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Beechwoods
16-08-2008, 19:30
Some time ago I posted a thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=877) asking for recommendations for a good budget turntable and the almost immediate and unanimous response was to find a Golding Lenco GL-75 rim-drive, and to put some effort into replinthing it, and improving / replacing the tonearm.

It seemed like a fun project and not long after I got hold of a (perhaps slightly overpriced) turntable off eBay for slightly shy of £50. A week or so later it arrived.

My plan is to post irregular updates for my own amusement as much as anything, and to invite thoughts ideas and assistance along the way. Having 2 kids under 3, a 9-5 and a wife who doesn't wish to become an audio-widow it's going to take some time, but that's OK, because it's better to go slow and get right, than rush and repeat :)

So here's 'Day 1' : The Bare Bones.

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0831_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0833_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0834_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0835_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0836_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0837_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0838_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0839_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0840_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0841_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0842_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0843_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0845_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0847_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0848_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0849_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0850_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day1_Receipt/IMG_0851_s.jpg

Beechwoods
16-08-2008, 19:33
Since these pictures were taken I've assembled the stock tonearm, and now am thinking about powering it up. Which brings me onto my first question: do the motors on these things take 240v AC directly, or do I need a step-down transformer? The notes on the top of the motor wiring assembly suggest 240v in is OK, but I figure the wires look old so should be replaced anyway...

PS. Hope folks like my temporary plinth. £3 from the local hardware store :)

Prince of Darkness
16-08-2008, 19:39
You will have no problem running direct from 240V mains.:)

Your temporary plinth is probably better than the original.:lolsign:

Cotlake
16-08-2008, 20:04
Yep, it's 240v. See the 50~ symbol. You also have the metal idler wheel which is apparently favoured over the later plastic wheel although Technical & General (spares suppliers) challenge that generally held view.
All the moving parts look unworn. I think you should be OK.

Keep us informed. If I can help, remember I'm only 15 minutes away :)

Beechwoods
16-08-2008, 20:16
Thanks Greg, and Kevin. I was pleased that it seemed to be in pretty good shape. It spins really nicely, no noise when I spin it, and all the mechanics move smoothly. The rubber V joint on the tonearm looks slightly saggy so looks to have had it's day. I'm inclined to give it a go until I get as far as considering a new tonearm. It has no cartridge at the moment anyway.

So next job is replace the mains wiring and fire it up. The real test will be seeing it it runs true to speed... Lenco Lovers has strobe cards so I'm looking forward to trying that out :)

Cotlake
16-08-2008, 20:27
Running to speed will be no problem. Using a strobe disc, if you do find it is out, and mains supply variation will effect this, you can remove the stepped plate for speed selection and convert it to a variable speed slider. Basically you change it from fixed speed position selection into a variable option using the control arm to select exactly correct speed. Like the Garrard decks, this may need tweaking according to the time of day and the local power demand on your mains at the time. Solution is probably a regulated power supply but my experience with my 401 is these don't seem to work too well for various reasons and the occasional manual adjustment is no big deal. You'll find the significant time to make adjustment is when Eastenders finishes when everyone puts the kettle on. What does that say about the UK?

Beechwoods
16-08-2008, 20:47
So is the speed determined by a factor of voltage and frequency rather than frequency alone? I guess that voltage could affect the torque developed, but I flunked 'A' level physics!

Primalsea
16-08-2008, 21:48
You'll find the significant time to make adjustment is when Eastenders finishes when everyone puts the kettle on. What does that say about the UK?

Today at around 1:30pm the mains was 246V @ 2.5% THD, a few minutes later it had risen to 247V.

I don't think there was anything on telly to account for that, I can only imagine what its like during prime time telly.

Cotlake
16-08-2008, 21:57
Prime time telly.......exactly!

The new BBC 'Britain from above' or whatever it is called put that all in perspective. Watch it and learn :)

Primalsea
17-08-2008, 10:25
Yeah, whats happened to the BBC. They came under fire a while ago and actually started to make some interesting TV but that has seemed to have ended.

More often than not they seem to get it wrong. Remember the BBC's advert with the giant flying head made up of smaller heads that would detach and then reform again with the large one. That was fairly disturbing and it got many complaints.

Anyway, probably the best thing you can do with the Lenco is to strip it down and throughly clean and oil it.

John
17-08-2008, 12:53
Looks in good condiction. Hope you have fun with it.
Are you going to keep the arm or go for something better amd what are your thoughts so far around plinth design

Beechwoods
17-08-2008, 15:09
Hi John :) I think an arm swap is more than likely, but as it stands I've no real thoughts on what to swap it with. I am going to give the stock arm a go, at least to get me up and running, but I know I can do better. There is loads of choice, particularly if I go with one mounted away from the base of the original Lenco arm... obviously allows for playing with alternative arm geometry.

The plinth is the bit I'm really looking forward to. I'm thinking of building up a wooden deck with quite thin slices, alternating woods, possibly an acrylic layer as a counterpoint to the wood, and possibly some ballast for weight. I have some victorian 8" sq clay paving slabs that might make an appearance! Working with thinner wood should be easier, and the thinness should help avoid resonances building up, but I'm conscious that more thin slices means more glue and that may affect it's sound properties adversely. I'm still reading about plinth design and have yet to reach any firm conclusions, mind...

Cotlake
17-08-2008, 18:31
IMO, Slate is the way to go for your plinth but it is relatively expensive. Thereafter a CLD (constrained layer damping) multi layer as you describe is very good. The amount and the variety on layers is the key rather than the glue unless you intend to use something really viscous like silicon rubber glue. With PVA you'll be fine mixing and matching and from what I can tell, the more layers and the denser it is the better. Remember not to fix the TT right through the layers or introduce any fixing through them other than glue. That destroys the benefits of the CLD approach.

Many have had good results with this type of plinth however I'll add that those who have later moved onto Slate would never go back, myself and Nick (Lurcher) being just two of many.

Beechwoods
17-08-2008, 18:57
My ideal plinth would be a Slatedeck. They are beautiful and as an inert mass they have an obvious edge over wood, but cost-wise it's prohibitive. Wood is also something I can work with myself, so it fulfills the 'must be fun' component of this project :) Thanks for your comments re. glue. It sounds like my instincts are right and it means I'll be able to build things up slowly and see what works.

I haven't thought yet about how to attach the TT to the plinth, but from your notes I guess it should just attach to the top layer, to avoid transmitting vibrations through the layers destroying the damping affects of the 'laminated' approach...?

Cotlake
17-08-2008, 19:57
Yep, you've got that right. Good luck!

Retro Audio
18-08-2008, 11:03
Hi, with the GL-75 I think you have the basis of an interesting and worthwhile project. I’ve had two of these, the first bought new from Comet way back in the seventies, this one was returned after the first weekend, the table was OK but the arm was really quite poor, the rubber bits were saggy as new and the head shell was poorly aligned, the supplied G800 cartridge was not up to much either!

My second GL-75 reintroduced me to vinyl after a longish break, the previous table being an LP-12 with SME 2 which I never got on with. This 75 I found in the back of a cupboard at work, I junked the plinth, suspension and arm. A wee bit of hacksaw work and a block of aluminum produced an arm mount for a Rega RB-250. The plinth was an off cut of low density chip board which sat on spur shelving via some hard rubber feet.

I installed a cheep Grado cartridge, I had no pre-amp at the time so made up some rough circuit boards for a couple of Hitachi SIL RIAA amp chips with a couple of Farnell double ended PSU’s and fed that lot into a Beard P100 driving Quad 57’s, stacked 57’s and later Magnepan MG2’s. It all sounded great and was fun to do!

The only real problem will be sorting the arm mount out, I used half inch aluminum and I had to get the large hole for the Rega done for me, cutting the clearance on the 75 was also a faf but not too big a deal and well worth the effort.

Speed will not be a problem, the 75 has a low torque synchronous motor and the grid still supplies a reasonably stable frequency so don’t worry about it.

Have fun,

Nigel.

John
26-08-2008, 21:20
I have a friend who got a slate plinth cut from a stone masons and also heard someone going to a sink stone specialist I think WElsh blue looks great bt there are other materials worth considering that be cheaper you mainly need to ensure its has a high density also check to see how it asborbs sound if you ever consider going down this route Think my friend plinth cost him £250 and it sounds great.
I think what is really good with this is have all that fun cutiing glueing etc and as and if funds become more available take it onto another level.
I should get my super scout master chassis and rim drive in 2 weeks so will update as and when that comes together. Managed to sell my parts to VPI HW19 I no longer need. so no turntable until this I get the new parts

Retro Audio
31-08-2008, 18:58
Seriously I would not get too hung up on this mass thing! There is a misunderstanding that chucking mass at a problem will solve the problem, this is so untrue! Mass and energy are one and the same thing, E=MC2 remember? OK in an amplifier it’s normally good to increase the “mass” with big reservoir capacitors, a bit like the flywheel component in a “normal” car! That’s because you want to use this extra stored energy to fill in for what is not actually available form the engine on an instantaneous basis.
However with loudspeakers and turntables (excluding the platter, perhaps?) the situation is somewhat different! We are looking to get rid of unwanted energy as fast as possible and adding mass only increases energy in the system, in effect the exact opposite of what we think we are going to achieve!
There are effectively only two ways of getting rid of unwanted energy, stopping it dead! Or dissipating it as quickly as possible. The fist solution requires that we hit the problem with mass, lot’s of mass, the amount of mass required to consummate this act is? Infinite! This is unachievable other than in states of non-ordinary reality! The second way is achievable by selecting materials that are light and stiff, in this case less really is more!
All this may seem counter intuitive but it’s not really, the proof of this pudding is quite evident after a couple of mouthfuls!
The parallels with other areas of performance are quite revealing, like you would not put heavy wheels on a car to make it “stick” to the road? No you use the lightest possible wheels and tires, if you race you might even inflate those tires with nitrogen to keep the “unsprung” mass/energy as low as possible so it’s easy for the suspension to handle i.e. keep the unwanted energy as low as possible!! In this case the energy fed back from the road or track!
So I’m strongly inclined to avoid high mass solutions period! Ok slate plinths do look very cool, but they are expensive and are almost certainly not the rout to audio nirvana!

Regards,

Nigel.

lurcher
31-08-2008, 20:33
So I’m strongly inclined to avoid high mass solutions period! Ok slate plinths do look very cool, but they are expensive and are almost certainly not the rout to audio nirvana!

Well, each to his own, but I suspect from what you have written, that your views are almost certainly not based on direct experence?

Beechwoods
31-08-2008, 20:54
This is certainly an interesting line of discussion. Since I am a novice in the area of plinth design I'm keen to understand the different schools of thought here. I'd have thought that density were important, rigidity and strength. Resistance to vibration, and resistance to resonance (hence laminate construction). Slate is laminar also so I'd say that that contributes to it's benefits in plinth construction, along with it's density, as much as mass.

I guess there are two paths you can go down in terms of turntable plinths. The one, sprung, relies upon the dissipation of energy to avoid colouration of the sound, but at the expense of that lost energy which otherwise might have been focussed upon sound reproduction.

The second path is to present an immovable and non-resonant mass to the turntable, allowing as much energy as possible to focus upon moving the coils in the cartridge. My gut says that getting the latter approach right is more tricky than achieving non-resonant isolation through damping.

I'd never considered the base physics outlined by Nigel though. I need to give it more thought.

Cotlake
31-08-2008, 20:59
Hi Nigel,

Hmmm, in my view mostly what you have written, complete with illogical and irrelevant analogies on this is I'm afraid rubbish!

By way of example, compare the failed performance of lightweight TT supports from Lorricraft for Garrard decks with the success of high mass and also CLD (Constrained Layer Dampening) plinths. Remember we are only talking idler drive and direct drive TT's here. The proof of the pudding (as you say) is all the significant numbers of people who have re-discovered these old decks by using these high mass mounting methods. The old method was exactly the light support option that failed to sink energy and so ID and DD TT's gained the reputation of being rumble noisey, became unpopular in the market, followed by the rise of belt drive options culminating in the Linn LP bullshit 12.

ID and DD TT's can work if mounted correctly. There is good evidence that Slate out performs the high mass wood options even with the CLD. This is about the re-discovery of old equipment which, when mounted properly (not as they were originally marketed) can challenge in performance many expensive modern TT products. Take a Goldring Lenco which can be bought secondhand for about three and sixpence and slot it into a DIY high mass plinth that costs a similar amount to make. Hook up a reasonable arm and cartridge and for less than £450 you can have a TT that out performs a current £3000 (maybe more) deck. Now it may not have the modern visual design aesthetic but can be attractive nevertheless in a retro kind of way.

I've played with Lenco's and Garrard 401. I currently use my Garrard in Slate. It well out performs my previous Michell GyrOrbe (upgraded Gyro) with HR PSU by a significant margin. That actually is a bargain in comparison with the price of the Michell kit. Slate might appear expensive when you consider you are buying just a cut piece of stone, but when you think of it as a component part of a TT, it actually is bloody cheap.

Realise this is all about getting the ID and DD TT to work properly. Most modern TT's on the market are flawed because they are external motor rubber band driven. That makes design and production nice and cheap but compromises sound performance. Rubber bands stretch so you don't have the speed precission that makes the music live and acute, not to mention the subtleties on attack on notes or decay on notes.

If you want to explore a reasonably priced approach to good analogue sound reproduction and don't mind being a bit retro, this is the way to go. If you want the equivalent performance from a new production, be prepared to dig very deep into your wallet.

Best wishes,

Greg

Retro Audio
31-08-2008, 21:38
Well, each to his own, but I suspect from what you have written, that your views are almost certainly not based on direct experence?

I do not have anything else than direct experience to go upon really, same as anyone else. But I do try to balance “my map” and the actual territory so as not to fall off any cliffs. What I have said is more or less true in terms of a modern map of the world. I do not have any axes to grind regarding products Hi Fi or otherwise!
Frankly I could not care less what is the better or less better turntable, amplifier or loudspeaker but I am very interested as to how it became the best or worst and more so why people think it to be so.
One thing that is really weird is…How people come to point where they actually believe in something…really believe…like in god or LP12’s or SL1210’s without any semblance of evidence. In the subjective world it is hard to differentiate between what is and what is not and this is the nature of the human condition.
Newton’s understanding of mass and energy was of considerable value, and on an astronomical scale continues to be so but things have moved on.
Sorry for the bullshit but I think it’s important to…how do we say?...keep an open mind?
Shure I’ve heard most Hi Fi products on offer from the past 30 years or so…and well here we all are still discussing their various virtues or otherwise!
Viewing this forum one might be forgiven for thinking that things have come full circle without gaining any actual knowledge from the trip, no criticism just an observation!

Best,

Nigel.

Cotlake
31-08-2008, 22:17
Hi Nigel,

You claim direct experience but fail to evidence that.

You have not presented a foundation from which we can explore your view. Your reply says absolutely nothing about the subject and adds nothing to the discussion. You use lots of words which actually say nothing. The consequence is we all waste time reading it.

Please come up with something worth responding to.

Best wishes,

Greg

lurcher
31-08-2008, 22:27
Oh, well, if thats what you believe, ok, keep reading the Korzybski.

BTW, the reason that nitrogen is used in tyres is nothing to do with mass, but for better pressure stability.

lexi
03-10-2008, 19:35
I would say Nigels last post is pretty much spot on as far as I see it.

Mike
03-10-2008, 19:49
I would say Nigels last post is pretty much spot on as far as I see it.

Err.. okey dokey :nocomment:

Marco
03-10-2008, 20:03
LOL. 'Alternative' opinions are always welcome :)

Lexi, perhaps you would expand a little?

Marco.

lexi
04-10-2008, 09:54
LOL. 'Alternative' opinions are always welcome :)

Lexi, perhaps you would expand a little?

Marco.

I wont elaborate. I am just on the forum and I don`t wish to start by disagreeing with a lot that has been said regarding rubber bands and musical sympathys for one.......oops maybe I just did:).

Nigels parable with religion is correct. Hi Fi gear is like a mini religion with people believing many things. Some have an axe to grind some have more money than sense and some look for meaning and a vehicle.

In another 20 yrs time people may get a good laugh at Lencos and Garrards being brought down from the loft and picked up from junk shops to be given layered plinths in search of musical excellence.

Don`t get me wrong it`s all great fun and so it should be but I wonder if it is another Blu Tack on headshells with Linn felt mats thrown in.

Marco
04-10-2008, 10:42
Hi Lexi,

Your comments, whatever they are, are most welcome so please don't be afraid to say what you think even if it's contrary to the majority of opinion. We don't stifle discussion here just because it's deemed as 'heretical'! :)

I'm only passionate about what I use because to my ears (and I analyse things VERY thoroughly) it represents the best I've heard at the sort of prices I would pay for hi-fi. I've got over 25 years of hi-fi experience and in that time I've been exposed to and used all manner of kit so my opinions are based on direct experience and not swayed by any form of 'religion'.

I don't care what 'badge' hi-fi equipment has or which 'school of audio' it represents - just what sounds superb to my ears; and this is the way it will always be :smoking:

Marco.

lexi
04-10-2008, 12:35
Nice post and thanks for the warmth of your words.

Marco
04-10-2008, 12:48
No problem. It's what we're about on AOS :)

Marco.

Retro Audio
11-10-2008, 20:24
No problem. It's what we're about on AOS :)

Marco.


Quite!

Despite the responses to my posts on Beechwoods thread I still stand against Mass as a Mantra! Why? Because experience has shown that cutting mass, especially at the front end of the audio play back chain, results in great gains in musicality, most noticeable in the areas of pace, rhythm and timing, PRAT!
It may well be worth noting if not obvious that sufficient moving/rotational mass is required (coupled with small motor) to provide a reasonably constant play back speed. Absolute speed is not all that important but speed change is, direct drive does not solve this problem at all, far from it!
No negative criticism of the Thechnics SL1200 intended at all here, it’s a great turntable as it comes from the factory.
Regarding Korzybsky…Well if international bankers and world leaders had STARTED to read Science and Sanity we may not be in the truly awful and unsane situation that we seemingly are!

Best,

Nigel.

Cotlake
11-10-2008, 21:10
Ok Nigel,

Rather than speaking in riddles, it would be good if you can expose detail on your kit which might justify what you have said. You've expressed an opinion without supporting it with any evidence, and that includes all the points you've raised in your post. In contrast I challenge your perception that PRAT will be better with less mass at the input stage. My experience is exactly the opposite. Your comments on speed control are nothing more than your opinion. Please justify what you have said.

Please understand this is all about users getting the best from their systems. Most of the time we're not interested in the physics, but rather the sound we get. Your post is a potential fly in the ointment yet you offer no explainations to support what you have said. Unless you come back and justify what you have posted, I'm sure most of us will cast your opinion aside. If you have something serious to contribute, please come back with a sensible and seriously evidenced reply.....you know what I mean :)

Best wishes,

Greg

Retro Audio
23-10-2008, 11:26
Leaving aside differences of opinion, for the time being at least! In the context of this thread, getting a GL75 up and running from scratch and assuming funds to be quite finite? I would have thought it best to first sort the table with a nice arm and PU then initially this may be used sat in anything really that keeps it out of harms way and ponder what to ultimately use as a plinth whilst listening to the prototype. I’ve started this process with GL75 and later 401 fixed onto a lump of scrap wood which worked just fine for starters and cost nothing. One step up from this was to sit the wood onto a Sound Org wall table this works well and may offer a good medium term solution before considering exotic and expensive plinths.

For the record I am using a Rega Planar 3 with Linn Klyde and Croft Super Micro (Ortofon transformer step up) or Naim 32.5 Snaps for disc eq/pre-amp. Naim 110 or Denon PMA-250 SE amplifier with Cambridge R40 speakers.

The Rega is OK for what it is! Certainly not the best in the world but reliable and consistent. The 250 or 300 arms are I think excellent, I’ve used these on lots of tables since they came out with all sorts of PU’s from Grado’s to Koetsu’s with great results!

The performance of the Rega is massively enhanced if used on its dedicated three point wall stand!

Tip-Top.

Beechwoods
25-10-2008, 08:33
It's certainly been interesting reading the different views on plinth design and I will be getting on with that part of the project over the next few months. I plan on going for a sandwich form heavy plinth. and I hope to use all reclaimed materials from the Bristol Wood Recycling Project http://www.bwrp.org.uk/.

In the meantime I would really value thoughts from folk here on good arm / cart / stylus combinations. I want something that would work with the existing Lenco arm fixings in the first case. and something that wont cost more than the TT itself. Definitely less than £100. Second hand is great for the arm. I guess used carts / styli are a bit hit and miss...

Thanks everyone for your help :)

Mike
25-10-2008, 15:30
I want something that would work with the existing Lenco arm fixings in the first case. and something that wont cost more than the TT itself. Definitely less than £100.

Err... Oh!

There ain't that many arms around that will be a perfect match for the existing Lenco arm mount. There are problems with effective length and VTA if I remember correctly. :scratch:

The place to ask is undoubtedly the Lenco Lovers forum...

Beechwoods
25-10-2008, 16:10
:stupid: You mean here: http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=914 :doh:

Mike
25-10-2008, 17:49
Yep... That's the place to be for all things Lenco. :)

Prince of Darkness
26-10-2008, 08:04
The Decca Unipivots are usually considered a good match.:)

John
26-10-2008, 20:09
Think sandwich plinth will be good, Maple is usually considered really good.

Beechwoods
26-10-2008, 20:31
I'm thinking Beech and Maple. I considered Ash as well, but it seems to be noted for it's sustain qualities in manufacture of guitars so maybe it's not such a good idea!

Hopefully I'll be able to find the quality and wood I want from the BWRP - that way it'll have some history which would be nice. We will see.

Primalsea
26-10-2008, 20:32
Funk Firm use lightweight chassis and platters and when I heard it I was very impressed. It certainly seemed balanced and pacey (for lack of a better word). But the whole system is based on the same philosophy, everything is lightweight. I don't believe you can mix heavy and light constructions together as it has never worked for me and others have also said the same. Personally I went down the heavy route but this was determined but the fact I have a 401 which is a heavy piece of kit.

Beechwoods, I have sent you a PM as I will be changing my plinth soon.

Prince of Darkness
27-10-2008, 08:08
I'm thinking Beech and Maple. I considered Ash as well, but it seems to be noted for it's sustain qualities in manufacture of guitars so maybe it's not such a good idea!



I should have said Maple was more noted for its sustain in guitars (think Gibson Les Paul) than Ash (Fender). The Les Paul has a body constructed from Mahogany with a Maple cap added specifically to improve sustain.

lexi
03-11-2008, 17:54
If the thought of glue making a layered plinth too hard, then might I suggest using Sikaflex to bond the wood together. This is a flexible Polyurethane that cures to very stiff rubber.

I would imagine it`s damping properties to be better than glue. It could also be sanwiched in such a way to provide a band of the actual Sika to show a coloured layer in the thickness that you choose. Black is very nice against natural woods. Masking tape is used on either wood surface and the excess squeezed out. Scrape off with a wet spatula and then tool in with wet finger flush. Pull tapes off and check or tool more with wet finger very carefully..............brilliant stuff and indestructable.

Beechwoods
14-11-2008, 22:37
Redid the mains wiring into the Lenco this evening and powered it up for the first time. While I've not checked the speed it spins silently, no platter noise. Very pleased. Also replaced the iffy looking audio cables off the distribution block (left the tonearm wiring because it looked ok).

I got myself an old Shure SM55e cartridge / stylus a week or so ago.

Tomorrow I try playback.

Beechwoods
15-11-2008, 13:48
Plugged it in. Rigged up an earth return. Turned it on and lowered the tonearm. Silence. For a moment. Then the song started ('Killing Me Softly' by Roberta Flack).

:stalks: :stalks: :stalks: :stalks:

Jesus!

This deck is so quiet, and that's when it's stuck in a plastic container in lieu of a plinth! Playback is great, I just want to listen to more vinyl to see how it performs! Plinth and tweakerage next :)

John
15-11-2008, 14:17
great to hear its up and running can u add some pics soon

Beechwoods
29-11-2008, 18:51
Productive day today. My plinth is now 75% done. Paul (Primalsea) gave me his old 401 plinth now he's upgraded to a slatedeck and that has given me the basis of my own plinth. Rather than cut away at and then add an extra layer to the 401 plinth to allow for the different shape of the L75 cutout I tracked down the same monolithic beechwood chopping board that was the surface of Paul's plinth and cut that to shape using the 'official' Lenco Lovers template. Two hours of jigsawing later and I have a Lenco shaped cutout... and the TT fits excellently. The base from Paul's plinth goes on tomorrow. Thereafter, pictures.

I'm not 100% sure I've got the cartridge set up properly though. It follows the Lenco recommended stylus path, and the common Baerwald protractor. Most music sounds great, but a couple of albums I have distort in the left channel; like the weight or geometry is wrong. One of these has only been played a couple of times. Any thoughts?

John
29-11-2008, 20:31
Butcher block will make a great plinth
Getting the Cartridge right can be a findly process its worth trying a few times just in case its alignment issue

Primalsea
29-11-2008, 21:19
Thats super that its coming along nicely. As for the cartridge just check that you got the nul points correct but to be honest there is a bit of slack in this. Alignment doesn't get rid of tracing distortion it just minimalises it on particular areas of the record. Different alignments reduce distortion in different places.

Check that the cartridge is level with the platter and that the platter itself is horizontal using a spritlevel, this is quite important as it effects antiskate.

Some records can have real bad sibilance try dampening the headshell with a scaletrix tire or something similar to see if this is your problem here.

And wheres the pics damn it!!

The Grand Wazoo
30-11-2008, 01:05
I'm thinking Beech and Maple. I considered Ash as well, but it seems to be noted for it's sustain qualities in manufacture of guitars so maybe it's not such a good idea!

Hopefully I'll be able to find the quality and wood I want from the BWRP - that way it'll have some history which would be nice. We will see.

Speaking as a forestry professional, one who has devoted his life to actually planting and growing some of these timbers for high quality markets (including the sale of thousands of tonnes of material for use in instrument manufacture), I would pay a great deal of attention to the basic density of the timber you are considering. Maple is prized for its sustain qualities perhaps rather more than Ash. However, Maple is also a very hard wood - harder in fact, than Oak, and, therefore, less susceptible to wear. This is a quality you will rarely hear an instrument maker refer to - much less a musician. Ash is a very dense wood and with quite an open pore structure, but is the most resistant of any UK timber to shock. For this reason, it was used in tool handles and for sports equipment. Grain is often really straight.

Fast grown Ash has more wood formed in the early Spring, so is lighter and stronger (more shock resistant) at between 510-690kg/cubic metre. If, however, you can find some slow grown Ash, it will be incredibly dense - as much as 830kg/m3 & I would think that would be far, far better for your purposes than a lump of Beech.

I could tell you all sorts of stories about instruments & musicians prejudices for one wood type or species over another. For God's sake don't listen to guitarists about the tonal qualities of one type of wood over another (and my house is full of guitars). Speak to a cellist or violinist and they'll have a far better connection to the quality of an instrument and its construction.

However, there are so many factors at work here as to make generalisations almost meaningless. For example, the density of MDF is supposed to be guaranteed to be equal to that of Beech, and coupled with it's machinability, that's supposed to make it the perfect 'wood', ...........ahem.

Things like grain orientation, age and moisture content at time of felling, how the timber was sawn (eg 'through and through' or 'quarter sawn'), which part of the log it was cut from, how the woodland was thinned though the lifetime of the tree, even whether the log was ever floated down a river and how the sawn timber was stored all have a bearing on the performance of a given piece of wood.

The reputation of a species of wood for 'good sustain' in a guitar has only tangential relevance to the use of wood in hifi and depends entirely on the particular purpose you're intending that piece of wood to be put to.

The reputation of a particular species for its ability to sustain a note on an electric guitar is more a result of how it allows the string and the hardware to function unimpeded by other influences - ie to vibrate naturally, and for the note to decay without interferance from other factors. In simple terms, if the string is allowed to finish vibrating in its own time, and nothing prevents it from doing so, then the instrument has what is called 'great sustain'. Therefore, its not the wood that has the 'good sustain', but rather that the wood merely allows the string to fulfill its function properly or not.

Now, if you translate this to your hifi, you have to ask yourself what exactly it is that you want your piece of wood to do?

For example: A person making speaker cabinets may want the wood to allow the drivers to perform as naturally as possible, then they might prefer a timber that (in a guitar), has 'great sustain', because it will not set up, or transmit as many interfering resonances as another species.

In short, I think you want a wood that has 'great sustain'.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Beechwoods
30-11-2008, 08:09
Thanks for your very interesting points about the different characteristics of wood, Grand Wazoo. I'd not really thought about how many factors there were that could be taken into account when selecting the wood for a project. Particularly interesting are your comments about the benefits of wood with good sustain.

At this stage in my TT's evolution I've gone for a simpler design, which was more in keeping with my woodworking skills, and the amount of time I've been able to put aside to source materials and do the work. The end result does look fantastic, mind you.

I may add more weight to the base over time.

I'll do some pictures, Paul, when the light improves later in the day! I'll see how the issue I mentioned earlier regarding distortion on certain tracks sounds once I've got the new plinth properly installed, levelled etc. I have a second cartridge headshell too which I could try. Only thing is it's a different weight so I'll have to fiddle with all the counterbalances. Then again I might replace the v-blocks while I'm at it.

Beechwoods
03-12-2008, 23:47
I seem to have sorted the distortion I mentioned. The key things was replacing the v-blocks, which I thought were OK, but had got some replacements anyway. I figured what the hell and had the arm apart only to find the old ones were crumbling away... so changed them, reset the weights, et voila. No more distortion. I've a feeling I was also a bit light on the stylus pressure and that the anti-skate was being messed about by the crusty v-blocks. So that seems to be sorted.

I've still not got any pictures of the TT sans plinth. Blame the long nights. There's never any natural light when I'm not at work!

Primalsea
04-12-2008, 08:25
Thats good you have sorted that out. I'm now having problems with my tonearm. I rewired it just before I put it in the slate plinth but there seems to be some strange problems. I get a rumbling noise when I move the tonearm towards the spindle.

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
04-12-2008, 09:28
Hi All

Here's a photo of my Lenco, really very pleased with it, sounds great and gives the Feickert a good run for it's money, use a RB300 rewired by Audio Origami and a Koetsu Black cartridge. Ignor the TT mat I now have an Achromat ( cheers Marco ) and a SDS one to play with, haven't decided which I prefer but both are an improvement on the standard mat. All round Hi-Mass is the way to go, purely from my personal point of view.


http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/HyCoignitor/Audio%20Art%20of%20Sound/Lenco5-1.jpg


Andy - SDDW

John
04-12-2008, 09:35
Love the butcher block you used must sound good

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
04-12-2008, 10:54
Hi John

The Lenco is varying layers of Ply, MDF and two butchers blocks. The VTA is a Pete Wriggles device. The Lenco metal toplate has thin ply bonded to the underside to make it a flush/tight fit with the plinth and the top also has Dynamat damping material fitted. There is also FIM bearings to isolate the top plinth from the base block as can be seen under the metal pillars on the outside edges, so the whole top unit gently moves when touched.
I have tried it without the FIM bearing, just sat on the base block and it is much better with the bearing in place in every respect.

I must be honest here and say I didn't do any of the work myself, but a mate of mine who is an avid TT builder and tweeker had done it for himself, although it took a while I managed to prise it out of his hands. Been really pleased with it. Sounds great and looks good too.

Andy - SDDW

Beechwoods
04-12-2008, 13:39
Cor Blimey, that is some setup, Andy. I can see that I still have some tweakerage to do :-)

John
04-12-2008, 19:03
I was wondering what those bearings where; your friend did a great Job
One thing I love about the DIY route you can somethng totally unqiue and still sound great

Beechwoods
06-12-2008, 20:48
Ok. Phase 1 is finished. The Lenco is now plinthed and short of completing some rewiring on the tonearm termination to phono side I'm happy for the moment :champagne: This TT beats the pants off the 10 year old Pro-Ject Debut (1st Gen) I'd had previously. I am very pleased.

Some pics!

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day119_Ph1_Complete/IMG_1143_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day119_Ph1_Complete/IMG_1148_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day119_Ph1_Complete/IMG_1151_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day119_Ph1_Complete/IMG_1153_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day119_Ph1_Complete/IMG_1154_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day119_Ph1_Complete/IMG_1155_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Day119_Ph1_Complete/IMG_1158_s.jpg

Beechwoods
06-12-2008, 21:19
I grew up with a Garrard 301 as the family turntable, and my dad only parted with it last year. He went through his stuff recently and pulled out a few things he thought I might find useful. Today he gave me a box of a few bits and bobs. A few old Shure cartridges, spare stylii, and this, a lovely Garrard Stylus Gauge. I think it's older than I am. Thanks dad.

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Stylus_Gauge/IMG_1159_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Stylus_Gauge/IMG_1160_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Stylus_Gauge/IMG_1161_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/Stylus_Gauge/IMG_1162_s.jpg

Primalsea
07-12-2008, 09:53
Thats a lovely plinth Nick, I wish I had one of those, hang on err!! To be honest the slate plinth is good but the difference between it and the wooden one is too close to tell. In hindsight if I knew then what I knew now I would not have changed plinths. If your lenco works anything like my 401 in the plinth you will be hard pushed to find something better.

The Garrard gauges, I have heard, are supposed to be quite good. They any have one issue that I know off which is they read differently depending on room temperature. However I think thay come with calibration weights that you use before you set the downforce.

Beechwoods
07-12-2008, 10:02
I'm glad you like the plinth! I ripped off the idea from another member of this fine forum!

Regarding the gauge, it's a cinch to use, and yes, it does come with a test weight. I was pleased to find that my setting of the stylus weight and counterbalance by eye, was verified as bang on when I tried the gauge out. Quite gratifying!

John
07-12-2008, 12:16
Nice work Nick
When funds allow try changing that arm it is really holding it back in performance terms

Primalsea
07-12-2008, 12:31
I've never heard the Lenco arm so can't comment on how good or poor it is compared to other arms. However if you're not adverse to DIY you can make a basic arm very good. It won't make it into an SME V or anything but you can get something that you will like just as much.

Many people rashly assume that lightness and stiffness are most important. Actually its control of resonances that is key. Also I have found that adding weight to the area around the bearings can make huge differences.

John
07-12-2008, 13:18
Agree the control of resonance makes a huge difference and they are a few mods on the net that they reckon can help the arm so might be worth trying. The arm biggest issue is the V blocks

Primalsea
07-12-2008, 14:25
What are the V blocks?? Are they some form of Pivot??

Mike
07-12-2008, 14:38
Yep...

They're the virtical pivot point at the arm base, rather like SME3009.

Beechwoods
07-12-2008, 15:29
The arm biggest issue is the V blocks

I've changed the v-blocks on mine for some aftermarket 'precision' replacements. Are you saying that the v-blocks are a problem from a design perspective?

The arm is probably the next thing that will be reviewed, but for the moment I'm going to stick with it for simplicities sake. Right now I'm just enjoying having my vinyl out again. Next year will see more work :)

Prince of Darkness
07-12-2008, 19:33
I've changed the v-blocks on mine for some aftermarket 'precision' replacements. Are you saying that the v-blocks are a problem from a design perspective?


There is no problem with the design of the V-blocks, only with their condition deteriorating due to age.:)

Beechwoods
07-12-2008, 20:07
They do seem to one of the consistent things that go wrong with Lenco's, but easy to replace.

I've now installed a lightweight headshell, plus a Shure M75ED Type 2 cartridge. Definite improvement to the top-end I think.

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/M75E_Type_2/IMG_1163_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/M75E_Type_2/IMG_1165_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Lenco_Project/M75E_Type_2/IMG_1167_s.jpg

Marco
07-12-2008, 21:16
Hehe, that's freaky... Beechy, I've just bought one of those on Ebay! And also along with a NOS SME lightweight headshell to match:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280289328631&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310103457840&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:UK:11

I just thought it would be a bit of fun and I've always had a soft spot for Shure MMs. I've not had a chance to fit it to the Techy yet. What does it sound like on your Lenco? We can compare notes later :)

Marco.

John
07-12-2008, 22:48
Hi Nick have a quick read of this link around the arm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/maddogmcq/myart/lencoheaven/tonearms.htm
John

Marco
08-12-2008, 10:18
What does that Shure sound like then, baby? :)

Marco.

Beechwoods
08-12-2008, 11:59
I've not had the chance to listen it critically yet, ie. at decent levels :) But first impressions are that it has a nice clear top end that's not at all obvious, and that the bottom end is surprisingly full without being overdone. The stylus is significantly smaller than the N55E I was using before and it must sit right at the bottom of the groove. I need to try it on one of my more worn records and see if they play more cleanly. No idea on soundstaging yet because I've not got my speakers set up properly to say anything about positioning, but will have a proper listen on my headphones this evening and make some further notes.

Baby ;)

Marco
08-12-2008, 16:17
Interesting, Nick. I'd appreciate your more detailed thoughts when you've had a good listen. Unfortunately my SME headshell has been delayed in the post (should get it tomorrow, though). I've only got high-mass headshells spare and don't want to 'flatten' it with those! :)

Marco.

Beechwoods
08-12-2008, 21:57
I'd be interested in yours, Marco. You'll have had more experience of different sounding carts than me :) Listening on headphones through the Nagra tonight I've been impressed by the wide soundstage, though the vocals sit bang in the middle and the instruments spread nicely around - it doesn't sound exaggerated. It has a mellow quality. It'll do me for a while.

What encouraged you to try one out? They are a bit of a classic. Mine tracks well on the first 3 bands of the old Shure Obstacle Course LP, band 4 exhibits some of the artifacts of mistracking - slight popping on the cymbal hits etc. I heard that Shure were well regarded for their trackability.

SPS
08-12-2008, 22:31
Hehe, that's freaky... Beechy, I've just bought one of those on Ebay! And also along with a NOS SME lightweight headshell to match:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280289328631&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310103457840&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:UK:11

I just thought it would be a bit of fun and I've always had a soft spot for Shure MMs. I've not had a chance to fit it to the Techy yet. What does it sound like on your Lenco? We can compare notes later :)

Marco.

i have a few old mm carts.. i have not used the m75ed for years.. i have a nice one..

I used to use a v15 111 for a couple of years( quite a few years ago)

last weekend put a few carts through their paces ...from the box that seems to be growing
Shure m97he was up first, reminded me of the v15, rather a soft bass, but OK

then a nice decca london, better than the M97, did the complex stuff better

then on with an ortofon vms20e, close to the m97he.. not better
each one had around an hour, and where ready fitted to headshells

i have a good selection of headshells 3 sme's and some all alloy types

then to the kiseki mc, much better than those mm's did the fine detail, cleaner all they way through and much better bass

but.. i went back to an very old shure mm.. and its still on...
that make music with the right stylus.. and makes a row without it..

not much of a review...

steve

baron
06-04-2009, 17:33
Nick
Thanks for the photos on the other thread ;) and this one of course. I should have either started a new thread or added to this one :doh:
Anyway I think I'm going to do more or less the same as you did except as I am using a RB300 I want to cut top right hand corner off and make some sort of arm board there. I then need to support the top plate of the deck some how. :scratch:

There were a lot of photos on the lenco forum which seems to have disappeared.:confused:

I've had the deck from new, its only used when I'm in the loft on my computer, I was usinig it with the old arm to transfer 78's and some lp's to the PC. After I put my old RB200 arm on it I realised it was a better deck than I thought it was. So far with the RB300 on it it sounds very good and now just needs to be brought up to date with a better plinth. Hope this gives you a better idea of what I want to do.

Beechwoods
06-04-2009, 18:11
Philip - don't forget that Lenco Lovers has risen again as Lenco Heaven...http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php

It's obviously still early days because so much of the old site was lost, but they're a keen lot and all the bits are coming together.

Rereading some of the last posts on this thread has reminded me how much I've grown with the Lenco in recent months... new phono stage (the Quad 33 MM board) and a lot more listening. I've certainly made some personal discoveries via this deck - it easily competes with my CDP, I actually find it a more enjoyable listen... all this from such a cheap and inauspicious deck :) I know mine is pretty low-end but it does the business for me. I've thought about changing the arm for example, but it sounds really good as is, so why change it?

Anyway, more pics on the way. Just so you and Peter (Symon) can see how easy it is to put together a basic but serviceable plinth :)

baron
06-04-2009, 18:17
Thanks for that.:cool:

symon
06-04-2009, 19:19
Cheers!

Beechwoods
08-04-2009, 19:31
Here's some pics underneath my Lenco...

It was was Paul (Primalsea on here) who have me the idea for the plinth like this - he made one for his Garrard, and passed it on top me when he got his 401 Slatedecked. The frame is oak floorboards. The top is a John Lewis chopping block: http://www.johnlewis.com/230190037/Product.aspx

Glue is by No More Nails. That stuff is great for filling cracks, and for bonding stuff without a load of clamps to keep them still. Just glue, position, and leave it. I used plenty to ensure that the top and bottom were really solid.

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/AOS/lenco_underneath/IMG_1806_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/AOS/lenco_underneath/IMG_1808_s.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/AOS/lenco_underneath/IMG_1811_s.jpg

baron
08-04-2009, 20:59
Thanks for the photos Nick

symon
12-04-2009, 18:49
Redid the mains wiring into the Lenco this evening and powered it up for the first time. While I've not checked the speed it spins silently, no platter noise. Very pleased. Also replaced the iffy looking audio cables off the distribution block (left the tonearm wiring because it looked ok).

I got myself an old Shure SM55e cartridge / stylus a week or so ago.

Tomorrow I try playback.

Okey doke! Thanks for the extra pictures. Now for the extra questions.

What did you do when you rewired your Lenco? I'm asking this from the viewpoint of a simpleton who could probably benefit from doing the same thing but has no knowledge of how to do it! Pretty much standard fare for my questions, then.;)

Nick, if you have the time and patience, could you take me through step by step what you did and what you did it with (oo-er!).

Thanks in advance.

Peter

DSJR
12-04-2009, 19:20
You know, i've GOT to get my GL75 out of the garage and give it a spin. I have some replacement bearing blocks which are harder than the originals. What I really need to go with these is a pair of small ptfe washers to help centralise the knife edges.

As for re-wiring, I think re-wiring the arm innards will be difficult, but from deck to amp I'd suggest the Van Damme pro-patch cable. I used the "two core plus screen" mic cable as used I think by Audio Origami on my Dual recently and it works well with no hum - return and screen connected together at the phono plugs and the braided screen left disconnected at the deck end, finished off with some heat-shrink.

How's the M75-ED doing? the EJ version was the best one for this arm I found, but you should find that there are good modern cartridges with high internal damping that will work (the arm has 23 grammes effective mass I understand). the Goldring 1006/1012GX used to be ok, and I still think the Denon 110 would be ok. As the K9 worked well in one of these arms I reckon the AT120E should be ok too... I wonder if the DL103 would work? ;)

symon
12-04-2009, 19:50
Hmm - rewiring the arm was on the list, mainly due to the state of the arms I have. But, that's not first on the list, so I shall come back to it.

Beechwoods
12-04-2009, 20:23
What did you do when you rewired your Lenco?

No problem Peter... well, firstly I got a good length of decent quality mains cable from Maplin (they do good, flexible, 2 or 3 core cable by the metre). I did a direct swap for the very lightweight 2 core cable that was already wired to the transformer on the Lenco. It was a straight replacement and a modern 2 core cable should be fine. The Lenco isn't earthed to the mains.

As far as the rest of the wiring is concerned, as I mentioned, I left the tonearm wiring alone. That is a job way too fiddly for mortals and if you're going to put that effort in I'd say the Lenco arm is probably worth swapping out first!

If you look at your Lenco, you'll find a transparent matchbox sized thing under the platter. This is the distribution box where the very lightweight tonearm wires are connected to the more heavyweight phono cables that go to the amp.

I removed the original phono cables coming out of the dist. box and chopped up a cheap interconnect, wiring it in place of the old one, making sure that ground replaced ground and shielded replaced shielded (ground is the braided cable without plastic shielding of it's own, shielded are the cables that have their own coloured plastic coat). I wired this interconnect to 2 phono sockets mounted on the plinth. You'll see that in the latest pics I took.

Like Dave DSJR suggests, I earthed the Yellow tonearm 'ground' wire to the 'screen' of the phono sockets. See the first two of my latest pics. I bridged (wired together) the two outer bits of the phono socket with a bit of spare wire (Green sleeved in the pic) and then wired the Yellow cable to one of the outside (or 'screen') connections on one of the sockets. The 'screen' takes the earth back to the preamp and sorts out any hum issues.


You know, i've GOT to get my GL75 out of the garage and give it a spin. I have some replacement bearing blocks which are harder than the originals. What I really need to go with these is a pair of small ptfe washers to help centralise the knife edges.

Hi Dave - I got a pair of brass 'v-blocks' from a chap on Lenco Lovers and they did an excellent job - no other modifications needed as far as I was concerned. I would say that v-blocks are a definite for changing on an old Lenco. When I took the arm apart mine had crumbled away and were pretty useless. Looked OK stability wise but I just couldn't get the arm to track properly. If anyone wants details (Peter!) of the person I got mine from just PM me...


How's the M75-ED doing? the EJ version was the best one for this arm I found, but you should find that there are good modern cartridges with high internal damping that will work (the arm has 23 grammes effective mass I understand). the Goldring 1006/1012GX used to be ok, and I still think the Denon 110 would be ok. As the K9 worked well in one of these arms I reckon the AT120E should be ok too... I wonder if the DL103 would work? ;)

Thinking about cartridges for the Lenco did my nut. The L75 manual recommended the M75 E, M75 EM, M75 G, and M75 MB II. My M75 ED was a cart that my dad gave me so I gave it a try. It sounded a lot better than the M55 E that I had in their previously. Better highs, less surface noise. It tracks well too, and resonant frequency is within normal limits. When I mentioned it over on Lenco Lovers a while back a couple of people thought it might not be compliant enough. All I can say is that it works for me! I do have it partnered with the light-weight Lenco headshell which may have something to do with it :)

It would be interesting to see if something as well respected as the DL103 worked with the Lenco arm. Unfortunately it is well out of my price range :( Comparatively cheap I know, and good value, but too much for an uncertain return. I am so chuffed with the sound I'm getting at the moment, for nearly nothing (< £100 total so far) that I'm wary about spoiling it by messing any further!

DSJR
12-04-2009, 22:22
I can chat about GL75's as I've owned (and even sold them new.........) a few over the years and done some interesting tweaks and bodges of my own...

The M55e was apparently the very first V15 design, unless I'm mistaken. Like the V15 II it suffers a massive presence suckout, followed by a resonance peak at around 15KHz unless loaded to the gunwhales with capacitance. The 75ED has this to a far lesser extent, but like the previous 75E tracks at about 1.25g. I'm not saying to ditch it, but ripply and warped records may upset it a bit, that's all. The 75EJ has a smoothly falling top response, but the ones I tried tracked a dream at 1.8g approx in this arm and sounded fine. I did once fit a K9 and compared it to an Axis/Akito/K9. In *musical* terms the GL75 creamed the Axis, having a lovely sense of drama and "life," but the Axis did have a cleaner background but sounded dirty and dynamically restrained by comparison.

The L75 arm bearings have usually been quite good in the horizontal plane and none of mine have ever suffered stiction. The original knife edge blocks only seem to last around ten years or so and the arm gets very sick indeed if they are allowed to fail. My privately bought replacements are made of some sort of hard plastic and a similar set advertised on ebay offered a couple of tiny ptfe washers that helped to centralise the "knife edges" laterally in the housing.

When I've ever re-wired the external leads, I've usually kept the chassis earth wire separate from the two signal wires. The mic cables I've recently used are very flexible and the two inner cores carry the cartridge signal, the cable screen only connected at the phono plug. Replacing the external cables is a doddle to do.

For the mains, as you did, a smallish gauge flexible mains lead is a great idea. Following on from a forty year old review of the G99 chassis version of this drive, try putting a well insulated (!) 10W resistor of around 30 Ohms in series with the mains +'ve supply wire. It cuts the motor torque down a bit without affecting speed and I found the "rumble" harmonics are substantially reduced along with the almost violent "kick" of the idler on startup if everything is clean.

Like the Thorens 150 arms, find the right cartridge (there are one or two good ones and I suspect the Pickering XV15/625E may be another goodie, as well as the Shure 97XE but only with damper brush in use) and these old decks entertain really well.

By the way, I've yet to find a better mat for a GL75 than the supplied ribbed heavy one... A Linn felt mat is horrible and the NAS Spacemat doesn't work either.

Beechwoods
12-04-2009, 22:37
The 75ED has this to a far lesser extent, but like the previous 75E tracks at about 1.25g. I'm not saying to ditch it, but ripply and warped records may upset it a bit, that's all.

:lol:

You're right on the money, Dave. I only have one warped record. Very warped. And the M75ED / Lenco arm wasn't happy. The M75ED / L75 arm has a resonant frequency around 8Hz. Warps are around 6-7Hz so I've read, so while 8hz is within (at the bottom) of the normally acceptable range, it is pretty close to 'warp frequency'.

Like I say I've only had one problem record though. An original South African mono 'Mr Tambourine Man' by The Byrds a friend picked up for about £2 in a South African second-hand store! He told me not to bother playing it, but I wanted to see how bad it was! :mental:

Cheers mate :cool:

DSJR
13-04-2009, 14:28
I bought a 12" single last year and stood it too near radiator pipes (stupid fool). It's now as hilly as the Chilterns where I was born. Pack it in tight with your other LP's and leave it a good few years and you may find it'll correct itself. All my LP's which haven't been played for years are flat as billiard boards..