View Full Version : A True Work Of Art and Its Soon To Be At Brook Towers
Cannot hold back my utter joy at managing to get one of these babies, after countless trawling e-bay and all the forums in existence for one at a good price, through my network of fine people and dealer contacts got a near perfect example of this quality piece of engineering. The rarer all black version with magnesium arm tube.
Now do I put it on the Garrard 401 I recently acquired or on the Techie?
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/Turntable%20Pics/SME309.jpg
Wakefield Turntables
11-02-2011, 11:21
The techie!! Rega and Garrard work very well together! I'm getting the Adjust+ software soon so I can start to give you some statistics as to how much Whats really cool as well is that we can also measure things like wow and flutter so we can see what our souped up techie's are doing!
Aesthetically as well, I think the SME looks too modern for the 401, (just my opinion, others may of course disagree!) but they look superb on the 1210, and especially with the Oyaide kit, it would look super hi-tech. Lucky boy!
I dread to think how much you've spent since you joined this forum! :lol: I'd better hurry up and buy one of those brushes to help you pay for it all! ;)
That arm would look great on a Technics. Looks like they were made for each other.
Rare Bird
11-02-2011, 12:38
Now do I put it on the Garrard 401 I recently acquired or on the Techie?
I don't think modern arms suite the Garrard visually, something big & silver like a Fidelity Research 'FR64S' would look very nice, i had one on my '401', was fantastic. One of the best arms ever created imho
I intended to put the R200 on my Garrard (still might) which looks quite similar in some ways, and I agree, older type arms suit the 401 better than modern looking arms.
Rare Bird
11-02-2011, 13:50
Aye the FR is a bigger arm tho Alex all stainless steel..I've actually seen a few R200's on '401's..
There's an '401'/Acos lustre:'GST1' on auction now.
All this arm swapping talk has got me thinking... R200 on my 401, 3009 on my SL-150, Pro-Ject arm onto the Planar 3 - which leaves a Pro-Ject RPM4 with a Techie SL-1500 arm on it! :lol:
Ammonite Audio
11-02-2011, 15:46
The SME is a technically brilliant bit of design and quality workmanship. You'll have to let us know how you get on with it. In my admittedly limited experience of SME IV and V arms, I have found them to impart a clinical feel to the music, and it's quite difficult to love them as a result. A Jelco would be humiliated by the SME in terms of detail, attack etc, but could just be a more musical and satisfying beast. Just my opinion, of course and if you don't like it, they are very easy to sell on.
The SME is a technically brilliant bit of design and quality workmanship. You'll have to let us know how you get on with it. In my admittedly limited experience of SME IV and V arms, I have found them to impart a clinical feel to the music, and it's quite difficult to love them as a result. A Jelco would be humiliated by the SME in terms of detail, attack etc, but could just be a more musical and satisfying beast. Just my opinion, of course and if you don't like it, they are very easy to sell on.
Thanks for the input mate, will report when its all plumbed in. Its getting a bit difficult at Brook Towers as I sold my PF30 to keiths and put the Aquarius back into service, only lasted a few days when a customer came round to buy a blue horizon mat and ended buying the Aquarius as well!
I may get myself an Isotek Syncro to play with next, its supposed to be an absolute stunner of a cable, judging by the amount sold since launch it must be quite special. Good job for me and Mark that the UK mains supply is so dirty! :)
chris@panteg
12-02-2011, 00:39
Hi David
Congrats on getting a 309 , they are indeed lovely things.
And if your feeling adventurous ' try it with a DL103 and let me know how you get on :)
Hypnotoad
13-02-2011, 03:46
What? That piece of rubbish, send it to me so I can dispose of it for you!;)
Seriously though that is a work of art, put it on the Techie and enjoy.
:mex:
I tend to agree with Shuggie; a wonderful bit of engineering but does not get you into the heart of the music, I hope it works the SME works better for you than it did me
chris@panteg
13-02-2011, 10:38
Hi John
I see what your saying , but LP12 user's say the same vs the 1200/1210 the latter being far too clinical and perhaps even ruthless at revealing poor recordings , the LP12 being far more forgiving and nicer or kinder sounding .
I believe the SME like the Technics 1200 and even more so the SP10 has just less artiface or character , clinical sounding perhaps yes , but many TT's and arm's add warmth or a certain bloom which wasn't there in the original recording and if you prefer it , then that's fine 'personal taste and all that .
On the face of it a Techie/SME might be too clinical, but with the right cartridge choice you can add a little bit of colour and warmth to balance that out , i was hoping the rebodied 103 would do that for mine but it didn't work for some reason , i still think it might be the right cartridge but i had to send it back to Jon as he needed a decision one way or the other .
I imagine a 1200/SME/ATOC9 would be far too much , Dave Cawley loves it though .
Hi John
I see what your saying , but LP12 user's say the same vs the 1200/1210 the latter being far too clinical and perhaps even ruthless at revealing poor recordings , the LP12 being far more forgiving and nicer or kinder sounding .
I believe the SME like the Technics 1200 and even more so the SP10 has just less artiface or character , clinical sounding perhaps yes , but many TT's and arm's add warmth or a certain bloom which wasn't there in the original recording and if you prefer it , then that's fine 'personal taste and all that .
On the face of it a Techie/SME might be too clinical, but with the right cartridge choice you can add a little bit of colour and warmth to balance that out , i was hoping the rebodied 103 would do that for mine but it didn't work for some reason , i still think it might be the right cartridge but i had to send it back to Jon as he needed a decision one way or the other .
I imagine a 1200/SME/ATOC9 would be far too much , Dave Cawley loves it though .
Exactly why I use a Cartridgeman Musicmaker with my Techie/SME.
Hi Chris
Yes I agree we all like different presentations but I do not really see the SME as neutral IMHO I guess this is just me feeling let down whenever I used a SME
I totally agree about balance and its in this area we can get the presentation to change. I guess thats where knowledge and expermentation come into play
Hypnotoad
13-02-2011, 13:50
Benz Glider. Hand made in Switzerland and just upgraded with new styli. Best value around IMO.
:wow:
Wakefield Turntables
13-02-2011, 16:12
I imagine a 1200/SME/ATOC9 would be far too much .
I have this combo and yes it's extremely clinical and shows you whats exactly on the record :eyebrows: For me it's not clinical enough I hate the idea of adding "warmth" but thats just my personal preference.
Lol! Every cartridge adds its own signature, Andrew, including the OC-9, so don't fool yourself into thinking that it's is genuinely 'accurate'.
In your case, with the OC-9, I wouldn't worry about adding warmth, but rather stripping away some of the natural warmth of voices and instruments and adding a dollop of treble emphasis.... ;)
Still, if you enjoy it like that, matey, that's all that matters! :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
13-02-2011, 17:44
In your case, with the OC-9, I wouldn't worry about adding warmth, but rather stripping away some of the natural warmth of voices and instruments and adding a dollop of treble emphasis.... ;)
Marco.
You can tone it down with a nice juicy warm and yummy valve amp of course :)
Wakefield Turntables
13-02-2011, 18:14
You can tone it down with a nice juicy warm and yummy valve amp of course :)
As much as I hate to admit this there is a side of me which wants a nice warm valve based system. I've been on the hunt for a decent Radford STA 15 or 25 for a while. This means I'll have the forensic nature of the 1210 and the warmth of the valve set-up.
This means I'll have the forensic nature of the 1210 and the warmth of the valve set-up.
Same as me, then - synergy at work! Although, good valve amps don't sound "juicy warm and yummy"; they just remove the inherent sterilty of most solid-state amps, giving just as much forensic insight into the musical programme as the Techie.... ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
13-02-2011, 19:57
Same as me, then - synergy at work! Although, good valve amps don't sound "juicy warm and yummy"; they just remove the inherent sterilty of most solid-state amps, giving just as much forensic insight into the musical programme as the Techie.... ;)
Marco.
Marco,
i did not need to hear your last comment as this means now that i'm going to have to search for the right valve amp to give me the forsenic insight I crave.
AAAArrrrggggggggggggghhhh........................
:mad:
Reid Malenfant
13-02-2011, 20:00
You just wait for the magic words.... Copper amp :eyebrows:
Sooner or later it'll come round to it ;) I'm looking forward to getting a listen to one in less than a month :)
All this nonsense about warmth etc, etc. Put the needle on the record and if it sounds "right" result!
Indeed. But my comment earlier about warmth wasn't nonsense!
Marco.
Just don't understand where warmth comes into sound? Yes maybe when the wife is sat cuddled up in her blanket.
Anyway I digress, the 309 is arriving tomorrow and the day after my new arm board from Mr Cawley is arriving so the weekend shall be spent setting it all up to perfection and then experimenting with VTA and all the various mats and weights I have at my disposal.
Next week or maybe the week after I am sending my 2 Roksan integrated amps away to be modified into a pre and power amp and then that will be me done once the Garrard has the technoarm on it, sorted.
Oh I almost forgot, got some anti-cables (http://www.anticables.com/) to try so we will see how thy perform before I send my amps away.
Indeed. But my comment earlier about warmth wasn't nonsense!
Marco.
Sorry oh great one, will try harder next time...:):ner:
I see what your saying , but LP12 user's say the same vs the 1200/1210 the latter being far too clinical and perhaps even ruthless at revealing poor recordings , the LP12 being far more forgiving and nicer or kinder sounding .
As you go up the Techie upgrade path, it becomes more forgiving of poor vinyl while responding superbly to good ones and suppressing noise to ever lower levels. I believe I have found the soul of mine, it's not at all clinical sounding, just precise, fast and incredibly musical (to use that hackneyed old term).
chris@panteg
16-02-2011, 12:45
Hi Martin
Yes i was rather harsh perhaps , just having a daft moment that's all :rolleyes:
Enjoy the Techie and to anyone who has a Linn :)
hifi_dave
16-02-2011, 20:18
Indeed. But my comment earlier about warmth wasn't nonsense!
Marco.
To me, 'warmth' implies rounding off. I prefer the term 'body' and 'solidity'.
Hi Dave,
I'll go with 'body', too! :)
Voices and instruments, however, do have natural 'warmth', and yes, body (used in the right context, it's got nothing to do with rounding off) - and some cartridges, and other equipment, due to how they are designed and voiced by the manufacturer, strip or 'bleach out' their natural warmth and colour.
And for me, one of those cartridges is the AT OC-9 (and indeed most AT cartridges that I've heard share those characteristics - it appears to be their 'house' sound). A modern SPU, for example, is the antithesis of this.
If anyone wants a good example of what I'm referring to regarding natural 'warmth' in, for example, voices, then listen to how someone's voice sounds on the telephone, and then how it does in real life.
The former is thin and tinny sounding in comparison to the latter, which is richer and more sonorous. That's a more severe example than what I'm saying an OC-9 does, but it tackles the gist of what I'm referring to.
The sonic presentation of an OC-9 could be described as having some of the characteristics I refer to at the beginning of the first sentence in the previous paragraph, and say, a DL-103 or SPU, the characteristics of what I refer to at the end of the same sentence.
I will always favour equipment which prioritises the realistic reproduction of tone, timbre and texture, over forensic detail retrieval and a spot-lit top-end, and the sterility that sometimes goes with that, quite simply because to my ears the former traits are more faithful to the sound of real music (instruments and voices), as so in my view, are ultimately subjectively more 'accurate'.
This is also why I prefer good valve equipment to its equivalent in solid-state.
Marco.
The sonic presentation of an OC-9 could be described as having some of the characteristics I refer to at the beginning of the first sentence in the previous paragraph, and say, a DL-103 or SPU, the characteristics of what I refer to at the end of the same sentence.
I think you're going to like the Dynavector DV20X2L, Marco. It falls firmly into the latter camp.
I think you're right, Martin.
You, more than anyone, will be able to appreciate where I'm coming from, having heard my SPU on your T/T, and having recently compared your AT-33PTG, which is sweeter sounding than an OC-9, to your DV20X2L :)
Marco.
P.S what time on Saturday suits? I was going to try and get there earlier this time :cool:
Any time you like, Marco. I'll be up about 8am ;)
Nice one - I'll be there then at 8.30, so get the tea and toast on! Haha... I'd come earlier, but I'd rather give you the chance to get out of your Superman pyjamas! :eyebrows: ;)
Incidentally, is the Ayre well yet?
Marco.
Nice one - I'll be there then at 8.30, so get the tea and toast on! Haha... I'd come earlier, but I'd rather give you the chance to get out of your Superman pyjamas! :eyebrows: ;)
Incidentally, is the Ayre well yet?
Marco.
get off my thread and do pm's to each other...:):lol::ner:
get off my thread...
...spoken like the farmer who said "gerrorf moi laand!", eh?
It may be your thread, daftee, but it's MY FORUM - so as they say up in sunny Glesga, 'get it right up ye!' :ner:
:lol: :lol: :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
P.S Are you sending the Oyaide to Hugo?
Sorry David!
Marco - Ayre not back yet and probably not likely to be now.
Sorry to hear that - is it totally fecked, then? :(
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
17-02-2011, 13:29
Nice one - I'll be there then at 8.30, so get the tea and toast on! Haha... I'd come earlier, but I'd rather give you the chance to get out of your Superman pyjamas! :eyebrows: ;)
Incidentally, is the Ayre well yet?
Marco.
In that case, I will try to get there a little earlier - around 0900 o'clock, hrs.
Lol - I was only taking the piss! I'm aiming to get there for around midday :)
Marco.
Sorry to hear that - is it totally fecked, then? :(
Oops, my bad wording. It will be back with a new drive in place but not for Saturday's entertainment.
Lol - I was only taking the piss! I'm aiming to get there for around midday :)
Phew, thought I would have to get the toast on the night before...
Let's get back on topic fellas, arm plate arrived from DC, looks nice and very well made. I am a bit scared now as a bit daunting assembling it all!
Hehehe, s'ok.... 'Roger' on the Ayre - good one :)
Marco.
David - did you get captive nuts for the arm plate holes, to save you disassembling the base each time you change arms?
David - did you get captive nuts for the arm plate holes, to save you disassembling the base each time you change arms?
yes mate
are you seriously suggesting the SME 309 will be coming back off at some time mate?
are you seriously suggesting the SME 309 will be coming back off at some time mate?
Depends whether you can afford a Dynavector :D
Depends whether you can afford a Dynavector :D
Graham worked for SME for 30 years I think he said, I am going to get his special Denon cartridge next which I think is £450. Afford does not come into the equation for an audiophile does it boss? :ner:
Thanks for the input though, are you going to Bristol as I would very much like to meet you?
I'll take 3 please..............
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2649&md=1b532307f4b7aef85f2670ddd9552ccc
Wakefield Turntables
17-02-2011, 20:42
I'll take 3 please..............
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2649&md=1b532307f4b7aef85f2670ddd9552ccc
you tight wad, i've just ordered a dozen :lolsign:
Thanks for the input though, are you going to Bristol as I would very much like to meet you?
LOL, no problem. Yes, I'm currently planning to go on Sat 26th. Will you have a stand there?
LOL, no problem. Yes, I'm currently planning to go on Sat 26th. Will you have a stand there?
A stand at Bristol, why? Its full of brochure collectors and WHF lemmings, the ONLY reason I am going is to finally meet 2 of my best customers and loyal virtual friends (virtual meaning we have never met but chat on the phone for hours). Maybe I will bump into a few of my enemies as well...:steam:
I am flattered you think I may be worthy of a stand at Bristol but I would rather spend the 3k on a decent cartridge... :lol::lol::lol::):):)
I am going to exhibit at Whittlebury though.
I'll take 3 please..............
I would be terrified of just attaching that to my arm :eek:
Anyway, I was talking about the Dynavector arm, not their cartridges. Although I'm rather partial to my DV20X2L cartridge, too :)
Ok, let's meet up at the show. We can make arrangements by PM.
The Scalford Hall enthusiasts show is where you hear real hi-fi systems - shows like Bristol are mainly full of home cinema gear and other boring mainstream commercial pap, which is why I avoid it like the plague.
The London show at the Park Inn, whilst in a horrible location, is much better in terms of hearing more interesting 'off the wall' products. Whittlebury Hall is also good. I think you'll do well there, David :)
If you're meeting Martin at Bristol, he'll be the one in the pink floral dress and high heels :eyebrows:
Marco.
I only go to mooch around the vinyl and see if there's anything worth listening to. Agreed that Park Inn is better but last year's was disappointing. I like to hear whether Ricardo and £100k of Audio Research or Krell can make a good sound or not. Usually not.
Oh, it's YELLOW these days, Marco. Do keep up :)
Just spent a few hours fitting the 309, pain in the arse I must say but boy is it worth it. Set the tracking weight at 1.75g with my digital gauge, its difficult to describe just how good this arm is, for me anyway it just so much more information coming out of the grooves, I listen to mostly 80's funk and soul, a well cleaned record trounces CD's, I have a lot of albums and cd's of the same tracks and the ooomph is just not there with CD.
Only slight problem is I only had 1 Oyaide mat and weight left and its gone to one of my regular customers yesterday so I cannot get the full monty just yet. I have the feeling the arm is so good I can spend weeks tweaking all the settings until I get just the right sound I need. I also think the phono stage in my Roksan amp is so good a separate phono amp is not required, cannot really tell them apart.
Photos tomorrow.
Spectral Morn
18-02-2011, 22:34
Just spent a few hours fitting the 309, pain in the arse I must say but boy is it worth it. Set the tracking weight at 1.75g with my digital gauge, its difficult to describe just how good this arm is, for me anyway it just so much more information coming out of the grooves, I listen to mostly 80's funk and soul, a well cleaned record trounces CD's, I have a lot of albums and cd's of the same tracks and the ooomph is just not there with CD.
Only slight problem is I only had 1 Oyaide mat and weight left and its gone to one of my regular customers yesterday so I cannot get the full monty just yet. I have the feeling the arm is so good I can spend weeks tweaking all the settings until I get just the right sound I need. I also think the phono stage in my Roksan amp is so good a separate phono amp is not required, cannot really tell them apart.
Photos tomorrow.
Few hours ;) I had an SME 5 off a silver armboard, onto a black one and fitted and adjustments checked (VTA set to suit Oyaide mat) in about 40 mins and that included taking the bottom off the Techie removing nuts, replacing with captive ones, bottom back on and Isonoes fitted.
I have done a few recently and its becoming like second nature to me and yeah I know I am being a smart ass.
Regards D S D L
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