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View Full Version : Doing it 'by the book'



magiccarpetride
14-02-2011, 22:10
I've recently decided to arrange my audio system to comply with the textbook requirements. What I did is I first obtained a decent, vibration-resistent rack, and I placed my components (my Touch, Caiman, pre amp, power amp) on different shelves on the rack. I then carefully organized the cords and cables etc., so that the interference gets minimized.

After that, I shoved the rack all the way up against the side wall, so that it does not interfere with the sound stage.

Finally, did a very careful, Cardas-approved speaker placement. Using my trusted measuring tape, I placed the speakers 5' away from the wall behind them and 3' away from the side walls. I was going by the recommended 'best practices' guidelines. I then covered the wall behind the speakers with very heavy curtains.

Sat down for a listen, and was quite surprised upon realizing that my system sounds like utter shit. The sound is dead, absolutely lifeless, the soundstage is tight chested, and the bass is boomy.

OK, this forced me to spend a better part of the day playing with speaker placement. I've tried pretty much everything, including moving them closer into the corners, farther away from the corners, playing with the toe in, removing the heavy curtains half-way, all the way, etc. Nothing I've tried helped -- the system continued to sound like a piece of shit.

Finally, was forced to throw the towel in, and to bring everything back the way it originally was.

Hallelujah! That familiar, brilliant, kick-ass sound, that singing musicality, that razor sharp soundstage, were all instantaneously restored back to their former glory! I exuded a giant sigh of relief:)

So the conundrum is this: the way things are arranged right now is completely 'wrong' (according to the audiophile bible, that is). However, when I tried to go by the book and position everything the 'correct' way, the music sounded wrong. And I can't live with music that sounds wrong, even if everything else is done right.

This makes me believe that each audio system is pretty much unique, as it depends on infinite number of variables (listening room being probably the most complex). Because of that, to suggest that people go by the book is to paint the entire situation with a huge, broad brush. I think that there is no room for generalizing here, and that each situation must be approached with a fresh mind, willingness to experiment, until one hits that mysterious 'sweet spot'.

But to insist that our audio peers must arrange their system the exact same way we've arranged it, would be, in my opinion, unrealistic. In case something works for you, that's great, but don't feel like you have to coerce others to apply the exact same yardstick.

I am aware that what I'm proposing here is a more pessimistic approach, whereby you, the end user, must invest a lot of work upfront. But I believe that's the only way to achieve optimal results in your listening room.

MartinT
14-02-2011, 22:22
This makes me believe that each audio system is pretty much unique, as it depends on infinite number of variables (listening room being probably the most complex). Because of that, to suggest that people go by the book is to paint the entire situation with a huge, broad brush. I think that there is no room for generalizing here, and that each situation must be approached with a fresh mind, willingness to experiment, until one hits that mysterious 'sweet spot'.

What is this textbook you were following? There seem to be as many ideas on setting up as there are journalists writing about it.

I believe your conclusion is a valuable one: every system is different and you must experiment with the positioning and connection of everything.

magiccarpetride
14-02-2011, 22:27
What is this textbook you were following? There seem to be as many ideas on setting up as there are journalists writing about it.

I believe your conclusion is a valuable one: every system is different and you must experiment with the positioning and connection of everything.

Yes, there isn't an official textbook, but many different journalists and experts etc. all seem to converge towards a short list of what I call 'best practices'. Such as: your speakers must be at least 3' away from the wall behind them, yadda yadda yadda.

All I'm saying is, take all that with a huge mountain of salt.

Welder
14-02-2011, 22:33
Best to measure it :eek: but not with a tape measure :doh:

MartinT
15-02-2011, 06:57
Such as: your speakers must be at least 3' away from the wall behind them, yadda yadda yadda.

Yep, I've broken that rule. Everyone told me that my speakers could not work in my room as I've positioned them, but they didn't account for the room itself and the large amount of room treatment I've used. I also spread them wider than is recommended and the soundstage hangs together very nicely.

See here, the top-rear of the speakers are nearly touching the PicturePanels:

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/System20110201.jpg

John
15-02-2011, 07:27
Yes its good to experment and find out what works best for you and your system
The first rule is to forget the rules Lol

Butuz
15-02-2011, 09:18
Wow that pic is stunning Martin.

TXP42G20B ??? I likes your style sir!!!!!

Butuz

biggzy
15-02-2011, 10:17
Yep, I've broken that rule. Everyone told me that my speakers could not work in my room as I've positioned them, but they didn't account for the room itself and the large amount of room treatment I've used. I also spread them wider than is recommended and the soundstage hangs together very nicely.



Hi MartinT, you have some very exotic hi-fi kit there, very nicely done.;)

That has to be one of the most gorgeous pics iv seen.

Adam.

MartinT
15-02-2011, 11:34
Thanks, guys :)


TXP42G20B ??? I likes your style sir!!!!!

It is indeed, well spotted!


Hi MartinT, you have some very exotic hi-fi kit there, very nicely done.;)

It's taken a few years to assemble and I'm very pleased with it. It sounds as gorgeous as it looks.

Spectral Morn
15-02-2011, 12:08
All 'best practice' is, is a starting point for set up nothing more. Every room is different and thus requires fiddling around with the acoustics, speaker positioning and equipment set up.

Attention to detail is your friend and assumption your enemy. Just because it worked elsewhere does not automatically follow through that it will work everywhere else and with all equipment. I wish it was that easy.

However there is a body of experience in certain areas that will give pointers but these should only be viewed as a place to start from. Sometimes though, it can all come together first time and in a similar way to a past set up experience.


Regards D S D L

magiccarpetride
15-02-2011, 17:21
Yep, I've broken that rule. Everyone told me that my speakers could not work in my room as I've positioned them, but they didn't account for the room itself and the large amount of room treatment I've used. I also spread them wider than is recommended and the soundstage hangs together very nicely.

See here, the top-rear of the speakers are nearly touching the PicturePanels:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! If you were to post that photo on some other forums I frequent, you'd get lambasted not only for that (i.e. speakers almost touching the wall behind them), but also for many other things. For example, there are several fascists I know who would call in the audio police on you merely for the fact that you have a TV in the middle! To them, that is the worst possible audio sin you could commit -- even worse than being an atheist.

People are stark raving mad about these things:scratch:

Mr Pig
15-02-2011, 19:32
there are several fascists who would call in the audio police for the fact that you have a TV in the middle! That is the worst possible sin

That'll go back to the days of CRT televisions, which did ring like crazy to be fair. But even then, one of the best systems I've heard had a CRT in the middle.

Back to the day, what am I saying, I have a CRT! ;0)


This makes me believe that each audio system is pretty much unique, as it depends on infinite number of variables

Yip, I'd go along with that 100%. I've seen the same speakers working well in lots of different situations, including places where they 'shouldn't' work. You can't work these things out on paper.

goraman
19-02-2011, 06:29
What is this textbook you were following?

I believe your conclusion is a valuable one:
You must experiment with the positioning and connection of everything.

ANSWER: Kama sutra?

Fi-Wi
19-02-2011, 09:48
All 'best practice' is, is a starting point for set up nothing more. Every room is different and thus requires fiddling around with the acoustics, speaker positioning and equipment set up.

...

However there is a body of experience in certain areas that will give pointers but these should only be viewed as a place to start from.

I totally agree although I wonder if there is A 'best practice'. There are however some basic 'rules' that will work for whatever room its applied to, such as the good old rug on the wooden floor.

Speaker placement however is in my opinion a personal thing were the optimum sweet spot will be found by sheer trial and error instead of being an exact science.

After all, you cannot capture personal taste in a formula.

MartinT
19-02-2011, 09:52
ANSWER: Kama sutra?

Now you're talking ;)