Worst Music For Your System

I've recently experienced a phenomenon following on slightly from the "Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else" thread.

As the bulk of my listening (although subject to change!) is based around a lot of old and new electronic music, mostly in vinyl format, I have been 'tuning' my system to best show off this genre.

I've been chopping and changing for a month or so with ancillaries including, interconnects, speaker jumper cables, tubes (in phono stage and pre-amp), cartridge loading plugs and indeed the TT itself.

Anyway, I'm happy with the result and my collection of electronic music has never sounded better. Before it was just decent but now its a whole new level. I then put on some more 'commercial' offerings of acoustic/rock/prog etc. It's on another level now and I was very surprised at the difference. Classical recordings have taken a real leap in dynamics too, its very captivating.

Logically I would surmise that a lot of my electronic records (especially the older ones) are not cut with 'fidelity' at the top of the priority list (although some most certainly are and can be spectacular). However, tweaking the system so it is able to 'deal with' and indeed excel in some cases with these less than great sounding records has resulted in the entire system being elevated across all genres, I guess it's been somewhat 'calibrated' in a way if that makes sense.

Something I would like to know is if anyone else has managed to make some music go from mediocre to very enjoyable by doing anything similar. Basically is there a particular genre/band/album/song giving your system problems and what did you do (if anything) in an attempt to rectify it, what were the results?

Obviously I haven't tested my theory particularly thoroughly but anything I throw at the system now sounds sublime, in summery if it can handle low fidelity/scratchy/pounding/break-beat electronica, everything else appears to be a walk in the park for the system so to speak.

I would also ponder that a lot of more 'commercially' available music is not really stretching the limits of many systems in the same way that say, an old Trance record might. Hence it sounding 'pretty good' on most systems, understandably not pushing people to extract even more from what might already be a very good sounding system, but.... could it be a lot better . . . . ???

I would say from my experience taking a spread of favourite tracks from different genres and tuning your system to get the best out of them is the way forward.

I have noticed that some records that didn’t sound that great previously have improved when re-played, I can’t think of a specific example at present. However I have noticed as well that some poor recordings sound even worse, I suspect that this is because the system is getting every detail, Warts and all, so much so the some records will be replaced with better copies.


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Originally Posted by AJSki2fly

I would say from my experience taking a spread of favourite tracks from different genres and tuning your system to get the best out of them is the way forward.

I have noticed that some records that didn’t sound that great previously have improved when re-played, I can’t think of a specific example at present. However I have noticed as well that some poor recordings sound even worse, I suspect that this is because the system is getting every detail, Warts and all, so much so the some records will be replaced with better copies.


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I certainly get that Adrian. With my Quads (which I've actually swapped for more conventional speakers at present) if its a bad recording/pressing it REALLY shows, so much so as to be un-listenable.

Normally when I'm setting a system up I do have my go-to 10 or so tracks to put it through its paces, maybe I need to reevaluate just how challenging these are to the system. Its just after tweaking the system to show off challenging electronic stuff, whatever I now play on it does sound better than before. To a more or lesser degree anyway.

I think the system has a good balance of detail retrieval coupled with a good 'rich' musical presentation to it. Perhaps with systems more tipped towards detail retrieval, you'd have to be a lot more careful 'tuning' them to suit a particular genre, as like you say it could just highlight the bad bits.

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Originally Posted by Opti-cal

I certainly get that Adrian. With my Quads (which I've actually swapped for more conventional speakers at present) if its a bad recording/pressing it REALLY shows, so much so as to be un-listenable........

I think the system has a good balance of detail retrieval coupled with a good 'rich' musical presentation to it. Perhaps with systems more tipped towards detail retrieval, you'd have to be a lot more careful 'tuning' them to suit a particular genre, as like you say it could just highlight the bad bits.

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I think the key is that as you go up the SQ scale then hifi components tend to be more revealing and introduce less coloration to what is being played. A good example in my system is the Wilson Benesch Vectors, very accurate and detailed, especially in the Mid and Top end, they are known for this, and some have described them as having a clinical tendency, I would disagree with this view. What I do find though is that if I put a poor recording through the system, be it vinyl or digital, then its bad qualities will be greatly exposed. Previously I used Tannoys, and had a pair of older JBL's, both sounded good but they were IMO more forgiving when it came to highlighting the warts, why this was I have not idea. What I do know is that the WB's give me a more musical and accurate rendition in my set up and room, to my ears anyway.

I have and do experience the same with a couple of cartridges, I have the top end Benz Micro LP-S, a highly respected and very good MC, considered to be very musical and good at extracting detail, also a Goldring 2500 MI(moving iron) cartridge. I know with absolute certainty that they are both sonically and in terms of musical reproduction very, very similar to the extent most would find it hard to differentiate between them, certainly in a blind listen. I even suspect some would prefer the Goldring. But what I can hear with the LP-S is more very subtle detail in the mid and top end and shall we say slightly more open feel in the sound stage. What this also means is that once again the LP-S is certainly less forgiving of a poor recordings/pressings. By way I would say that in terms of VFM the 2500 is worth its weight in Goldring(sorry about the pun).

So I think when putting a system together or tuning it to what you want, it really is down to what the individual wants to hear and enjoys. For example lots of vinyl audiophiles love to use SPU cartridges, I believe many say they give a smoother and warmer rendition, making it all more musical, I would probably agree with this for certain genres, and in fact if that's your bag then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. For me I want to try and get to hear the record as it was recorded and heard in the studio or live session, or as close as possible, probably not achievable in the real world but we can all dream. I used this extreme example because I think it applies to nearly all aspects of a system, pre-amp, amp, speakers, interconnects and speaker cables. Put one of these in a system that has a particular trait and you will emphasise that trait or balance out another or worse cause a clash. It has taken me over 4 years of gear swapping and listening to get to what I like within my budget, whether it sounds good to others or not does not really matter, it works for me and that's what is important. We may be moving house soon and I am quite concerned how it will all sound in the new lounge although after alterations it will be a similar size and layout to what we currently have so I am hoping it will still be good.

So my advice is if you are happy with how your system sounds stick with it, especially if it plays you favourite music well.

For my electronic music I tailored my system to have gob fulls of slam and bass propulsive power. I also have a massive stereo sound stage and huge ambience. What I found was that with jazz such as Diana Krall and Tina May, in fact any female vocal and double bass based music, the sound is bloody stunning. Not intentional but good that it has happened.

I've been pondering the relationship between the number of recordings that sound good, and how that changes with improvements in my system.

I put forward the idea that the statistical bell curve applies to recording quality. At the low end there are very few which are very bad, most in the middle are pretty good, and at the highest quality end there are few recordings.

With my last system configuration I had a few favourite test recordings which I regarded as exemplary, and all sounded very good. With my more recent configuration some of those recordings previously regarded as almost exemplary, now have faults revealed in them.

So, with what I consider to be a better system - more transparent to the recording, the acquisition of a better system has reduced the number of recordings giving pure pleasure, because I hear flaws.

So a "better system" in your case Dennis has resulted in a significant loss of musical enjoyment. Not good. :(

The Beatles... because I don't like them :lol:

House music maybe? I don't have a subwoofer for uber low output.

(c)RAP.
Rectification is don't play it, result - bliss. :lol:

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Originally Posted by AJSki2fly

I think the key is that as you go up the SQ scale then hifi components tend to be more revealing and introduce less coloration to what is being played. A good example in my system is the Wilson Benesch Vectors, very accurate and detailed, especially in the Mid and Top end, they are known for this, and some have described them as having a clinical tendency, I would disagree with this view. What I do find though is that if I put a poor recording through the system, be it vinyl or digital, then its bad qualities will be greatly exposed. Previously I used Tannoys, and had a pair of older JBL's, both sounded good but they were IMO more forgiving when it came to highlighting the warts, why this was I have not idea. What I do know is that the WB's give me a more musical and accurate rendition in my set up and room, to my ears anyway.

I have and do experience the same with a couple of cartridges, I have the top end Benz Micro LP-S, a highly respected and very good MC, considered to be very musical and good at extracting detail, also a Goldring 2500 MI(moving iron) cartridge. I know with absolute certainty that they are both sonically and in terms of musical reproduction very, very similar to the extent most would find it hard to differentiate between them, certainly in a blind listen. I even suspect some would prefer the Goldring. But what I can hear with the LP-S is more very subtle detail in the mid and top end and shall we say slightly more open feel in the sound stage. What this also means is that once again the LP-S is certainly less forgiving of a poor recordings/pressings. By way I would say that in terms of VFM the 2500 is worth its weight in Goldring(sorry about the pun).

So I think when putting a system together or tuning it to what you want, it really is down to what the individual wants to hear and enjoys. For example lots of vinyl audiophiles love to use SPU cartridges, I believe many say they give a smoother and warmer rendition, making it all more musical, I would probably agree with this for certain genres, and in fact if that's your bag then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. For me I want to try and get to hear the record as it was recorded and heard in the studio or live session, or as close as possible, probably not achievable in the real world but we can all dream. I used this extreme example because I think it applies to nearly all aspects of a system, pre-amp, amp, speakers, interconnects and speaker cables. Put one of these in a system that has a particular trait and you will emphasise that trait or balance out another or worse cause a clash. It has taken me over 4 years of gear swapping and listening to get to what I like within my budget, whether it sounds good to others or not does not really matter, it works for me and that's what is important. We may be moving house soon and I am quite concerned how it will all sound in the new lounge although after alterations it will be a similar size and layout to what we currently have so I am hoping it will still be good.

So my advice is if you are happy with how your system sounds stick with it, especially if it plays you favourite music well.

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Thanks for the detailed response there Adrian.

I think the absolute virtues (and indeed flaws) of some components only reveal themselves completely after prolonged listening. You have to get somewhat 'attuned' to things. I'm not talking about say a bookshelf speaker vs an Altec behemoth horn, but more your comparison of the two cartridges you mention there. They both might sound very good in their own right but the superior cartridge wins out eventually and not perhaps for any reason you can put your finger on or reference. 'It just does'. Musicality, sparkle, whatever.

I wonder how many choose equipment based on their listening preferences, again, this is where people can develop a real 'penchant' for valves, horn speakers, huge SS amps, SET's etc.

A while ago I was enamored with 'cheap' little SET's and some horn speakers but tailored my listening to suit as it just couldn't handle anything other than 'soft' rock and vocal/acoustic/jazz. As is tried and tested with this kind of setup.

I think with electronic music its difficult to know exactly how everything 'should' sound as its unlikely that you will be able to create the environment the producer was mixing/mastering it in. With most other music striving for the exact recording accuracy of the setting, instruments and musicians, is indeed what I think most people are after. The problem (or maybe the freedom) with electronic music is that a lot of it is just sampled and created inside a program or recorded with a combination of analogue/digital equipment but not into microphones as such, hence no 'correct' (accurate) circumstance or setting is on the record.
If we were just trying to create what the producer/master engineer was hearing, I'd be sitting here with a pair of active monitors and a ton of room treatment on a swivel chair!
Now I know for a fact some producers to cut their mixes with the 'club' in mind (there is a genre known as 'big room house' for example). Now they may not even get to try the record in such an environment before it is actually released and it is just down to a combination of mastering skill and pot luck (almost) if it sounds good on a particular club system or not.
In my experience a lot of records are actually cut with less bass and low end to account for the massive subs and bass bins they are likely to be heard through in these environments and can sound limp and lifeless on a lot of systems. It's one of the reasons I run dual subs as well as speakers that can 'get down there'.
Converse to that there are also a lot of records cut with a huge emphasis on the bass and low end as they are more intended for radio play and are most likely to be heard 'pumping' out of a 2" 1.5w speaker.

I know the aforementioned practice (loudness wars etc) is present in most music (tailoring to suit the most likely demographic) but the variation seems wider in electronic music, to me.

The 'within budget' point is a very valid one. Not just in terms of saving money and not overspending but if you cannot backup the initial expenditure with the repair/maintenance costs of owning a vinyl/valve based setup, in my experience its just not as enjoyable. I did have a Benz Micro Ace low output MC cart. It was bloody magnificent but I would fret about putting hours on it and it was always in the back of my mind during long listening sessions . Stupid I know, but its my nature. (Don't take the protective plastic off displays/vinyl has to be spotless/stars have to be aligned kind of guy I'm afraid) . . . . I think they call it OCT . . .

Anyway, I'm a lot happier playing records on something I know I can afford to replace at any time (at the moment) rather than having to scrimp for a few weeks in order to do the same. I guess its finding the balance of your outlay vs enjoyment. I think this factor is quite specific to vinyl setups and to a lesser extent valve equipment. SS and digital can pretty much be left alone bar the odd bit of maintenance. Electrostats . . . . well maybe I'm just unlucky but it took a year and three 'back to workshop' trips to get them right and now I'm not even using them in my main system!!

I'm quite intrigued regarding your points on the Goldring 2500. It's a lot closer to my budget than most of the Benz stuff that's for sure. Can't argue with a good bang for buck cart, you just can't!