Koss PRO-4 AA vintage headpones

[Marco]

Hi Alex,

{Discussion moved from the music room}


No chance - 3,000 odd members of AoS have just added "Ross RE-272" to their favourite ebay searches! :lol: (No? oh, ok, well maybe 1 has! :))

Lol, yeah I kinda thought that, so I've just bought these instead (always fancied a pair of 'retro' headphones):


http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6799/kosspro4aa600x600.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/kosspro4aa600x600.jpg/)


Info here: http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/koss-pro4aa-retro-headphones-prodid-564.html


They're basically these classic 70s headphones, only new (hey, they're not originals, but they'll be guaranteed to work!):


http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/847/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg/)



http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6158/bvdojwbgkkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/bvdojwbgkkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg/)


Should be nice :)

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

Ahh man, they rock! Do you know what, I think we should all join Andre in about 1971 and tell the rest of history to f*** right off! Got my eye on a pair of 'phones that I can join the party (7) with - you just need to start growing the 70's porn star moustache - in time for Scalford - dare ya! :lol:

[Marco]

Churz, dude - I think so, too :)

Lol - I would do it if I suited a 'tash... I just look (even more) gay than usual with one! :lol:

Beechy's yer top man for gay 'tashes, though, hahaha..... The one he used to have was a belter!!

In the late 70s I used to have a pair of brown (what other colour would they be, lol?) Koss headphones with individual volume controls, the slider type on each ear, and they sounded fab, so hopefully these will also do the biz.

I like the description:


The Koss 4AA full size close back headphones features dynamic elements for wide frequency response. This full-size professional quality stereophone has long been the headphone of choice for broadcast and recording professionals whose careers demand reliable equipment and superior performance.

As the first dynamic stereophone to deliver true full frequency, high-fidelity performance, the PRO4AA set the standard when it was introduced in its original form in 1970. In the late 1980s after long service, it was retired and replaced by a newer model. Customers clamored for its return, and by 1988 it was brought back by popular demand. Since then, though we've incorporated performance-enhancing technology and updated its style, the essence of the PRO4AA remains unchanged and it continues to set the standard for performance and reliability today.

The PRO4AA features dynamic elements for an exceptionally wide frequency response from 10-25,000 Hz. Designed for frequent use over extended periods, the PRO4AA's durable steel and rubber headband is generously padded. Adjustable slide bars ensure a snug fit, also critical for hearing every note and keeping unwanted sounds out.

Whether you are a sound professional or simply love music, the PRO4AA will deliver excellent isolation, accurate sound reproduction, and the excitement of a live performance to your recording.


Marco.

[Barry]

Hi Alex,



Lol, yeah I kinda thought that, so I've just bought these instead (always fancied a pair of 'retro' headphones):


http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6799/kosspro4aa600x600.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/kosspro4aa600x600.jpg/)


Info here: http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/koss-pro4aa-retro-headphones-prodid-564.html


They're basically these classic 70s headphones, only new (hey, they're not originals, but they'll be guaranteed to work!):


http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/847/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg/)



http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6158/bvdojwbgkkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/bvdojwbgkkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg/)


Should be nice :)

Marco.

Good one Marco,

I have a pair of Koss Electrostatic headphones (ESP-6) and they're horrid: uncomfortable to wear and have an unbalanced sound. If only I had bought the Pro 4AAs, much, much better (if you like headphones that is :eyebrows:)

Have been on the look out for a pair but always seem to miss the eBay appearances. :(

Regards

[Marco]

Hi Barry,


Good one Marco,

I have a pair of Koss Electrostatic headphones (ESP-6) and they're horrid: uncomfortable to wear and have an unbalanced sound. If only I had bought the Pro 4AAs, much, much better (if you like headphones that is...


I thought they'd be up your street :eyebrows:

Apparently the broadcasters at the BBC used them a lot? Yes I do like headphones. This is my third pair! I find them useful for listening to music late at night when Del's asleep.

Nick Gorham (the chap who modified my Lentek head amp) is building me a bespoke all-valve headphone amplifier, so I thought to go with the valves, I should have a pair of retro headphones :)

Technically, they probably won't be as good as my AKG 701s, but they'll add a touch of nostalgia, which is always fun!

I wonder if Andre will like them?


Have been on the look out for a pair but always seem to miss the eBay appearances. :(


You just mised a pair: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-1971-Koss-Pro-4AA-Headphones-Original-Owner-/390286543325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adee409dd

TBH, I'd go for the new ones - they seem identical to the originals, minus the sweaty stains from someone's manky nut! :spew:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Hi Alex,



Lol, yeah I kinda thought that, so I've just bought these instead (always fancied a pair of 'retro' headphones):



Info here: http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/koss-pro4aa-retro-headphones-prodid-564.html


They're basically these classic 70s headphones, only new (hey, they're not originals, but they'll be guaranteed to work!):


http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/847/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg/)




Should be nice :)

Marco.

Actually i've had those & they are no way near as good imho. The jack plug makes mincemeat out of that one

[Marco]

Lol - I'll let you know what I think when I get mine :)

What do you mean by: "The jack plug makes mincemeat out of that one..." :scratch:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Lol - I'll let you know what I think when I get mine :)

What do you mean by: "The jack plug makes mincemeat out of that one..." :scratch:

Marco.

Hold on ten mins all will be Revealed, i have to break off from a drunken sesh :lol:

[Alex_UK]

Hold on ten mins all will be Revealed, i have to break off from a drunken sesh :lol:

That means he's on a promise, but is too pished to do anything about it :eyebrows:

[Marco]

Nae worries :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Nor black plaky screw over jack bur well over sized all metal jack

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Ross003.jpg

[Rare Bird]

Ahh man, they rock! Do you know what, I think we should all join Andre in about 1971 and tell the rest of history to f*** right off! Got my eye on a pair of 'phones that I can join the party (7) with - you just need to start growing the 70's porn star moustache - in time for Scalford - dare ya! :lol:

You'll do for me bro ;)

[Rare Bird]

;)


Technically, they probably won't be as good as my AKG 701s, but they'll add a touch of nostalgia, which is always fun!




Dream on i hate my '701's in comparison!.remember companies only make the odd mega item ;)

[Marco]

Lol - read what I've written again, daftee, when yer sober! :eyebrows:

You've made a wee mistook... Clue: I was referring the 701s vs. the Koss ;)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

It was a brave brave feat for me to claim that these ROSS are in my view the best sounding headphones i've ever heard regardless of any price tag new or ancient! These are open back ;) this DAC i use is like a match made in heaven

:rave:

The Asthetics in the flesh are something else..

Sound description:

The best best ever analogue sound you will ever hear, tight tight deep basss in total control what ever demanding music you throw at them, they never ever distort but give the buisness when on demand, may it be any harsh sound source you feed them, you will hear the toatal picture but without any harshness..one day i will go to bed & have a break.

[Marco]

Did you mean Ross, not Koss? ;)

How much have you had? :lol:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

amended certainly not TOSS :lolsign:

[Marco]

Hehehe... Was it a vintage pair of the Koss PRO4AAs you had, or the new versions?

Apparently the new ones are tweaked with better components :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Hehehe... Was it a vintage pair of the Koss PRO4AAs you had, or the new versions?

Apparently the new ones are tweaked with better components :)

Marco.

I bought those u ordered about 1984! i always found open backed more open sounding, see what you think anyway.. jesus the bass slam is amazing on these, i can see me asleep in this chair by morning :cool:

[Marco]

Here's some interesting old ads for Koss headphones:


http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9862/muspics70sad01lg.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/muspics70sad01lg.jpg/) http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3530/muspics70sad02lg.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/i/muspics70sad02lg.jpg/)


http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/1497/muspics70sad03lg.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/muspics70sad03lg.jpg/) http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3137/muspics70sad04lg.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/muspics70sad04lg.jpg/)


http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5852/muspics70sad08lg.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/muspics70sad08lg.jpg/) http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7990/muspics70sad06lg.jpg (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/muspics70sad06lg.jpg/)


Being tested for accuracy in the lab:


http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1475/muspics70scompany02lg.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/muspics70scompany02lg.jpg/)


Check this dude (or dude-ess) out (the threads in particular):


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5419/muspics70scompany03lg.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/muspics70scompany03lg.jpg/)

:eyebrows: :eyebrows:


The Koss headphones I used to have in the late 70s (bought them from Laskys):


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8586/muspics70sprod16lg.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/i/muspics70sprod16lg.jpg/)


Apologies for the poor quality of the image - you can just about make out the slide volume controls on the side of them. Ah, memories... They sounded really good! :)

{Edit} I've now found a much better image of them:


http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3387/hvxlc1.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/hvxlc1.jpg/)


Hopefully the PRO4 AAs will sound as good or even better!


Marco.

[Techno Commander]

Oooh, happy days. :)
I had a pair of Koss Pro4AAs back in the 80s. Absolutely stonking pair of cans. IIRC I paid about 15 notes for them off a mate who was upgrading to a pair of Stax.

[Rare Bird]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Picture010.jpg

(Feb '72)

[Marco]

Nice ad, dude - proper headphones and hi-fi mags, eh? :eyebrows:

Cheers, Andy. I'm hoping the new improved components used will result in the PRO4 AAs being even better than they were before :)

One other point to note, looking at Andre's ad, is I'm sure that £28 in 1972 was a lot more than the £69.95 they cost today (can anyone convert it approximately?).... So in terms of VFM, they're superb!

They're due to arrive sometime next week, so there will be full report on them with pics :cool:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Nice ad, dude - proper headphones and hi-fi mags, eh? :eyebrows:

Cheers, Andy. I'm hoping the new improved components used will result in the PRO4 AAs being even better than they were before :)

One other point to note, looking at Andre's ad, is I'm sure that £28 in 1972 was a lot more than the £69.95 they cost today (can anyone convert it approximately?).... So in terms of VFM, they're superb.



at a guess £300.

[Marco]

If it's that much, that's mental! :eek:

How do Koss keep the price so low now, I wonder? :scratch:

Marco.

[Marco]

Lol - I'm talking about how much my Koss headphones cost, not your ROSS ones.... It was the Koss ones in your add which were priced at £28, no...? :)

It did say "PRO-4AA" in bold on the ad....

Marco.

[keiths]

I had a pair of the Koss ones in 1977. £1 a week for 36 weeks or something from my mum's catalogue. Saturday job money, plus my mum and dad were happy to chip in - can't imagine why :rolleyes:

Sounded great, but made my ears very sweaty and as a kid was prone to getting excema patches where I sweated, so they didn't get used for long periods. No idea what happened to them.

[Rare Bird]

I had a pair of the Koss ones in 1977. £1 a week for 36 weeks or something from my mum's catalogue. Saturday job money, plus my mum and dad were happy to chip in - can't imagine why :rolleyes:

Sounded great, but made my ears very sweaty and as a kid was prone to getting excema patches where I sweated, so they didn't get used for long periods. No idea what happened to them.

Thats the thing i didnt like about them, the ear cushions made my ears sweat & the headphones felt like they were squashing my head!

[Rare Bird]

Lol - I'm talking about how much my Koss headphones cost, not your ROSS ones.... It was the Koss ones in your add which were priced at £28, no...? :)

It did say "PRO-4AA" in bold on the ad....

Marco.

Yes i just scanned it from the magazine in the attachment

[Marco]

No worries, dude. Btw, you're about right in terms of inflation... I just looked up a converter, and £28 in '72 equates today to around £292.00 :eek:

Marco

[shane]

If you want uber-kool 70's headphones, there's rally only one contender:

http://www.hifi-wiki.de/images/6/6e/Jecklin_Float_Electrostat.jpg

If on the other hand you want good 70's headphones that won't give you cauliflower ears and neck muscles like the Minotaur (unlike anything Koss ever came up with!), then again, there's only one contender:

http://assets.head-fi.org/6/69/800x600px-LL-6954a61c_1852641205_Stax+SR-5+%26+SRD-6.jpg

[Marco]

Do you know, believe it or not, that's one thing I've never heard is a pair of electrostatic headphones. Somehow, they've always passed me by.....

I prefer the look of the Koss, though, although doubtless the Stax would sound much better :)

However, I'm still expecting the PRO4-AAs to be potential 'giant-killers'. Any headphones which cost nearly a week's wages for some people in 1972, and yet only cost £70 now, have to be high in the SPPV stakes! :cool:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

However, I'm still expecting the PRO4-AAs to be potential 'giant-killers'. Any headphones which cost nearly a week's wages for some people in 1972, and yet only cost £70 now, have to be high in the SPPV stakes! :cool:



they were quite expensive taking into account you could buy say a Trio 'KA200A' amplifier for around £36 back in '72 depending where you went..get this though you could buy a Ferrograph Series Seven: '702D' for just under £300.00, that is an inequivalent of approx £3,000 these days :eek:

[jantheman]

I've still got mine and also the Koss case to put them in. Bought them in 75/6. Haven't used them for ages so I'm going to have to get them out of the cupboard and see how they stack up to the HD650s I use now.....

[Marco]

Hi Ray,

That would be very interesting, so let us know how you get on :)

Andre, WOW... Shows the sheer the quality of Ferrograph gear!

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Aye sure does

[Marco]

Whoa.... Nice one. Thanks for posting that, dude - can't wait to get them now :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Here's someone from the 70s wearing Koss headphones. As a bonus to win a packet of chocolate cigarettes and some space dust, can you tell me what the turntable is featured?

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2676/muspics50sgallery02lg.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/i/muspics50sgallery02lg.jpg/)

;)

Marco.

[Barry]

These are mine:

http://www.wefurnish.com/esp62.jpg

Bloody uncomfortable and sonically not a patch on a pair of mid-priced Sennheiser headphones I once had (Don't remember the model). Unfortuately, a fault developed with the connecting lead on these phone, so I had to throw them away. :(

Are Koss still in business? Marco are yours original (NOS), or has someone out there started re-manufacture?

Regards

[Rare Bird]

Are Koss still in business? Marco are yours original (NOS), or has someone out there started re-manufacture?


This is what i'm worried about, if i wouldnt expect the same quality

[hifi_dave]

When I was writing for the mags, way back when, I had a pair of these to review. Whilst they sounded good, they were very, very uncomfortable. Not only were they sweaty round the ears but the weight meant that I could only listen to them lying on the floor with a cushion under my head. Even then, 30 minutes or so was all I could endure.

I did actually buy a pair of electrostatic phones from Micro Seiki (MX1 ?)which sounded livelier, cleaner and more open, they were also very light and comfortable for long sessions. A friend is still using them all these years later.

[jantheman]

Ouch.. I had forgotten just how heavy and uncomfortable these things are....:lol:
Soundwise compared to my HD650.....Frequencies are all there, good lows and highs (as high as I can hear anyway) but everything sounds muddy, heavy, like wading through treacle. Little or no finesse, it sounds like the sound is being pushed down your ears by someone wielding a 10ldb sledge. Oh, how things have improved in 35 years. Again, bear in mind that this comparison is against HD650's. Anyways, they're back in the box unless someone makes me an offer.....

[Marco]

Hi Ray,

That's interesting. Thanks for that. The reason I asked is that of course I have no idea how they sound.

Now I have a reference to judge against to ascertain if or how they've been improved since the originals were first introduced. If they sound as you describe, then I'll know that Koss have done bugger all to improve them, and they'll make a nice retro ornament in my room.

However, if what I hear is rather different to what you describe, then I'll know they've genuinely been 're-voiced', and thus perhaps have a genuine bargain on my hands - here's hoping....

I'll be using them on the end of top-notch equipment, and a superb all-valve bespoke headphone amp, courtesy of Nick Gorham, so they'll have every chance to shine! :)

Marco.

[Marco]

This is what i'm worried about, if i wouldnt expect the same quality

That's what I intend to find out, Andre, so watch this space. As I said, if it doesn't work out, they'll make a nice ornament! :eyebrows:

Hi Barry,


Are Koss still in business? Marco are yours original (NOS), or has someone out there started re-manufacture?


Apparently so (see link below), although I've no idea what connection they have, if any, to the original company - or it might still be the original company, I don't know....

http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/p?openform&bc

Have a look. What do you think? :)

Marco.

[Techno Commander]

Koss are still in business. Its still the original company as started by John Koss in 1953. They still offer their Lifetime Warranty and will service anything you send back to them for a fee of $6.

[Marco]

Lol, that's not strictly true...

This thread, although prompted by your purchase of Ross vintage headphones, was started to discuss the Koss PRO4-AAs.

Fair enough if you don't like them (I don't even know yet if I will!), but there's been some interesting input so far :)

The weight thing has certainly been mentioned at length, so I look forward (or not) to seeing how I handle that side of things, but hopefully being a big bawheid will help! :eyebrows:

As an aside, Koss do an indentical version of the PRO4-AAs, with a more up-to-date appearance, called the PRO4-AAT, which are also lighter:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3324/pro4aat1.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/pro4aat1.jpg/)

So if they do sound good, that will be an option for those who want to avoid the weight of the retro versions.

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Andy,


Koss are still in business. Its still the original company as started by John Koss in 1953. They still offer their Lifetime Warranty and will service anything you send back to them for a fee of $6.

That's interesting to know, so thanks for that. It suggests some significant pedigree, which in my book is always a good thing - and let's face it, no company is going to offer a lifetime warranty on shite ;)

What I'm hoping for is that the latest incarnation of the PRO4-AAs retains the good points, sonically, of the original design, but through judicious use of modern components, their previous failings will have been addressed.

As Koss say in their blurb:


As the first dynamic stereophone to deliver true full frequency, high-fidelity performance, the PRO4AA set the standard when it was introduced in its original form in 1970. In the late 1980s after long service, it was retired and replaced by a newer model. Customers clamored for its return, and by 1988 it was brought back by popular demand. Since then, though we've incorporated performance-enhancing technology and updated its style, the essence of the PRO4AA remains unchanged and it continues to set the standard for performance and reliability today.


It would be interesting to know what this "performance-enhancing technology" is. Certainly, if the result is the same as I got with the similar process of 'modernising' my Tannoy Monitor Golds, then I'll be a very happy bunny.

If it works out well, I'll have discovered another excellent product to recommend on AoS, for the benefit of everyone who likes quality, affordable headphones :cool:

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

I had a pair of Koss Pro 4AA for a while and they were much more comfortable than the electrostatic version as they were half (?) the weight. Still sweaty but I was able to sit up with them on.

[Marco]

If the new ones are any good, Dave, would you consider stocking them? :)

I'm not sure if you bother with headphones, or if you do, which ones you sell.

Marco.

[Barry]

Good Afternoon everybody,

Just a couple of points:

The "heavy, sweaty and uncomfortable" phones referred to are, I believe, the Koss ESP-6 electrostatic models, not necessarily the Pro 4AA, which from memory were reasonably comfortable.

I delighted to hear that Koss are still in business and offer a Lifetime Warantee, and will service any of their products for $6. I would like to have my ESP-6s serviced (for all their failings), however when I tried to contact the UK/European agent for Koss (based in the Channel Islands) I received no reply (after repeated attemps). Does anyone know of the address for Koss in the US, so that I can contact them directly?

Thanks

[Techno Commander]

International Contact Form (http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/cs-contact?openform)


These are the UK distributors. (http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/dist?openform&United%20Kingdom)

Channel Dynamics Ltd.
website: www.channeldynamics.net
email: info@channeldynamics.net
Hama Pvac Ltd.
website: www.hama.co.uk
email: koss@hama.co.uk
KONDOR Ltd.
website: www.kondor.co.uk
email: tradesales@kondor.co.uk
email: support@kondor.co.uk

[Barry]

Thanks Andy

I will try all three contacts!

Regards

[jantheman]

The "heavy, sweaty and uncomfortable" phones referred to are, I believe, the Koss ESP-6 electrostatic models, not necessarily the Pro 4AA, which from memory were reasonably comfortable.


Take it from me Barry...Ive just got my 70's vintage 4AA's out of the cupboard just to try as a comparison against HD650's and they are "heavy, sweaty and uncomfortable" as hell. I thought my HD650 were a bit of a lump but after the 4AA's they are featherweight.....

[Barry]

Take it from me Barry... Ive just got my 70's vintage 4AA's out of the cupboard just to try as a comparison against HD650's and they are "heavy, sweaty and uncomfortable" as hell. I thought my HD650 were a bit of a lump but after the 4AA's they are featherweight.....

I'm not doubting you Ray, it's just that compared to the Pro 4AAs the ESP-6s really are "heavy and sweaty".

It's been a long time since I used Sennheisers: probably the best phones I have used, but even then, the longest time I could wear them was only about half an hour.

Regards

[jantheman]

I'm not doubting you Ray, it's just that compared to the Pro 4AAs the ESP-6s really are "heavy and sweaty".
Regards
I dont know the ESP's..and from what you say, I'm glad I don't....:lol:

[hifi_dave]

If the new ones are any good, Dave, would you consider stocking them? :)

I'm not sure if you bother with headphones, or if you do, which ones you sell.

Marco.

If there was any call for them I would but to be honest, I can't remember when I was last asked for headphones - not even Stax, which I used to have on dem and in stock.

A similar situation with tuners - it's years since I was asked to supply a tuner...:scratch:

[Marco]

Personally, I don't know what all the fuss is about... I'm well used to sweating my tits off wearing a bit of 'rubber' :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Barry]

Personally, I don't know what all the fuss is about... I'm well used to sweating my tits off wearing a bit of 'rubber' :eyebrows:

Marco.

Ha! Wait until you try wearing the Pro 4AAs under that 'gimp mask' of yours! :eyebrows:

[Barry]

Well it would seem that Koss are alive and well. www.koss.com.

Have just contacted them about having my ESP-6s serviced.

http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/files/Museum_60s/$file/muspics60s_prod_08_lg.jpg



The Pro 4 range is still in production:

http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/05prodsbymodelal/PRO4AA/$FILE/PRO4AA_1.jpg?
Pro 4AA, $100,

http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/05prodsbymodelal/PRO4AAT/$FILE/PRO4AAT_1.jpg?
Pro 4AAT, $100,

and the

http://www.koss.com/koss/kossweb.nsf/05prodsbymodelal/PRO4AAAT/$FILE/PRO4AAAT_1.jpg?
Pro 4AAAT, $150.

[Marco]

Lol - tell us something we don't know! ;)

Marco.

[Barry]

Lol - tell us something we don't know! ;)

Marco.

Well I didn't know - didn't know there was a Pro 4AAAT model either.

[Marco]

'Well I didn't know - didn't know there was a Pro 4AAAT model either.

I mentioned all this earlier in the thread, daftie - and even included pictures!! ;)

Scroll back and see :)

Marco.

[Barry]

Info here: http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/koss...rodid-564.html

They're basically these classic 70s headphones, only new (hey, they're not originals, but they'll be guaranteed to work!):

It was the "not originals" that confused me. It was not obvious that Koss were still in business - the web site did not make it clear.

[Marco]

Yep. Also on page 5, post #47, I showed details of the PRO4-AAT ;)

And I'm the one who's half-pished after just having polished off a bottle of rather fine claret (see the wine thread for details)!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Barry]

Yet in your post #48, you respond to Keith's post where he confirms that Koss are in business and you said:


That's interesting to know, so thanks for that.

I wasn't the only one who thought that these headphone might be made by a third party. André thought so too.

However, I should have read your earlier post (#44) more carefully; you did in fact give the Koss website address. :doh: :o

[Marco]

Lol - I wasn't sure if the Koss featured in that website were the original company, but I knew of the existence of the PRO-4AAT, and indeed showed a picture of them, which you later posted as a 'revelation' ;)

If Andy is right and the Koss today are still the original company (which I've no reason to doubt) then I don't think their current range of headphones will be made by a third party. Why farm out the work to someone else when you have everything you need in-house?

It would be a different matter if Koss were no longer Koss, as it were.

Marco.

[Batty]

I had a pair of Pro 4AAs in the dim and distant past, weighed about 2 lbs, the foam insert in the headband disintegrated and the cable was litzwire which is a PITA to resolder and the earpads punctured. Gave up on them in the end.

I now have sennie HDH 414s anyone remember them?

[Barry]

I knew of the existence of the PRO-4AAT, and indeed showed a picture of them, which you later posted as a 'revelation'

My 'revelation' was the model PRO-4AAAT (with 3 'A's), not the PRO-4AAT. ;)

Anyway, let us know what you think of your PRO 4AAs. If they're good enough, I may get a pair for off-tape monitoring with the Nagra.

Regards

[keiths]

Stock up on the E45 cream for the sweat rashes :lol:

[Marco]

Hi Barry,


My 'revelation' was the model PRO-4AAAT (with 3 'A's), not the PRO-4AAT. ;)


Indeed, but those were featured, along with the full current product range (including the PRO4-AAT), on the link to the Koss website I posted yesterday, long before your 'revelation' occurred, lol! :)


Anyway, let us know what you think of your PRO 4AAs. If they're good enough, I may get a pair for off-tape monitoring with the Nagra.


No worries. I'll be doing a full report here, including pics of them in use with Nick G's prototype bespoke valve headphone amp - you wanna hear how good this thing sounds!! :eek:

Marco.

[Marco]

Well the PRO-4 AAs have arrived! :)

First impressions are very good indeed (and they look fab), but I will report back in more detail once I've run them in more, with a CD on repeat overnight, and had a proper listen and compared them to my K701s :cool:

However, I can hear plenty of 'SPPV' quality even now, and they can only get better......!

This definitely has all the hallmarks of another 'amazing new discovery' ;)

Marco.

[StanleyB]

Marco, if you ever get the chance to listen to the Denon D7000 then you should. My K701 lacks the sort of detail in the lower frequencies that the D7000 is quite good in deciphering.

[Marco]

Hi Stan,

Thanks for that. I believe those are the ones that Dave Cawley of Sound Hi-fi uses at shows (together with the ANT Amber 3T headphone amp). I've heard them, and they are very good, but I'm somewhat reluctant to spend £500-600 on headphones :)

What I'm hearing at the moment from the PRO-4 AAs is, sonically, a pair of £200-250 headphones with a £69-00 price tag (finished to an impressively high standard for their bargain basement cost), which is really quite remarkable..... They're certainly in my opinion sonically superior to the Sennheiser and Beyer Dynamic price eqivalents I've heard (and I mean the £200-250 ones!) I also love their 70s retro looks!

Weight-wise, they're heavier than is the norm with headphones these days, but being quite a big bloke, I didn't find it a problem. I suspect that most people wouldn't either, unless they were girly-men who couldn't cope with using anything but featherweight headphones (;)). I feel therefore that their apparent 'excessive weight' is somewhat overplayed, as is the 'sweat factor'. The latter, however, may be an issue in the summer months.

The PRO-4 AAs also shut out external noise extremely effectively (probably the most effectively with any headphones I've used to date), which certainly aids detail retrieval, as one's ears are immersed in total inky-black silence, from which music then emerges rather spookily. Crucially, they are also as effective at keeping noise out the other way, so that only the user is aware of any music being played, making these headphones ideal for use late at night where the slightest noise may disturb others sleeping.

In terms of absolute sound quality, they don't quite have the overall finesse, airy spaciousness, and that 'out of the box' sensation of the K701s or top-notch open-backed headphones, and certainly the Denons you're referring to. However, the level of detail retrieval and insight into the musical programme listened to, no matter the genre of music is, quite frankly astonishing at this, or indeed any price. If you enjoy forensically examining the minutiae of information in recordings, then these are the cans for you!

There is also a real sense of cohesion, with voices and instruments taking their correct place inside the acoustic space, creating a sense of realism, and giving their overall presentation an addictive musicality that encourages lengthy listening sessions. In terms of tonality, there is plenty of extension and sparkle at the top end, superb midrange clarity, and tight but 'articulate' bass. One can certainly hear why these were/are used for monitoring purposes in broadcasting studios.

Koss, IMO, have used their huge experience and no doubt unique access to specialist in-house materials, employed successfully for well over 30 years in the same design, to keep costs down, and carefully updated key components, whilst very cleverly voicing the PRO-4 AAs sympathetically to the originals, but at the same time also adding a more modern and incisive sound.

It's an incredible achievement for £69-00, and ably demonstrates that with some of the 'fancier' looking headphones on the market, most of what you're paying for is aesthetic frippery... Now where have I discovered that before? :rolleyes:

For me, even at this stage when they're not run in yet, and when I haven't yet got a full handle on their sonic signature, at £69.00, they represent an unmitigated bargain, and thus easily represent a superb example of the SPPV we value on AoS. I can't see these being anything other than an enhancement by Koss of the original design (the same Koss who first produced the PRO-4 AA) - thank goodness!

Right, I'm off for another listen - laters :cool:

Marco.

[Marco]

Just about to hit the sack, as I've got a long drive tomorrow to Martin T's for a T/T bake-off, but I'd like to add that the PRO-4 AAs have (as you can imagine) gotten even better now after a few days of use.

The sound has really fleshed out, losing a slight thinness and hard-edge they had when brand new. The top-end is still wide-open and extended, but both it and the midrange are now purer and sweeter, and that lovely sparkle and clarity are still there in abundance, and the bass boogies like a bad thing!

Guys, these really are fantastic headphones, and an utter, UTTER bargain. I would seriously urge anyone in the market for sub £300 headphones to check these out, as quite simply, you get £250-300 worth of sonic performance in a £70.00 package..... A quality headphone amp is of course mandatory.

Anyway, how often do you get genuine bargains like this these days? My advice? Snap 'em up now before Koss realise just how much they should sell for!!! ;)

Marco.

[DSJR]

Hi Alex,

{Discussion moved from the music room}



Lol, yeah I kinda thought that, so I've just bought these instead (always fancied a pair of 'retro' headphones):


http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6799/kosspro4aa600x600.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/kosspro4aa600x600.jpg/)


Info here: http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/koss-pro4aa-retro-headphones-prodid-564.html


They're basically these classic 70s headphones, only new (hey, they're not originals, but they'll be guaranteed to work!):


http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/847/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/bzwrwwkkgrhqjhyev1zuysb.jpg/)



http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6158/bvdojwbgkkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/bvdojwbgkkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg/)


Should be nice :)

Marco.



You don't arf give yourself these situations Marco. These things clamp themselves to your head and the weight hurts your neck muscles - they used to give me a headache after half an hour. Sounds a bit like a pair of teacups clamped to your head :D Seriously coloured sound and it's not that long ago I heard some either.

Jeklin Floats is where it was at back then ;)

See below ;)

[Techno Commander]

I think I detect a slight difference of opinion here. :)
I must admit, I really liked my originals. True, they did clamp to your head like a pair of limpets. But they did their job and did it effortlessly and put a bloody big smile on your face too.

[DSJR]

I must justify my position by mentioning the now old Sennheiser HD265 closed-back 'phones, as well as the current 25-SP series. Both of these are - IN MY OPINION - significantly less coloured in the midrange, more revealing of the heart of the recording and production and with loads of balls and life - quite the opposite of the average HD600 installation.

At the time, the new generation of electrostatic 'phones like the Jeklins, early Stax, Wharfedale Isodynamics etc. really showed how coloured the older coil type headphones were, the Pro 4AA's sounding cupped-hands on cocals in comparison. In fact I remember the "budget" Pro-4AA (the K6 Red Devils?) sounded a bit better and was ever so slightly lighter too.

None of my comments above deny that the 4AA were beautifully built and the featured liquid-filled pads were innovative back then. I suspect they'd cost loads if made now.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,


None of my comments above deny that the 4AA were beautifully built and the featured liquid-filled pads were innovative back then. I suspect they'd cost loads if made now.

That's the whole point - they are made now. I'm using the currently produced ones. And they are far from being "seriously coloured" - quite the opposite!

Was the pair of PRO-4 AAs you heard fairly recently a vintage pair or the new versions like I've got?

There is quite a difference in presentation, as I listened to a vintage pair the other day, and I would (mostly) agree with your assessment. The new versions have been considerably improved, sonically, and are thus a different ball game.

If you heard those, shweety, trust me, you'd have a rather different opinion. I would not be using them if they sounded as you describe!! ;)

Andre, the ones I'm using are made by the same company as the vintage ones, only they've been upgraded with modern components, and they look identical to the originals... There is nothing whatsoever better about the originals in terms of build quality or sound. I've done the comparison :)

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

For anyone not put off by trying the originals! (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KOSS-PRO-4A-CLASSIC-HEADPHONES-BOXED-/400196854566?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item5d2d976326#ht_500wt_1156)

[Marco]

Hi Alex,

They look very nice, but they're not 1970s originals - compare with these and you'll see:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-1971-Koss-Pro-4AA-Headphones-Original-Owner-/390286543325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adee409dd&afsrc=1

They look possibly like the newer models that were introduced in the late 80s (defo 80s vintage, I think), see info below (from the current Koss advert):


As the first dynamic stereophone to deliver true full frequency, high-fidelity performance, the PRO4AA set the standard when it was introduced in its original form in 1970. In the late 1980s after long service, it was retired and replaced by a newer model. Customers clamored for its return, and by 1988 it was brought back by popular demand.


That's not to say, they won't be any good, though. I suspect they will be, so someone should snap up a bargain! :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Hi Alex,

They look very nice, but they're not 1970s originals - compare with these and you'll see:

They look possibly like the newer models that were introduced in the late 80s (defo 80s vintage, I think), see info below (from the current Koss advert):




Marco:
Those in Alex link are PRO/4AAA, they came out around 1977, they are what i had ;)

[Marco]

That's cool and useful to know, dude, but they look rather different from the ones from the early 70s, as you can see from both pics....

Note the softer earpads in the later ones, for starters :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

That's cool and useful to know, dude, but they look rather different from the ones from the early 70s, as you can see from both pics....

Note the softer earpads in the later ones, for starters :)



The original Pro4/A didnt look like your either ;)

[Marco]

Originals from the early 70s:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1951/ce1cieqmkkgrhqyoknuez1r.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/ce1cieqmkkgrhqyoknuez1r.jpg/)


The PRO4-AAs you had, and also the ones Alex linked to earlier (observe the earpieces in particular, compared to those used in the ones above):


http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8117/kgrhqrhwe1kvkolebnytkq2.jpg (http://img718.imageshack.us/i/kgrhqrhwe1kvkolebnytkq2.jpg/)


They're TOTALLY different!


Mine (the current models, based on the early 70s originals, but updated with modern components):


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4725/41n6a4g5n2l.jpg (http://img259.imageshack.us/i/41n6a4g5n2l.jpg/)


Mine look much more like the early 70s ones, than those you had..... ;)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

:)

[Marco]

Ok, cool, but the fact remains that the ones Alex linked to, or the ones you owned, aren't/weren't the first originals either! ;)

Also, having compared mine to one of the early models (albeit not the first originals, as you've shown), I know which ones sound better and also look great.... :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Barry]

Koss were able to save money on manufacturing costs by only using one 'A'. :lol:

[Marco]

Hi Andre,

It hasn't gone "arse-up", dude. It's actually very interesting seeing all the versions from different eras, which with your help we've now become aware of... :)

Original PRO4-A:


http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2043/pro4a.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/pro4a.jpg/)


It's original box:


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3433/34053147.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/34053147.jpg/)


Later early 70s model:


http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9817/pro4aa.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/pro4aa.jpg/)


And it's original box:


http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5621/pro4aabox.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/pro4aabox.jpg/)


PRO4 AAA:


http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9716/pro4aaa.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/pro4aaa.jpg/)


Do you know roughly which year the versions second from top were introduced? Because those look almost identical to the ones I have.

Also, in terms of ascertaining where they were made, I've checked the box and all the packaging they came in, reading the small print, and this is what it says:


Made in USA of US and imported components. Printed in USA.

There is no mention whatsoever of anything to do with their design being produced outside of the US.

Does anyone know what the legal position is on this? If they were in fact being made elsewhere, then would this have to be declared somewhere on the packaging?

My feeling is that it's a bit like it was with the Techy. National Panasonic could sell the SL-1200/1210 for £350-550, retail, before the prices went up at the end, because of in-house mass production. Furthermore, with the design having been sold for nearly 40 years, the tooling and original set-up costs had long since been paid for.

Had that not been the case, the Techy would've cost much more today, new.

Well, the PRO-4 AAs have been in production for a similar period of time, so who's to say that Koss haven't done exactly what National Panasonic did?

No-one ever said that modern Techies were cheap because they were being made somewhere other than Japan, and thus were 'fakes' compared to the originals.......... ;)

You might not like the current PRO-4 AAs, dude, because they aren't genuine vintage designs, which is true and absolutely fine, but that's rather different from implying that the new ones are somehow 'inferior', either sonically or aesthetically, which quite simply isn't the case.

I am fairly certain that the current Koss PRO-4 AAs are as American as the Techie was Japanese.

Marco.

[DSJR]

Hi Dave,



That's the whole point - they are made now. I'm using the currently produced ones. And they are far from being "seriously coloured" - quite the opposite!

Was the pair of PRO-4 AAs you heard fairly recently a vintage pair or the new versions like I've got?

There is quite a difference in presentation, as I listened to a vintage pair the other day, and I would (mostly) agree with your assessment. The new versions have been considerably improved, sonically, and are thus a different ball game.

If you heard those, shweety, trust me, you'd have a rather different opinion. I would not be using them if they sounded as you describe!! ;)

Andre, the ones I'm using are made by the same company as the vintage ones, only they've been upgraded with modern components, and they look identical to the originals... There is nothing whatsoever better about the originals in terms of build quality or sound. I've done the comparison :)

Marco.

I stand corrected again. I hadn't realised this model was re-introduced with modern drivers etc and assumed you were discussing the 1970's originals - apologies.

For my head though, it's HD25's or HD265's ;)

[Marco]

No worries, Dave. That's the problem with only scan-reading threads, rather than digesting them thoroughly... ;)

However, I'm guilty of that too!

Marco.

[Marco]

Another review for reference for those interested in the PRO-4 AAs, which largely concurs with my own thoughts:

http://www.epinions.com/review/Koss-PRO4AA-Headphones-160630/content_88730144388

:)

The more I use these headphones, the better they get!

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

So these Pro/4AA's you like em then?

:lolsign:

[Marco]

What ever gave you that impression? :scratch:

:confused:

Marco.

[BTH K10A]

Paid £2 for these on the local boot fair this morning. Plugged them into the EMT 938 and first thoughts are not bad. :) Keepers but will need some replacement pads.

Not as subtle a presentation as my Sennheiser's though.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0843.jpg

[Rare Bird]

probably only because your use to the Sennheisers presentation..tbh i dumped my big Senns & AKG for a pair of 70's phones that sound very very simular to thos Koss phones..

[Marco]

Nice one, Andy - £2 is an utter bargain, so well done! :eek:

They're rather good, aren't they? The Senns, like Andre says, have more of a 'hi-fi sound', but the PRO-4AAs, for me, are much more musical.

And of course, the new ones are even better! ;)

Marco.

[BTH K10A]

Thay are in great condition too. No marks or dings. The earpads could do with replacing and there looks to be a layer of foam that will probably have suffered with age.

Any ideas where I can get the earpads from and how to go about replacing them? Wasn't lucky enough to get a manual as well. :(

[Rare Bird]

Thay are in great condition too. No marks or dings. The earpads could do with replacing and there looks to be a layer of foam that will probably have suffered with age.

Any ideas where I can get the earpads from and how to go about replacing them? Wasn't lucky enough to get a manual as well. :(

The re-iss should fit..Just contact Koss

[BTH K10A]

The re-iss should fit..Just contact Koss

Andr'e

Arrived today :)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0845.jpg

Before
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0843.jpg

After
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0846.jpg

Took about 10 mins to replace the pads. Much more comfortable now.

[Rare Bird]

Great stuff

[Beechwoods]

You lucky man!

[Marco]

Hi Andy,


Andr'e

Arrived today :)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0845.jpg

Before
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0843.jpg

After
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0846.jpg

Took about 10 mins to replace the pads. Much more comfortable now.

All your pics have been deleted, mate, so if you could pop them back up again for reference, that would be great - churz! :cool:

Marco.

[DSJR]

The new ones do seem to look a bit different to the old-'uns. Are they as heavy?

[Marco]

Nice one, Andy - that's great. Thanks for sorting out the pics :)

Hope you're still lovin' the Kossaroonies :cool:

Marco.

[BTH K10A]

Nice one, Andy - that's great. Thanks for sorting out the pics :)

Hope you're still lovin' the Kossaroonies :cool:

Marco.

Yep, been using them plugged straight into the 938. :)


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/IMG_0849.jpg

[Marco]

Class! :respect:

Marco.

[BTH K10A]

As long as I dont end up looking like John Peel :eek:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10088&page=2

[Barry]

From the Grave