View Full Version : March 2011 edition of Hi-Fi News
This month's edition of Hi-Fi News is worth reading.
To start with there is an article with photos of Ken Kessler's listening room. Not only does he have the most impressive collection of music and equipment, it is one of the most cluttered rooms I have seen. Part of the clutter is one of the most enviable collections of vintage/classic gear.
Next up is an article on the legendary Marantz 10B tuner. I once 'won' one on eBay, however the seller reneged on the sale! :steam:
The letters page has some thought provoking and well written letters on what is the fidelity to which we all aspire, and should live music be necessarily used as a reference.
All in all one of the better month's Hi-Fi News.
should live music be necessarily used as a reference.
Sounds like a cop-out...
Ah, but there's live acoustic instruments and there's live amplified. I wouldn't use the latter as any kind of reference. The former, definitely.
I wouldn't use the latter as any kind of reference.
Why not? If it's a recording of amplified music you want it to sound like that.
I find it amusing that people will often choose as references the easiest things to reproduce! Getting a Hi-Fi to do a good job of an acoustic guitar and a singer is not that hard. Getting it to do a good job of a rock band is!
That depends on your preferred recordings. As a rule, I dont like live rock recordings because, by and large, the amplification and speakers used, and the venue, make it sound poor. Which means that studio recordings don't have a reference.
Classical music, however, is at least as difficult to record (I would say harder) as rock music and can be directly compared with the live sound at a concert. In my opinion, massed choral music (try, say, Mozart's Requiem) is immensely hard to pull off in a recording and sound life-like.
magiccarpetride
07-02-2011, 22:25
Sounds like a cop-out...
I've recently attended a live performance that only consisted of four dudes with their Mac Book Pros. They were cuing in various pre-recorded bits of music, creating a melange. Sounded great, and should be easily reproducible to the stunning degree of fidelity on a good home audio system.
I don't agree. I think classical music is much easier to reproduce than rock.
Think of how many times you've heard, or heard of, speakers or some other bit of kit being 'good for classical'? Usually it means 'can't do rock worth a s***'. I know I have. I once had a pair of Impulse horn speakers in the house to try. Sounded quite nice with classical, as soon as you tried rock they fell apart, their shortcomings were instantly apparent.
I don't think you can say that classical is harder to record, I think they're different more than anything else. An orchestra is larger, more sound sources etc, sure, I'm not saying it's easy, but the plethora of good classical recordings suggests it's far from impossible to do. In fact, most classical recording sound quite good, so it can't be that hard.
How many really good rock recordings are there by comparison, percentage wise? Do you think that 'less' would be a safe bet?
I've recently attended a live performance that only consisted of four dudes with their Mac Book Pros.
I wouldn't have admitted that! ;0)
I don't agree. I think classical music is much easier to reproduce than rock.
I suspect Martin was meaning powerful symphonic works. Or something like The Planets (which is not symphonic), as well as massed choral. Nice baroque sounds won't be challenging but all classical music ain't the same.
magiccarpetride
07-02-2011, 22:47
I wouldn't have admitted that! ;0)
What do pigs think Mac Book Pro stands for?
Hi Colin,
Why not? If it's a recording of amplified music you want it to sound like that.
Indeed - I agree. However, it's not the sound of the instruments themselves you're replicating, but rather the sound of whatever PA system was used.
The fact is, any instrument that's amplified will carry with it the signature of whatever is amplifying it. Sure, if that's the source sound, then you want your system to mimic that sound, as closely as possible, regardless - but the fact remains that the source sound in that instance is tainted by the effects of amplification.
I'm all for hi-fi systems being able to replicate (as near as is possible within obvious limitations) the sound of a live rock concert, and for that you need huge speakers with big drive units which shift plenty of air, hence why I have very large and efficient Tannoys and a powerful enough amp to drive them to ludicrously loud levels, cleanly and without audible distortion, if necessary.
However, if we're talking about 'references' for a hi-fi system to be able to reproduce, in terms of real instruments, then that will always be the sound of acoustic instruments and the human voice, simply because what is heard with those is natural and unsullied.
I find it amusing that people will often choose as references the easiest things to reproduce! Getting a Hi-Fi to do a good job of an acoustic guitar and a singer is not that hard. Getting it to do a good job of a rock band is!
It's not as easy as you think to accurately reproduce, in any genuine sense, the sound of, say, a saxophone or a piano. There are all sorts of subtleties and harmonics which most systems will miss, not to mention having the tonal palette and dynamic range necessary in order to make the end result in any way convincing, especially to the ears of someone who knows exactly how such instruments should sound, e.g. a musician who plays them! ;)
However, I agree with the spirit of your argument, and thus would not own a hi-fi system which could not do justice to both the accurate reproduction of acoustic instruments, the human voice, and amplified rock music.
Marco.
Hi Barry,
Yes I've got this month's HFN, and a jolly good read it is, too! I also noticed KK's system (although I've seen it before) and his amazing music collection! :eek:
TBH, though, quite a lot of that gear I wouldn't use. I'm not a big fan of SME turntables, Audio Research preamps (in terms of I feel they're overpriced for what they are), Wilson speakers or Musical Fidelity CDPs (or Musical Fidelity anything, for that matter).
Where's the Marantz CD12/DA12 he frequently uses as a reference? That's much more up my street, as I suspect would be much of his superb collection of (rare) vintage gear, which doesn't appear to get much of a look in.....
No, I'm much more in envy of KK's music collection, particularly the vinyl, than I am of his hi-fi system :)
Still, I think Jimmy Hughes has even more!
Marco.
I don't think you can say that classical is harder to record, I think they're different more than anything else. An orchestra is larger, more sound sources etc, sure, I'm not saying it's easy, but the plethora of good classical recordings suggests it's far from impossible to do. In fact, most classical recording sound quite good, so it can't be that hard.
We'll have to agree to differ. An orchestra in full flow is a fearsome thing, and harmonically and texturally very rich indeed. The CD format, for instance, can barely cope with all that's going on. Also I believe that far more care is taken over classical recordings than many rock recordings (especially these days) and may account for the higher percentage of good classical recordings made.
The Grand Wazoo
08-02-2011, 07:52
I enjoyed the article by Barry Willis about reliability and warranty length - agree wholeheartedly.
The piece on the Marantz was good but I'm sometimes surprised that so many people are willing to forgive it's shortcomings which are seemingly nullified by the presence of an oscilloscope
Lodgesound
08-02-2011, 08:44
Know what i mean about the glamour factor of having an oscilloscope but honestly if you want one in your system you can buy them for about 20 quid now.......
They are useful for phase alignment if you have analogue tape machines which by their very nature will require line up each time you play a tape - a scope can be useful as a phase meter in this regard.
I want to be honest about live music I love going to live concerts and been close to about 3000 concerts I play guitar (badly) so I know what a rock concert can sound when good and when poor Unfortantly a lot of times a rock concert can sound poor, when they sound good there is nothing like and no Hifi system can get anywhere near that kind of power. To be quite honest having concert levels of volume is not really acceptable in most homes, the best we can aim for is the illusion.
For me what I want is for music to get my hairs on my neck stand up, to allow me to listen for 2 to 6 hours without fatigue, but everyone will have their own take on this
Vinyleyes
08-02-2011, 10:31
I want to be honest about live music I love going to live concerts and been close to about 3000 concerts I play guitar (badly) so I know what a rock concert can sound when good and when poor Unfortantly a lot of times a rock concert can sound poor, when they sound good there is nothing like and no Hifi system can get anywhere near that kind of power. To be quite honest having concert levels of volume is not really acceptable in most homes, the best we can aim for is the illusion.
For me what I want is for music to get my hairs on my neck stand up, to allow me to listen for 2 to 6 hours without fatigue, but everyone will have their own take on this
I go with John here definitely ... I love live music and if my home system cannot produce those spine tingling moments .. when time seems to stop and you are there in the moment ... then it is failing somehow. I am quite lucky in that I am not constrained by volume levels at home and I can get up to pretty high sound levels .. :eek:
Having said that a home system has still to be able to play softly and delicately and transmit the emotion in the music......... Sandy Denny singing "Who knows where the time goes" from Unhalfbricking will alays get my neck hairs standing and quite often move me to tears .. :violin:
For me it is always about being able to reproduce the emotion and atmosphere of a performance ... whether it sounds accurate to the nth degree of actual live sound is to me far less important .... I mean how can anyone expect anyway to reproduce the exact sound of a live rock band or a 40 piece orchestra in your living room with only 2 speakers spaced about 3 or 4 metres away .... :scratch:
Hi Barry,
No, I'm much more in envy of KK's music collection, particularly the vinyl, than I am of his hi-fi system :)
Still, I think Jimmy Hughes has even more!
Marco.
me thinks young James may have actually paid for his though.
Lol - funny handshakes, eh? ;)
Marco.
What do pigs think Mac Book Pro stands for?
I think it's what you are shown if you walk into a shop and say "Hi. I'm a tosser and I want a laptop"
magiccarpetride
08-02-2011, 19:15
I think it's what you are shown if you walk into a shop and say "Hi. I'm a tosser and I want a laptop"
Pigs are great animals.
They even have a light on the back of the lid so that people can spot that you are a tosser from a safe distance.
magiccarpetride
08-02-2011, 19:38
They even have a light on the back of the lid so that people can spot that you are a tosser from a safe distance.
True. The most pathetic of all are the coffee shop hipsters who mask that bright light apple logo with some duct tape.
Pigs are great animals.
Especially in a sandwich with some HP sauce. (Present company excepted, of course - wouldn't want to see you reduced to rashers Mr. Pig! ;))
better post something on topic... ahem.
The biggest problem for me is that the only bloomin' place I can find anything other than What-Hifi locally is W H Smith - which for me means a trip into town. I could subscribe, but as I am already subscribed to at least 6 monthly periodicals that I hardly read, I would prefer to just pick up the odd copy here and there. That said, I'm into London tomorrow for the day and I usually pick up Choice, World and News if they look interesting for the journey home. At the risk of offending Mr Price (not sure if he ever pops in any more?) and probably a lot of others of you - News is usually my favourite read, followed by World, and Choice is a notch above WHF... But it is actually WHF I buy the most, purely because of Hobson's!
Anyway, I look forward to catching up with HiFi News tomorrow as this edition looks interesting.
I stopped reading Hi-Fi mags years ago. Occasionally I might buy one but that usually just reminds me of why I stopped.
There were very few reviewers who's opinions could be even half trusted and honest mags tended to go out of business. I got really fed up with hyped-up products that turned out to be rubbish.
Plus, these days it's all about streaming, iPods and home cinema. Quantity and convenience has replaced quality. It's a world I hardly recognise and don't like that much. That makes me sound so old! ;0)
Hi Alex,
But it is actually WHF I buy the most, purely because of Hobson's!
Lol - but what the hell do you find worth reading in that useless rag?? 90% of it is adverts for shite, leaving 10% of, well, just shite!!
Marco.
Hi Alex,
Lol - but what the hell do you find worth reading in that useless rag?? 90% of it is adverts for shite, leaving 10% of, well, just shite!!
Marco.
Maybe they should change the title to 'What Shite'. Either that or add a '?' to the end of the present title.
Maybe they should change the title to 'What Shite'. Either that or add a '?' to the end of the present title.
Ironically, they already have! "What HiFi? Sound and Vision" :D
Lol - but what the hell do you find worth reading in that useless rag?? 90% of it is adverts for shite, leaving 10% of, well, just shite!
How can you say that! They reviewed 11 pairs of earbud 'phones and 9 TVs this month!
Seriously, though, I'm shocked that anyone on AoS would find anything remotely of value in WHF.
Aside from the mind-numbing adverts, all it's full of is mainstream pish and the latest 'must haves' for the gullible and clueless.
Is there something you want to tell us, Alex? :lol:
Marco.
Joking aside Marco, and I know its not your bag, baby, but plenty of us here are into our portable players, streaming and AV kit, and WHF is the only one of the "hifi" press that covers those, really, as well as some traditional hifi. Granted, no copper amps or vintage stuff, but they do still cover the odd bit of esoteric kit. I just see it along the same lines as What Car - if I want facts and figures and specs on the mundane stuff it's the one to pick up, if you want variety, excitement and enthusiasm you pick up Top Gear.
True enough, dude. WHF holds no interest for me whatsoever.
I only subscribe to three mags. HFN, UNCUT, and of course, Rubber Pants Monthly! :eyebrows:
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
08-02-2011, 23:55
Know what i mean about the glamour factor of having an oscilloscope but honestly if you want one in your system you can buy them for about 20 quid now.......
They are useful for phase alignment if you have analogue tape machines which by their very nature will require line up each time you play a tape - a scope can be useful as a phase meter in this regard.
Well, if anyone is in the market for a rare vintage Marantz tuner with a scope for a slightly more sane price than the 10B goes for, I know where there is one at the moment.
but plenty of us are into portable players, streaming and AV kit, and WHF covers those
Which might be super if the opinions they printed were worth a stuff!
In my opinion, of all the Hi-Fi magazines I've ever read, the views expressed in What Hi-Fi? are the ones that are the least likely to correspond with anything resembling reality. If they say a CD player offers a slice of Hi-End for a budget price it's a pretty safe bet that it's shiny and bright. If they say that a pair of speakers is flawed, unbalanced and coloured I go on the assumption they might be worth checking out.
Is What Hi-Fi? partly to blame for the dearth of proper audio equipment or just a symptom? I don't know but either way it's not good is it?
I've often said that WHF is perfectly adequate for number twos in the little room, if a tad shiny.
My favourite read is Stereophile.
In my opinion, of all the Hi-Fi magazines I've ever read, the views expressed in What Hi-Fi? are the ones that are the least likely to correspond with anything resembling reality. If they say a CD player offers a slice of Hi-End for a budget price it's a pretty safe bet that it's shiny and bright. If they say that a pair of speakers is flawed, unbalanced and coloured I go on the assumption they might be worth checking out.
Is What Hi-Fi? partly to blame for the dearth of proper audio equipment or just a symptom? I don't know but either way it's not good is it?
Hear, hear, Colin! :clap:
Remember, folks, those were the clowns who gave Mark Grant's cables a paltry 2-star review, and with it wrote the most incredible bollocks imaginable, completely at odds with what people who use his cables everyday hear.
Alex, and whoever else, are entitled to buy what mags they want, of course, but I'm afraid I detest what WHF represents. It's the complete antithesis of what AoS does, that's for sure!!
Marco.
Beobloke
09-02-2011, 10:48
I only subscribe to three mags. HFN, UNCUT, and of course, Rubber Pants Monthly! :eyebrows:
Marco.
:hmm::spank:
hifi_dave
09-02-2011, 11:41
Is What Hi-Fi? partly to blame for the dearth of proper audio equipment or just a symptom? I don't know but either way it's not good is it?
Unfortunately, they are just the worst of a very bad bunch.
To see how it should be done, get a copy of Hi-Fi News from the 60's or 70's. Interesting, useful articles written by knowledgeable technical people.
Rare Bird
09-02-2011, 11:52
Unfortunately, they are just the worst of a very bad bunch.
To see how it should be done, get a copy of Hi-Fi News from the 60's or 70's. Interesting, useful articles written by knowledgeable technical people.
:respect:
Too right
:hmm::spank:
Yes, sorry daddy, but I just buy HFW from my local newsagent every month. I couldn't be arsed filling out another subscription form! ;)
Marco.
March 2011 Hifi News is a jolly decent rag,nearly as readable as HFN in its heyday...the mag spoke to my preferences: analogue, a decent over view of a great music and equipment collection....bit of vintage...not much 'emerging tech' (leave that to HFC and mr steward zzzzzzzzz:eyebrows:)...all in all worth the read. I only actually by HFN, HFW and occassionally stereophile/tas/plush. everything else I need is on thee net. and dont even start me on streaming/computer/av/home 'cinema'/3D etc cos its faddish fadology and is transient twaddle for people with blackberry thumb :cool:
To see how it should be done, get a copy of Hi-Fi News from the 60's or 70's. Interesting, useful articles written by knowledgeable technical people.
Yes, the fat yellow bordered ones were a very good read.
Unfortunately, they are just the worst of a very bad bunch.
To see how it should be done, get a copy of Hi-Fi News from the 60's or 70's. Interesting, useful articles written by knowledgeable technical people.
Not so long ago I threw out about 6 feet's worth of HFN. Shame, but I didn't have the room.
hifi_dave
09-02-2011, 19:45
Hi-Fi News - 6 feet ? I've still got around 8 ft worth, though they are all stored away.
I chucked the late 80's to the late 90's because it was of no interest to me anymore. I shall probably chuck the noughties as well as these really are dross.
It's quite interesting (for a real nerd) to observe the thickness of the mags over the years. I started off early 1962 and the mags increased slightly, year on year until December 1970 which is just over 1 inch thick. From that issue they have slowly got thinner and thinner.
Hi-Fi News - 6 feet ? I've still got around 8 ft worth, though they are all stored away.
I chucked the late 80's to the late 90's because it was of no interest to me anymore. I shall probably chuck the noughties as well as these really are dross.
It's quite interesting (for a real nerd) to observe the thickness of the mags over the years. I started off early 1962 and the mags increased slightly, year on year until December 1970 which is just over 1 inch thick. From that issue they have slowly got thinner and thinner.
I still have 3 - 4' worth left though!
Read most of HFN on the train home, was indeed enjoyable, thanks for the tip Barry.
flapland
12-02-2011, 15:22
I've often said that WHF is perfectly adequate for number twos in the little room, if a tad shiny.
My favourite read is Stereophile.
Also read Sterophile but not the paper versions but a cheap online subscription from Zino. Able to read it on all of my poncey devices including iPhone, iPad and iMac. :eek:
I haven’t bought a Hi Fi mag for years I’m pleased to say :)
Every now and then an article gets drawn to my attention and much like Colin, the reason why I don’t bother with them comes flooding back :rolleyes:
Does anyone else remember the stink over a review of one of John Farlows amps?
If my memory serves me the reviewer got all pissy and slated the amp off because John Farlow said he wanted it back :lol:
Sort of says everything I’ve thought about the Hi Fi press in general for many years now.
hifi_dave
18-02-2011, 20:12
Have you heard the one about a Hi-Fi writer who raved incessantly about a certain Japanese amplifier and then a couple of months later went off to work for the manufacturer ? :doh:
Stratmangler
18-02-2011, 20:55
Have you heard the one about a Hi-Fi writer who raved incessantly about a certain Japanese amplifier and then a couple of months later went off to work for the manufacturer ? :doh:
The chap in question doesn't happen to work for Meridian now, does he ? :eyebrows:
Naming no names, I heard about a reviewer who gave a red-hot review to a certain manufacturers new flagship power amplifier, just after MD of said manufacturer coincidently gave him a car!
The best stories are about what a certain owner and distributor done to illicit good reviews
Beer wine and hookers but cannot say anymore
Naming no names, I heard about a reviewer who gave a red-hot review to a certain manufacturers new flagship power amplifier, just after MD of said manufacturer coincidently gave him a car!
With no disrespect Colin are we getting a little over excited here?
Surely "flagship" power amps dont sell in great enough quantities to allow cars to be given away......
The chap in question doesn't happen to work for Meridian now, does he ? :eyebrows:
And has started writing for HFN again? :eyebrows:
JazzBones
18-02-2011, 22:27
And has started writing for HFN again? :eyebrows:
Surely we're not talking about the same bod who short changed the Dynavector 507 tonearm, surely not:scratch:?
:piano:
Stratmangler
18-02-2011, 22:34
And has started writing for HFN again? :eyebrows:
Couldn't say - I haven't read HFN for a good while.
I read a revue of Läther in one of the rags sometime in the last 2 or 3 years (probably HFW) written by him IIRC.
Surely "flagship" power amps dont sell in great enough quantities to allow cars to be given away.
That rather depends on the value of the amp.
It's not a made-up story. I know the name of the company, the name of the reviewer, the product name and the type of car! And it was not a cheap car.
I don't know why you're at all surprised. Do you think the back cover of a Hi-Fi magazine is cheap?
I don't know why you're at all surprised. Do you think the back cover of a Hi-Fi magazine is cheap?
<click> got it. I'm not at all surprised.
Good grief chaps, steady on.
I’m sure there are some Hi Fi hacks who aren’t deaf, have a reasonable grip on the progress of technology and are absolutely unbiased and untainted by grateful donations from manufacturers…………………………aren’t there :scratch:
As well as HiFi News and HiFi World, I also picked up a copy of Hifi Choice, which I read on the train. I think it has been derided on here before, but I enjoyed it just as much as the others - a great one page column about Scalford, an article from Jimmy Hughes about the Quad 33/303 (I want that setup now!) and some good reviews including "luxury" standmounts.
As well as HiFi News and HiFi World, I also picked up a copy of Hifi Choice, which I read on the train. I think it has been derided on here before, but I enjoyed it just as much as the others - a great one page column about Scalford, an article from Jimmy Hughes about the Quad 33/303 (I want that setup now!) and some good reviews including "luxury" standmounts.
Hmm! He's done several volte faces recently. Perhaps he's becoming middle-aged? Remember, this man was at one time a card-carrying Beltist.
I’m sure there are some hacks who aren’t deaf, have a reasonable grip on the technology and are absolutely unbiased
I doubt there will be any at all who are totally unbiased. Are you? I'm not.
To be honest, I wouldn't totally trust the opinions of any Hi-Fi reviewer, or any Hi-Fi dealer of other individual. Everyone is biased, everyone has their own slant on things. I'd trust the opinions of a Hi-Fi reviewer less than most though. Over the years I've heard quite a lot about the kickbacks, freebies, friendships and bitterness within the Hi-Fi community. It's quite a small world and there is a lot goes on that few people know anything about.
So what's the point in buying a magazine when you can find what is probably more reliable information about the products on the internet? It's a shame, I liked the experience of lying on the couch flicking paper pages, but if they can't be trusted it's a hollow experience.
I do use magazine reviews to shortlist, those I trust at least. I also scour the internet but I don't like internet reviews and review sites as they seem mostly to be written by subintelligent beings.
For instance, I wanted to change my tyres to Falkens, having got right royally pissed off with my expensive Bridgestone runflats. The amount of proper information out there, compared with the biased crap, amounts to about 1%. My point is, you have to implement extreme filtering.
The amount of proper information out there, compared with the biased crap, amounts to about 1%.
I think that's a bit pessimistic but I agree that it's a slog trying to find useful information amongst all the dross and dribble.
Does anyone like runflats? What sort of car's it on?
BMW 335d M-Sport Coupe (remapped for 350bhp). The Bridgestones are not bad on a warm dry summer's day, but the less said about their performance in the winter the better. A single snowflake could have me off the road. Bloody white knuckle ride and they're hard as nails, too. They'll be gone on Wednesday :)
hifi_dave
19-02-2011, 10:19
That rather depends on the value of the amp.
It's not a made-up story. I know the name of the company, the name of the reviewer, the product name and the type of car! And it was not a cheap car.
I don't know why you're at all surprised. Do you think the back cover of a Hi-Fi magazine is cheap?
A back cover isn't cheap but it's nowhere near the price of a car. Might get you a set of good tyres though...:scratch:
Ali Tait
19-02-2011, 10:28
BMW 335d M-Sport Coupe (remapped for 350bhp). The Bridgestones are not bad on a warm dry summer's day, but the less said about their performance in the winter the better. A single snowflake could have me off the road. Bloody white knuckle ride and they're hard as nails, too. They'll be gone on Wednesday :)
I don't think that's just down to the tyres though! My BMW is easily the worst car I have ever driven in the snow, and I come from Braemar, a small village up in the Cairngorms which is in the Guiness Book of Records as the coldest place in the UK, and in an area that gets the worst winter weather in the country, so I know how to drive in the snow. Only real solution is to get winter tyres I think.
A single snowflake could have me off the road. Bloody white knuckle ride and they're hard as nails, too.
A guy at work it mates with a guy who works in a Landrover dealers. During the bad weather before Christmas they sold a LOT of cars! They had lots of guys coming in with BMWs, throwing their keys on the desk and saying, 'give me b***** four-wheel drive!'.
Lots of power and rear-wheel drive is never going to be much good in the snow, especially when the tyres in question are as wide as Del Trotter! That car's designed for performance, not snow.
I've never used runflats but I don't know anyone who likes them. I think more recent cars are a bit better though as they've designed the suspension around them. Everyone seems to think they are too hard though.
Vinyleyes
19-02-2011, 10:46
+2 to that ... I had a 535 and could not get it home half the time it started to snow ... A lot to do with rear wheel drive and fat rear tyres though! ... so any performance car will suffer. I was in Russia and as soon as winter hits everyone changes to snow tyres with studs .. but I believe they do not allow them in UK ?? The authorities just want you to run off the road and have the country come to a grinding halt :) ..
The cure ... get a set of snow chains, learn how to put them on then stick em' in the boot for a snowy day ............ then you will still be going when all around have slid off the road or are stuck halfway up that little hill on the way home ... :cool:
Oh .. and the coppers won't catch you either on the way back from the pub ,,, :ner:
I was in Russia and as soon as winter hits everyone changes to snow tyres with studs
It's a legal requirement to use winter tyres in some countries, Germany for one. Here, no one bothers.
If you think about it there is no way you can design a car or a tyre to be good at everything as many of the requirements for good performance in the dry and the snow are exactly the opposite. Look at old Landrovers or rally cars pounding through the snow. Do they have wide tyres? Nope, very narrow and chunky, huge tread blocks. Great in the snow, hopeless on dry tarmac.
You want to move in the snow, buy an old Landrover and leave the M3 at home ;0)
Ali Tait
19-02-2011, 11:36
You don't have to have snow tyres with studs. Winter tyres have a different rubber compound that allows them to maintain grip at very low temperatures, which is where conventional tyres fall down. They make a real difference when the weather is bad.
Stratmangler
19-02-2011, 11:50
Your insurance is invalid in the UK if you use Winter tyres.
Something to do with the tyres not being up to the same specification as those originally fitted to the vehicle.
So you do the obviously appropriate thing and by default you end up being a criminal.
Summat wrong there :scratch:
Ali Tait
19-02-2011, 12:03
Really? Didn't know that, I'll have to check with my insurers.
Vinyleyes
19-02-2011, 12:04
Snow chains are probably illegal as well ... but just stick em' on to get you home and noone's the wiser ..... and you dont marooned with the rest of the country..
Having said that ... the coppers would still probably stop you anyway if they saw you driving past a bunch of stranded cars and charge you with dangerous something or other :steam: !! This country of ours long ago "outlawed" people showing COMMON SENSE .. and initiative ... :mental:
This country of ours long ago "outlawed" people showing COMMON SENSE .. and initiative.
Ain't that the truth.
On the face of it the state of the Hi Fi press and forums might seem rather amusing.
Okay, this sort of “pals club” and recommendation for favors goes on in every industry.
The problem is, particularly with Hi Fi that the unaware get easily caught up in the hype and tend to reinforce it rather than the opposite.
It’s all very well telling people to trust their ears but audio is complicated and aural memory and discernment fallible and people don’t trust their ears it seems.
I can think of a few people I know who read this rubbish and base their buying choices on reviews; you just can’t get to listen to all the stuff on the market.
A bit of realism, honesty and rationality would go a long way towards injecting some much needed faith and money into the “Hi End” audio industry.
The state the industry is in it’s hard to argue with those who say one might as well get an mp3 player and be done with it.
The best thing to do is to latch on to a reviewer whose opinions and musical choice match yours. We're all biased, reviewers too, so be guided by those with a similar bias :)
Ammonite Audio
20-02-2011, 09:37
Your insurance is invalid in the UK if you use Winter tyres.
Something to do with the tyres not being up to the same specification as those originally fitted to the vehicle.
What utter crap. Quote and sensible advice from the Association of British Insurers (ABI):
If anything winter tyres should reduce the accident risk and, by implication, drivers who fit them are likely to be more risk-conscious too.
The major motor insurers have all confirmed that they would not class fitting winter tyres as a material modification and it would not impact on the premium. The one condition would be that they would expect such tyres to be fitted by reputable garage/dealer, in accordance with the motor manufacturer's specifications.
Some said that they would not require the policyholder to tell the insurer these tyres had been fitted, but the ABI's advice is to play safe and tell your insurer anyway.
This story was done to death in the media during the severe weather, and appears to have arisen because of a lack of awareness/training with call centre staff.
Some said that they would not require the policyholder to tell the insurer these tyres had been fitted, but the ABI's advice is to play safe and tell your insurer anyway.
Looks to me that there is still a risk of them wriggling out of a settlement if you've fitted winter tyres without telling them.
Ali Tait
20-02-2011, 11:22
On the face of it the state of the Hi Fi press and forums might seem rather amusing.
Okay, this sort of “pals club” and recommendation for favors goes on in every industry.
The problem is, particularly with Hi Fi that the unaware get easily caught up in the hype and tend to reinforce it rather than the opposite.
It’s all very well telling people to trust their ears but audio is complicated and aural memory and discernment fallible and people don’t trust their ears it seems.
I can think of a few people I know who read this rubbish and base their buying choices on reviews; you just can’t get to listen to all the stuff on the market.
A bit of realism, honesty and rationality would go a long way towards injecting some much needed faith and money into the “Hi End” audio industry.
The state the industry is in it’s hard to argue with those who say one might as well get an mp3 player and be done with it.
What I find strange is that some people WANT to be told what to think and what to like, instead of listening for themselves and making their own minds up. :scratch:
Last note on tyres: I've just informed my insurers that I am switching from run-flats to standard tyres, and they made a note and thanked me. No problem at all and no increase in premiums.
What I find strange is that some people WANT to be told what to think and what to like, instead of listening for themselves and making their own minds up. :scratch:
Sheer laziness, mate! Why do you think magazines like 'Which?' are so popular?
Why bother using your own faculties to make a decision when you can simply rely on those of 'experts'? :rolleyes:
However, I know where John's coming from.
Marco.
Sheer laziness, mate! Why do you think magazines like 'Which?' are so popular?
Why bother using your own faculties to make a decision when you can simply rely on those of 'experts'? :rolleyes:
However, I know where John's coming from.
Marco.
Or, in the blue corner, my dishwasher has packed up, and I don't have the time to trawl the internet to find out whether a Smeg is better than a Bosch, so Which? will answer that for me very quickly, thanks! ;)
Totally accept the point on hifi (or anything you care about, though) - one man's meat is another man's poison - which reminds me, looking forward to my "gift" in 3 weeks time Marco! :eyebrows:
Oh, you're in line for it, shweety, don't worry! :eyebrows:
Or, in the blue corner, my dishwasher has packed up, and I don't have the time to trawl the internet to find out whether a Smeg is better than a Bosch, so Which? will answer that for me very quickly, thanks!
You see that's where we're different. I care about everything I buy, not just hi-fi. Time, thankfully, I've got plenty of.
So if it had been me, I'd have done my OWN research first on which was the 'best' dishwasher for the price I was willing to pay, then shopped around for who had it in stock at the cheapest price, and bought it from there!
That's how I work. I like to use my own initiative and judgement on everything I buy. Del's the same. We've never bought a 'Which?' magazine in our lives, and don't intend to either!! ;)
As for hi-fi, I'd never DREAM of buying so much as a even a cable solely on the recommendation of a magazine.
Marco.
Beobloke
23-02-2011, 09:52
I’m sure there are some Hi Fi hacks who aren’t deaf, have a reasonable grip on the progress of technology and are absolutely unbiased and untainted by grateful donations from manufacturers…………………………aren’t there :scratch:
Well, I like to think there is at least one....:(
Over the years I've heard quite a lot about the kickbacks, freebies, friendships and bitterness within the Hi-Fi community.
So have I (and I know for a fact that a good few of them are overstated 'Chinese Whispers', incidentally). I just want to know why none of these freebies and kickbacks have come MY WAY??!! :doh:
I have to say that every industry is the same, and If I'm honest, magazine and journalist "bashing" doesn't really seem fair, and implies that the individuals have no sense of honour or indeed professionalism - which I am sure in most cases is just not true. But let's not forget that the job of a magazine and it's staff is to sell copy.
Sure, commercial pressures are going to influence matters, but to the degree (often implied) that a magazine will deliberately give a bad piece of kit a good review? I'm not so sure... As my old Granny used to say, if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all - perhaps most telling is popular kit from top manufacturers that is noticeable by its absence of a review? I don't know - just a guess.
As for "back handers" - well, I suppose it depends what they are, but "corporate entertainment" and in some cases freebies is not just limited to the world of hifi - I suspect all that may change though, with the 2010 Bribery Act, which if the noises coming from my firm's legal people is anything to go by will have a far more reaching effect than just a criminal bribing a jury...
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 11:10
The freebies, kickbacks, bungs, friends and othe inducements really do exist as almost anyone in the industry will confirm. It might just be as innocuous as giving an 'old pal' a good review, a nice business lunch, visiting the factory or foreign trade shows all expense spared or being given the product under review but it definitely goes on.
Even without the inducements, the mags can no longer offend those who advertise in their pages. You can't bite the hand that feeds you, so you end up with pages and pages of reviews which enthuse or are bland to the point of saying nothing constructive at all.
I don't know anyone in the business who treats the mags as anything else but 'comics', to be flicked through and binned. They are no longer works of reference as they once were.
Vinyleyes
23-02-2011, 11:27
Yes this is all very sad to listen to ... I used to remember years ago avidly looking forward to the Hi Fi mag coming out every month as it was very definitely the closest I could ever get to any kind of decent gear .. I even had my favourites forged from magazine reviews alone. Luckily of course I never had the money to buy any of it :) ... Slowly I began to sense a sameness of reviews .. criticism became a rare thing ,, and the same old favourites kept cropping up time and again.
So given that the hi fi reviewer now practically has his hands tied ... what does that make him ... an actor WRITING a script ?? And ... are there ANY publications .. or net reviews that give impartiality.
It is all well and good to say that one should always listen before buying but for many people reviews will still provide .. at the very least .. a short list of components to audition as it is simply impossible to spend that much time and effort to go and seek out and listen to everything !! ,,, Bake offs don't exist out there in punter's world .. :)
Beobloke
23-02-2011, 12:52
Even without the inducements, the mags can no longer offend those who advertise in their pages. You can't bite the hand that feeds you, so you end up with pages and pages of reviews which enthuse or are bland to the point of saying nothing constructive at all.
The trouble is, as I have said to readers who have asked me the age-old "Why so few bad reviews?" question - would you really want to buy a magazine that is filled with page after page of "This is crap; don't buy it" type reviews?
Whilst it may well make for some amusement for some people, it's self-defeating for all concerned and certainly of no help to anyone who buys a magazine with the intention of obtaining some guidance as to good quality equipment that they might like to consider auditioning.
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 13:10
In the good ol' days of the Hi-Fi mags, reviews were mainly objective and factual, written by engineers and experienced experts. The advice was always to go and listen for yourself.
Nowadays, the majority of reviews are completely subjective with the results totally dependant on one man's foibles, prejudices, taste, matching equipment and room. They are no more relevant than being told that chicken tikka from the Ealing Akash is the best in the World...:scratch:
Often, the reviews don't even fully describe the construction, design or ethos of the product. This is relegated to a paragraph or two with the remainder of the article describing how, to the writer's ears, the product coped with various dsics or LP's. I would like far more technical explanations, measurements, tests and internal pics to get an idea of the product's real worth. The 'sound' is best left to the potential purchaser.
The trouble is, as I have said to readers who have asked me the age-old "Why so few bad reviews?" question - would you really want to buy a magazine that is filled with page after page of "This is crap; don't buy it" type reviews?
Whilst it may well make for some amusement for some people, it's self-defeating for all concerned and certainly of no help to anyone who buys a magazine with the intention of obtaining some guidance as to good quality equipment that they might like to consider auditioning.
SO, truth or dare time - is there really that much crap equipment out there? I've often thought that in this day and age with the information revolution and democratisation of owner reviews (Amazon, Revox etc.) that any manufacturer (of anything substantial - from a washing machine to a car) can't get away any more with selling a pile of crap, as people just won't buy it - or, they will only buy it at a vastly reduced price.
I kind of figured that hifi would be the same, and anything truly horrendous would sink like a stone, and anything a bit ropey would drop to a class or two below in terms of pricing. Or have I got that completely wrong, and there's plenty of old tat for sale, at inflated prices?? Feel free to name and shame! ;)
(Lights blue touchpaper and retires!)
:sofa:
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 14:40
Well, one man's meat etc.
I can only speak for myself but I don't think there is a huge amount of kit worth consideration. I have to buy in all my stock, with my own money. I don't get freebies or even long term loans, so I have to be sure and very careful of what I buy. To be perfectly honest, even with money in my hand (bank), I struggle to find equipment which meets all my criteria.
I'm for ever listening and trying but I am struggling to fill my shelves and my product range is rather limited. Limited and pretty well all British.
Beobloke
23-02-2011, 14:43
In the good ol' days of the Hi-Fi mags, reviews were mainly objective and factual, written by engineers and experienced experts. The advice was always to go and listen for yourself.
.
The problem is that today technical specifications are increasingly meaningless to your average music lover in the street. Telling them that the unit in question is a bit bass light but has a lovely sweet top end tells them far more than quoting its -3dB low end rolloff as 27Hz and that it has a rising incidence of third harmonic distortion at 10kHz as its maximum power output is approached. We at Hi-Fi World measure everything because the magazine happens to be staffed with engineers who know our THD from our IMD and the measurements enable us to get a handle on what the equipment does and, indeed, whether it is working properly! However, readers still tell us that they never even read the 'Measured Performance' box and ask why we don't get rid of it.
I have many 1970s magazines where a 5 page review consists of four and three-quarters of a page of measurements and graphs and a paragraph of "it sounds quite nice". Frankly I think that this is about as much use as pages of flowery prose - the key is to strike a balance.
SO, truth or dare time - is there really that much crap equipment out there?
No comment! ;)
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 15:38
The problem is that today technical specifications are increasingly meaningless to your average music lover in the street. Telling them that the unit in question is a bit bass light but has a lovely sweet top end tells them far more than quoting its -3dB low end rolloff as 27Hz and that it has a rising incidence of third harmonic distortion at 10kHz as its maximum power output is approached. We at Hi-Fi World measure everything because the magazine happens to be staffed with engineers who know our THD from our IMD and the measurements enable us to get a handle on what the equipment does and, indeed, whether it is working properly! However, readers still tell us that they never even read the 'Measured Performance' box and ask why we don't get rid of it.
I have many 1970s magazines where a 5 page review consists of four and three-quarters of a page of measurements and graphs and a paragraph of "it sounds quite nice". Frankly I think that this is about as much use as pages of flowery prose - the key is to strike a balance.;)
Trouble is, that 'flowery prose' is just one man's opinion of that product in his room, with his system, using his music. It is of little relevance to the prospective buyer.
Objective measurements are pretty well cut and dried and can be queried or verified if necessary. Stereophile often manages a good balance of measurements and subjective listening tests, sometimess re-inforced by a second opinion. Of course, this takes time, costs money and requires experienced technical writers with the necessary gear.
Time and again I read write ups where the descriptions are scant with very little technical information or detailed pics. Just a paragraph or two if we're lucky and straight into 'first to spin was.....'
To see how it should be done, take a look at the Japanese or German mags. Real Hi-Fi porn if ever there was...:eyebrows:
Interesting that you find the majority of the Hi Fi you stock and consider worthwhile is British Dave.
Is it economic to trail some of the American muscle Hi Fi?
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 16:49
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. At some time or t'other I've done most respected US amp brands but it's not for me anymore. I find that with easy to drive speakers, the need for complicated, muscle-amps is just not there and I can make better sounds without.
It's back to easy going speakers and simple amps for me but I'd better avoid this subject now as I will be accused of 'marketing' ..:eyebrows:
would you really want to buy a magazine that is filled with page after page of "This is crap; don't buy it" type reviews?
One or two would be nice though eh?
You’ve got a nice spot over there in Radlett for high end audio what with Moor Park, Loudwater, Chorleywood, Heronsgate, Northwood etc ;)
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 17:03
One or two would be nice though eh?
Trouble is, you can't trust those either.
Some of my best selling products over the years have been rubbished by the mags. Two which spring straight to mind are Nottingham Analogue turntables and London/Decca cartridges and I'm sure I can think of more..:scratch:
I expect the UK market gets the magazines it deserves, if not the mags would have died. I don't suppose any of them are making heaps of money though. Anyone reading the mags needs to find one that suits them and get to know the pre-disposition of the reviewers. Just as you do when reading these forums. One way that reviewers do have an advantage over the average punter is that they've listened to and touched lots of kit. The same can be said for hifi_dave. So reviewers opinions are worth more than a less experienced person but just as we don't believe someone who says they have £20m in Nigeria and need help, we have to take care with anything we read.
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 17:10
You’ve got a nice spot over there in Radlett for high end audio what with Moor Park, Loudwater, Chorleywood, Heronsgate, Northwood etc ;)
You've missed the boat, we moved from Radlett to St.Albans in 1994 and from St.Albans to Saffron Walden in 2006. My only regret is that we didn't 'discover' NW Essex earlier.
As for big spenders in affluent areas - the best and nicest customers to deal with over the years have rarely been wealthy but the 'ordinary' man, appreciating good gear and saving for it...:trust:
Oh I can believe that ;)
I didn’t know you had moved, just goes to show how long ago it was when I lived out that way.
Good grief, I’m getting old :doh:
hifi_dave
23-02-2011, 17:23
Oh I can believe that ;)
I didn’t know you had moved, just goes to show how long ago it was when I lived out that way.
Good grief, I’m getting old :doh:
Aren't we all ? The only good bit of advice my Dad ever gave me was " don't get old Son ". You know, he was right !!!
Actually, I had to look up those dates as I just can't remember. It all seems like last year but we were in Radlett for 14 years and St.Albans for 11 years. It's like no time at all - just flown by.
I'm for ever listening and trying but I am struggling to fill my shelves and my product range is rather limited. Limited and pretty well all British.
Fascinating. I would really struggle to build a system of the quality of mine with all-British components.
Trouble is, you can't trust those either. Some of my best selling products over the years have been rubbished by the mags.
Yes, it was a joke.
The UK market gets the magazines it deserves, if not the mags would have died.
They have. Hollow husks are all that remain.
I think hollow husks is a little extreme. I followed the sentence you quoted with "I don't suppose any of them are making heaps of money though." So I agree the mags are not big successes.
The mags are niche, just as many hobby mags are, let's face hobbies are niche and perceived as nerdy nowadays.
hifi_dave
26-02-2011, 12:39
Unfortunately, they are less than niche. Apart from Grot Hi-Fi, the circulations are now just a few thousand per month. Even What Crochet Hook has more readers...:lol:
It's so sad but when you see the Japanese or German mags, even Stereophile, you can see how poor our mags are now.
Well, one man's meat etc.
Not sure I know a phrase starting "One man's meat..", at least not on a public forum.
Stereophile doesn't wow me.
Printed materials (and internet reviews) have to be a mix of entertainment and recommendation nowdays, not dry technical descriptions. People just aren't so technical any more and those that are don't need mags. Something that harks back to 1970's Hi-Fi News style would be even more niche than today's mag I'm afraid. The nub of the problem is not the mags but the market which is very fragmented nowadays. Many of the hi fi nerds (myself included) are more DIY oriented or buying cottage industry equipment direct.
I'd agree with you there Clive.
The magazines seem to appeal to a certain type of hifi enthusiast which is not necessarily representative of hifi enthusiasm on a grander scale.
They don't cover many smaller manufacturers like online publications do like 6moons, they don't cater for people buying secondhand like me (because of the massive price disparity between new/sound quality and old/sound quality), DIY is back with a vengance (mostly because of the crazy high prices of new gear), computer audio and USB dacs are another part of the hifi scene that aren't regularly catered for etc etc etc.
Then there are people who do want good hifi but don't want to spend money just to read about it when there are so many other opportunities to actually interact about it on forums..
I think the last is a big thing - why pay money to read about hifi when there's the risk that reviewers are biased because of advertising concerns when you can find people giving their independant opinions of the same gear online AND you can interact with them..
Perhaps there is more room for down-to-earth (rather than high priced, Asian taste orientated) versions of 6moons, but then where's the money in it? Magazines in general are going down the pan..
At least Hi-Fi World tries to tackle DIY and used equipment. It's all about money though, business. The McDonald's effect.
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