Cd Transports Oldies and Goodies??

[newboy]

I am pondering on going further with CD improvements

Current system has just finished having the latest full house Caiman mods (Elna Caps, Murata Regs) including Gator with TIRNA - Thanks to Jimmy
(Nice helpful bloke) and Stan's Gator) I am not fully burned in yet but just know from the off that this is good now and substantially on the way to an even bigger improvement.

My question revolves around a potential transport upgrade.

Current set up uses a Marantz 17 and Modded Caiman through WD Pre3S WD88 which has started that dreadful upgrade bug again.

Should I buy an older high end transport and run an upgrading route with the DACs?
Transport - needs to have a spares and service capability! How much of an improvement should this make?

What should I aim for? - Wadia 3200, Teac Metal VRDS, Theta, AS ??

What about Spares and serviceability? - Any advice/suggestions offers? welcome.

[Ali Tait]

I'd opt for a Squeezebox Touch. That way, you can get into high rez too.

[Reid Malenfant]

Theta are decent, i have a Data Basic here that's a nice bit of kit :) Only problem is if the laser mechanism gives up the ghost as it's a Philips CDM9 Pro & out of production :doh: Not sure about other Theta transports mechanism wise..

You could look out for a Krell MD10 or MD1 as i have a spare laser mechanism here i have no use for having bought the wrong one :D

I don't know much about Wadia or the Teac transports..

[Reid Malenfant]

Before going mad you might like to investigate which laser transports are still in production, no point in buying something non repairable :)

[Spectral Morn]

Before going mad you might like to take a look at this site[/URL], it lists all the laser mechanisms used by different manufacturers in their players & transports. Wish i'd seen it before buying the wrong one for my Krell :rolleyes:

This way you can possibly buy something with a laser mech still in production ;)

Virus alert on that site guys don't go there :)


Regards D S D L

[Reid Malenfant]

Virus alert on that site guys don't go there :)


Regards D S D L
Really? :eek: Lot of good AVG is if it doesn't give you a warning :scratch:

I'll get rid of the link just to be on the safe side, i suggest you do the same with the quote Neil ;)

[Spectral Morn]

Really? :eek: Lot of good AVG is if it doesn't give you a warning :scratch:

I'll get rid of the link just to be on the safe side, i suggest you do the same with the quote Neil ;)

Done.

It was some kind of Trojan :eek:


Regards D S D L

[Reid Malenfant]

Interesting, Firefox stopped the site from adding some kind of application & i bet that was it ;)

Sorry to go off topic but i have been there a good few times & had the same popup & i know this PC is clean ;)

Others may not have been so lucky though - cheers for pointing it out :)

[Spectral Morn]

Interesting, Firefox stopped the site from adding some kind of application & i bet that was it ;)

Sorry to go off topic but i have been there a good few times & had the same popup & i know this PC is clean ;)

Others may not have been so lucky though - cheers for pointing it out :)

I am doing a deep,level scan just to be safe.


Regards D S D L

[Alex_UK]

Right - AVG, MacAffee & Microsoft Security Essentials didn't flag anything on that site - however better safe than sorry - I have taken the data and put it into an Excel spreadsheet - if anyone wants a copy PM me with your email address.

[newboy]

:doh:Hi and thanks to:
Ali Tait,Mark and DSDLfor advice

Please keep the advice and options coming even items to purchase - though that should be for the FS/wanted section!

I am told by "her indoors" that she likes the idea of a tactile CD player as well. Digital streaming is somewhere in the future when I can understand how it works and I am able to sensibly get set up to download easily with a lot less hassle. CD players may be on their way out? But how to I find one to cherish and keep where not only does it sound the business but I will not find too many problems with laser replacements, drawer mechanisms drive belts and such things as. I will of course PM Alex for his helpful list.

Or am I wasting my time and you are saying that I am asking for something that obselescence without recourse will reduce to the scrapyard at the first problem?
Slick engineered proper metal transports I reasoned should give a good basis for a good sound?

[Spectral Morn]

Micromega Dialogues a good transport and the lazer can still be got. Philips Pro 2 if I remember right.


Regards D S D L

[Alex_UK]

Well according to the list Neil, the Micromega Dialog is a DAC - the transport is the Micromega Data - CDM 12 :scratch:

[Spectral Morn]

Well according to the list Neil, the Micromega Dialog is a DAC - the transport is the Micromega Data - CDM 12 :scratch:

Ohh I am tired Alex ;):lol::lol::lol:

I mean't Data

Its very good, I have one. Got it cheap as the transport had died but got a new one fitted a few years ago.



Regards D S D L

[DSJR]

Theta are decent, i have a Data Basic here that's a nice bit of kit :) Only problem is if the laser mechanism gives up the ghost as it's a Philips CDM9 Pro & out of production :doh: Not sure about other Theta transports mechanism wise..

You could look out for a Krell MD10 or MD1 as i have a spare laser mechanism here i have no use for having bought the wrong one :D

I don't know much about Wadia or the Teac transports..

The cheaper TEAC VRDS transports are well-disguised Sony's, so spares at least shouldn't be a problem hopefully.

Avondale refurbish the standard CD-M9 mechs as used by Arcam and Naim amongst others, but I don't know if Les would be willing to take on the pro version as used in the Theta's and early AVI players (the AVI's are still very good, if a pain to operate). Theta certainly had talented designers and their digital products punched far higher than their conservative, bling-less styling would indicate.

I'd be inclined to look out for a Sony 555/557ES type of battleship player and mod the heck out of the power supplies etc. Sony's such as Marco's will be as hens teeth in the UK, but the 502/505 and 555 were very popular and still not too pricey I think.

[newboy]

Am I to take it then that a good solid oldie transport may be blessed with lower jitter posibilities and as with turntables is the better way of starting with a solid start point hopefully collecting fewer errors to allow reduced correction in the data? Dacs seem to me to be the path for future upgrades?

Now armed with new knowledge to work with I feel a little more streetwise and able to move further with the project.

We have not touched on drawer mechanisms Gears, Racks, Belts and the like - what are the thoughts on obsolescence dangers here?

thanks again to all of those who have contributed - Special thanks to Alex for his comprehensive listing of the internals.

[RochaCullen]

Just wondering myself about the same topic. There is a guy not so far away from me selling one of these:

http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/sony-super-audio-cd-sacd-qs-scd-xb940/448438

Just wondering if this is the kind of thing you should be looking for if you just want a decicated trasport mech?

Nathan

[Filterlab]

How about one of the Pioneer Stable Platter players? Rock hard drive, uber cheap and quite a few about. Stick a wazzer of a DAC on the end and you'e got a seriously nifty player. :)

PD-S703 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pioneer-PD-S703-CD-Player-/260736732048?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item3cb51ecb90)

PD-S707 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pioneer-PDS-707-CD-Player-/250773202737?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item3a633f6731)

PD-S904 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIONEER-CD-PLAYER-PD-S904-CLASSIC-/130486476023?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item1e61999cf7)

PD-8700 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIONEER-PD-8700-CD-PLAYER-REMOTE-VGC-/180629535096?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item2a0e5bf978)

[MartinT]

You could take an alternative approach and look at the list of transports that Audiocom will mod with a clock upgrade. Since timing and jitter are the most important concerns, taking this route will give you an excellent transport feed. I echo the recommendations for Teac VRDS or Pioneer stable platter drives. I can also recommend the Audio Research transport (CDT1?) which I used some years ago, if you can find one.

[Ali Tait]

How about one of the Pioneer Stable Platter players? Rock hard drive, uber cheap and quite a few about. Stick a wazzer of a DAC on the end and you'e got a seriously nifty player. :)

PD-S703 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pioneer-PD-S703-CD-Player-/260736732048?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item3cb51ecb90)

PD-S707 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pioneer-PDS-707-CD-Player-/250773202737?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item3a633f6731)

PD-S904 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIONEER-CD-PLAYER-PD-S904-CLASSIC-/130486476023?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item1e61999cf7)

PD-8700 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIONEER-PD-8700-CD-PLAYER-REMOTE-VGC-/180629535096?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item2a0e5bf978)

Seconded. I have a PD-S703. It's in the cupboard now, but it was very good when I used it. A bit cosmetically challenged and no remote, but was only £19.99 from Cash generator.

[Audiocom AV]

I am pondering on going further with CD improvements

Current system has just finished having the latest full house Caiman mods (Elna Caps, Murata Regs) including Gator with TIRNA - Thanks to Jimmy
(Nice helpful bloke) and Stan's Gator) I am not fully burned in yet but just know from the off that this is good now and substantially on the way to an even bigger improvement.

My question revolves around a potential transport upgrade.

Current set up uses a Marantz 17 and Modded Caiman through WD Pre3S WD88 which has started that dreadful upgrade bug again.

Should I buy an older high end transport and run an upgrading route with the DACs?
Transport - needs to have a spares and service capability! How much of an improvement should this make?

What should I aim for? - Wadia 3200, Teac Metal VRDS, Theta, AS ??

What about Spares and serviceability? - Any advice/suggestions offers? welcome.

Hi Rod

An interesting question.

Several CD transports from Sony, Teac, you can still get laser spares for. They may have been deleted from the catalogue, like the Sony KSS-151A, but if you search you can often find a dealer with a few units.

CD transports like the Teac P-30, or Esoteric P-70 are worth tracking down. The P-70 last production was 2006 and expect to pay as much as £3250 for a S/H transport. The Teac P-30 can be purchased S/H for around £1200.

The lasers in transports like the Sony CDP-R1 (KSS-190A) are not available anywhere;
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-CDP-R1.html

Here is a good link to check the laser type in different Sony players;
http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sonyresource/resource-laserpicks.html

Best,
Mark

[newboy]

Hello Mark,
Thanks for the words of advice regarding my CD transport upgrade thoughts.

There are a lot of units out there and I would propose that your advice onreclocking etc may well be on the agenda with an upgrade path starting with my Standac and going to who knows where?

I note that there is a Theta Pearl on that dreaded site at the moment and the pioneer 1343 Transport spares seem available. Not sure about the drawer mechs though? Also I have an offer of a Wadia 3200 but no knowledge on parts availability? Any further clues as to any goodies to seek is always welcome.
I missed a bargain Teac 700 by a few minutes recently which sold for not a lot of money and looked good.

I have not considered my CD17 to have a transport in the real top end league and discounted doing anything to this - Any comments on this?

R:scratch:
Regards,

Rod

[Audiocom AV]

Hello Mark,
Thanks for the words of advice regarding my CD transport upgrade thoughts.

There are a lot of units out there and I would propose that your advice onreclocking etc may well be on the agenda with an upgrade path starting with my Standac and going to who knows where?

I note that there is a Theta Pearl on that dreaded site at the moment and the pioneer 1343 Transport spares seem available. Not sure about the drawer mechs though? Also I have an offer of a Wadia 3200 but no knowledge on parts availability? Any further clues as to any goodies to seek is always welcome.
I missed a bargain Teac 700 by a few minutes recently which sold for not a lot of money and looked good.

I have not considered my CD17 to have a transport in the real top end league and discounted doing anything to this - Any comments on this?

R:scratch:
Regards,

Rod

Hi Rod

There are a few options here.

Firstly, what is your budget for a new CD transport?

Best,
Mark

[Mr. C]

Mark,

I managed to find some genuine Soy units for the Teac's and Esoterics, not cheap £280 with all the shipping and cash transfers.

The gent had a batch of close to 100 of them all genuine ex Sony stock, I had taken in a P-30 and treated it to a new laser service and a little upgrade in the DOB section.

[Audiocom AV]

Mark,

I managed to find some genuine Soy units for the Teac's and Esoterics, not cheap £280 with all the shipping and cash transfers.

The gent had a batch of close to 100 of them all genuine ex Sony stock, I had taken in a P-30 and treated it to a new laser service and a little upgrade in the DOB section.

Hi

Excellent news.

So you have plenty of stock of the KSS-151A?

If you can service the P-30, P-70, etc., I will glady send enquiries your way.

Please let me know.

Best,
Mark

[nat8808]

Buying an old transport is like buying a cheap old car - They are mostly fine, will run and run and will be cheap to get used spares which you can fit yourself, keeping costs very low over its life time. However, people worry about old cars and want warranties and dealer servicing so will spend tens of thousands of pounds rather than a few hundred..

I have never ever ever experienced a dead laser on an old machine, only more modern and cheap machines..

The CDM9 for example mostly goes wrong because the thing that the CD sits on gets pushed down its shaft and seizes against the mech - prise it up again and a Naim CD 3.5 is magically fixed, yet even a hifi repair man will say 'it's the laser - it will need a new mech'. Even if they did go wrong, they can be found in cheap machines and swapped out. A Philips 930 for example will cost you £30 working.

Depends what you want in terms of looks or cost or rarity etc.

I found a Sony NS-something DVD player in the recycling and it is a good transport, even plays SACD. Cheap looking though but free. You can see here: http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/REFERENCES/Goldmund/goldmundizator.html that Goldmund swapped out the innards of a good but cheap DVD player and turned it into a multi-thousand £ machine.

That Wadia 3200 is a little in the same vein - it's just a Marantz CD94 transport with a thick aluminium face-plate stuck on the front and a very small chip circuit added for the AT&T output.

I would just go for something solid, old, cheap and just enough bling. Personally I place solidity over bling any day.

If you must have serviceability then really you can only buy new or a few years old so that spares are available - either way you're talking a fair amount of money in comparison..

[Audiocom AV]

Hello Mark,
Thanks for the words of advice regarding my CD transport upgrade thoughts.

There are a lot of units out there and I would propose that your advice onreclocking etc may well be on the agenda with an upgrade path starting with my Standac and going to who knows where?

I note that there is a Theta Pearl on that dreaded site at the moment and the pioneer 1343 Transport spares seem available. Not sure about the drawer mechs though? Also I have an offer of a Wadia 3200 but no knowledge on parts availability? Any further clues as to any goodies to seek is always welcome.
I missed a bargain Teac 700 by a few minutes recently which sold for not a lot of money and looked good.

I have not considered my CD17 to have a transport in the real top end league and discounted doing anything to this - Any comments on this?

R:scratch:
Regards,

Rod

Hi Rod

I sent you a PM reply.

Clock upgrades to certain CD transports are going to work very well, others will bring more marginal improvements, it depends on the circuit arrangements.

Several modern DAC’s like the Arcam rDac, TeddyDAC, have excellent resilience to jitter, not used the Standac so cannot comment.

In my experience, the Philips lasers used in the Wadia 3200 (Marantz CD94) have been more reliable than those in the Pioneer players.

If you must have a CD transport and are averse to streaming, then the Wadia 3200 is a good choice. As I mentioned in the PM, and other have suggested here; streaming music is now getting very good. A squeezebox Touch and Teddy Pardo linear power supply will give most £2K CD spinners a run for their money.

Best,
Mark

[newboy]

Mark,

thanks for your thoughts which I have taken on board. I really must ponder good advice and not suffer from tunnel vision.

I ned to look at what will be required to move to DS and when
I am definitely a V:doh::scratch:irgin Numpty with this and need to find someone to explain things and hold my hand!

Also my thoughts on older transports were that they were better than modern equivalents at similar price points. Perhaps an audit on new or nearly new players/transports is in order. Specialised often unsung brands abound and do not seem to fare as well as one would expect sometimes?

I will no doubt be back looking for my Nirvana or brought down to earth with a bump soon when pocket money will allow.

A confused hobbyist,