Thorens td160hd upgrade

[Lidsmoes]

Hello
I'd like some ideas for upgrading my Thorens td 160 hd turntable. I've had it about a year now and I'm fairly happy with it. It's set up with the standard oem Rega rb 250 and an Audio Note IQ-2 cartridge. Problem is it sounds a bit like a cd player to my ears. I'd like to add som tonal colour, depth and 'juice' to the sound.

How do I best proceed?

Thanks in advance!

best, Lars

[The Grand Wazoo]

What phono stage are you using Lars?

[Lidsmoes]

Hi Chris
I'm using the phono stage in my Plinius 9200.
Compared to an EAR 834p deluxe i demoed just recently it's more lean an a lot less euphonic. I really like the midrange of the EAR, but it's pretty dear in Denmark and I'd like to fiddle a bit on the spinner before changing the phonostage. I tried a Croft RIAA too - didn't work at all - I guess it's an impedance mismatch with the Plinius.

best, Lars

[Stratmangler]

Hi Lars

You might be able to get some ideas from here http://www.theanalogdept.com/thorens_td_160_dept_.htm - I have a TD125 MkII myself, and have no hands on experience of the TD160.

An SRM Tech rubber band around the periphery of the platter (thanks again Marco) works well to dampen ringing, as well as provide a small amount of additional mass to increase the flywheel effect to improve pitch stability.
I also use a cork mat, so mainly platter dampening again.


Cheers

[ourdogmax]

Isn't the 160HD an acrylic platter?
If so, ringing shouldn't be a problem.

[Stratmangler]

Isn't the 160HD an acrylic platter?
If so, ringing shouldn't be a problem.

Ah well, I did say that I had no hands on experience of the TD160;)

[Stratmangler]

Having had a look here http://www.thorens.com/turntables/drives/td-160-hd.html I can see that the 160HD is a fine fettled beast as a starting point.

I wish I'd seen that web page before I posted:doh:

[Lidsmoes]

Thanks guys.
Well damping isn't a problem.. It's stuffed with some RDC material and feels pretty dead - there's certainly no ringing.

It came with a corkish mat like this: http://www.analogueseduction.net/product/Blue_Horizon_Record_Mat_BHRM
which works very well and allows me to change the vta a slight bit.

[Lidsmoes]

Any thoughts on arm, pickup or power supply improvements?

[REW]

Hi Lars

I don't own a 160HD but have had one at home for a while to compare with my Michell Tecnodec. I found the Thorens/RB250/Goldring 1042 to sound very full and tonally coloured with my main setup (see signature), to the point where it was too full for me!

The AN cartridge is derived from a Goldring 1000 series so is likely to have a similar sonic signature.

I think the issue may lie in your phono pre-amp as others suggest, as this area has yielded significant differences for me. My current Beard was a lucky find and created a rich yet detailed presentation that immediately I heard it I knew suited me, in contrast to a rather thinner, joyless presentation from a previous Project pre-amp. Can you borrow a "known good" stand alone pre amp or two to try from a dealer or friend?

Hope this helps

Ron

[Lidsmoes]

Thanks for the advice!

[ppat2]

Hi,

A very old post here, but if you are still looking for an upgrade for the thorens, I have the same deck, and use a clearaudio virtuoso wood MM cartridge, and a clearaudio basic + phono preamp, with the accu (battery) power supply.

Works very nice, neutral with a tiny bit of warm/bass emphasis, but just enough to keep things musical without being bloated. Very good separation and detail without being bright.

[PLINIUS]

Thanks for the advice!
Hi Lars, your phono pre-amp is very good & is defineatly NOT THE PROBLEM.
The A.N./ Goldring will not challenge it in any way, in fact the arm & cartridge are the weak links on a Turntable as good as yours. Having heard this T/T with the SME derived M2 arm & Grado Sonata cartridge, it is a totally different beast.
At the very least the arm should be rewired, the bearings upgraded & counterweight system replaced. Change the cartridge to a Benz Micro Silver to achieve the type of full analoge sound you are looking for.

[ppat2]

Hi Peter,

Wondering if you might know something about this question, sounds like you have some familiarity with the new TD160HD.

The deck can be purchased new with the stock 250 arm, or an SME. Mine came with the stock 250 arm, and I've upgraded the cartridge to Clearaudio Vituoso Wood MM.

Any idea what the cost and effort might be for something like the SME M2 upgrade? The dealer where I purchased is no longer in business so I can't go there for advice/help on this one.

I like the deck a lot, and would be interested in an upgrade, but outside of changing belts and cartridges I have no experience with an arm upgrade. I am assuming that since you can buy this deck with either arm as an option, that the cutout in the deck is designed to handle both and might only require removing one and inserting the other?

[AlfaGTV]

I agree with Peter here, almost fully :lol:
I do like the TD-160(HD) concept, and i think you have a real sleeper in the TP-250 arm. Imo the first thing to do is to equip it with an alternate counterweight (and stub)! Personally i have found the Mitchell Technoweight excellent, and Origin Live also have options. If you like what you hear and want more, send the arm to Johnnie7 at Audio Origami for change of bearings and wiring.
Now you are ready or the icing on the cake! The pickup!
I have the Benz Micro Silver but cannot say i'm particularly fond of it...
Ortofon 2M Blue? Benz Micro Ace SL? Lots of alternatives, but you TT will cope!

Regards /Mike

[PLINIUS]

Hi Peter,

Wondering if you might know something about this question, sounds like you have some familiarity with the new TD160HD.

The deck can be purchased new with the stock 250 arm, or an SME. Mine came with the stock 250 arm, and I've upgraded the cartridge to Clearaudio Vituoso Wood MM.

Any idea what the cost and effort might be for something like the SME M2 upgrade? The dealer where I purchased is no longer in business so I can't go there for advice/help on this one.

I like the deck a lot, and would be interested in an upgrade, but outside of changing belts and cartridges I have no experience with an arm upgrade. I am assuming that since you can buy this deck with either arm as an option, that the cutout in the deck is designed to handle both and might only require removing one and inserting the other?
Hello Pual, you really have a lot of choices, the SME is quite expensive but does sound very good. You can go down the upgrade path with the 250 by rewiring it with Cardas Tonearm cable,replace the bearings and the counterweight system (with a Michell Technoweight).
The other thing to consider is your cartridge, which is a good match in the SME & is a good choice on your part, but you won't hear how good in the 250.
You will need to contact the Thorens distrbutors for a price or Acoustic Sounds, who sold them & are quite helpfull.
You have a lot to look forward to, good luck.:)

[PLINIUS]

I agree with Peter here, almost fully :lol:
I do like the TD-160(HD) concept, and i think you have a real sleeper in the TP-250 arm. Imo the first thing to do is to equip it with an alternate counterweight (and stub)! Personally i have found the Mitchell Technoweight excellent, and Origin Live also have options. If you like what you hear and want more, send the arm to Johnnie7 at Audio Origami for change of bearings and wiring.
Now you are ready or the icing on the cake! The pickup!
I have the Benz Micro Silver but cannot say i'm particularly fond of it...
Ortofon 2M Blue? Benz Micro Ace SL? Lots of alternatives, but you TT will cope!

Regards /Mike
That hardly ever happens now that I'm getting old Mike;)

[ppat2]

Hi Peter,

That is great advice about upgrading the tonearm cable and the counter weight. The SME arm would be too costly for me right now, so I am going to research the options you mentioned.

Thanks a bunch.

[PLINIUS]

Hi Peter,

That is great advice about upgrading the tonearm cable and the counter weight. The SME arm would be too costly for me right now, so I am going to research the options you mentioned.

Thanks a bunch.
A sensible way to go Paul, there is a lot more performance to be had from the Rega arm+ modded 250s are very easy to sell if, in the future, you find yourself in a position to upgrade.
I'm happy to have been of help, who knows, the boot may be on the other foot next time;)

[Audioman]

Lars.

There is a general concencus that Rega based arms aren't the best match for Thorens. Certainly the original 160. In spite of the suspension unipivots did work well (Mayware). On that basis the Roksan Nima may be worth considering. I don't see why the Jelco 750D wouldn't work at not a lot more than the cost of upgrading the Rega or just save up for an SME M2.

Paul.

[PLINIUS]

Lars.

There is a general concencus that Rega based arms aren't the best match for Thorens. Certainly the original 160. In spite of the suspension unipivots did work well (Mayware). On that basis the Roksan Nima may be worth considering. I don't see why the Jelco 750D wouldn't work at not a lot more than the cost of upgrading the Rega or just save up for an SME M2.

Paul.
Hi Paul, the HD is more Basis than traditional Thorens in design.
With the right arm & cartridge it sounds more like a P9 on steroids7273
I have fitted a VPI JMW-9 Tonearm to the HD & with Benz Micro Ace, with excellent results.

[curry49]

Hello
I'd like some ideas for upgrading my Thorens td 160 hd turntable. I've had it about a year now and I'm fairly happy with it. It's set up with the standard oem Rega rb 250 and an Audio Note IQ-2 cartridge. Problem is it sounds a bit like a cd player to my ears. I'd like to add som tonal colour, depth and 'juice' to the sound.

How do I best proceed?

Thanks in advance!

best, Lars

Install Grado wood-body cart (e.g. Sonata)
Or...(cheap-trick)...
Install metal platter from original TD-160 series.

Sure... I know this is an old thread, and the OP may have moved on. But this could help others in a similar situation (or not).

To the best of my knowledge, the TD160HD is a 're-arranged' version of the original TD160 (not a completely different model, as someone implied) so the platters are interchangable - mating with the same bearings on several similar models. (I know of someone using one of these acrylic platters on a 125, BTW).

Having owned a 145 (the auto-stop version of the original 160) I can attest to the fact that they sound 'full' and warm in the mids with their 2-piece cast-alloy platters. Definitely NOT like a CD-P. It is a well-known fact that TTs with acrylic platters (as with the later 160HD) tend to be a bit lean - on the cooler side of neutral, with a CD-like tonality. [Nothing wrong there - some like it, some don't.]

So, for anyone with a similar issue, just simply swap the platter and bring back that 'full-toned' traditional Thorens tone (which errs slightly on the warmer side of mastertape-neutral). No prob there!

Cheers. :)