some of those new production valves as the difference is simply too great.

One small thing that troubles me is getting hold of NOS valves that have never been used. There are too many circulating that have had many hours on them.

Might have to invest in a tube tester such as the one below:eyebrows:

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/orange-vt100...FUTnwgodcYsAdQ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

You are certainly right there Marco. Might have to invest in some more so have enough NOS valves to see me out. :)

Can,t go back to some of those new production valves as the difference is simply too great.

One small thing that troubles me is getting hold of NOS valves that have never been used. There are too many circulating that have had many hours on them.

Might have to invest in a tube tester such as the one below:eyebrows:

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/orange-vt100...FUTnwgodcYsAdQ

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That tester will not do much to sort the sheep from the goats, NOS is a condition rather than a measurable state. Theres an argument that you are better off with lightly used tubes anyway as they will not suffer the plate degradation as their getters have been more active mopping the stray gasses up before the damage gets done.

Agree about the Teslas, and the good news is that Peter at Edicron has stocks of them, very nice tubes.

It'll tell you if you are buying tired valves being sold as NOS though.