NVA Amplifiers

[Darren Cotter]

Hi Guys,

At some stage I am going to add a Pre-Power amp to my Denon 5.1 set up. I have been looking at the NVA range, and like the trade-in policy, and the general comments about the sound quality.

My only concern is that you pretty much have to use their interconnects and speaker cables, and I don’t really want to get into the same situation I had when I had a medium sized NAIM system.

So what do you guys think of the NVA’s Pre-Power amps? Also, anyone have any comments on their speakers?

Regards,

Darren

[Ammonite Audio]

It is certainly true that you have to use low-capacitance speaker cables with NVA gear, but you're not so restricted for interconnects. NVA speaker cables are actually rather good and well priced, but NVA will tell you which other types of cable are unsuitable. NVA preamps are not preamps as such, rather a passive control unit, so interconnects can have a significant effect on the frequency balance, but in a way that's good because these things are very much a matter of taste. In my experience, NVA amps have a rather nice, open and musical sound - very dynamic too. A bit like Naim but without any of the harshness, which is a very good thing.

The speakers are unusual and are designed to work with the room in a different way to most conventional boxes. They do take a bit of getting used to, but I find them to be quite musically expressive. Whether you are prepared to overlook their characteristic presentation is something that only you can decide. One of the AoS members 'docfoster' uses NVA amps and speakers, so I would ask him for his thoughts.

A good place to speak to NVA users is Audio Chews http://audiochews.com/index.php?p=/discussions . Also the HiFi Subjectivist Forum, which is run by Richard Dunn of NVA.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, seconded on NVA speaker cable, it's good, if not the cheapest.

[Darren Cotter]

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for your comments, and the links. Naim without the harshness, sounds good.

Regards,

Darren

[Darren Cotter]

Hi All,

Another question I forgot to ask is, why do NVA use captive mains leads? Wouldn’t it be better to supply the same leads with the normal kettle type socket on the amps, and allow the user to experiment if they wish?

Regards,

Darren

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I had a NVA P50 and A30 ...it was very good .. i had a naim nac82 and nap180 at the time and in some respects the little nva hifi was better ... it was certainly nicer to listen to ... but lacked drive by comparison ...
of course that was a baby NVA hifi, and i very nearly sold all the naim kit to buy a big NVA hifi ... but didnt have the guts in the end
i also had a little headphone amp of his ... was very good! but it over heated - Richard gave me a full refund without any hesitation ...
i still use nva ls1 cable and haven't yet found anything better that i could afford

ask him about his captive leads ...
he resides here http://thehifisubjectivist.noadforum.com/

[Marco]

Hi Darren


Another question I forgot to ask is, why do NVA use captive mains leads? Wouldn’t it be better to supply the same leads with the normal kettle type socket on the amps, and allow the user to experiment if they wish?


I believe that NVA use captive mains leads because their amps have been specifically designed to sound best that way, as the effect of the supplied cables has been factored into the design, which is why I doubt that using any other mains leads will genuinely improve their performance. They may, however, superficially improve matters simply through tailoring the sound to suit systems where not every component is from NVA.

It is the very same situation with Naim gear.

The fact is that if you hard-wire (or captivate) your mains lead of choice inside equipment, the sound will be significantly better than introducing an IEC socket, which in reality are evil things that degrade performance through introducing another interface, increasing contact resistance and impedance, and thus adversely affecting 'signal' integrity, resulting ultimately in a worse sound.

The only good reason to use IEC sockets on equipment is to facilitate choice of partnering mains leads, as people enjoy experimenting, and to make things more practical when plugging and unplugging your gear. They exist on hi-end equipment for no other reason.

Although I'm not a fan of Mr Dunn on many levels, I admire his approach here, as ultimately it will result in better performance when using NVA equipment with most systems. A hi-fi system, after all, is simply a series of interfaces; therefore it makes sense that those interfaces should impose the least possible compromise on the intended design.

That is why using a complete NVA system, with all the cables provided, will likely yield the best results (presuming one likes NVA gear) than mixing and matching components with those from other manufacturers :)

However to confirm this, you should speak with Mr Dunn directly, as he may have other views on the subject which I haven't covered fully.

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Hi Darren

I had a good listen to a full NVA rig with the larger cubes ' last year at Scalford , my 1st impression's were that it was a bit bright and brash , but i sat down for perhaps 40 minutes or so and was struck by how dynamic it sounded , i think the brashness may have been down to the room as it seemed a bit hard .

I think NVA kit like Naim can be an acquired taste ? one thing that it isn't and that is dull or boring to listen to , at Whittlebury i heard the system again with the smaller cubes at a much lower volume , it sounded completely different ! In a much smaller room , i think some member's on here were less than complimentary about it , but on the whole i think its got something to offer , worth a dem at least .

[DSJR]

Certainly not "neutral," but wonderful for the sense of life and verve it presents. Not having those awful IEC mains sockets can only be a good thing IMO, as long as the mains leads Richard fits are properly specified for the job.

Naim without the harshness? Far be it for me to take a "Mick Parry" stance on my "favourite" amp brand (:rolleyes:), but current Naims DON'T sound harsh unless they're pushed hard. The Pink Fishies' favourite CB and Olive range are long obsolete now and unless serviced, knackered too, so not relevant to today's "new product" market.

It has been said that modern AV amps are really good, properly designed and with some real technical investment and MONEY put into the basic designs, which evolve as the years go on. Adding a niche market "online only" pre and power that was never designed for universal purposes is not really an option, unless the NVA is used the way the designer/manufacturer requires and also with the cables and speakers recommended (their own and possibly Neat and Kudos?).

[Ammonite Audio]

Naim without the harshness? Far be it for me to take a "Mick Parry" stance on my "favourite" amp brand (:rolleyes:), but current Naims DON'T sound harsh unless they're pushed hard. The Pink Fishies' favourite CB and Olive range are long obsolete now and unless serviced, knackered too, so not relevant to today's "new product" market.

I should have stressed that the harshness comment is to do with long-held perceptions of Naim stuff, which do not reflect their current kit (at least the SuperNait that I heard not so long ago). I think that many people will understand criticisms of the older Naim designs, which are (IMO) comprehensively bettered by most NVA amps.


Adding a niche market "online only" pre and power that was never designed for universal purposes is not really an option, unless the NVA is used the way the designer/manufacturer requires and also with the cables and speakers recommended (their own and possibly Neat and Kudos?).

I think you'll find that "online only" is the most effective business model of our times. How many traditional dealers are having to close their doors, or move to selling from home? I will not put words in Richard's mouth, but NVA only exists because of being sold direct. That he has a no quibble money back guarantee should mean that nobody makes a huge mistake when buying unheard.

[HighFidelityGuy]

Don't let the cable "issues" put you off. The interconnects are less critical but you must use low capacitance speaker cables. NVA's bottom of the range LS1 are very good and a perfect match. You don't need to go for the higher end LS3 or LS5 right away, especially if you're choosing a lower powered amp or use small speakers. The 3 and 5 just have more conductors. Steer clear of the LS2, it's a budget cable and not of the same quality as the LS1. If the LS1 is too pricey then DNM (http://www.dnm.co.uk/cablesdetail.html) cables are all low capacitance and possibly cheaper, especially if you buy off the reel and make up the cables yourself. DNM's interconnect cable should also be a good match.

Richard lists traded in cables and electronics on his ebay shop (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/nene-valley-audio/_i.html?_nkw=traded&submit=Search&_sid=132923798) quite often, so that's a good way to grab a bargain. I've tried several NVA cables in my own system over the years and I liked the sound of all of them. In the end I found other cables matched my system a bit better but I don't use NVA amps. :)

[Darren Cotter]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the replies. Nothing is going to happen for a couple of months, so it gives me time to think it over.

I’m not sure about all the references to the “Naim” sound. I used to have an 82, two Hi-Caps, 250, CDI, LP12 Ittok LVIII and SBLs. I found the sound harsh, and that’s why I gave up and got a 5.1 system. Perhaps I should go for a valve pre-power?

Regards,

Darren

[HighFidelityGuy]

That's a whole different kettle of fish. Perhaps you should demo a few different amps etc, preferably at home and see what your ears prefer now. Maybe compare an NVA amp against an Icon audio valve amp or something like that. That would give you a starting point to work from in either a solid state or valve direction.

Do you have much in the way of hi-fi shops on the Channel Islands? :scratch::)

[Darren Cotter]

Hi,

Short answer, none. That's why I am going to have to buy sight unseen. I'll probably end up getting something second hand from this forum, and if it's not suitable, then I can just sell it on.

Regards,

Darren

[Ammonite Audio]

Darren - don't fret, because "harsh" is not what the House NVA sound is all about. With NVA, you get really good musical timing and expression, without any tonal stress. I'm sorry if I confused you by mentioning Naim.

[HighFidelityGuy]

Hi,

Short answer, none. That's why I am going to have to buy sight unseen. I'll probably end up getting something second hand from this forum, and if it's not suitable, then I can just sell it on.

Regards,

Darren

Ok, not to worry. I think that's a reasonable plan.
Another good brand to check out is Croft Acoustics (http://www.croftacoustics.co.uk/main.html). Glenn Croft's pre-amps are valve based and his power amps have a valve driver stage and Mosfet output stage. So you get a nice compromise between the two technologies. All his gear is hand made and point to point wired but very reasonably priced for the quality. Entry level components are £700 and top end £1400. They come up for sale on odd occasions but most buyers hang on to them for dear life. :eyebrows: They're very well respected round these parts. :)

Maybe start a new thread detailing your budget and musical preferences etc and ask for some advice. Then put some wanted requests in the Private Exhibitions section. Quite a few people have been converting their gear into cash recently due to the economy, so you may find some bargains. :)

[hifi_dave]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the replies. Nothing is going to happen for a couple of months, so it gives me time to think it over.

I’m not sure about all the references to the “Naim” sound. I used to have an 82, two Hi-Caps, 250, CDI, LP12 Ittok LVIII and SBLs. I found the sound harsh, and that’s why I gave up and got a 5.1 system. Perhaps I should go for a valve pre-power?

Regards,

Darren

Early Naim, such as you had, was in-yer-face but later Naim from the past 12 years or so, is much better balanced and mellow. Don't confuse old Naim with new Naim - totally different.

[jandl100]

I would thoroughly recommend NVA amps and the customer service that goes with it.

Richard Dunn was kind enough to loan me several power amps to try out ... from the smaller models up to the then top of the range A80 monoblock amps. A very consistent house sound, but worthwhile improvements as you went up the range. I bought the A80's in the end and hung on to them for a long time (for me!).

Natural, musical, spacious, dynamic. Very nice.

In your 'isolated' situation, the refund option makes a lot of sense.

But you do have to be careful with loudspeaker cables, as has been said. I've tried the LS3 and LS5 - both are good, and the LS5 is superb. Avoid the cheapo LS2 - horrible stuff!

[Mr Pig]

I used to have an 82, two Hi-Caps, 250, CDI, LP12 Ittok LVIII and SBLs. I found the sound harsh

Naim stuff lives on the edge of harshness at all times. You need to invest the time and effort into getting it to work in your situation but it can be done. Although I agree with you, I had my Naim kit working quite well but I still got rid of it! ;0)