View Full Version : Why I dont want a turntable
Covenant
20-02-2011, 16:17
I love records and still have loads from my younger days but I dont want a TT, thanks very much.
Its not 'cos I am lazy and prefer to stream music. Its not the cost of a good one or the hassle of setting it up. Its not the horror stories about knocking the cantilever off an expensive cartridge or the many pitfalls on the upgrade path.
Its how fickle the whole thing is. There are so many things to get wrong that I wouldn't enjoy it.
So I am staying digital-so there.:cool:
I'd very nearly convinced myself that too...
Vinyleyes
20-02-2011, 16:51
I never touched mine for 15 years, pulled it out of the cupboard, got it set up in 30 minutes ,,, and since then no worriess .. working great ,,, and I have no desire to upgrade ! There are load's of TT's out there built like rock's .. (not that one though !!) .. my son is using an old Sony Direct Drive in his bedroom .. it sounds great in a system made up of 30 yr old gear .. and they jump all over the place in there with no problems ... ;) ......... Mind folks do say that some people worry more as they get older... :lolsign: .....
Rare Bird
20-02-2011, 17:05
Loverly things (some anyway) but i wouldnt be seen dead with vinyl these days, maybe a bit hypocrytical coming from someone who lives vintage, but i get far superior sound listerning to open reel taken from CD source than i ever did from any record player, this is how it will be forever now with me. :)
Covenant
20-02-2011, 17:10
How easy is it to find what you want to listen to on a reel Andre? Do you have a little book with a list of albums/tape positions?
Rare Bird
20-02-2011, 17:12
How easy is it to find what you want to listen to on a reel Andre? Do you have a little book with a list of albums/tape positions?
Don't buy pre recorded tapes they suck, most are recorded at 3.75ips..use no less than 7.5ips
Why not just listen to the CD?
Ian Walker
20-02-2011, 17:21
Why not just listen to the CD?
Cos he lives in the 70's Daftee:lol:
Hi Jerry,
What prompted this thread, lol? :eyebrows:
Marco.
I used to be pretty keen on my turntables. I don’t miss them now, but I put an awful lot of effort by the way of mods into them at the time (machine shop access is a wonderful thing)
The biggest headaches for me with regard to vinyl replay wasn’t really to do with kit, location and setup, it was the medium itself; just to fragile and by the time I switched over, way too expensive for decent quality records.
Add to this that the majority of recordings are now digital anyway (cutting them to vinyl doesn’t make them sound any better) one may as well have the file coz that’s what music is these days.
The thing is, file audio has just as many pitfalls and problems in my experience. The notion that it’s any simpler than vinyl replay to squeeze quality sound out is a total fallacy imo.
I can’t honestly judge whether my current file system gives as good a sound as my vinyl system used to but I suspect not. I’m getting there, but simple and cheap it isn’t.
I think the file people forget to cost in storage. For every CD I buy, there is not only the intial cost, but also the storage and backup storage cost to consider. Naturally enough, when a more reliable storage with potentially better quality sound such as SSD sorts itself out I’ll want to change to that. The vinyl and CD people don’t have this problem.
Computers specifically designed for audio are relatively new. When say the Logitech Touch or similar wake up a bit and give sufficient processing power and better connectivity options I’ll probably want one of those or a custom built equivelant.
Even music players cost money. Foobar for example is excellent for a free player but XXhighend for example gives a better sound at certain resolutions and it ain’t cheap.
CD replay is still the most straightforward but in time I think it will go the way of vinyl.
Vinyleyes
20-02-2011, 19:14
I guess 90% of my vinyl is over 25 yrs old .. going on 40+ ... :) .... Who cares about new vinyl except a rare treat for something that is special ... A Hendrix remastered in mono from the original masters ... something of that ilk ... Maybe the Beatles when they put them put again .. ..
I hear what you are all talking about but at the end of the day it is what we like that counts ... and mine is for my old vinyl to stay as old vinyl ... Maybe when I retire ( haha! asif) ...... I may get the time to transfer them all to another medium .... and when I'm too decrepit to get out off the sofa to turn em' over then I might enjoy/apprciate streaming from the latest controller at my fingertips ... But right now I don't even have time to get the record cleaner out .. so I have all kinds of improvements to hear again from my albums ........ And .... Call me nostalgic, Call me old fashioned ... Call me an old fool ... In fact call me whatever you like ... but I LOVE MY VINYL ... ....... ;) .............. Nothing else reaches those parts .... :cool: :cool: :lolsign:
WOStantonCS100
20-02-2011, 19:28
Brother of mine, he who cares for the opinion of the multitude will never soar above the crowd.
Great verse. The multitudes seem to love CD's and files. Me? I am swimming in vinyl and loving every flipping (literally) minute of it. :):lol:
“Brother of mine, he who cares for the opinion of the multitude will never soar above the crowd.”
Sounds okay if you say it quickly and don’t think a lot about it ;)
Have to agree with your comments and i have almost given up my self, but a good quality, analogue recorded lp beats any of my other stuff cd or files.
Just for those alone , im keeping my spinner.
BTH K10A
20-02-2011, 19:49
CD can be fully Re-mastered from original master tapes which is a plus point over the old vinyl straight away.
I've always thought the opposite applies to most "newly re-mastered" releases, both on CD and vinyl.
There is always the issue of some degree of degradation over time with the master tapes and I know this can be overcome by some digital wizardry but does it make it better?
Then there is a person sitting at a mixing desk performing all sorts of nasties with limiting, compression and pan pots etc.
Most of the classical re-issues are reasonably good and there are some examples where the new cutting has surpassed the old. Pressing quality can be a hit or miss with some labels though.
Outside of Classical and Jazz, I find a lot of re-mastered "oldies" on CD have significant amounts of limiting applied and lack the dynamics of the originals.
Andy
Have to agree with your comments and i have almost given up my self, but a good quality, analogue recorded lp beats any of my other stuff cd or files.
Just for those alone , im keeping my spinner.
ditto :)
Vinyleyes
20-02-2011, 19:51
“Brother of mine, he who cares for the opinion of the multitude will never soar above the crowd.”
Sounds okay if you say it quickly and don’t think a lot about it ;)
:) ............ I think it sounds better .. the MORE you think about it ... :cool: But then I would as I put it there .. it's a quote from one of The Great Masters ..
But each to their own ........... so what about this one over a glass or two of brandy ... ;) ......
"The fault of others is easily perceived, but that of oneself is difficult to perceive; the faults of others one lays open as much as possible, but one's own fault one hides, as a cheat hides the bad die from the gambler."
Jac Hawk
20-02-2011, 19:54
you see i'm the opposite, i would love to get another TT, my problem is that the ex chucked all my vinyl, and everything i have now is on CD or flac, i miss the snap crackle and pop of an LP, maybe i'm looking at it through rose coloured glasses
:) ............ I think it sounds better .. the MORE you think about it ... :cool: But then I would as I put it there .. it's a quote from one of The Great Masters ..
But each to their own ........... so what about this one over a glass or two of brandy ... ;) ......
"The fault of others is easily perceived, but that of oneself is difficult to perceive; the faults of others one lays open as much as possible, but one's own fault one hides, as a cheat hides the bad die from the gambler."
I actually like this one that I came across a while ago when reading my daughter her bedtime story:-
"My candle burns at both ends
It will not last the night
But ah my foes and ah my friends
It gives a lovely light"
you see i'm the opposite, i would love to get another TT, my problem is that the ex chucked all my vinyl, and everything i have now is on CD or flac, i miss the snap crackle and pop of an LP, maybe i'm looking at it through rose coloured glasses
If my wife found out how much I am spending on those damned black flying saucers/frisbees players she would chuck me out! :eek:
Vinyleyes
20-02-2011, 20:01
Crikey Mike .. I was lucky ... when I left the ex it was in my beat up old Range Rover and in the back I took .......... You guessed it .......... ALL MY VINYL ........ all my hifi gear ... and my guitars hahah !! ;) ............. Anyway I'm just down the road as you know so when I do get this system properly sorted you are welcome to come down for a sesh !! :cool::cool::cool:
I have about 5000 CD's & just under 4000 LP's. I love CD's as much as my records but when I buy music I get a bigger buzz buying vinyl. Why?? simply because I buy more CD's so buying vinyl is more of an event. I pondered selling all my vinyl just before Xmas and talked myself out of it with encouragement from my missus. I do listen to my cd's more than records but love that moment which comes along once in a while where you enjoy watching the LP turning and the beautiful music coming at you from the speakers. This rarely happens when listening to CD's ..I don't quite know why.
WOStantonCS100
20-02-2011, 20:37
The house and the cars she could have; but, no negotiations on the vinyl and the guitars. They are mine. :fence:
............ I think it sounds better .. the MORE you think about it ... But then I would as I put it there .. it's a quote from one of The Great Masters ..
But each to their own ........... so what about this one over a glass or two of brandy ... ......
"The fault of others is easily perceived, but that of oneself is difficult to perceive; the faults of others one lays open as much as possible, but one's own fault one hides, as a cheat hides the bad die from the gambler."
First in this instance you have to decide who the multitude are ;)
Not to mention the soaring above bit which I have always understood as the heretic burning while the faithful looked on :eyebrows:
Tea would be nice.
(need to stay sober around here in case the faithful sneak up on me :eek:)
WOStantonCS100
20-02-2011, 20:43
I have about 5000 CD's & just under 4000 LP's. I love CD's as much as my records but when I buy music I get a bigger buzz buying vinyl. Why?? simply because I buy more CD's so buying vinyl is more of an event. I pondered selling all my vinyl just before Xmas and talked myself out of it with encouragement from my missus. I do listen to my cd's more than records but love that moment which comes along once in a while where you enjoy watching the LP turning and the beautiful music coming at you from the speakers. This rarely happens when listening to CD's ..I don't quite know why.
I would fully admit that men are visual creatures and part of the whole vinyl thing is visual. That's really ok with me. Having said that, if the sound sucked, I'd be the first to toss the T/T out on the lawn. But, next to my reel, it's the best sound I've ever gotten out of my gear and I spent a long time (10 years) trying to get good digital sound and I've gotten very close with 24/176.4. But close is just close; so, I keep adding vinyl. New vinyl is a crap shoot. But, even if it's just 16/44.1 on vinyl... it's still a helluva a lot prettier to look at. :stalks:
Pete The Cat
20-02-2011, 20:51
I adopted CD early and rarely used a turntable until recently when I bought another one to fiddle with. How I've missed the ritual of it all, being able to appreciate the album artwork properly and watching the impossibly anachronistic spectacle of a turntable at work...and the warmth of the sound by comparison is a delight.
I'm now about to remarry a few hundred albums :)
Pete
Its how fickle the whole thing is. There are so many things to get wrong that I wouldn't enjoy it.
This I don't get. Once you've achieved setup on a good deck, it's as stable as any other source component.
For me it's about sound quality over all else. I wouldn't lose vinyl now because it takes me closer to the music than SACD, DVD-A, CD or streaming sources, and I have all of these to compare against.
Omg, I’ve gone all weepy with the nostalgia of it all, what with the Linus quotes and all that lovely cosey warm sound.
And the shopping, mustn’t forget that!
Oh, and the pictures; f*****g great big ones at that!
(ffs, someone pass me a tissue)
:lolsign:
Thing Fish
20-02-2011, 21:13
Covenant wrote - 'Its how fickle the whole thing is'
I think that's perhaps why a lot of people like their turntables. They like to fiddle and tweak.
Being more tactile than say an mp3 it becomes a more personal and involving experience.
It does for me anyway. Hey Ho.
Covenant
20-02-2011, 21:14
I think if I played my old albums now they would sound dreadful. Although I was very keen on looking after them, other people were not :(. All the clicks and pops would detract from the enjoyment so that would mean replacing them; if you are going to replace them you might as well get decent copies.
Its a minefield.
Well we really don't want another round robin of Digital vs. Vinyl, I don't think... There are advantages and disadvantages to each and every format, otherwise we would all only be using "the one" - whatever that may be... So in the meantime, unless space really is paramount, why limit yourself to one or two formats - have your cake and eat it! (What a stupid expression that is, why would anyone want a cake and not eat the f'in thing?!)
Did you miss my post #9, Jerry? ;)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
20-02-2011, 21:16
For me it's about sound quality over all else. I wouldn't lose vinyl now because it takes me closer to the music than SACD, DVD-A, CD or streaming sources, and I have all of these to compare against.
I tend to agree Martin, we all at the end of the day would like the best sound quality possible ;)
The problem as i see it is not everything is available on vinyl (not that i'm saying it's better of course :eyebrows:). With the music i tend to listen to nowadays i find that it's only available on CD. As an example take Fax +49-69/450464 (http://www.discogs.com/label/Fax+%2B49-69%2F450464) which i have a lot of. Some early stuff was released on 12" single on vinyl (which i have one or two of), but the majority are CDs & they no longer do vinyl.
Ello Alex. You sober now? Good time I hope :)
Covenant wrote - 'Its how fickle the whole thing is'
I think that's perhaps why a lot of people like their turntables. They like to fiddle and tweak.
Being more tactile than say an mp3 it becomes a more personal and involving experience.
It does for me anyway. Hey Ho.
I don't! But I do like to try out different arms and cartridges, so I have four turntables. However there is always a couple of set ups available with which to play records; something I do every day.
Regards
The problem as i see it is not everything is available on vinyl
Completely agree, Mark, and I'm not saying that vinyl accommodates all my needs. I have a pretty large collection of CDs too!
Covenant
20-02-2011, 21:27
Did you miss my post #9, Jerry? ;)
Marco.
I didn't Marco and to be honest I dont know. It may have been that I was listening to music whilst staring at album covers on my wall. Remembering the pleasure of purchase, sticking the record in a plastic sleeve, checking to see what was written on the run-off groove or the tactile feel of the velvet pad thingy I used to clean each record before playing.
Against that was the frustration when I would come home and records had been left on the carpet or a cover had become dog-eared by careless handling.
WOStantonCS100
20-02-2011, 21:27
Omg, I’ve gone all weepy with the nostalgia of it all, what with the Linus quotes and all that lovely cosey warm sound.
And the shopping, mustn’t forget that!
Oh, and the pictures; f*****g great big ones at that!
(ffs, someone pass me a tissue)
:lolsign:
I've got a tissue. Great thing about tissues is you can wipe more than just your nose with it. ;) :lolsign:
Fair play, point taken; I’ll have it anyway...............please ;)
:lolsign:
WOStantonCS100
20-02-2011, 21:34
It's all good, as they say. :)
Completely agree, Mark, and I'm not saying that vinyl accommodates all my needs. I have a pretty large collection of CDs too!
Ditto.
Another vinyl verses CD thread. Oh joy! ;0)
I mean really guys, it's all going to be landfill soon enough you we'll all be dead by then anyway.
I'll be landfill but my son is quite interested in acquiring my collection ;)
Strange you should mention that Martin. My daughter is after my collection of 78’s. :scratch:
I didn’t flog those off when the “usual” vinyl went.
Ello Alex. You sober now?
Working on not being, despite it being a school night! :)
Jac Hawk
20-02-2011, 23:10
Like Mark said, not everything is available on vinyl, when i had my vinyl collection (i'm getting teary now guys, and my bottom lip is quivering) before me ex chucked em all in a skip, i would have a copy on CD and LP as well, i would use the CD for day to day stuff, in the kitchen player and car and i would keep the vinyl for when i wanted to sit down and listen.
i think we will all agree that vinyl sounds better, but it's a very fragile medium, not only do you have to handle an LP carefully but they do wear out the more you play them, i do miss the snap crackle and pop though:(
WOStantonCS100
20-02-2011, 23:17
Strange you should mention that Martin. My daughter is after my collection of 78’s. :scratch:
I didn’t flog those off when the “usual” vinyl went.
How come you kept the 78's? What did you used to play them on?
I recently inherited boxes of these. And, I thought normal vinyl weighed a ton. Unfortunately, I've nothin' to play the things on. None of my TT's do 78 (or faster).
Someone said, that's what hell is like... there's plenty of everything you want... but, you can't have or use any of it: sports car with no wheels kind of thing. :lolsign:
WOStantonCS100
20-02-2011, 23:21
... before me ex chucked em all in a skip
That is really painful to read.
i think we will all agree that vinyl sounds better
Uh oh, now you've done it. This is probably where I go have a sit down. I can see things taking a turn after that comment. :):lol:
Hey Biff.
You’ll probably die laughing but I had a gramophone :)
I’ve got most of the collection on tape, but now I don’t have a tape machine :doh:
I didn't Marco and to be honest I dont know. It may have been that I was listening to music whilst staring at album covers on my wall. Remembering the pleasure of purchase, sticking the record in a plastic sleeve, checking to see what was written on the run-off groove or the tactile feel of the velvet pad thingy I used to clean each record before playing.
Against that was the frustration when I would come home and records had been left on the carpet or a cover had become dog-eared by careless handling.
Then, mate, with respect, that would be your fault for not looking after them properly in the first place. The "frustration" would therefore have been self-inflicted! ;)
Records need to be thoughtfully cared for, and that means putting them back into their sleeves and covers immediately after they've been played, and then stored properly on shelves.
Record condition is only a problem if you make it one through laziness and/or carelessness. Any records I've bought new are in absolutely mint condition, and the second-hand ones aren't far behind, as I'm very fussy about what I buy.
Therefore, providing that the recording quality itself is good in the first place, with a great T/T and system, all set-up optimally playing pristine records, you're guaranteed of a superb sound (way better than anything I've heard so far from digital) - simples!
Welcome to my world :cool:
Marco.
Spectral Morn
21-02-2011, 00:59
Then, mate, with respect, that would be your fault for not looking after them properly in the first place. The "frustration" would therefore have been self-inflicted! ;)
Records need to be thoughtfully cared for, and that means putting them back into their sleeves and covers immediately after they've been played, and then stored properly on shelves.
Record condition is only a problem if you make it one through laziness and/or carelessness. Any records I've bought new are in absolutely mint condition, and the second-hand ones aren't far behind, as I'm very fussy about what I buy.
Therefore, providing that the recording quality itself is good in the first place, with a great T/T and system, all set-up optimally playing pristine records, you're guaranteed of a superb sound (way better than anything I've heard so far from digital) - simples!
Welcome to my world :cool:
Marco.
and mine :cool:
Regards D S D L
Thing Fish
21-02-2011, 07:55
I've got records from the 60s that play as good today as they did then. That's over 40 years so far.
Most of the music I listen too is not available on vinyl.
Whilst I got my digital system playing at an extremly high level. I just know as soon as I get the Salvation and compare it with my digital based system I will start to get frustrated with digital again.
With regards to the relative qualities of Vinyl vs CD vs File based, I think we're all big enough boys now to make our own decision...
I have a mixture but I switched to CD in the mid 80's, when CD's were strangely 50% more than vinyl, and finally converted to FLAC based about 2 years ago.
Now the cynic in me can come out, the music industry has been pushing Vinyl recently, it's the one form of media they can control. CD's are half the price of vinyl, so if you're the sort of person who enjoys a wide selection of music, and a large collection, vinyl is a very expensive route.
Lets take an example of a fairly common recent release, The Arcade Fire have now released a FLAC version of 'Suburbs' for download at £3.50 (their own site), the CD is £5.99 (same price for the mp3 idiots too), and the best price I can find the LP for is £13.54...so nearly £10 extra for a bit of plastic and a cardboard sleeve...mmmm someone's having a laugh at the vinyl enthusiast's expense. :steam:
Obviously for some people the relative costs are not an issue, perhaps those people are wealthy enough to hire a private DJ to flip the albums over between sides too...only joking chaps! ;)
One additional point is that I can now play the very same FLAC files on all devices in my house, and all portable ones too, and file based playing is still evolving, it will only improve. LP playback has evolved about as far as it can go, and in no way could be described as future proof :)
But I'm still keeping my turntable, I've got over 1k 'legacy' plastic things that need a means of reproduction :lolsign:
With regards to the relative qualities of Vinyl vs CD vs File based, I think we're all big enough boys now to make our own decision...
That's it exactly, Will. Many of us have multiple sources and use them on a daily basis. There's simply no need for a format war.
Format wars are silly I just want to hear good music no matter where it comes from
That's it exactly, Will. Many of us have multiple sources and use them on a daily basis. there's simply no need for a format war.
Indeed Martin... :)
I've a feeling that the music industry is taking the proverbial with regard to the cost of vinyl, they're trying to push it as 'reassuringly expensive', and exclusive. We're all old enough to remember when it was the other way round with LPs & CD's, OK the economies of scale come in here, but not to the extent reflected in the relative costs of the different mediums.
One other small gripe is that for a period of time during the 90s and early 00's, the norm was for a band to release an album of around 60mins in length for the CD market, now were back down to whatever will fit on a single Vinyl album, so it's back to 40mins again..."the lazy good for nothing work shy fops!" :steam:
The only reason I can think of is that there are few LP presses remaining in the world and their running costs must be higher now.
The only reason I can think of is that there are few LP presses remaining in the world and their running costs must be higher now.
...or they're exploiting the niche market!!! ;)
Particularly with popular releases such as 'the Arcade Fire', if it was some obscure artist I could understand, but not with the worldwide volumes a release like that would require.
From my experiences in engineering and retail, most prices are set by what the market will stand, not what the production costs were :eyebrows:
Perhaps I'm too cynical :)
Format wars are silly I just want to hear good music no matter where it comes from
Ditto! Not only are they silly, but they're generally started by those with a hidden agenda (either commerical or personal) who've likely never heard recorded music at its best on any format, hence their often ridiculing of the other formats which don't fit in neatly with their belief system and/or bias, in order to justify their position and insecurity.
Witness in that respect, for example, the discussions which take place on the HDD forum :rolleyes:
Also, it's my belief that the most genuine music lovers are also those whose system contains multiple sources, quite simply because not all good music is available on the one format, therefore having a streaming device, CDP or T/T alone, is simply not enough.
In due course I will add a streaming device to my system, giving me in total six different sources. Extra kudos, incidentally, is given to those who listen to music daily on a quality vintage tuner from the 1970s ;)
Marco.
As catalogued on here and with occasional "interesting" discussions with Marco (:)), I've finally come to the decision that I don't give a toss what format they're on. There's no point in persuing ultimate fidelity, 'cos it just doesn't exist unless you have a different system amd room for every recording made, matched exactly to the acoustics of the mastering suite - ok, I'm exaggerating, but hopefully you guys get the idea ;)
I've found that my ancient singles sound best on either a vintage record player, or a smooth style cartridge at least (Stantons or vintage Shures [M3D, M55e, V15 II] anyone?), as playing them on a modern vinyl setup, let alone digital remasters of same, more often than not, just shows up how awful the original recordings often were. Even the Beatles stuff has needed huge amounts of tweaking to get the digital masters up-to-date in either red-book or hi-res formats.
I don't buy much new music, so I'm like an 80's or 90's version of Andr'e I suppose ;) I'll happily play it on whatever I have to hand. Given a good stylus, even a popular groove-grinder is safe enough as long as the music comes through.
Thing Fish
21-02-2011, 12:38
I agree format wars are silly. But still damned good fun...;)
stupinder
22-02-2011, 19:43
I got more hassle using a sqeezebox than I ever did using a turntable
Ali Tait
22-02-2011, 19:47
Agreed! Works ok now though.
Covenant
22-02-2011, 20:07
I agree format wars are silly. But still damned good fun...;)
I really didn't want this to be a format war. I probably accept that a good tt setup will out perform a streaming system although, IMHO, the gap is narrowing. I really enjoyed owning a tt although I never owned one of the highly rated ones.
What I meant was that there are a lot of things that can go wrong in terms of adjustment, setup, improvement etc that can turn a pleasurable experience into a very frustrating one. And one child or pet can cause horrendous damage in a moment. Its all too fragile for my liking.
stupinder
23-02-2011, 09:09
I really didn't want this to be a format war. I probably accept that a good tt setup will out perform a streaming system although, IMHO, the gap is narrowing. I really enjoyed owning a tt although I never owned one of the highly rated ones.
What I meant was that there are a lot of things that can go wrong in terms of adjustment, setup, improvement etc that can turn a pleasurable experience into a very frustrating one. And one child or pet can cause horrendous damage in a moment. Its all too fragile for my liking.
Same with computers to an extent. i had loads of drop outs with squeezbox, the library was never right, the ripping was a right royal PITA and then my hard drive packed up (needless to say i'd not got round to backing it up:rolleyes:)
With a simple TT set up, most of my experience is with 1210s, then its been a case of fit and forget. Of course you can fiddle and upgrade this and that, as you can with puter based audio, but it's by no means a requirement.
All that said i've just bought a roksan Xerxes and have no idea what i'm letting myself in for:)
Vinyleyes
23-02-2011, 09:35
Yeah .. I don't think this thread in any way turned into a format war ..... sure a few of us came out in support of our fave ways of listening to music but to be honest I think for most of us our format choices are determined for us by our age, music preferences, convenience factor and wallet size !
I have a smallish collection of about 1000 vinyl LP's from the late 60's, through the 70's and then into the 80's when I discovered ( and had a bit more money) celtic and world music. Now I buy an occasional so called hi fidelity pressing of a special fave album as a "present" to myself.
I still have not found anyone who can tell me exactly how I can record those albums to a hard drive or CD without losing fidelity .. ( suggestions on a postcard please :) ) so I continue to listen to my original collected and loved music on vinyl ....... And .. I will continue to do so even when I have it all safely stored on a digital medium simply because I love the whole tactile ritual involved in sitting down and listening to an album all the way through ...
When CD was introduced I saw/heard :) the con immediately .. ,, therefore I strongly resisted buying many of my exisiting albums again and for a long time relied on tapes recorded on Nakamichi tape deck. Now when travelling I content myself with MP3's on my computer ......
PLUS ... with few notable exceptions ..... for me there has not been a great deal of NEW good music made since the early 80's ... ( very subjective I know ;) shoot me !! ) Instead I discovered I loved new/old genres of music I had never had exposure to before .. Bluegrass, ethnic folk, African roots, 50's jazz.. all kinds of stuff .... therefore once again I was never in a hurry to buy CD's of the current music of the time .......... So for me it made perfect sense to stick with vinyl .... but for younger people whose musical tastes encompass mainly artistes and genres which only really came to prominence during the birth and development of the digital age .. and if they did like artistes from an age before their time then they would of course by the CD .. as the vinyl was discontinued .. so for those folks .. of course vinyl seems prehistoric and .... ohh .. soo.. much hassle.... :)............
But for all you guys here who had your vinyl .. and sold it ... OHHH ... How could you .. ............ :spank: ........... :lolsign:
Now of course ... And with respect towards my advancing years .. I am investigating how to put together a modded Squeezebox multi room capability using the finest DAC technology I can afford so that I can listen to a growing HQ digital music collection ...... as well as streamed internet radio ... BUT .. The vinyl replay system will forever remain at the heart of my music room ........ and forever in my heart ... :cool:
I’m not interested in a format war either.
What I am interested in is the merits of each medium and some non partisan information not easy to find around here on certain issues.
I am one of those people who sold all their vinyl………you can spank me later Brian :eyebrows:
It seems to me that many people approach file audio with the same attitude they might say with buying a mobile phone, ie, it’s a relatively low cost convenience method of sound reproduction. Imo this is where it all goes wrong :mental:
I was lucky. I had good advice from someone who had transferred to file audio some years ago.
Quality audio from file is not cheap and is as much hassle as starting from scratch with vinyl.
If you read these forums, it is quite apparent that getting good audio from a record playing system is far from straight forward yet most are happy to embark on the learning curve….when it comes to file audio, people start throwing their dollies out of the pram when it doesn’t all come together immediately.
If you spend £300 and ten minutes on a file based front end you can expect similar audio quality you would if you had spent the same on record deck arm and cartridge.
Its no good borrowing the household computer copying some music files on to it and then screaming if the thing crashes with your precious music on.
You wouldn’t share your record deck with the wife and kids would you? You wouldn’t take your record deck to work, or play damaged vinyl on it either.
Yep, hard drives crash, its common knowledge much like the fact that records get scratched; that’s why you back the files up and if you didn’t then you shouldn’t be messing about with file audio because you haven’t grasped even the basics. A bit like you shouldn’t be messing about with vinyl if you haven’t set the tone arm up properly; you’ll just damage the records. However, if you scratch a record badly your f****d while if you’ve backed up your file audio its not a problem if a drive crashes.
Part of the problem is many people think they know about vinyl replay coz its been around a long time and information is readily available while computer based audio is still in its infancy and a great many people not only don’t understand computers but also don’t want or cant be bothered to learn. That’s fine but you wouldn’t set off in a car for a long journey if you didn’t know how to drive would you?
Now I like learning about new stuff and yes I do fine computers frustrating, not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with them, its my lack of knowledge that is often the problem.
Many of you have invested thousands of pounds and enormous amounts of time on your vinyl playing systems; you need to do exactly the same with file based audio if you want similar quality audio.
A lot of you will never transfer, not because there is a quality problem with file audio but because you have invested so heavily in your vinyl systems that its just not viable economically. That’s fine as well, but instead of coming up with the usual convenience v quality bollocks lets have the truth…it’s not a practical economic proposition if you’ve already got thousand s of records and twenty grands worth of vinyl replay kit.
Really, we aint all stupid and the format war comments are an insult to average intelligence.
Yep vinyl may still have the edge but it’s a small margin these days and really doesn’t apply to many systems I’ve heard about on these forums. If you spent the same on a file based system you wouldn’t have any less quality audio; it may not give the sound to your particular taste but that’s an entirely different argument.
stupinder
23-02-2011, 13:25
I’m not interested in a format war either.
What I am interested in is the merits of each medium and some non partisan information not easy to find around here on certain issues.
I am one of those people who sold all their vinyl………you can spank me later Brian :eyebrows:
It seems to me that many people approach file audio with the same attitude they might say with buying a mobile phone, ie, it’s a relatively low cost convenience method of sound reproduction. Imo this is where it all goes wrong :mental:
I was lucky. I had good advice from someone who had transferred to file audio some years ago.
Quality audio from file is not cheap and is as much hassle as starting from scratch with vinyl.
If you read these forums, it is quite apparent that getting good audio from a record playing system is far from straight forward yet most are happy to embark on the learning curve….when it comes to file audio, people start throwing their dollies out of the pram when it doesn’t all come together immediately.
If you spend £300 and ten minutes on a file based front end you can expect similar audio quality you would if you had spent the same on record deck arm and cartridge.
Its no good borrowing the household computer copying some music files on to it and then screaming if the thing crashes with your precious music on.
You wouldn’t share your record deck with the wife and kids would you? You wouldn’t take your record deck to work, or play damaged vinyl on it either.
Yep, hard drives crash, its common knowledge much like the fact that records get scratched; that’s why you back the files up and if you didn’t then you shouldn’t be messing about with file audio because you haven’t grasped even the basics. A bit like you shouldn’t be messing about with vinyl if you haven’t set the tone arm up properly; you’ll just damage the records. However, if you scratch a record badly your f****d while if you’ve backed up your file audio its not a problem if a drive crashes.
Part of the problem is many people think they know about vinyl replay coz its been around a long time and information is readily available while computer based audio is still in its infancy and a great many people not only don’t understand computers but also don’t want or cant be bothered to learn. That’s fine but you wouldn’t set off in a car for a long journey if you didn’t know how to drive would you?
Now I like learning about new stuff and yes I do fine computers frustrating, not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with them, its my lack of knowledge that is often the problem.
Many of you have invested thousands of pounds and enormous amounts of time on your vinyl playing systems; you need to do exactly the same with file based audio if you want similar quality audio.
A lot of you will never transfer, not because there is a quality problem with file audio but because you have invested so heavily in your vinyl systems that its just not viable economically. That’s fine as well, but instead of coming up with the usual convenience v quality bollocks lets have the truth…it’s not a practical economic proposition if you’ve already got thousand s of records and twenty grands worth of vinyl replay kit.
Really, we aint all stupid and the format war comments are an insult to average intelligence.
Yep vinyl may still have the edge but it’s a small margin these days and really doesn’t apply to many systems I’ve heard about on these forums. If you spent the same on a file based system you wouldn’t have any less quality audio; it may not give the sound to your particular taste but that’s an entirely different argument.
Surely feeding zeros and ones, from whatever source, into the Dac of your choice is going to work just fine. Don't see why you'd need a dedicated computer really, it will either feed the zeros and ones or it won't. That's my understanding anyway. I am more than happy to be correcte in the errors of my ways;)
A bit like me saying surely as long as the record goes round and round and the needle's in the groove everything will be fine ;)
Surely feeding zeros and ones, from whatever source, into the Dac of your choice is going to work just fine. Don't see why you'd need a dedicated computer really, it will either feed the zeros and ones or it won't. That's my understanding anyway. I am more than happy to be correcte in the errors of my ways;)
All the ones, all the zeroes, at the right time, without additional interference, without inadvertently transcoding...etc. etc. etc.
As John states it's subject to the same rigour as any other Hi Fi source ;)
Vinyleyes
23-02-2011, 14:27
Ok folks .... I am giving up my vinyl !!! ,,,, :mental: ,,, The ones and zeros are going to take over .. I am going to try to find a space in my heart for them ... BUT ... First ..... I need to get those pesky, horrible, nuisancy vinyl things copied to a digital domain with the HIGHEST POSSIBLE TRANSFER QUALITY AND STORAGE OF INFORMATION ............ Just tell me what to do and I will not bother this thread anymore .... ;) ... :cool:
stupinder
23-02-2011, 14:49
Get something bit perfect out of the puter and into a Dac you like and that should suffice i'd have thought. No need for a dedicated computer (though mine is) and the like....
Clearly i'm not an expert on all this and wasn't looking to be contentious.
The point I was making in my original post is that computer based audio is not the the hassle free panacea that folk like to pretend it is.
Unfortunately Brian to my knowledge there isn’t a satisfactory way of doing this. If there was I would have kept my vinyl.
So, don’t chuck the vinyl out or the deck etc.
But, start learning about file based audio and for future music purchases get CD or file as well as a record if you must.
Good quality CD’s are dirt cheap these days; I’m talking less than postage prices second hand.
Once you have the CD’s burnt to a hard drive in WAV (and backed up) you’re set.
If you have a spare laptop then set it aside for music only and start experimenting.
A cheap Dac is fine to start with and once you’ve discovered whether file audio is or isn’t for you then will be the time to invest in hi res playback options and a better Dac.
Regarding Logitech Touch and similar, I would wait a while, these players while very good are still in their infancy.
I would be looking to a purpose built music server for the long term. Something you can upgrade without chucking the lot out.
Hypnotoad
23-02-2011, 15:10
I started with Cd's and having files from my computer streaming into my receiver, I got a turntable and wondered if it could sound as good.
That was two years ago, I have never looked back, my Cd player gathers dust.
I just love the sound of vinyl, maybe it's a nostalgia thing, maybe it's mental illness on my part. But choosing a record, they mostly have great artwork too, putting it on, it's so enjoyable and relaxing to sit back and listen.
When I listened to Cd's I almost never had the relaxing experience, they sounded good but there seemed something missing, pops and clicks some smart people say. But that's not it, it's like the soul of the music is on the vinyl.
Last night I was listening to Beethoven Symphonies that were in a Deutsche Grammophon boxed set I picked up for $3.99, there are eight records and all look and sound as new. I didn't even think I liked Beethoven but it was intriguing listening to them for a change than the usual stuff I have.
Anyway that's my opinion, and that's what I like. To each his own.
They do sound different Phillip, I’m the first to admit it.
If I used my Hi Fi to listen to classical music I might have stayed with vinyl. Fact is I can’t hack classical music on Hi FI, live or nothing for me in general.
So the type of music one listens to has an influence I believe.
Some people just don’t like digitally produced music and I can accept this as well. It does have its own character.
What I have a few problems with is people who listen to digitally produced music stating that the quality is better once it has been pressed on vinyl. How can this be? :scratch:
I listen to just about anything except classical on my stereo, modern pop, hip hop, old progressive, I don’t have a particular genre preference. If I like it that’s good enough.
But, the vast majority of it is digitally produced now even if it wasn’t in its original from.
I found the back ground blackness of digital very disconcerting at first, now I like it.
I like my music fairly “up front” because that’s how I hear it in real life and digital can do that. If you like smooth soft presentation then it can be done with digital but its not the “natural” sound digital or real sound imo.
But, what I’m talking about is the quality of replay, the ability of the stereo to reproduce what on the medium, not necessarily an easy to listen to or comfortable sound.
File or CD can do this as well as vinyl imo. Whether your ears like it is something else.
Filterlab
23-02-2011, 16:13
I like all formats, and all if done properly can sound amazing. I used to prefer digital to analogue, but then I heard Marco's Technics 1210 at Scalford Hall and it knocked me sideways. It showed me that I actually have no preference nowadays and I simply like good quality sound. Whether it comes from bytes or grooves, so be it.
There is a lot of kerfuffle in setting up a turntable to perfection, whereas computer based audio is very simple (well, for an IT administrator like me anyway) and so is CD. But some may find it the other way round. Either way, there's good sound to be had from whichever one prefers.
Something I will say though; there's a lot of potential misnomers involved with the naming convention of some products. I find that the very name 'Squeezebox' puts me off ever buying one (not that I need one) as it suggests that it uses a form of lossy compression. I know that it doesn't, but that knowledge makes no difference. :)
Covenant
23-02-2011, 17:20
Marco's system at Scalford was too loud and the choice of music, if he doesn't mind me saying was....challenging.
I've always thought the name Squeezebox was nice and friendly.
Lol, Jerry - you must've been in when we were playing Rammstein, or some other mad shit, at 'concert levels'! :eyebrows:
Rob was there nearly all day, so got a proper chance to hear the Techy (and the rest of the system) at lower levels with all genres of music, some rather more 'sedate' than perhaps you heard.
That's the trouble with these shows, if the music being played isn't to your taste when you arrive in a particular room, it can adversely (and somewhat unfairly) skew your opinion of the demo.....
Do pop along to our room this year, and if the music is too loud or not to your taste, come up and tell me, and I'll gladly offer you our complementary pipe & slippers and play some Val Doonican nice and quietly, while you have a wee nap! :ner: :lol:
;)
Marco.
P.S It also wasn't just my system. There was equipment belonging to others from AoS, and also a pair of speakers borrowed from Guy Sergeant.
Covenant
24-02-2011, 07:59
A nice bit of Pink Floyd or Yes with do nice thank you Marco. (Now I am really showing my age!)
No worries, Jerry - I'm sure we can sort something out :)
Marco.
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