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View Full Version : Schumann Synchroniser - an interesting tweak



geofff
09-02-2011, 11:36
Having read lots of good reviews of the Acoustic Revive RR-77 Schumann resonance generator, I was intrigued. There is definitely solid science confirming Schumann resonances – which is not to say that they will necessarily have any effect on a hi-fi system, of course. I wasn’t keen on spending £380, so when I heard (via a 6Moons review) about an alternative for £150, I thought I would give it a whirl.

The Healing Earth Schumann Synchroniser (http://healingearth.co.uk/default.aspx ) won’t win any beauty contests, being a purely functional plastic box. There is a 5-position switch which varies the strength of the field produced. You cannot hear or feel any sound emanating from it; a red LED is the only indication that it is working. I put it on the floor between the speakers and have compared it many times switched on and off to determine the effect.

For a while, I thought I heard a difference and I felt better about the music with it working, but I couldn’t pin down why. Of course, if it affects mood and relaxation, which is one of its claims, then that will affect how you perceive the music, and I can’t disentangle that effect from the purely physical effects on the sound. Nor would I want to – or care. But gradually I found that I could pinpoint the effects. With the Synchroniser on, the soundstage becomes deeper, with instruments easier to identify between the speakers and each in its own space; when off, the image appears to be flatter between the speakers and more homogeneous. When on, each instrument has more of a presence so you can focus on it better; when off, all the instruments can still be identified but they are in more of a diffuse fog. As well as pinpointing images, each instrument also seems louder within its own space, perhaps something to do with dynamic contrasts. I don’t want to overstate the effect. It’s not huge, and, by the way, it’s nothing to do with increasing edge or brightness – in fact, I think it’s quite the opposite because I feel as though you get a better sense of bloom from each instrument. I am pleased that I can detect a definite musical improvement and for me, one that is well worth having.

By the way, if you find that you can’t hear any difference, pass it on to someone who can’t sleep. I lent it to a friend who has great trouble sleeping and she found it helped her greatly, so she bought one.

zanash
10-02-2011, 19:16
I've got the phonosophie room animator which I expect is very similar ...it cycles through 5-12 hz or so my mini ossiloscope says .

http://www.phonosophie.de/International/eraumanimator.html

my findings ..though poo pooed by many who could not arsed to listen to..mirror yours !

Ali Tait
10-02-2011, 19:34
I think it's well known that very low frequencies can have a profound effect on the Human psyche.

geofff
11-02-2011, 11:55
my findings ..though poo pooed by many who could not arsed to listen to..mirror yours !

Yes. The improvement is more in terms of musical appreciation and you can't hear it so much in hi-fi terms, so I suppose some people don't want to know.

zanash
11-02-2011, 12:21
yes ...It seems to increase the spaces between instraments ...or the preception of the same

though mine has caused some one synus pain ..each time it was activated ...

and at efem's place made us both feel queasy ...

geofff
11-02-2011, 12:35
Well, we have to suffer for our music! :uhho:

The Schumann Synchroniser has 5 levels -- each is double the strength of the previous. I have it set on the middle level and haven't felt anything weird.

HighFidelityGuy
11-02-2011, 13:06
It's a shame the Synchroniser has a switched mode power supply. Perhaps it could be modified to use a less electrically noisy linear supply. :scratch:

HighFidelityGuy
11-02-2011, 13:26
Reading a little more about this I've realised that the Synchroniser is supposed to have a direct effect on the people around it, not other electrical equipment like hi-fi's. So it seems to me that you would possibly be better off positioning it closer to your listening position rather than between your speakers. Perhaps you could experiment with this Geoff and let us know if you notice any further improvements or not? :)

I've heard about this type of thing before but always been a little sceptical, especially as most seem to be quite expensive. £150 isn't too bad though and helps me to keep a more open mind about it. Do you know if Healing Earth offer a money back guarantee if the buyer doesn't experience any benefit? If so I may give one a try. Even if it doesn't make my hi-fi sound better it sounds like it might help me to sleep better which would be an acceptable alternative application. :cool:

geofff
11-02-2011, 13:37
Do you know if Healing Earth offer a money back guarantee...

Well, Healing Earth is just a one-man business. His website is quite interesting as he didn't design this for hi-fi purposes. You would have to email him and negotiate...

aquapiranha
11-02-2011, 13:40
another cheap plastic box with a light on it that is supposed to help? How much does this one cost then?

Can we have a list of active components?

Just checked, only £150! what a joke, get real people, next you will be buying psu boxes like this filled with moon dust and alien spunk.


The information and products featured on this website are for educational purposes only and not to be construed as a recommendation for treating disease. (Unless you believe anything people tell you)
These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.( except audiophile neurosis)
Always consult a health practitioner for treatment of disease. (better still see a shrink)
No statement in this website has been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.( this is because it is all utter bullshit designed to sell cheap boxes full of a collection of componenets that I have designed to relieve you of cash and credibilty)
If you buy my bollocks, please seek professional medical advice.


Edit...

I am becoming increasingly concerned about the plethora of so called 'tweaks' that are being offered to audiophiles by the 'healing crystals and homeopathy' brigade. More and more ridiculous, baseless, unfounded and downright hilarious devices are offered for sale to us under the pretext of helping us improve the sound of our systems, or indeed to help us appreciate the sound in new and otherwise undiscovered ways. This unending torrent of hocus pocus products plays on the needs of the vulnerable and impressionsble in order to extract cash from them. I have personally become sick and bloody tired of all this rubbish, and seek to distance myself from associating with the manufacturers, peddlers (sorry, 'sellers') and indeed the users of all this paraphernalia since I firmly believe that is it making them, and by association therefore, me, look like a complete and utter tit. It is for this reason that I am henceforth going to resist posting on this forum, though I will still be logging in to check my messages if that is ok with Marco? enough is enough, make yourselves look like fools if you wish, but I will henceforth have no part in it.

John
11-02-2011, 15:43
Hi Steve
I am really sorry you feel this way. I have always enjoyed reading your views Steve and hope in time you reconsider

Reid Malenfant
11-02-2011, 15:50
Hi Steve
I am really sorry you feel this way. I have always enjoyed reading your views Steve and hope in time you reconsider
+1, hope you come back Steve..

In all honesty fella all you need to do is ignore what you see as the ridiculous, it's be a damn shame not to see you posting. After all there are plenty of posts that aren't verging anywhere near the wacky ;)

Come back!

zanash
11-02-2011, 16:16
another cheap plastic box with a light on it that is supposed to help? How much does this one cost then?

Can we have a list of active components?

Just checked, only £150! what a joke, get real people, next you will be buying psu boxes like this filled with moon dust and alien spunk.


The information and products featured on this website are for educational purposes only and not to be construed as a recommendation for treating disease. (Unless you believe anything people tell you)
These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.( except audiophile neurosis)
Always consult a health practitioner for treatment of disease. (better still see a shrink)
No statement in this website has been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.( this is because it is all utter bullshit designed to sell cheap boxes full of a collection of componenets that I have designed to relieve you of cash and credibilty)
If you buy my bollocks, please seek professional medical advice.


Edit...

I am becoming increasingly concerned about the plethora of so called 'tweaks' that are being offered to audiophiles by the 'healing crystals and homeopathy' brigade. More and more ridiculous, baseless, unfounded and downright hilarious devices are offered for sale to us under the pretext of helping us improve the sound of our systems, or indeed to help us appreciate the sound in new and otherwise undiscovered ways. This unending torrent of hocus pocus products plays on the needs of the vulnerable and impressionsble in order to extract cash from them. I have personally become sick and bloody tired of all this rubbish, and seek to distance myself from associating with the manufacturers, peddlers (sorry, 'sellers') and indeed the users of all this paraphernalia since I firmly believe that is it making them, and by association therefore, me, look like a complete and utter tit. It is for this reason that I am henceforth going to resist posting on this forum, though I will still be logging in to check my messages if that is ok with Marco? enough is enough, make yourselves look like fools if you wish, but I will henceforth have no part in it.

I'm happy to bring my box to you ...so you can actually hear what it does .....

Its clear to me that your talking from a position of total ignorance.

if your within easy travelling of I'd be happy demonstrate ....

my bet is that you wont take up my offer !

Actually that goes for anyone who wants to have a listen ...

I've used this device in upwards of fifty system and only one person said they could not hear a change in the music presentation ...thats not to say all were good changes ..... but thats not the question ...the question being possed is it can't possiblely have any effect ......a lot of people have had to eat hats !

Reid Malenfant
11-02-2011, 16:21
my bet is that you wont take up my offer !
If Steve accepted would you fancy a trip to Northern Ireland?

:eyebrows:

HighFidelityGuy
11-02-2011, 16:53
I'm happy to bring my box to you ...so you can actually hear what it does .....

Its clear to me that your talking from a position of total ignorance.

if your within easy travelling of I'd be happy demonstrate ....

my bet is that you wont take up my offer !

Actually that goes for anyone who wants to have a listen ...

I've used this device in upwards of fifty system and only one person said they could not hear a change in the music presentation ...thats not to say all were good changes ..... but thats not the question ...the question being possed is it can't possiblely have any effect ......a lot of people have had to eat hats !

I might take you up on that offer in a month or two as I shouldn't be too far away from you. :cool:

geofff
11-02-2011, 16:57
I'm old enough to remember all the arguments in the hi-fi community to the effect that turntables can't possibly make any difference, then it was speaker stands, equipment supports, spikes, etc., then it was interconnects and speaker cables, then mains cables, ...

Often the most vociferous are the ones who haven't actually listened to the demonstrations, or who have but haven't listened.

The Grand Wazoo
11-02-2011, 17:59
The OP mentioned that there was some solid science relating to this. Would someone mind enlightening me please? So far all we know is that there's a box with a switch on it. You've told us of the effects that you perceive - what does the box do?

Alex_UK
11-02-2011, 18:03
Ok, I have thought whether I should post or not, and in my usual "UN" mode (splinters in the arse more like!) I can certainly see where Steve is coming from. Some of you (before Geoff's time, unless he was a "lurker") will remember our old "friend" Shippy, and the whole saga of Beltism which dominated this forum for a brief period, and to a degree, all of these devices and rituals are similar in concept and fall under what Steve has described as "hocus pocus products" - unless there is some solid science behind them - otherwise, my initial reaction is that the effect is purely placebo.

I should state that whilst I am open minded about a lot of things, I tend to agree with Steve that these products are primarily intended to sell, and make money for the "inventor" and manufacturer (like most products!) off the back of people searching for something (in Steve's words the "vulnerable and the impressionable") and I can see where he feels (in my words) this makes us look like (audio)fools, for blindly accepting the spiel. I don't disagree that mood changes how we "receive" music, but how exactly, other than by the power of suggestion, do these devices do what they claim to do - can we see the innards of them and some links to some science or plausible independent explanation?

Beechwoods
11-02-2011, 18:15
How could we forget Shippy... :rolleyes:

John
11-02-2011, 18:16
I think this quote puts things into context
"It has come to my attention that various companies are using my research to sell their products, claiming they emit the Schumann Frequency. I want to make it clear that I do not endorse any such products and have no connection with the companies selling them."

Spectral Morn
11-02-2011, 19:40
If Steve accepted would you fancy a trip to Northern Ireland?

:eyebrows:

I hope you reconsider Steve as your contributions to AOS are valuable and as I have met you, I can also say that your a really nice guy too and I would miss you if you left AOS.

If he does and as I live over here too, I also would be willing to have a listen.


Regards D S D L

zanash
12-02-2011, 10:34
If Steve accepted would you fancy a trip to Northern Ireland?

:eyebrows:

thats a far old way .... but yes in principle

strange request ....

[for you not me ]

do you need a liecence to gold pan in northern island ...

if I can combine a trip over that could combine hobbies ...there could be some milage in the offer !

I could post the unit ..but the phonosophie is rather more expensive than the othe unit mentioned [about x7!]



if theres anyone in the uk midlands region interested ...then please contact me ...[I could do with getting out !]

zanash
12-02-2011, 11:04
I might take you up on that offer in a month or two as I shouldn't be too far away from you. :cool:

please feel free ....iether my place or your? if you close

as I say the effects are repeatable ..but not always identical ie I've had both good and bad effects ...a lot depends on the room and its construction ..

effem's room was a enclosed balconey on stilts with lots of glass ....his missus could feel the effects from several rooms away ...and as said we were feeling quite queasy .

As opposed to a chap up near molton[?] north yorkshire moors ... could not believe the positive effect.

my room has the effect of having upgraded all the bits of kit [like having a new and better system ] ...

even the humble tv sounds better .....my wife likened it to having the volume turned up [she thought thats what I done when she left the room then came back ]..

A friend who plays guitar was intruged to find that with the unit switched on his electronic guitar tune behaved rather unusually when a string was plucked .....


so the effect of my unit may not just be on the human subject ...

the german blurb for my device suggests that it alters the way sound travels through air ....not certain if I believe that ?

an experiment that I did .....with a mate was to close all the doors to a room and sit very still ...then light a incense stick and whatch the plume of smoke rise .....

for the first six inches to a foot the smoke column is rising and able to support the smoke ..above this the smoke roils and its obvious the heat can't support the carried particles [keep them from rising] ....switching the unit on next to the smoke column the laminar flow of the first six inches has now increased to nearly 18 inches before the smoke roils in the turbulent air .


this was repeated a number of times with similar results just to make certain we were not kidding ourselves .

I don't know why it should have these effects ......

theres a bit about the animator here

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/phonosophie/visit.html

colinB
12-02-2011, 11:33
If this guy is so concerned about our spiritual welfare why is he charging £150 for what looks to be a wallwart. Must be one hell of a mark up.
A business model Rupert Murdoch would be proud of.

zanash
12-02-2011, 12:05
does that comment have any revalance to the thread ?

have you used or heard the object under discussion ?

or does it upset you that something ..so off the wall can have an impact on the percived sound ?

Marco
12-02-2011, 12:22
I hope you reconsider Steve as your contributions to AOS are valuable and as I have met you, I can also say that your a really nice guy too and I would miss you if you left AOS.


+1. Steve, you have a PM, as has Geoff :)

Marco.

colinB
12-02-2011, 12:58
does that comment have any revalance to the thread ?

have you used or heard the object under discussion ?

or does it upset you that something ..so off the wall can have an impact on the percived sound ?

Sorry mate no time for a heated discussion as im off to meditate and polish my Shakti stones.

The Grand Wazoo
12-02-2011, 13:51
I'm going to ask this question again, because it seems to have been overlooked:


The OP mentioned that there was some solid science relating to this. Would someone mind enlightening me please? So far all we know is that there's a box with a switch on it. You've told us of the effects that you perceive - what does the box do?

..............any news on that front?

Marco
12-02-2011, 13:55
Yes, I'd be interested, too! :)

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
12-02-2011, 14:01
It looks like it generates a 7.83Hz magnetic field (http://healingearth.co.uk/TheSchumannResonator.aspx)

There was another much more interesting link on this thread yesterday that i can't find now :scratch: :doh:

The Grand Wazoo
12-02-2011, 14:10
I think you can get something similar for a bit less than £150...................



























Shoe / Man Synchroniser:




http://www.thistlehelp.co.uk/dressing/images/PR55028_shoe_horn.jpg

Reid Malenfant
12-02-2011, 14:17
:lolsign:


Well it wouldn't be difficult to replicate the thing ;) A Wein bridge oscillator feeding a small low power amplifier feeding an electromagnet :eyebrows:

aquapiranha
12-02-2011, 19:31
In the light of comments made and PM's to me I will continue to post. I might add that as of next month, the ASA have the power to question on line ads as they do those in print (as the comedian RA found out recently) and I am going to make it my personal crusade to report any of these companies that make wild, outlandish and unfounded claims for these products. I honestly believe they are no better than fraudsters and therefore I for one will do something about them.

Reid Malenfant
12-02-2011, 19:33
Thanks for sticking about Steve & good to see you on here again :) Now where's your avatar? :scratch:

aquapiranha
12-02-2011, 19:46
Thanks for sticking about Steve & good to see you on here again :) Now where's your avatar? :scratch:

all under consideration..... :lol:

Alex_UK
12-02-2011, 20:05
In the light of comments made and PM's to me I will continue to post. I might add that as of next month, the ASA have the power to question on line ads as they do those in print (as the comedian RA found out recently) and I am going to make it my personal crusade to report any of these companies that make wild, outlandish and unfounded claims for these products. I honestly believe they are no better than fraudsters and therefore I for one will do something about them.

Good news. :) Never has a forum user's title been more appropriate!

The Grand Wazoo
12-02-2011, 20:32
Good choice Steve.

zanash
13-02-2011, 12:14
what is the matter with you ?

I've offer to demo my unit ...
either you come to me or I to you [assuming distance are within the bounds of reason ]

If I can't get to you ...there must be someone in the midlands that you have trust in ..that could either listen or host a session ?


I can't understand why your so upset .....


I ought to add that I have no connection to the company selling these units other than that of a very satisfied customer.

or is it that this is just too far outside your comfort zone ?

I've found some reviews of my unit....though these have been translated from the german ..by babel fish ...you can get the hint of what other people have found.


firstly for those that can read german ....

schön ist es doch, daß bei
unserem Hifi-Hobby alles meßbar und
damit belegbar ist. Über nahezu jedes
Detail haben sich Entwickler schon
reichlich Gedanken gemacht. Jeder
kennt beispielsweise recht genau die
Wege, die ein Signal in einer Kette
durchläuft, bis es schließlich zum
Endpunkt, dem Chassis, gelangt. Dort
durchfließt es eine Spule, die umgeben
ist von einem Magnetfeld und die im
Takt der Musik vor- und zurückschwingt.
Mit der Spule ist in der Regel
eine aus welchem Material auch immer
gefertigte Membran verbunden. Diese
Membran wiederum gibt die zuvor
erzeugten Schwingungen an die Luft
weiter. Und genau bis zu diesem Punkt
diskutiert die audiophile Szene (mehr
oder weniger seriös) über alle möglichen
Eventualitäten.
Doch was ist eigentlich mit den
Eigenschaften der Luft? Ist Luft wirklich
gleich Luft? Was bewirkt zum
Beispiel ein hoher Anteil an Feuchtigkeit
in der Luft? Vor allem stellt sich die
Frage, ob sich die Struktur des Mediums
Luft auf die Qualität des Klangs
auswirken kann? Falls ja, kann man die
Struktur der Luft manipulieren und
damit auch klangliche Veränderungen
herbeiführen? Über dieses Fachgebiet
wissen wir relativ wenig. Wenn ich sage
"wir", meine ich nicht Othmar Spitaler,
der sich mit dem strukturellen Aufbau
der Luft seit langem sehr intensiv
beschäftigt. Bekannt wurde er bei uns
einer breiteren Öffentlichkeit als der
geistige Vater des Audioanimators,
eines mit speziellen Quarzen gefüllten
Messingstabs. Seine neuste Entwicklung
ist der "Raumanimator", ein kleiner
kreisrunder, silberfarbener Block, etwa
fünf Zentimeter hoch mit einer mittig
auf der Oberseite eingelassenen hellblau
strahlenden Diode. In audiophilen
Kreisen erzählt man sich wahre Wunderdinge
davon, wie er den Klang im
Hörraum beeinflussen soll. Zur Technik
kann uns der deutsche Vertrieb
Phonosophie nur wenig erzählen und
verweist weiter auf den Entwickler aus
Österreich.
Im Innern des Raumanimators befinden
sich, so Othmar Spitaler, wiederum
ausgesuchte Quarzkristalle, die
bezüglich ihrer inneren Struktur eine
geometrische Idealform besitzen sollen.
Diese Quarze haben die natürliche
Eigenschaft, in einem bestimmten Takt
und einer bestimmten Frequenz zu
schwingen. Othmar Spitaler sagt, er
habe nun einen Weg gefunden, exakte,
harmonische Schwingungsmuster von
Quarzen über Licht als Informationsträger,
daher die blaue Leuchtdiode, an
die Luft weiterzugeben. Im Ergebnis
bedeute es, so Othmar Spitaler weiter,

die Atmosphäre im Raum werde energetisch
behandelt, wobei die anfangs
noch unregelmäßig schwingenden Luftmoleküle
in ein neues geordnetes
Schwingungsraster eingebunden würden.
Somit ließe sich auch der Klang im
Raum verbessern. Der Raumanimator
müsse zudem ständig am Netz bleiben,
weil über die Betriebsspannung die
blaue Diode gespeist würde. Soweit die
für Laien nicht immer leicht nachvollziehbaren
Erkenntnisse über das
Schwingungsverhalten von Quarzen,
dessen Erforschung sich der Österreicher
seit mehr als einem Jahrzehnt widmet.
Der eigentliche Clou kommt aber
noch.
Denn es ist laut Othmar Spitaler
wohl so, daß die Quarze zwar in ihrem
Urzustand schwingen, das allerdings
nicht in der Intensität, die nötig wäre,
den zuvor beschriebenen molekularordnenden
Effekt zu erreichen. Deshalb
suchte Othmar Spitaler nach einer Möglichkeit,
die Quarze derart zu behandeln,
daß die Schwingungsintensität
drastisch erhöht wird. Diese Möglichkeit
gibt es scheinbar und sie wird von
ihm als Firmengeheimnis gehütet wie
der eigene Augapfel. Sie sei bis heute
sicherlich weltweit einzigartig, meint der
Entwickler. Unterm Strich ginge es dabei
um Hochfrequenzenergie und einem
Verstärkungsfaktor, der weit über
dem Tausendfachen des Normalen läge.
Werden Quarze einmal in dieser Form

nebenbei die Aufnahmetechnik
werden mit diesem Zubehör
zum Teil wesentlich deutlicher. Es ist
dann immer dieselbe Geige in immer
demselben Raum, weil nämlich Grundund
Obertöne unzerrissen sind und als
ein zusammengehörendes Ganzes präsentiert
werden (Mozart; "Duo in GK
423"/Igor und David Oistrach; Decca
SXL 6088). Stimmen haben nicht zuletzt
deswegen mehr Geschmeidigkeit,
Biegsamkeit und anmutendes Timbre,
wie man es sich oft wünscht und darüber
hinaus einen lebendigen Atem
(Esther; ATR LP 001). Das meine ich
durchaus wörtlich. Wer in der kalten
Jahreszeit mal nach draußen geht,
braucht nur ein paar Töne im Freien zu
singen, um an der Atemwolke zu sehen,
daß sie sich mit jedem Ton und jeder
Phrasierung ändert. Wenn man mit dem
Raumanimator über eine exzellente
Anlage Musik hört, kann man die Augen
schließen und den Atem der
Sängerin (Ester) oder des Sängers (Ella
und Louis; Verve 4003) "sehen". Zumindest
habe ich bislang "his Master's
Voice" noch nie lebendig wahrgenommen
wie mit dem Raumanimator.
Klassische Kriterien sind auch die
"links-rechts/oben-unten/vorn-hinten"-
Ortung. Nun ist es unrealistisch
von einer Hifi-Anlage zu erwarten, sie
könne ein ganzes Orchester ins Wohnzimmer
holen. Dennoch vermittelt sie
häufig eine Sicht durch ein imaginäres
Fenster auf die Musiker und damit eine
Vorstellung von den Raumdimensionen,
die sich in alle Richtungen mehr
oder minder weit erstrecken. Leichter
nachvollziehbar ist diese Eigenschaft

eine solche Wahrnehmung allerdings.
Und genau da liegt eine weitere Stärke
des Raumanimators. Mit seiner Hilfe
löst sich das begrenzende Fenster auf
und man erlebt wieder mehr Musik
(Corelli; "Concerto Grosso No. 8";
Decca SXL 2265). Das hat zwingend
zur Folge, daß über das formale Wahrnehmen
von Tönen hinaus, mehr Empfindungen
beim Hörer wachgerufen
werden. Wer ganzheitlich hören kann,
dem wird die Musik mit dem Raumanimator
viel nähergehen, sie wird ihn
besser erreichen und ansprechen. Wie
diese Mehr-Informationen den einzelnen
Hörer erreichen, ist selbstverständlich
aufgrund der subtilen Art jedes Mal
anders. Ich fühle mich mit dem Raumanimator
stärker in das musikalische
Geschehen einbezogen und bin deshalb
viel eher bereit, die Grenzen von Hifi zu
vergessen. Der Raumanimator schafft
für mich mehr Musik, mehr Klang,
mehr Freude beim Hören. Ich bin auch
sicher, er macht audiophile






In the light of comments made and PM's to me I will continue to post. I might add that as of next month, the ASA have the power to question on line ads as they do those in print (as the comedian RA found out recently) and I am going to make it my personal crusade to report any of these companies that make wild, outlandish and unfounded claims for these products. I honestly believe they are no better than fraudsters and therefore I for one will do something about them.

zanash
13-02-2011, 12:15
and secondly for those that can't ...I've not attemped to interpolate any of the wording ...so make the best of it you can !


beautiful is it nevertheless that with our Hifi hobby everything is measurable and thus provable. Over almost any detail developer thought already plentifully. Everyone finally knows for example quite exactly the ways, which a signal in a chain goes through, to it to the terminator point, to which chassis arrives. There it flows through a coil, which is surrounded by a magnetic field and in the clock of the music pre and back-swung. With the coil usually a diaphragm always manufactured from whatever material is connected. This diaphragm again passes the oscillations on produced before to air. And up to this point the audiophile scene (more or less respectable) discusses all possible eventualities exactly. But which is actually with the characteristics of air? Is air real equal to air? What causes for example a high portion of humidity in air? Above all does the question arise whether the structure of the medium air can affect the quality of the sound? If, can one manipulate the structure of air and cause concomitantly klangliche changes? About this field of activity we know relatively few. If I mean legend "we", I not Othmar Spitaler, which is occupied for a long time very intensively with the structural structure of air. Admits became it with us of a broader public than the mental father of the Audioanimators, a Messingstabs filled with special quartz. Its newest development is about five centimeters highly centric with one the "Raumanimator", a small circular, silver block, on the top side let in light blue radiating diode. In audiophilen circles one tells oneself true miracle things how he is to affect the sound in the hearing area. To the technology the German selling Phonosophie can tell us only little and continues to refer to the developer from Austria. In the inside of the Raumanimators are, thus Othmar Spitaler, again select quartz crystals, which are to possess a geometrical ideal form concerning their internal structure. These quartz have the natural characteristic to swing in a certain clock and a certain frequency. Othmar Spitaler says, he found now a way, accurate, harmonious oscillation samples of quartz over light as storage medium, the blue light emitting diode to pass on to air. In the result continue to mean it, so Othmar Spitaler, the atmosphere in the area is energetically treated, whereby the at first still irregularly swinging air molecules were merged in a new arranged oscillation raster. Thus also the sound in the area could be improved. The Raumanimator must at the net remain besides constant, because over the operating voltage the blue diode was fed. So far not always the realizations over the vibration response of quartz, easily comprehensible for laymen, whose research dedicates itself the Austrian since more than one decade. The actual Clou comes however still. Because it is according to Othmar Spitaler probably like that that the quartz swing in their original state, however not in the intensity, which would be necessary to achieve the molecular-arranging effect described before. Therefore Othmar Spitaler looked for for a possibility of treating the quartz in such a manner that the oscillation intensity is drastically increased. This possibility gives it apparently and it of it as firm secret is guarded like the own eyeball. It is today surely world-wide singular until, means the developer. Unterm line would go it thereby around high frequency energy and to an amplification factor, which would lie far over thousandfold of the normal one. Become quartz once in this form besides the recording technology become partially substantially clearer with this accessories. It is then always the same violin in always the same area, because Grundund of overtones unzerrissen are and as a belonging together whole are presented (Mozart; "duo in GK 423"/Igor and David Oistrach; Decca SXL 6088). Voices have not least therefore more suppleness, pliancy and seeming Timbre, like one it beyond that often wish themselves and an alive breath (Esther; ATR LP 001). I mean quite literal. Who goes in the cold season times to outside, it needs to sing only a few tones in the free one, in order to see at the breath cloud that she changes with each clay/tone and each Phrasierung. If one hears with the Raumanimator over a exzellente plant music, one can close the eyes and the breath of the singer (ester) or the singer (Ella and Louis; Verve 4003) "see". At least I did not notice so far "his Master's Voice" ever alive as with the Raumanimator. Classical criteria are also "left right/above down/in front in the back" - the detection. Now it is to be expected unrealistically from a Hifi plant to, it can get a whole orchestra in the living room. They nevertheless obtain frequently a view by an imaginary window on the musicians and thus a conception of the space dimensions, which extend in all directions more or less far. This characteristic is more easily comprehensible such a perception however. And a further strength of the Raumanimators lies exactly there. With its assistance the limiting window dissolves and one deeply felt again more music (Corelli; "Concerto Grosso NO. 8"; Decca SXL 2265). That has compellingly as a consequence that over formal noticing of tones outside, more feelings with the listener are evoked. Who can hear holistic, the music with the Raumanimator will closer-go to that much, it it will better reach and will address. As these multi-information reaches the individual listener, naturally each mark is different due to the subtle kind. I feel more strongly included into the musical happening with the Raumanimator and am therefore much rather ready to forget the borders from Hifi to. The Raumanimator creates more music, more sound, more joy for me when hearing. I am also safe, he make audiophile

zanash
13-02-2011, 12:26
Some clues can be found from the unit and the instructions

the unit contains rhombic quartz ..for those amongst us that have studied crystalography the normal for of quatrz is trigonal. Quartz has the happy nack that if squeezed will produce a peizo effect ...ie enough juice to spark a lighter ...or if a current is applied to a crystal it will resonate ...and can be used for timing purposes ...

also if you rub two quartz crystals together in the dark ...you get triboluminesance ....may be what people see ..when they see lights in the sky at the time of an earthquake ?

secondly my unit contains a vial of fluid ..that will freeze if exposed to subzero temps ....

about once a month the unit needs to be refrigerated to about 6 degree c ....


don't ask me why ..as I don't know ! other than tto keep the unit working ...

These properties must have some infuence on the activities of the unit . Someone with more brain power than me can certainly peice the parts together and come up with a more definative answer ?

if you have read the six moon piece ...and the rest of this ...even the most skeptic ..must be starting to wonder if there's anything in this ...[if not then I must assume your inquisitiveness has past on !]

I repeat if anyone is intrigued enough to want a listen ...please contact me !

can't say fairer than that ...

so far none of the synics have ....why am I not surprised !

John
13-02-2011, 13:06
Zanish
What I suggest is bring it along to Scalford Hall in March and let people decide for themselves

aquapiranha
13-02-2011, 15:13
Pete, there is nothing 'wrong' with me. In fact, I consider myself a rational and sane person. Perhaps this is why I am less able to believe some of the wilder claims from charlatans flogging bits of plastic and LED's and claiming they have magical powers based on pseudo-science ripped out of the pages of a legitimate science book and changed or altered to suit the marketing needs of the product. How many times do we see words like 'quantum' used to sell these trinkets? Look at the amount and diversity of them, from belts utter pish to RA and his pathetic attempts to sex up bits of tat with the addition of so called science, and then there are magic stones, magic clocks, magic curly wurly coat hangers (as in my avatar) bits of paper, bottles of coloured water with astonishing powers when rubbed on light bulbs, magic telephone calls, magic pens, magic cd's, magic bits of plastic with lights on them, magic 'chips'... the list is endless. And what is the one thing all these things have in common? (apart from the fact there are some who will suspend all rational thought and fall for their claims) yes, you guessed it, they all cost an inordinate amount of money! Well, what a surprise.

You can quote all you like from nut job sites like 6 loons Pete, it will make not a jot of difference to my thinking. You see there are two types of people, those that will believe blindly anything people tell them, especially when they have some scientific sounding 'evidence' and the word of a few other impressionable people to back them up, and then there are those like me who simply do not fall for marketing spiel, especially when you are expected to pay a premium for it.


This hobby has become awash with stupid products aimed at stupid people, and I no longer want to be associated with these people. So, it means I can shut up and do nothing, or I can challenge the con artists to prove to the ASA the outlandish claims they are making are proven and not just a way to extract money from the gullible. If they can do it then great, but I have a feeling that RA for example is going to have a hard time of it.

:)

The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2011, 17:35
There is a third type of person steve - one that I sometimes wonder if I am the only one ... The type of person who is willing to accept that anything is a possibility, yet through "common sence" remains slightly skeptical...

We have to have our wits about us so as to not get ripped off, but go to far and you start to tread the line of closing ones self to possibility...

I'm not saying you are doing this in this instance, I have no experience of this product to comment either way ... But that's sort o my point in it's self ...

I do actually agree with you to a point that shisters should be outed, making money out of people stupidity isn't very nice thing to do ... And potentially harmful (when put in the context of homeotherapy etc) ... But the problem is, the people making these things often believe in them selves that what are are doing isnt lying or deception... And if that belief is shared then someone else might get (in the context of hifi) an increase enjoyment to the value of what they have spent ...

And the fact remains, that people do hear or perceive differences with these products in place ... Now you may say they are being fooled ... And they might ...
But who's to say these things don't work through some sort of science we are yet to discover ...
Who's to say that some of these pseudo sciences, through investigation might not become recognised?
I would have thought there are a lot of things we understand nowadays that at some stage in history would have been concidered insane

That is of course where people of your conviction come in ... There needs to be someone to say "now hold on a minute, that sound like shit to me... This guys a shyster, let's investigate his claims" ...

You are that side of the issue, I am in the middle, happy to accept the possibility... But tentative and conscious of where I spend my money...

And then there are the people on other side of the issue ... The people who buy this stuff blindly ... They are of course the victims innyour eyes ... But for those it works for them they obviously feel differently

Now I know this convo always inevitably ends in the world of homeopathy and the dangers of ignoreing modern recognised medicine ... But I think there is very probably weight in some of the claims made by alternative medicines ... At very least through the fact that they often provide hope, and that's probably quite an important thing in recovery ...

Now there are shysters that prey on people who believe ... And once again that's were you come in ... To investigate peoples claims ... Scrutinise the way that they run thier business ... Etc

But at the end of the day, you can't stop people making choices to buy into these things if they so desire ... It's Everyones job to help people make the right decision - in the case of hifi pointing out to people when they might be being fooled - in the case of "alternative" medicines, to make sure they are complimentary as aposed to alternative for eg ... But peoples choices are thier own... And that's important I think!

The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2011, 17:45
Oh yeah... I don't leave the forum ... It's the likes of you here that prevent it from going far to airy fairy and subjective ... Someone has to ask the obvious questions of these fringe thing round here! :)

zanash
14-02-2011, 08:25
Zanish
What I suggest is bring it along to Scalford Hall in March and let people decide for themselves

would love too ..but I'm away on another unrelated event that weekend .....

I might be persuaded to loan the unit to a contributor ....but would need to get the unit to them before the show so they can get the best out of it ...

zanash
14-02-2011, 08:28
Pete, there is nothing 'wrong' with me. In fact, I consider myself a rational and sane person. Perhaps this is why I am less able to believe some of the wilder claims from charlatans flogging bits of plastic and LED's and claiming they have magical powers based on pseudo-science ripped out of the pages of a legitimate science book and changed or altered to suit the marketing needs of the product. How many times do we see words like 'quantum' used to sell these trinkets? Look at the amount and diversity of them, from belts utter pish to RA and his pathetic attempts to sex up bits of tat with the addition of so called science, and then there are magic stones, magic clocks, magic curly wurly coat hangers (as in my avatar) bits of paper, bottles of coloured water with astonishing powers when rubbed on light bulbs, magic telephone calls, magic pens, magic cd's, magic bits of plastic with lights on them, magic 'chips'... the list is endless. And what is the one thing all these things have in common? (apart from the fact there are some who will suspend all rational thought and fall for their claims) yes, you guessed it, they all cost an inordinate amount of money! Well, what a surprise.

You can quote all you like from nut job sites like 6 loons Pete, it will make not a jot of difference to my thinking. You see there are two types of people, those that will believe blindly anything people tell them, especially when they have some scientific sounding 'evidence' and the word of a few other impressionable people to back them up, and then there are those like me who simply do not fall for marketing spiel, especially when you are expected to pay a premium for it.


This hobby has become awash with stupid products aimed at stupid people, and I no longer want to be associated with these people. So, it means I can shut up and do nothing, or I can challenge the con artists to prove to the ASA the outlandish claims they are making are proven and not just a way to extract money from the gullible. If they can do it then great, but I have a feeling that RA for example is going to have a hard time of it.

:)

I repeat my offer of bringing the unit over to you ...assuming your not too far away or a central meeting point of your choice ?

can't say fairer than that ...


then you can speak from the point of experience raher than ignorance.

so how about it ...?

zanash
14-02-2011, 08:30
Oh ...your in NI difficult for me to get over there ..

but Worcester close enough to get down to with ease ....!


I could bring a few other things that some claim can't possibly work too ...

MartinT
14-02-2011, 08:33
If they can do it then great, but I have a feeling that RA for example is going to have a hard time of it. :)

To give a balancing view: RA is not guilty of doing anything that any other cable vendor has not also done; the ASA have challenged him and he has found that his claims are impossible to verify. If any other vendor is challenged by the ASA in the same way, then they will have difficulties too.

So it remains: are RA's products rubbish? I don't think so, and my system says not. We come back to the reality that we cannot yet properly measure what we can hear. I don't know whether a Powerkord works by filtering out RFI; frankly, I don't care because it's effective and sounds better than a standard kettle lead. Also remember that Ray Kimber is behind many of RA's products and he knows a thing or two about cables. Challenging Kimber would be a spectacle worth watching.

Just asking that you focus your anger at the appropriate subjects.

geofff
14-02-2011, 09:26
I joined this forum after a careful consideration of the site’s Ethos and FAQ. This suggested that posts would not be subject to the ranting and bullying found on other fora. I hoped that it would be a place where different opinions could be discussed freely and openly, and others’ views respected.

Zanash and I have found a means to enhance our musical enjoyment in a meaningful way, and Zanash has replicated this finding with his many demonstrations to others. I thought that others may be interested in such findings. I thought that we were all on the same side – that of increasing our pleasure in reproducing music.

You are welcome to your world view, Mr. Piranha. What I object to, however, is that you seek to deny others their personal world view and their experiences. By submitting such an attack on fellows’ posts, you stifle discussion and you bully others into keeping quiet about their experiences. Your forthright attack has effectively shut the door on people submitting their opinions on non-mainstream topics for fear of being shouted down. This is what I find most damaging and disappointing about your actions.

The scientific method is used to determine whether a cause has a particular effect, not blind assertion. We don’t know everything, Mr. Piranha, and we never will.

However, you have won, Mr. Piranha. I’m not interested in having my experiences negated and ridiculed by the arrogance of ignorance. I don’t wish to be a part of this forum anymore.

John
14-02-2011, 09:38
The forum takes a subjective stance to tweaks but we also like to have evidence. Perhaps Zanish can find someone local who take this to Scalford so we can hear for ourselves If he wishes he can post to me I take it up but I do not live local so not able to pick up the unit
In the end people hear trusts their ears and experience

MartinT
14-02-2011, 09:38
I hope you'll reconsider, Geoff. We may challenge your assertions but there should be no bullying tolerated anywhere on this forum.

John
14-02-2011, 09:39
Agree its ok to challenge views but bullying no

The Grand Wazoo
14-02-2011, 10:10
I don't think any bullying has occurred - Steve has a point of view as do the pro people. But several others have contributed to the discussion.
I don't think my question has yet been answered.

Beechwoods
14-02-2011, 10:33
Absolutely. If everyone agreed it would be a pretty boring discussion. Steve happens to have very strong views on the 'extreme subjective' end of our hobby, but there's a difference between making those points strongly, and bullying, which I haven't seen any evidence of either.

These accessories tend to polarise opinion; it's to be expected that discussions about their virtues will attract contrary views too. It's important that these aren't taken personally, by any involved in the discussion.

jantheman
14-02-2011, 10:41
It's important that these aren't taken personally, by any involved in the discussion.

That, sometimes, is the hard part........

Marco
14-02-2011, 10:49
Hi Geoff,

I'm sorry to hear of your decision to leave AoS and would ask you to reconsider.

Steve, certainly has strong views on these types of tweaks, and I would agree that his opening post, where enlarged and emboldened text was used to effectively 'shout', was somewhat over the top, but I don't see any evidence of bullying; simply robust challenging of why the Schumann Synchroniser should work from a scientific point of view.

If there were any real evidence of bullying, I can assure you that it would not be tolerated.

I think the problem here is that Steve has allowed his ire for products he considers are a rip-off to affect his polite treating of you as both a new member and an audio enthusiast, and so you feel that your valid opinion on the efficacy of this product (and it is valid, no matter what anyone thinks) is being rather rudely dismissed.

I have sympathy for that view, and would ask Steve to tread a little more carefully in future by playing the ball more and not the man, as it were, and aiming his frustration at a target nearer the source of the issue.

However, Steve was quite right to challenge the efficacy of the Schumann, because *if* it is pure snake oil (and the jury is still out at the moment for most of us) then such products deserve to be exposed for the nonsense they are, along with the shysters behind them, as it is unfortunately these types of items (and people) which give the subjectivist nature of hi-fi a bad name, by in turn devaluing products which really do work, such as specialist cables and equipment supports, amongst others.

The reason why those items genuinely work is because their effect is measurable (presuming one knows what to measure and has the correct apparatus to facilitate the procedure) and is therefore scientifically provable, whereas, as far as I'm aware, the effect of the Schumann Synchroniser isn't.

On AoS, robust debating on any subject is always welcomed, but it must be done whilst showing respect for the opinions of those we're debating with, and in that respect, on this occasion we've fallen a little short of those standards, which is why I would ask you to reconsider leaving and give us another chance.

However, if you choose not to, then I respect your decision and wish you well for the future :)

Marco.

Alex_UK
14-02-2011, 10:52
OK, well let's try and discuss the devices in question a bit more. On the assumption that everyone accepts that they are intended to influence the listener and not the equipment (have I got that right?) - then I personally find it very worrying that zanash has suffered some sinus pain, and both zanash and effem were made to feel queasy. Personally, i would be more concerned about the detrimental effects of these units than I would about the possible sonic benefits! I'm no scientist or electronics whizz, but I'm still very interested in learning the science behind how this device works, and what it is that could be causing physiological changes both good and bad - and seeing inside one and how it actually does it's business. I think that is not dissimilar to the question Chris (Wazoo) has asked three times now, and I did already too - has anyone got any further information on this, please?

aquapiranha
14-02-2011, 11:00
Apologies to all if you think I have been 'bullying' but I just see it as robust disagreement! The crux of the issue is this, there is no, has been no, and for the forseeable future there will be no properly performed trials for these so called 'enhancement products' only the say so of a couple of people coupled with the jibberish and pseudo science on the website. If you want to believe this kind of thing, fine, but how you expect to be taken seriously as the tiny minority within another tiny minority of those who take on faith something that the manufacturer makes wild claims for yet can't prove while still charging HUNDREDS of pounds for the box with a light in, well, let's just say it is your money! And yes, you are right, it IS your money and you can do whatever you please with it, but please do not try to subsequently convert me to the way of 'crystal magic' you will be telling us water has 'memory' next. Oh, wait a minute....

You believe the crap, I don't.

EDIT. I love music, and I love finding better ways to enjoy it. But I will not sit back and have this hobby made a laughing stock by clowns whose only interest is to make money, an easy way to that is to make a 'wonder' product with a light on it and make wild claims about it's ability on an unregulated (soon to change) website. There will always be people who will buy this stuff on spec, and that is what they are hoping for. I do not really wish to dwell on it now though as you can tell I have strong views on this subject, and I am am sure you all have too.



:scratch:

Reid Malenfant
14-02-2011, 11:00
I think that is not dissimilar to teh questing Chris (Wazoo) has asked three times now, and I did too - has anyone got any further information on this, please?
As i already mentioned it appears to be a low frequency magnetic field generator (7.83Hz) :) This is a pretty close frequency to that of Alpha waves in our brains, other than that you'll just have to follow the odd link on here & do some research yourself ;)

It kind of reminds me of the "does beer make music sound better" thread, if you are going to alter your own perception there are plenty of ways of doing it :cool: :drugs: :idea:

aquapiranha
14-02-2011, 11:11
As i already mentioned it appears to be a low frequency magnetic field generator (7.83Hz) :) This is a pretty close frequency to that of Alpha waves in our brains, other than that you'll just have to follow the odd link on here & do some research yourself ;)

It kind of reminds me of the "does beer make music sound better" thread, if you are going to alter your own perception there are plenty of ways of doing it :cool: :drugs: :idea:

hi Mark. I see what they are trying to say about the product re; alpha waves, but this then leads you to accept that humans are somehow able to recieve these waves, another massive leap of faith I am guessing?

The Grand Wazoo
14-02-2011, 11:25
I think for this discussion to continue meaningfully, we need to have some sort of proper explanation of the theory that's being propounded. Of course, we can all go off & do our own reading, but I would expect some proper description of the principles that this thing is supposed to work by.
I don't think we've had that yet.

aquapiranha
14-02-2011, 11:30
I think for this discussion to continue meaningfully, we need to have some sort of proper explanation of the theory that's being propounded. Of course, we can all go off & do our own reading, but I would expect some proper description of the principles that this thing is supposed to work by.
I don't think we've had that yet.

from Pete's earlier post..

the unit contains rhombic quartz ..for those amongst us that have studied crystalography the normal for of quatrz is trigonal. Quartz has the happy nack that if squeezed will produce a peizo effect ...ie enough juice to spark a lighter ...or if a current is applied to a crystal it will resonate ...and can be used for timing purposes ...

also if you rub two quartz crystals together in the dark ...you get triboluminesance ....may be what people see ..when they see lights in the sky at the time of an earthquake ?

secondly my unit contains a vial of fluid ..that will freeze if exposed to subzero temps ....

about once a month the unit needs to be refrigerated to about 6 degree c ....

Reid Malenfant
14-02-2011, 11:33
hi Mark. I see what they are trying to say about the product re; alpha waves, but this then leads you to accept that humans are somehow able to recieve these waves, another massive leap of faith I am guessing?
I'm not sure at all about that Steve if i'm being honest. I mean they can map the brain in incredible detail using magnetic resonance imaging & actually see where people respond to different thoughts & other stimuli as of late :scratch:

I'd imagine that when using MRI that the frequencies involved would be orders of magnitude higher than 7.83Hz so they could get more detail.

In case you haven't noticed this also happens to be about the same frequency that strobe effects cause people to have fits :scratch: There is definately some kind of correlation between that frequency & the workings of our brains, whether or not a low level magnetic field at that frequency would affect someone i really don't know...

aquapiranha
14-02-2011, 11:44
I'm not sure at all about that Steve if i'm being honest. I mean they can map the brain in incredible detail using magnetic resonance imaging & actually see where people respond to different thoughts & other stimuli as of late :scratch:

I'd imagine that when using MRI that the frequencies involved would be orders of magnitude higher than 7.83Hz so they could get more detail.

In case you haven't noticed this also happens to be about the same frequency that strobe effects cause people to have fits :scratch: There is definately some kind of correlation between that frequency & the workings of our brains, whether or not a low level magnetic field at that frequency would affect someone i really don't know...

Still dont see how our brains are able to 'see' this phenomeneon, perhaps I need to suspend my disbeleif MRI picks up tiny currents in the brain, not sure how this is supposed to be the same thing? Anyway, I am off now to www.conspiracytheories.com :lol:

John
14-02-2011, 11:47
Like Alex I be more concerned if they are giving me a nose bleed when in use
The area we talking is around perception I think at the moment it not really possible to measure at this level (sorry I am not scientist I just enjoy music).
I think for most of us improvements can be gotten in so many other ways like a simple change of speaker position. This tweak is on the extreme side of subjectivism and it should be questioned and debated.

The Grand Wazoo
14-02-2011, 11:55
from Pete's earlier post..

the unit contains rhombic quartz ..for those amongst us that have studied crystalography the normal for of quatrz is trigonal. Quartz has the happy nack that if squeezed will produce a peizo effect ...ie enough juice to spark a lighter ...or if a current is applied to a crystal it will resonate ...and can be used for timing purposes ...

also if you rub two quartz crystals together in the dark ...you get triboluminesance ....may be what people see ..when they see lights in the sky at the time of an earthquake ?

secondly my unit contains a vial of fluid ..that will freeze if exposed to subzero temps ....

about once a month the unit needs to be refrigerated to about 6 degree c ....

Yes, I read that but I'm none the wiser.
Are crystals being squeezed or rubbed together in the dark?
...or is a current being applied?

So far we have an incomplete list of things that crystals do. What does this crystal do in this machine?


the unit contains rhombic quartz
OK so we know what shape the crystal is.........


....for those amongst us that have studied crystalography the normal for of quatrz is trigonal

Not many of us have studied crystalography - what does this sentence mean in relation to what has already been said about this machine?

jonners
14-02-2011, 13:26
The idea behind the Schumann devices, inasmuch as I understand it, goes as follows:
1. The Schumann resonance is a low-level, low frequency electromagnetic wave that has been present planet-wide longer than life itself. Hence we have evolved in its presence.
2.There is evidence that human beings are extremely sensitive to electromagnetic waves at certain frequencies. Respectable scientists such as James Oschmann and Mae Wan-Ho have investigated this.
3. The proliferation of EM waves generated by human activity may be affecting us by interfering with our ability to 'tune in' to the Schumann resonance at some level. There is no doubt that certain individuals can be very badly affected by EM radiation, from mobile phones for example.
4. Hence by generating the 7.8Hz wave locally we may be able to 'lock on' more easily to that frequency so that EM pollution has less affect on us.

I have made my own 7.8Hz EM generator (there is a thread on diyAudio about this) and so far all I can say is that the effects, for me at least, are not dramatic and could be non-existent. However I will experiment further and may involve a friend who is much more sensitive to EM radiation than I am.

The Grand Wazoo
14-02-2011, 13:29
Thank you John.

Alex_UK
14-02-2011, 13:38
Hi John, any chance you could post a link to the thread on diyaudio? Tried a few searches but not much luck.

colinB
14-02-2011, 14:58
I went for accupuncture once and the guy told me to wear a mechanical watch and to avoid quartz watches due to there influence on the body.
Now im sensitive enough to pick up static on a record and ive felt very odd while walking near pylons but the watch thing makes no difference to me.
If you can pick up on this sort of thing then fair enough but you cant go making absolute truths about something and not back it up with data.
Thats how fundamental religions start.

jonners
14-02-2011, 18:50
Hi John, any chance you could post a link to the thread on diyaudio? Tried a few searches but not much luck.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/162477-diy-schumann-resonator.html

zanash
15-02-2011, 09:25
Yes, I read that but I'm none the wiser.
Are crystals being squeezed or rubbed together in the dark?
...or is a current being applied?

So far we have an incomplete list of things that crystals do. What does this crystal do in this machine?


OK so we know what shape the crystal is.........



Not many of us have studied crystalography - what does this sentence mean in relation to what has already been said about this machine?


I thought you could look it up as its easier to read than for me to try and explain...

As to why these things work ...I've no idea..

certainly the phonosophie unit ...has an explaination about air ....but I'm not convinced ..

if the room animator is a shucman device ..then it affects the listener not the air.

but that said ...I've seen the ability of air to longer hold a column of smoke with the unit on ...

also the ecxperience with the guitar tuner , suggests that its not just the person thats being effected ...


Is there no one wanting to here the unit in there own system ?

I would have thought some of the synics would have jumped at the chance to prove there possition !

aquapiranha
15-02-2011, 09:37
Pete, I am not sure it us 'cynics' who need to prove our position? after all, it is not us who are saying that there is an otherwise non proven effect made by these expensive devices is it? What you are suggesting would be akin to assuming there are aliens and then asking the skeptics to prove that they don't exist. This is the problem I have with many of the more airy fairy theories and non-science about these days, the onus of proof appears to have been shifted from those that believe in magic to those that don't and that simply does not wash with me. If you claim that unproven pseudo science has an effect, then it is down to the makers and fans of these products to prove they do something, especially since the peddlers are making money out of it. If a chap announced that he had invented an anti-gravity car, then he would be expected to prove it, it wouldn't be down to us to prove that he hadn't!


Pete, what are your thoughts on machinedynamica? do you believe their products work too? And how about belt stuff, that also? It would help if I knew what your refernce point was.

zanash
16-02-2011, 08:40
what more can I do ...to say I'm happy to travel [within reason ..say 200 mile round trip] to demo the item under discussion , in someone elses sytem and listening room.

I'm confident ..that it will have an effect [can't say good or bad as that appears to be room dependant].

I'm even looking at he possibility of a trip to NI [as there are some nice gold streams to pan !] If a trip is in the offing likely later in the spring early summer ...would you be interested in having a listen ? I'm chatting to the strabane district council as they have a tame gold panning guide ....so it does look rather promising ....

the down side is the ferry ..which is the the most cost effective ?

To make it worth while .....have you heard the glass audio cd lathe ? or cd flux cleanig fluid ?.....I might even have a bellini knocking around [but I can't hear it have any effect in my system ]

your thoughts ?

zanash
16-02-2011, 08:48
as to the machinedynamica....

I've not heard any of there tweaks ....so as past experience has shown it not wise to make sweeping staments about things I'm ignorant of.

But at first glance ..they appear very strange. I'd go as far as saying almost Belt like.

Talking of which I only ever found that there fuse tweak had any effect in my system/sytems ....

the one where you paint the ends of the copper caps [not the contact surfaces ] with a purple pen . Though the act of removing the fuse will clean the contact surfaces and could be the cause of any percived sound difference ...but painting the fuse does allow you to keep an eye on them .

aquapiranha
16-02-2011, 08:58
I am quite convinced that the belt stuff is simply outside the realms of reality, as is all the machine dynamica nonsense. If you are planning on doing some prospecting here I am not sure you will find the streets paved with gold! And, if you are going to Strabane, be careful in the car parks, they have their own mean for the word 'parking' .... :lol:

John
16-02-2011, 09:27
Zanish can you describe how much you think its improved your listening experience and what has been the negative with other peoples rooms. I think for most of us something that is going to very so much and is only interacting in the human perception field and having no effect on audio this is probarly a step to far. I am willing for you to visit me and I will give my experience but if negative I just see "well its room dependent" and us not really achieving anything.

Clive
16-02-2011, 09:40
I must admit my knee jerk reaction to this device is much the same as when I get emails from Nigeria asking me to help release a few million quid. Do I investigate each of the emails in case they are genuine? Of course not. Do I investigate whether this device is useful? Not unless I'm really at a loose end.

Marco
16-02-2011, 09:43
I think for most of us something that is going to very so much and is only interacting in the human perception field and having no effect on audio this is probarly a step to far.

+1.

That's also my view on it.

As soon as you start becoming addicted to the psychological 'effect' of this kind of stuff, then the world of placing bowls of holy water next to your fuse box, listening with one sock off, and other such 'Beltist' lunacy, ain't far away.... [Insert WARNING sign here].

And before you know it, your house will be full of such nonsense, which plays on the way your mind works - and you'll have embraced the status of 'nutter' with considerable aplomb! :mental:

I think I'll stick to optimising the performance of my equipment, and thus enjoyment of music, by modifying the internal components and using well-designed stands and cables - stuff that's been proven over many years to work, and on more than just a psychological level ;)

Marco.

Mark Grant
16-02-2011, 10:15
placing bowls of holy water next to your fuse box

Marco.

I have seen that fuse box, dont put water near it it :eek: (sorry could not resist) :)

Vinyleyes
16-02-2011, 10:54
I guess noone on here believes in flying saucers then ,,,,, :doh: ... c'mon .... how many ????............ :stalks:

Mark Grant
16-02-2011, 10:54
There is a third type of person steve - one that I sometimes wonder if I am the only one ... The type of person who is willing to accept that anything is a possibility, yet through "common sence" remains slightly skeptical...



That's a bit like me, very sceptical but will consider it.

If Pete was visiting Hamish's high end system I would drive down for a listen and give honest opinion.

Although I dont want by brains frying by some mysterious frequency emitted from the device between the speakers :eek:

zanash
16-02-2011, 10:56
Zanish can you describe how much you think its improved your listening experience and what has been the negative with other peoples rooms. I think for most of us something that is going to very so much and is only interacting in the human perception field and having no effect on audio this is probarly a step to far. I am willing for you to visit me and I will give my experience but if negative I just see "well its room dependent" and us not really achieving anything.

yes ...I was asked this by my dearest ..when I told her how much the unit cost ...

in my case I'd recently aquired a valve pre to replace a quad 77 pre [modded] that I'd been using for years ...the step up was clearly audible ...

using the phonosophie room animator is the equavlent of upgrading the whole system.... but keeping a type of sound that I liked. which in my case I'd worked out I would need to have spent the best part of £10k [sell old kit buying new kit] so the £600 plus, the unit cost looked very good value. But I can understand why its consider expensive , if you not heard the effect.

I didn't go blind into the purchase ..I'd heard the animator at two heathrow shows and been impressed by its performance [effect] ..so I had a home demo of a unit ..which I subsequently purchased.

happy to come over ..pm me ...

what I'm saying is ..some people say it will have no effect ..can't have an effect ...so I'll be happy if we here anything ..good or bad .

As I have previously said I've only had one bad effect ...at effem's . Due I think to the very strange listening room construction. Hence my saying room dependant.

If it has no effect in anyones system ...I'm happy to say that ..though thats not been the case in the 50 plus different systems its been tried in.

the bell curve if you like sit squarly in the small but positve area ...with one rather bad and one extremely good.In My own system it tends to resonably obvious or so everyone says ...and I think it provides a significant step up over the standard sound.

The areas improved are instrament separtation, dynamics , better imaging both height and width. I wont say there more bass but the transient attack and leading edges [if different are improved.

hope thats an answer to your question.

zanash
16-02-2011, 10:57
That's a bit like me, very sceptical but will consider it.

If Pete was visiting Hamish's high end system I would drive down for a listen and give honest opinion.

Although I dont want by brains frying by some mysterious frequency emitted from the device between the speakers :eek:

hay me neither ....!

lets see if I can get a trip over organised !

Vinyleyes
16-02-2011, 11:15
And ... a review of sorts ... Schumann Synchoniser (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schumann3/schumann.html)The reviewer is very careful to distance himself from applying it to hifi as a "tweak" .. but is very emphatic on the physical and mental benefits of the device ... So .. as has been postulated before on this thread .. I believe this device may enhance one's enjoyment and perception of listening to music simply by enhancing our mental state .......... and it is an accidental by product of the reason the device was invented ... Who needs beer wine and whisky anymore .. we'll save a fortune ...... :cool:

The reviewer himself meditates .. so is cognisant with the effects that inducing different mind frequencies can produce ... the effects of simple meditation (http://www.maithri.com/links/articles/meditation_effect_brain.htm) on our state of mind is well researched and documented ,,, and practised by many of our leading sports people, writers, actors, creative people in general ... but curiously ........ not by many politicians .. :lol:

I'm certainly up for giving the device a go on a nice quiet listening evening ... not sure how it would review in a "bake off" situation though with many people flitting in and out with divided attention spans .. if you know what I mean ... In fact I might even buy one for the office after that review above .... ;)

The Vinyl Adventure
16-02-2011, 11:34
That's a bit like me, very sceptical but will consider it.

If Pete was visiting Hamish's high end system I would drive down for a listen and give honest opinion.

Although I dont want by brains frying by some mysterious frequency emitted from the device between the speakers :eek:

id be up for that ...
we would have to work out a time when this missis is out ... she wouldnt be to hot on me having people over to investigate this sort of thing i doubt ...
... i dont see why it wouldnt work ... but i also dont know how it could ... i guess that as good a position to enter this situation ...
i am also willing and able to film and publish to you tube any effect it has on smoke or a guitar tuner .. ill even film blood coming out my eyes if that happens :)

John
16-02-2011, 13:13
I think Hamish and Mark would be your best bet both people are independent thinkers who will give a fair judgement towards its effect.
I am ex hippie maybe still am so perhaps better for the above two people to listen

John
16-02-2011, 13:16
+1.

That's also my view on it.

As soon as you start becoming addicted to the psychological 'effect' of this kind of stuff, then the world of placing bowls of holy water next to your fuse box, listening with one sock off, and other such 'Beltist' lunacy, ain't far away.... [Insert WARNING sign here].

And before you know it, your house will be full of such nonsense which plays on the way your mind works, and you'll have embraced the status of 'nutter' with considerable aplomb! :mental:

I think I'll stick to optimising the performance of my equipment by modifying the internal components and using well-designed stands and cables - stuff that's been proven over many years to work :)

Marco.

Mean to say you do not place mystic bowls of water over that fuse box of yours;)

Marco
16-02-2011, 13:23
S'ok, I found doing that made the top-end sound too 'liquid', and then the sparks set fire to my one sock! :lol:

Marco.

hornucopia
16-02-2011, 15:30
No need to shout! (Sorry! Relating to the big block letters earlier in string)
And as this one does seem to have an effect on (more than one person!) who knows.
Yes, there are a lot of weird things out there; SOME might just have a purpose?
I can recall the Peter Belt days, so have a long memory!
The Resonance concept DOES have some science to go with it too.
Read Lyall Watson......second thoughts.....don't!

The Earth DOES vibrate at a certain frequency; we are all a part of it so I guess anything that changes our frequency-life might be good/bad.
And it WAS created to affect humans, not hi-fi, so emotional life in general.

Reid Malenfant
16-02-2011, 15:33
Read Lyall Watson......second thoughts.....don't1
Do you mean Supernature by chance?

That book has been arund this house since i was a nipper & i have never read it :doh:

hornucopia
16-02-2011, 15:44
I went for accupuncture once and the guy told me to wear a mechanical watch and to avoid quartz watches due to there influence on the body.
Now im sensitive enough to pick up static on a record and ive felt very odd while walking near pylons but the watch thing makes no difference to me.
If you can pick up on this sort of thing then fair enough but you cant go making absolute truths about something and not back it up with data.
Thats how fundamental religions start.

I would put what you were told down to the myths perpetuated in that area. There are so many unsubstantiated things floating about in the alternative medicine world, that get repeated as 'Truth' .
Bad science?
Pylons maybe, as there is a huge force there, but watches?

And certainly the effects of the microwaves we're surrounded by now might need looking at?

Vinyleyes
16-02-2011, 16:32
Do you mean Supernature by chance?

That book has been arund this house since i was a nipper & i have never read it :doh:

In Supernature Dr Lyall Watson writes about ....

" cosmic law and order, man and the cosmos, the physics of life, brain waves, mind over matter, psychokinesis, will power, the aura, eyeless sight, psychometry, alchemy, palmistry, graphology, phrenology, hypnosis, dreams, hallucination, telepathy, intuition, clairvoyance, witchcraft, time, precognition, ghosts, and exobiology."

In fact he writes about all the kind of stuff that today's new Quantum Physicists are researching and finding that there is a real basis for their provenance .. In fact time and time again we find that civilisations 1000's of years old had knowledge of the planets and all kinds of stuff that they really had no right to know haha! ,,, But possibly we are straying into Abstract chat territory now so I'll clear off .... :cool:

John
16-02-2011, 16:38
Yes I love this kind of conversation with a few pints of beer
I always enjoyed reading about the whole connection between Quantum physics and mysticism, but for me best to talk this over with a few beers
Now where did the cat go!

Vinyleyes
16-02-2011, 16:45
I'll drink to that with you Mr Schrodinger ............ :cool: .............. :stalks:

John
16-02-2011, 16:48
:cool::cool::cool:

jonners
16-02-2011, 18:53
Hey, I just looked at the Machina Dynamica Teleportation Tweak which for $60 will improve your system over the phone! :mental: Having your system turned on at the time of receiving the call is apparently optional, and there is a money back guarantee - although they don't exactly say how they reverse it if you don't like it.
Makes the Schumann Synchroniser seem almost boringly normal! :)

Marco
16-02-2011, 19:13
Words fail me!! :lol: :lol:

Marco.

colinB
16-02-2011, 19:22
I find some of these things wind me up. Maybe thats my problem as Pete has implied. Fair enough.

However, i did find the sales blurb on one product funny. I found it in a Russ Andrews catalogue. Its called the Quantum resonance mains conditioner.
You sit the thing on your source and it cleans up your mains.
It basically states ; ...the way the Quantum q4 works is so complicated that were not even going to bother explaining how. Believe us it just works.

Isnt that brilliant. I work in sales and the next bad day i have im going to use that one and see if it works.

Reid Malenfant
16-02-2011, 19:28
I find some of these things wind me up. Maybe thats my problem as Pete has implied. Fair enough.

However, i did find the sales blurb on one product funny. I found it in a Russ Andrews catalogue. Its called the Quantum resonance mains conditioner.
You sit the thing on your source and it cleans up your mains.
It basically states ; ...the way the Quantum q4 works is so complicated that were not even going to bother explaining how. Believe us it just works.

Isnt that brilliant. I work in sales and the next bad day i have im going to use that one and see if it works.
Perhaps you ought to check out a Bybee "Quantum Purifier" or Bybee "Music Rails" :D

There is actually a trade member on here selling them :scratch:

colinB
16-02-2011, 19:35
Bybee "magic bullets", Thats what they call their RCA connectors ha ha.
Actually their mains block looks alright.

zanash
17-02-2011, 08:08
I'm going to ask this question again, because it seems to have been overlooked:



..............any news on that front?

just spotted this ...

I can't answer that ...as I don't know . One of the reasons for the post is to see if anyone else has ideas...

I don't believe the makers blurb either ...[can't find the german or its translation , though I do have it some where on my hd] if you look at the six moons reviw it gives a hint at what the maker says ....along the lines of reducing the turbulance in the atmosphere and also inteference from mobile phones ...

If anyone attended the heathrow shows and saw the deo ..part of it was to show the deterius effect of mobile phones .....I can't remember quite what they did

Marco
17-02-2011, 09:25
Hi Pete,


....along the lines of reducing the turbulance in the atmosphere and also inteference from mobile phones ...

If anyone attended the heathrow shows and saw the deo ..part of it was to show the deterius effect of mobile phones .....I can't remember quite what they did

Ah, now we're getting somewhere......................

Now *that* I can go with, as I know full well from experience how the shit kicked out into the atmosphere from mobile phones (and masts) interferes with and degrades the sound of hi-fi equipment (we're talking here about the effects of RFI), which is the reason I never keep my mobile phone switched on in my room when listening to music....

Now if this device (Schumann Synchroniser) can demonstrably reduce or nullify the sonically detrimental effect of airborne RFI on hi-fi equipment (exactly how though, I don't know), and prevent it from being transmitted by cables then acting as 'aerials' for it, polluting equipment connected - and the effect is repeatable to a significantly large target audience, then we have a credible (and likely measurable) reason for its efficacy.

If that had been mentioned at the beginning, instead of some of the other pseudo-scientific bollocks that was put forward, where the function of this device seemed to rely on our susceptibility to falling for the effects of psychology, then it would've been given greater credibility, instead of being ridiculed ;)

Now my interest is piqued (a little.......!)

Marco.

MartinT
17-02-2011, 12:26
I don't believe the makers blurb either ...[can't find the german or its translation , though I do have it some where on my hd] if you look at the six moons reviw it gives a hint at what the maker says ....along the lines of reducing the turbulance in the atmosphere and also inteference from mobile phones ...

This is interesting to me as I work in a school. We are occasionally asked about the deleterious effects of both mobile phones and wireless networking (we have 54 wireless access points covering the school) on the girls' academic performance. At the moment, I have to keep referring parents to the fact that there is no proven effect whatsoever, but there always remains a small question as to what effect all that electromagnetic radiation might have. Since it is a boarding school, any effect would be 24/7. Obviously, the impact on us should new data emerge would be quite serious.

I also need to remind myself that I have wireless networking at home and have never experienced an adverse reaction to it. Nevertheless, this is an interesting area for which there is inadequate research.

lurcher
17-02-2011, 12:40
I also need to remind myself that I have wireless networking at home and have never experienced an adverse reaction to it. Nevertheless, this is an interesting area for which there is inadequate research.

But I think you have to ask what would be "adequate research". I won't put words in your mouth, but I think for many, this is shorthand for "until the effect I expect is found". Ironically, the parents of your students probbaly expose their children to more harmfull radiation during their holiday (and the flight to and from there) than they get from a years exposure to the School's WiFi network.

We seem to be in a society that wants to find hidden scientific evil being done all around, the tragedy that was the triple jab scare shows the danger and acceptance of such thinking. :(

kininigin
17-02-2011, 12:51
This thread is quite interesting and i will give my views on it later.

It reminded me of a jedi mind tricks album i listen to quite often,the title of the album is.....

The Psycho-Social, Chemical, Biological & Electro-Magnetic Manipulation of Human Consciousness

I think you can tell which way i lean on these matters :lolsign:

colinB
17-02-2011, 13:59
Few years back i needed a mains block so i bought a decent one, no filters just screened cable and each socket wired in parallel.
I couldnt believe the difference it made. Made no sense to me. I have wondered though, i lived in Crystal palace at the time which is full aerials , phone masts and antennas ( including the famous one ). It is no exaggeration the place is full of them due to bad ( corrupt ) planning, probably to do with the fact its so high up and it borders on 5 london boroughs. Could it have been the electro polution?
Maybe.:scratch:

zanash
18-02-2011, 10:00
I thought I added a link to the phonosophie web ...plus the german translation ...thought they both mentioned rfi ...

ah well silly me ...

but I don't think thats the total picture ...


yes interesting about mains cables and blocks ...there are some people who still refuse to accept they can have any influence !...

having designed and built my own cables ...I know effective these can be ...ad also how little effect they can have in systems not subject to bombardment by rfi and emi ...

a friend who lives out in the country ...melton way ...connected up a set of posh super screened mains cables ...we could not hear any difference ...but the same cables in my own system have a big impact.

My mate is the chap with the guitar tuner ...when the animator was set up in his room it made a considerable difference.

so I don't think its all rfi and emi !

Effem
18-02-2011, 10:53
Yes indeed, Pete travelled all the way down to me here in Cornwall with his little "puck" with a blue LED on top.

I began this trial with more indifference than any expectation and if I did, it soon evaporated. Within a minute of this device being switched on I felt real pressure on the forehead immediately above the eyes and it grew in intensity until I had a real full blow headache in less than 3 minutes. I didn't say a word about this to Pete and I asked him to switch it off. It took around 30 seconds for the headache to fully recede. I aksed him to switch it on again and told him about the pressure on the sinuses, which replied that he was having the same reaction. This was repeatable again and again for three more cycles of the device on and off and the music playing made it worse for sure. That is a summary of what happened.

I will say this much; this little puck thing was having a repeatable negative effect, so it wasn't just a silver box with a blue LED on top, it was actually doing SOMETHING. The why's and wherefore's of it's functions are a separate issue to me and it would only have been total snake oil in my opinion if it did NOTHING at all, so that has to be the starting point of the discussion and not outright dismissal.

It might be the environment it was operating in that caused this negative effect. My listening room is dominated by two very large windows, a very large glass door to the garden and for good measure an internal "patio door" that separates off my listening room from the lounge. I would say that more than 70% of the room has glass surfaces instead of walls. I also have a suspended wooden floor over a a large void beneath, so as a "listening room" it is pretty pants acoustically to be honest :rolleyes:

Marco
18-02-2011, 11:39
Oh dear.... Life's too short to make yourself deliberately ill! :rolleyes:

Marco.

Effem
18-02-2011, 12:11
Oh dear.... Life's too short to make yourself deliberately ill! :rolleyes:

Marco.

Yes indeed Marco. If I wanted to practice self harm I would have certain marques of components installed in my hi-fi system :lol:

zanash
18-02-2011, 15:45
Yes indeed, Pete travelled all the way down to me here in Cornwall with his little "puck" with a blue LED on top.

I began this trial with more indifference than any expectation and if I did, it soon evaporated. Within a minute of this device being switched on I felt real pressure on the forehead immediately above the eyes and it grew in intensity until I had a real full blow headache in less than 3 minutes. I didn't say a word about this to Pete and I asked him to switch it off. It took around 30 seconds for the headache to fully recede. I aksed him to switch it on again and told him about the pressure on the sinuses, which replied that he was having the same reaction. This was repeatable again and again for three more cycles of the device on and off and the music playing made it worse for sure. That is a summary of what happened.

I will say this much; this little puck thing was having a repeatable negative effect, so it wasn't just a silver box with a blue LED on top, it was actually doing SOMETHING. The why's and wherefore's of it's functions are a separate issue to me and it would only have been total snake oil in my opinion if it did NOTHING at all, so that has to be the starting point of the discussion and not outright dismissal.

It might be the environment it was operating in that caused this negative effect. My listening room is dominated by two very large windows, a very large glass door to the garden and for good measure an internal "patio door" that separates off my listening room from the lounge. I would say that more than 70% of the room has glass surfaces instead of walls. I also have a suspended wooden floor over a a large void beneath, so as a "listening room" it is pretty pants acoustically to be honest :rolleyes:

yep pretty much as I remembered it ......!

that said ...this is the only bad physical reaction I've experienced with it .

synsei
02-05-2011, 05:07
I'm intrigued by this device. Normally I'm impervious to 'snake oil' devices but this one just might have legs. What intrigued me most was the the fact that it had an effect on the behavior of the smoke and the tuning of a guitar. This must mean it is conditioning the atmosphere within the room in some manner. Sound can be measurably affected by air density, humidity and particles suspended within it. Then there are the claims that this device cleans up stray atmospheric RFI. Both these effects can be measured, which means this device can be tested within a controlled environment. Zanash has repeatedly offered to demonstrate this device, even to the point of offering to bring it to the home of a sceptic. I find his approach to be entirely reasonable.

I think the debate here is not about this device in particular, but is truly about the value an individual places on improving his or her listening experience, and the lengths to which they would go to do so. On that basis we all differ. Some of us would not bat an eyelid at spending thousands of pounds to rewire the entire house to beef up the mains supply to our hifi systems so as to improve the quality of sound it delivers. It is a value judgement. "I can afford it therefore I am going to do it". Some may question the voracity of such an action. I would, but from a certain perspective: There's no way I could justify spending that kind of money on my hobby, not to mention that both my girlfriend and landlord would be competing over who could throw me out first :lol:

Both Zanash and Geoff have personally benefited from the effect this device has had on their listening experiences, so who the heck are we to question that? Zanash, in particular, has gone about it the right way. He heard a demonstration at 'Heathrow', chose to to have a demo at his own home, the results spoke for themselves and so he went and bought one. To me, this doesn't appear to be the action of a weak-minded individual. In fact it is the correct method to acquire any new component for a system: Demo, home audition, purchase or not.

The big question I suppose is whether it is worth the asking price. Not to me it isn't, but that is my personal view. I don't expect to be lambasted for it, as I would not lambast Zanash and Geoff for buying it. 'Treat people the way you wish to be treated'. I've learnt from personal experience that this philosophy can be very rewarding. :respect:

BTH K10A
02-05-2011, 09:02
I'm intrigued by this device. Normally I'm impervious to 'snake oil' devices but this one just might have legs. What intrigued me most was the the fact that it had an effect on the behavior of the smoke and the tuning of a guitar. This must mean it is conditioning the atmosphere within the room in some manner. Sound can be measurably affected by air density, humidity and particles suspended within it. Then there are the claims that this device cleans up stray atmospheric RFI. Both these effects can be measured, which means this device can be tested within a controlled environment. Zanash has repeatedly offered to demonstrate this device, even to the point of offering to bring it to the home of a sceptic. I find his approach to be entirely reasonable.

I think the debate here is not about this device in particular, but is truly about the value an individual places on improving his or her listening experience, and the lengths to which they would go to do so. On that basis we all differ. Some of us would not bat an eyelid at spending thousands of pounds to rewire the entire house to beef up the mains supply to our hifi systems so as to improve the quality of sound it delivers. It is a value judgement. "I can afford it therefore I am going to do it". Some may question the voracity of such an action. I would, but from a certain perspective: There's no way I could justify spending that kind of money on my hobby, not to mention that both my girlfriend and landlord would be competing over who could throw me out first :lol:

Both Zanash and Geoff have personally benefited from the effect this device has had on their listening experiences, so who the heck are we to question that? Zanash, in particular, has gone about it the right way. He heard a demonstration at 'Heathrow', chose to to have a demo at his own home, the results spoke for themselves and so he went and bought one. To me, this doesn't appear to be the action of a weak-minded individual. In fact it is the correct method to acquire any new component for a system: Demo, home audition, purchase or not.

The big question I suppose is whether it is worth the asking price. Not to me it isn't, but that is my personal view. I don't expect to be lambasted for it, as I would not lambast Zanash and Geoff for buying it. 'Treat people the way you wish to be treated'. I've learnt from personal experience that this philosophy can be very rewarding. :respect:

I have to say I concur with you dave. I have just read this thread through from start to finish and given the ethos of this forum being friendly and leaning more towards subjectivism, I find many of the replies posted quite appalling. These range from insulting comments through to childlike jibes, from both members and moderator(s) who should know better. It should be understood that left unchecked this can appear to the recipient as a form of bullying, and this is when a moderator needs to act. As result, it seems that one new member may have left the forum. That does not reflect well.



Zanash has been giving an honest account of his personal findings with a device that is a litle unusual. He openly states that he does not know exactly how it works but percieves an improvement in his listening room. He again honestly declares where there were problems with it in anothers room. He also deserves credit for his resolve amid a crowd of unbelievers.

If people have an issue with a makers claims then take it up with the maker and not the customer.

Like Dave it's not a product for me, but neither is any cable costing more than £30/m a pair. However I don't belittle users of such products.

Rant for the day over.

synsei
02-05-2011, 12:07
I have to say I concur with you dave. I have just read this thread through from start to finish and given the ethos of this forum being friendly and leaning more towards subjectivism, I find many of the replies posted quite appalling. These range from insulting comments through to childlike jibes, from both members and moderator(s) who should know better. It should be understood that left unchecked this can appear to the recipient as a form of bullying, and this is when a moderator needs to act. As result, it seems that one new member may have left the forum. That does not reflect well.



Zanash has been giving an honest account of his personal findings with a device that is a litle unusual. He openly states that he does not know exactly how it works but percieves an improvement in his listening room. He again honestly declares where there were problems with it in anothers room. He also deserves credit for his resolve amid a crowd of unbelievers.

If people have an issue with a makers claims then take it up with the maker and not the customer.

Like Dave it's not a product for me, but neither is any cable costing more than £30/m a pair. However I don't belittle users of such products.

Rant for the day over.

I agree. This has been a very uncomfortable read. I think a number of members should hang their heads in shame as they have effectively bullied Geoff off the forum. Marco, on behalf of us all, I'd like to request that you send an email to Geoff, if possible, to offer him an unreserved apology. Had this discussion involved a more mainstream component I feel sure punitive action would have been the result. This hasn't been the forums finest hour I fear... :oops:

I feel we should welcome Geoff and Zanash back into the fold with a huge :grouphug:

synsei
04-05-2011, 08:31
I am 'bumping' this thread as I am uncomfortable, and somewhat saddened at the lack of any response from the team. :confused:

Effem
04-05-2011, 09:04
I have frequented and participated in hi-fi forum life for close on 10 years now and maybe because I have done so for that length of time I probably have acquired a pretty tough skin - especially so as I was until around 3 years ago a "snake oil vendor" myself and therefore considered a target.

I have though learned during that period of time to distinguish between a sceptic, a cynic and a troll, so I personally deal with them accordingly.

During this particular thread I have seen comments from a couple of sceptics and they have been polite and courteous, wishing only to clarify the claims being made. I have seen one or two comments from cynics too and with all due respect to their point of view, there isn't much you can say or present a cogent debate that will change their mind, so you either futilely attempt to change their view or simply save your energy which will otherwise be wasted. I have not seen any trolling or comments made in this thread so far just for the sake of inflaming people, so my best advice is to take two steps back and gain a tougher skin :eyebrows:

In the cold light of day though, nothing we say or discuss on ANY forum makes the slightest bit of diffference to the grand plan of life anyway, because the cynics will never stop (true) the tide of "dubious products with dubious claims", nor will the people that hear these products provide actual beneficial effects ever bow down to the sceptics and cynics attempting to p*ss on the joy they gain through their hobby - because that is all it was, is and will be :lol:

synsei
04-05-2011, 09:11
Fair comment Frank. I suppose the best way to sum up this thread would be with the old saying, 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'. I still believe it unfortunate that we lost a member to some rather harsh comments, but that's my opinion. Maybe I care too much... :rolleyes:

Marco
04-05-2011, 09:14
Sorry, Dave, I haven't been following this thread, or read it for quite some time, so had missed the recent posts.

The correct procedure when something offends is to hit the 'Report Post' button (shown as a little warning triangle at the top of each post, next to the post number), as that way all mods and admin receive instant notification of said reported post, and therefore can do something about it.

Could everyone please bear this in mind in future?

Otherwise, I'm afraid, it's impossible to read everything that's written here, particularly when topics are of little personal interest, together with the fact that there are often 100s of new posts made every day. I hadn't even noticed Dave's 'rant' (BTH K10A) above until now...

The Geoff/Aquapiranha situation was dealt with some time ago, if you read back. At the time I emailed Geoff and asked him to come back, but he's obviously decided not to, and of course Pete still contributes.

At the moment, I don't have time to go through all the recent posts here and scrutinise them, so if you highlight the ones you find objectionable, and say why, I'll look at it and provide a considered response.

It should be noted, however, that what is intended as friendly banter or tongue-in-cheek remarks, can often be misconstrued, either through bad use of language, absence of smilies (to convey/emphasise mood), or inappropriate use of smilies, which often confuses matters.

Pete knows this all too well from his recent experiences in the classifieds section! ;)

Aside from Steve (Aquapiranha's) 'outburst' ages ago, which was dealt with, I am unaware of anything else recently which could qualify as being insulting or objectionable, however, that's why I've asked you to look through things for me.

On the face of it though, I'd say that some folks are perhaps a little too 'delicate' for their own good. Like Frank says, you need to have a tough skin sometimes and be able to take a little ribbing or criticism, just like is necessary to survive in real life!

Anyway, it's over to you, mate :cool:

Marco.

synsei
04-05-2011, 09:36
No problem Marco, and thanks for posting. I didn't consider it to have got so bad that I had to hit 'The Little Red Button' :lol:, it was only that I considered it rather sad that that we lost a member to some rather robust comments. Apologies to your good self for expecting you to have the time to read every single post that's received during a days business, it was unfair of me. Most of the 'forii' I belong to have a very small membership and I sometimes forget just how popular AoS actually is. Again, I apologize if my post has made anyone feel uncomfortable, that wasn't my intention. ;)

Marco
04-05-2011, 14:14
Hi Dave,

No problem - you're welcome. It's important that you speak up if something concerns you, as that's the only way anything is likely to be done about it.... :)

Marco.

zanash
05-05-2011, 09:25
I've not visted this thread for a while ...I find synsei comments very complimentary !

I'll repeat my offer .....I'm happy to demo the unit to anyone especially none believers ...I'm not trying to sell the unit, I have no connection with the distributer other than as a customer .

What I will say is that if anyone tells me Its impossible or can't possibly work etc ..without first having heard the unit or infact anything else ....I'm likely to jump on it


Alfie took the plunge a couple of weeks ago ......and the unit did as I described, which vindicates my position and comments ! [but I knew that !]

The same issues were rasied on another forum .....I must have visted 40 or 50 people over two years ....but still the sceptics would not believe either me or the people I visted ! .....................talk about closed minds.

So if your at all intruged over the foo effect ...give me call

HighFidelityGuy
05-05-2011, 09:46
Hi Pete, I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was interested in demoing your unit at some point and I'm still interested in doing that. I just need to finish doing a bit of tweaking to my system, so I'll be in touch in a few weeks. Cheers. :)

zanash
05-05-2011, 13:40
that would be great !

when ver your ready ...your just a quick trip up the road ...

I can start to gather the foo ....milk the old snakes for some oil etc

HighFidelityGuy
05-05-2011, 13:44
Awesome! Could you mix in a bit of Tiger blood too? That stuff really sweetens up the sound. Both me and Charlie Sheen swear by it. ;)

Cheers. :cool: