View Full Version : Fun with inexpensive carts ... A few questions for people
The Vinyl Adventure
07-02-2011, 23:08
I am quite happy with my 2m red ... It's not the last thing in hifi but I actualy really like it ... The top end seems a little metallic compared to oc9 on techie... I'm not sure how valid a comparison that it what with the complete swap out of turntable?
Is it likely to be the cart, If it is the cart is it possible that it is to do with it not being broke in yet?
I have also been listing to the shure m75ed type 2 that mark gave me on the new tt... (since the cat killed tt no.2) ... It sounds way better than I expected ... Not as good as the 2m red, but it sounds "nicer", much more gentle ... In fact I could listen to it almost as a permanent thing if it wasn't for a sort of muddiness I can't quite put my finger on ...
I should be saving my hifi funds to fix my project debut but I was thinking i might buy another cheapy cart ...
I remember Dave (dsjr) talking about a cartridge ... It might even be a DJ one ... Sounding really fun, and addictive to listen to ... Well that sounds appealing ... What was it Dave?
Would I have the same experience on this turntable do we think ...
Anyone else got any ideas what dirt cheap carts might give me some cheap thrills?
Maybe I should have got an arm with a swappable head shell ;) ... I can see me enjoying swapping these things in and out ...
Also, my counter weight is right at the end of it's stub thing ... I remember when I had my jelco the heavy jelco weight (after some listening) proved an advantage ...
Well the tecnoweight is out of the question for the time being ... But maybe I could look else where for a cheaper option ... Any thoughts ... Or could I just make this one heavier in some ingenious way?
I think this is more fun than the techie was (I'm prob just still getting over the loss of it :( ;) ) ... Cheap thrills are more fun than expensive ones though I think ... :)
The Vinyl Adventure
07-02-2011, 23:13
God, I've just realised I've started down the tinkering with the tt road without even thinking about it ... Exactly what I was trying to avoid ... Does it make it bette that I'm doing it for fun as opposed to for the hunt of tt nirvana :doh: :lol:
You'll soon be getting the blue paint out again...
The Vinyl Adventure
07-02-2011, 23:56
To be fair, that bit was the most fun!
That and going down to meet you and see Dave, that was a good n fun day!
The Vinyl Adventure
08-02-2011, 00:06
I tell you what I like about the shure ... On this table, the bass is really musical and tonefull ...
I was told the Townshend had good bass qualities so maybe that's a contributing factor??
I'm really tied up with work and other matters right now, so apologies for not jumping in :)
The Debut arm is very low mass, so the "DJ carts won't like it much, as they need a tank-like structure to work best, as in old Garrard auto decks :D I have an M55e, now with an "Ed Saunders" tip and that's not bad, although an AT110E easily saw it off.
The best universal "get you going" cartridge of them all, is probably the AT95E. not as cheap these days, but it will work in anything, more or less..
Good fun init Hamish. I'm currently enjoying a Sonotone 3559/Garrard KS41C
The Vinyl Adventure
08-02-2011, 12:49
Even my debut doesn't have a debut arm dave... But that's a whole other story for now
The tone arm in question is a my rega rb301 on the Townshend Avalon
Would the DJ cart work ok on the rega arm?
This is where I came unstuck though ...
There seems to be loads of carts that go for £10-£20 on eBay, but I have no idea how well they will work with my tone arm ... How are you supposed to find this stuff out?
I'd thought about a cheapy AT ... But at £30 odd, it struck me I might find a few s/h carts for that money that might be a little more interesting or unusual :)
As i said I find my self more inclined to learn a bit more about the differences in these things and get a bit of experience in of them than try and find ultimate quality ...
Of course it would be nice if I found something I really liked without major caveat ... To be honest the shure is really nice, but seems to suit my older vinyl a lot more than my modern stuff that tends to sound muddled ...
Reid Malenfant
08-02-2011, 12:55
God, I've just realised I've started down the tinkering with the tt road without even thinking about it ... Exactly what I was trying to avoid ... Does it make it bette that I'm doing it for fun as opposed to for the hunt of tt nirvana :doh: :lol:
:uhho: Slippery slope :D
Pleased you are making use of the Shure cartridge Hamish :)
Beobloke
08-02-2011, 13:03
Personally, when it comes to cheap cartridges, I rarely stray outside AT95E and AT110E territory.
That said, the DJ-oriented Ortofon OM Pro S proved something of an audiophile surprise and tracks at over 3g, so can cope with clunky old decks if necessary!
Hamish beware you now starting on step slope Lol
If you want a fun, cheap cartridge may l suggest a Stanton 520V3, at £20, musical, full -bloodied, it sounds (in my system) stupidly good- oh did l mention the valley size midband:cool:
The Vinyl Adventure
08-02-2011, 18:03
:uhho: Slippery slope :D
Pleased you are making use of the Shure cartridge Hamish :)
Hamish beware you now starting on step slope Lol
Nah spent to much money on hifi last 2 years .. Other things need the cash flow this year...
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2011, 20:09
'ADC XLM MK 3' any good to me?
Depends on the pennies, but yes, I'd say so - DSJR sold me one of theirs with the SL-150 - I think it was a VLM mk III - (could be wrong) and it sounds nice on the 401 in system 2 - I preferred the Nagaoka overall, as it has a bit more "bite" to my ears, but the ADC is well regarded I believe.
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2011, 22:06
Which nagaoka Alex? I have been looking at an mp11 to try too ... Since I don't know what will match the tonearm ... This is pretty hard work
Hey, have you got a rb200 tonearm?
I've got an MP-15 - I love it :) The MP-11 will still be good, by all accounts - especially so if it is the rarer Boron cantilever version. I don't have a RB200 - got the original R200 (based on the Acos Lustre) arm on my Planar 3 (bought it to butcher and put the arm on the Garrard, but I didn't have the heart in the end - yet!) - but not tried the ADC in that - (running an AT95E which I bought new in about 1988 and is still going strong, though I probably owe it a new stylus to be fair after 20+ years! Still the entry-level cartridge of choice after all these years I reckon.)
I've just got an MP-11. Sounds really good for the 35 quid I payed. The equivalent in the new range, the MP-110 is about 80 new. The MP-110 stylus will work fine in the MP-11 body as far as I know should a replacement needle be needed in the future.
hifi_dave
13-02-2011, 23:12
Which nagaoka Alex? I have been looking at an mp11 to try too ... Since I don't know what will match the tonearm ... This is pretty hard work
Hey, have you got a rb200 tonearm?
You can put just about anything in the RB301 and get good results. If it's something with an ultra high compliance and silly low tracking weight, like an ADC ZLM or Shure V15, you might (might) not get the best out of it.
You can even use a London/Decca or Koetsu with some extra mass at the headshell end and a heavier Rega c/weight. The world is your oyster and an MP11 is right up it's street.
The Nagaokas are just about the easiest cartridges to align as well. Which helps when you're as clumsy as I am.
The MP-11 will still be good, by all accounts - especially so if it is the rarer Boron cantilever version
The problem with those is that the stylus falls off them! I'm not kidding, they must've stuck them on with Prit or something. I had two fall off and assumed I'd done something stupid. Then I realised that other people had suffered exactly the same thing.
I still have an MP11 Boron minus stylus upstairs. I've never lost the stylus on any other cart.
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2011, 23:31
You can put just about anything in the RB301 and get good results. If it's something with an ultra high compliance and silly low tracking weight, like an ADC ZLM or Shure V15, you might (might) not get the best out of it.
You can even use a London/Decca or Koetsu with some extra mass at the headshell end and a heavier Rega c/weight. The world is your oyster and an MP11 is right up it's street.
That's the answer I'm looking for Dave
The Vinyl Adventure
13-02-2011, 23:40
The one I spotted is a boron one
Is yours te boron one keith?
If not is a boron one worth paying more than £35 for?
Did you like it apart from it falling apart Colin?
No, mines the bog-standard one. I think the boron ones cost quite a bit more?
Reid Malenfant
14-02-2011, 09:54
The problem with those is that the stylus falls off them! I'm not kidding, they must've stuck them on with Prit or something. I had two fall off and assumed I'd done something stupid. Then I realised that other people had suffered exactly the same thing.
I still have an MP11 Boron minus stylus upstairs. I've never lost the stylus on any other cart.
:D You must have had a Friday afternoon stylus :eyebrows: That's very unlucky indeed...
It's fair to say i have had a lot more luck with mine as it's still in one piece ;)
It's fair to say i have had a lot more luck with mine as it's still in one piece
So far...
hifi_dave
14-02-2011, 21:06
We never had any trouble with Nagaoka cartridges unlike Dynavector Ruby and Diamond where the cantilevers would fall out at the drop of a hat..:eek:
The Vinyl Adventure
15-02-2011, 18:20
Eh Colin
I just bought this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260732981231&ssPageName=ADME:B:BCA:GB:1120#ht_500wt_922
You want one of the spare stylus that it comes with?
Eh Colin. You want one of the spare stylus that it comes with?
If you don't mind that would be handy. Thank you. That cartridge has not been used for years but I could try it on one of the kid's turntables.
Cool stuff, thank you :0)
The Vinyl Adventure
15-02-2011, 19:53
no worries .. pm me your address and ill send it on when i get it ... all being well
Good luck :)
Do please remember the hierarchy - deck first, then arm then cartridge. the Debut isn't the quietest turntable, motor vibration and midrange motor harmonics clearly audible on mine, so a Speed Box or similar is probably where any money should go deck wise..
The MP11 was always a safe bet, as is the AT95e and 110e.
By the way, the ADC VLM and XLM from mk2 onwards are very sweet toned, usually track well at 1.25g (XLM) and 1.5g (VLM) and offer a lovely, musical quality to the records they play. They won't have the more "etched" sonics of modern designs or the absolute transparency of the better moving coil models, but are still good. Put it this way, I still have a collection and won't be selling any more on, especially the ZLM I treasure :)
By the way, the Phase 4 ADC I acquired with my last GL75 worked beautifully in the Lenco tonearm. Sad that so many buyers of ever increasing priced GL75's butcher the heck out of them in the mistaken thought that the arm is a load of junk and only worthy of the bin...
The Vinyl Adventure
17-02-2011, 19:58
Dave! I'm not talking about the debut that is out of action at the mo this is on my Townshend Avalon with rega rb301 - in case you had missed it The other times ;) :lol:
I'm happy the deck and arm are good enough to give me a reasonable idea of what all these older carts can and can't do ... That's why it's been so much fun so far listening to them ...
Aside from that, the project is actually very highly tinkered with and doesn't have it's original arm .... So I have reasonable hopes it might be pretty good too :)
Cheers for the pointers .. One of these adc's is def on my list for ones to try
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