My bass has gone!!!!!

[UV101]

Since moving house, I've lost all the fast tight dynamic bass I used to have! My room is bigger and I can hear that I'm getting lower freq. And the clarity at the top is still very good along with the overall imagery, the fast attack of the drums is gone!!!!

At this point, the only thing I can put it down to is the fact that I've gone from a concrete screed base with carpet to floorboard with carpet. I suspect I've lost the stability and that I'm loosing energy into the speaker case.

Anyone agree, disagree or have a suggestion on how I could sort it!

I was thinking about trying a couple of concrete slabs under each speaker. If it helped, I 'd need to find something a little better to look at!

I'm gutted, my system which wad sounding very special, is now sounding very average.

[Alex_UK]

I was thinking about trying a couple of concrete slabs under each speaker. If it helped, I 'd need to find something a little better to look at!

I'm gutted, my system which wad sounding very special, is now sounding very average.

Feel for you - try the concrete slabs I reckon, see how that improves thing if at all... :(

[UV101]

Yep, it's a real killer. I think that's why I ended up with the cheaper speakers because the floor was so solid, it was making up the difference in the models I demo'd. I think I'm looking for as much mass as possible. I'll test the water with some horrid slabs and if it works, I'll look to get some lumps of granite cut. I don't think filling the gap under the floor with concrete is much of an option!!!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

you havent got t in a bay window have you ... thats what it worked out to be here

[hifi_dave]

It's not necessarily a floor thing. Some of the best sounding systems I have set up have been on wooden floors. Having said that, a flimsy wooden floor, such as that found in a modern house is probably not a good base for your hifi, nor is cheapo laminate flooring.

[Audiocom AV]

Since moving house, I've lost all the fast tight dynamic bass I used to have! My room is bigger and I can hear that I'm getting lower freq. And the clarity at the top is still very good along with the overall imagery, the fast attack of the drums is gone!!!!

At this point, the only thing I can put it down to is the fact that I've gone from a concrete screed base with carpet to floorboard with carpet. I suspect I've lost the stability and that I'm loosing energy into the speaker case.

Anyone agree, disagree or have a suggestion on how I could sort it!

I was thinking about trying a couple of concrete slabs under each speaker. If it helped, I 'd need to find something a little better to look at!

I'm gutted, my system which wad sounding very special, is now sounding very average.

Hi Ian

Which speakers do you have?

Room size?

[HighFidelityGuy]

The size and shape of your room will make a big difference. You will now have a completely different set of room modes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_modes). This means that at your listening position your system will now have a completley different frequency resoponse.

Try playing with the distance between your speakers and walls and your listening position and speakers. Sometimes you only need to move the speakers a few inches closer or further away from a wall to get quite dramatic differences to the sound.

Hopefully a little speaker/listening position tweaking will solve your problem. :)

[UV101]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replys.

Here's a bit more info.

Ok the speakers are my moded Focal 716v's (Mundorf in the xovers and 4TC recabled) which are spiked through the carpet and underlay into the floorboards. The cabs are not a rigid on the floor as they were in the old house onto concrete.
The room is about 10m x 5m and like most extended rooms, there is an arch (allbeit square) which will definately not help with reflections. The room is much bigger than the last place. The floor has a thick pile carpet and there are plenty of soft furnishings in the room.

The freq response is better than the last place, probably due to room volume in so much as they speakers will go down lower. What I have lost is the attack and dynamic punch that I had really worked hard to acheive previously. Before everything was very tight but now snare drums and bass drum have no initial kick.

At this point, my theory is that the cabs coupled to the much less stable floor are absorbing loads of energy. If the cabs were comepletey still, all the cone energy would be transfered into sound. The speakers are not particularly expensive and to be honest, I was suprised how good they sounded previously. I can only assume the very stable floor helped massively with this.

I'll again try to reposition but I've really convinced myslef that the floor is the issue ;-(

[Alex_UK]

That's a big room - was the old one the same size? Are you firing across or along? (and is that different to before?) Have you got less soft furnishings than before/bigger windows? Any other things that are different - I'm not 100% convinced it is just the floor at play here...?

[Stratmangler]

That's a big room - was the old one the same size? Are you firing across or along? (and is that different to before?) Have you got less soft furnishings than before/bigger windows? Any other things that are different - I'm not 100% convinced it is just the floor at play here...?

This might be a clue


The room is much bigger than the last place.

;) :lolsign:

[Alex_UK]

:doh:

Teach me to scan read won't it!

In that case, I think the floor is only one of your problems Ian, and possibly not the major one... :(

[Stratmangler]

What were the room dimensions at the last place ?

[UV101]

Sorry, the topic is a little misleading!

I've got plenty of bass! The problem is the tightness of the sound has gone. Overall, It's not boomy, and the sound is still better than most but previously the sound was very tight and accurate especially around the kick of drums, Which made for an exciting listening experience. Now it all sounds very laid back. Tonally, the balance is about right and from a spacial point of view it's still very involving with a very 3d soundstage and plenty of micro detail. It's just when the drums bang after an intro, it's a real disappointment!

Room volume wise, I've probably added half as much again.

I realise I've introduced lots of new variables. Bigger room, different substrate, listening position further back etc.

[Stratmangler]

Have you tried gently stuffing the ports ?

Your room can allow more of the low stuff to be properly developed, and this might well have the perceived effect of reducing the attack of drums.
The low end has always been there, you just didn't have the space to let it properly develop before.

Sitting nearer to the speakers might be beneficial.
Paving slabs under the speakers might help.

[UV101]

Have you tried gently stuffing the ports ?
Not yet, but it's now on the cards for tonight :)



Your room can allow more of the low stuff to be properly developed, and this might well have the perceived effect of reducing the attack of drums.
The low end has always been there, you just didn't have the space to let it properly develop before.

Absolutely agree. I can remember doing calculations when I built my TL cabs. I think you need 32' in order for a 20Hz wave to fully unfold. :stalks: where did that come from!!!


Sitting nearer to the speakers might be beneficial.
Paving slabs under the speakers might help.

I'll see if it makes any difference moving forward/

As for paving slabs, I may have secured some large lumps of Granite which should do the trick (if indeed this is part of/ all of my problem)

I'll let you know how I get on

[Reid Malenfant]

Absolutely agree. I can remember doing calculations when I built my TL cabs. I think you need 32' in order for a 20Hz wave to fully unfold. :stalks: where did that come from!!!
32' is actually good for 16Hz but lets not split hairs here :eyebrows:

Room modes may well have slightly reinforced what you were hearing previously as the previous room was smaller as you indicated. Now you are in a bigger room that reinforcement has extended to a lower frequency boosting what you didn't hear to well previously whilst leaving what you are used to a little dry.

At least that's the way it comes accross to me ;)

[Haselsh1]

I take it you've got your speakers wired correctly and in phase...? Out of phase can produce a seriously dodgy bass.

[UV101]

32' is actually good for 16Hz but lets not split hairs here :eyebrows:
:lolsign: was from memory I quoted. Close enough for a dig into the long term memory bank!!!

The old room was full of reflections too. Loads of soft furnishings required. I do take the point that the desirable freq may well have been reinforced in the old room.


I take it you've got your speakers wired correctly and in phase...? Out of phase can produce a seriously dodgy bass.

I'd hate to think I'd made such a schoolboy error and I'd have expected to be distinctly lacking in all lower freqs but I checked anyway! Def the right way round!

[pwood]

The room has to be the main cause. My Ruark Talisman 2's sounded great in my old property and then sounded lost and flat in my newbuild house. Try a few things out that cost very little like slabs and also the supports under your equipment which are now in a different room as well and will also be as affected as the speakers.

[UV101]

Granite blocks arrived yesterday afternoon so I'll have a play later. I also think there may be a slight issue with one of the interconnects. I noticed that the soundstage was off to 1 side. I swapped over L&R and the soundstage centred again and the attack seemed to be better. I'll check my leads for poor connections and as they are attenuated, the resistors too. I've properly measured the room dimensions too and although it is bigger that the last place, it's not quite as cavernous as I posted earlier in the thread! It's Approx 7m x 3.9m and 2.2m high. As it's extended, there is an arch (yuk) about 4m from the speaker end of the room.

I've adjusted the speaker position away from the wall slightly and this appears to have tightened things up a bit more again but the image is less defined! I obviously need to keep on with the testing and hopefully get a positive!

Anyway, I seem to be making progress which is good. Thanks for all the info so far :-)

[HighFidelityGuy]

Good luck, it sounds like you're on the right track.
Do you mind me asking where you got your granite slabs from? I looked into getting some last year but couldn't find quite what I was looking for. Cheers. :)

[UV101]

Hi Dave,

I found this on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250763983173&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I rang and spoke to Steve and he was very helpful. I ordered 8 blocks (4 for me and 4 for a friend) 80mm x 190mm x 405mm the cost of the block was £20. Obviously they are heavy so the pallet delivery was £39.50! They need a bit of a clean and I'll fit spikes to the blocks but I plan to use 2 per speaker.

Very good price for the amount of garnite supplied. If you want something polished and shiney tho, this isn't it!

:cool:

[UV101]

Update!

OK so I now have 2 slabs of granite 80mm high by 190mm by 410mm. Each price is on 3 screws on the floorboards. I know 1 larger price would have been better but these were a steal even with the pallet delivery! Having just plonked them in roughly the right position, I'm massively impressed with the results. The power and attack that was missing has returned. It's still not quite where it was (a little wooly overall) but it's a significant improvement. I'm sure I will continue to tweak until I'm happy. Let's just say I feel better about the whole set up as of now :)

http://184.72.239.143/mu/5218fca1-0a27-45e8.jpg

http://184.72.239.143/mu/5218fca1-0a4f-61f6.jpg

[roob]

Maybe bringing them out a bit from the rear wall could do the trick esp if they are rear ported, they look a bit close in the picture.