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Wakefield Turntables
02-02-2011, 19:41
OK, this weekend i intend to install the next bag of upgrades to the 1210. These include full setup using the Adjust+ Pro version, correcting the Timestep HSE termination on the PCB. Making a sorbothane "bath" for the PCB to sit on to limit vibration getting to the PCB and finally (if time permits), making some pure silver powerleads and balanced speaker cables to replace the Isotek Elite powerleads and the Atlas balanced pure copper speaker leads!! :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows: Full report follows soon...

MCRU
02-02-2011, 19:47
Pure silver power leads, interesting.

Wakefield Turntables
02-02-2011, 20:01
David,

Have you ever had any experience with silver leads?? Would be interesting to know if you've had any improvements with the various leads that you sell. Also I have a Isotek GII NOVA filtering out all the crap in my system, so the idea is to make some new leads to replace the Isotek Elites, I was thinking about producing something like this http://www.madengland.com/product.power.php?key=27&page=3. It cant be that hard :lol:

Marco
02-02-2011, 20:01
Sounds like fun, Andrew - enjoy and report back! :cool:

Marco.

Tarzan
02-02-2011, 20:06
Sounds like fun, Andrew - enjoy and report back! :cool:
:)

MCRU
02-02-2011, 20:42
David,

Have you ever had any experience with silver leads?? Would be interesting to know if you've had any improvements with the various leads that you sell. Also I have a Isotek GII NOVA filtering out all the crap in my system, so the idea is to make some new leads to replace the Isotek Elites, I was thinking about producing something like this http://www.madengland.com/product.power.php?key=27&page=3. It cant be that hard :lol:

I thought my website was hard to navigate, that is the strangest website ever (almost).

They do look home made and as you say its not that hard to get some solid silver cable and put a decent IEC and mains plug on each end, in fact keep your money for a while longer as I have 1 pure silver mains lead left so you may as well try it for a bit as its sat here doing nothing, then you can tell if pure silver wire is the way to go without spending un-necessary wonga if it does not sound right in your system?

The ones I make use fairly thick cable so they should sound good, if you want to try one no problem and if it is good I can tell you where to buy the wire from.

Here it is just so you know I have it although you cannot see the silver wires!

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/DSCF3688-1.jpg

Wakefield Turntables
02-02-2011, 21:03
Many thanks for your kind offer!! Now how do I get hold of it so i can place it in my system?? I had quite a specific design setup for the power lead. The powerlead will go in the back of the Timestep power supply to start with then i intend to shuffle it around the various other components to see if it helps. I may be upgrading the power supply to a Paul Hynes but I havent decided yet. I was think about using 28 AWG cotton-insulated silver wire of .9999 purity this has a lower dialetic than teflon, tri-braided and then aluminium shielded for RFI & EMI and then maybe adding a polypropylene jacket for vibration control. I was also thinking maybe a Futuretech plug (Rhodium or silver plated), I think this lot should be upto Reference level?? Then maybe you could give me some advice regarding fuses??

MCRU
02-02-2011, 21:17
You won't need to mess about as the one I will send you has been optimizes for RFI etc, etc. I will advise what exactly is in it later as I have a few orders to go and do now. The good thing is as you say you can try it in a few different areas to see what happens, it has a good plug on already and I will put a super duper fuse in it for you as well, pm your address and I will post it off asap.

BTW despite what anyone else says, rhodium is not as good a conductor of electricity as other metals, silver is the best proven by simple laws of physics, then copper then gold. So silver plated copper would be about the best commercially available for hi-fi use. I happen to have what I think is the world's only Pure Silver IEC connector as well. Unless someone knows otherwise.



http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/BELDEN/metals.jpg

Reid Malenfant
02-02-2011, 21:28
Silver oxidizes like a muthaf***er though, gold doesn't at all which is why it's better for lazy gits that don't want to strip their plugs evey 6 months to remove the oxidization :eyebrows:

MCRU
02-02-2011, 21:39
Silver oxidizes like a muthaf***er though, gold doesn't at all which is why it's better for lazy gits that don't want to strip their plugs evey 6 months to remove the oxidization :eyebrows:

Mark,
Oxidized silver is still a good conductor, no need to strip them down at all.

BTH K10A
02-02-2011, 21:43
You won't need to mess about as the one I will send you has been optimizes for RFI etc, etc. I will advise what exactly is in it later as I have a few orders to go and do now. The good thing is as you say you can try it in a few different areas to see what happens, it has a good plug on already and I will put a super duper fuse in it for you as well, pm your address and I will post it off asap.

BTW despite what anyone else says, rhodium is not as good a conductor of electricity as other metals, silver is the best proven by simple laws of physics, then copper then gold. So silver plated copper would be about the best commercially available for hi-fi use. I happen to have what I think is the world's only Pure Silver IEC connector as well. Unless someone knows otherwise.



http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/BELDEN/metals.jpg



Just out of interest, where does platinum sit in the league table?

And what about carbon? VDH seem use carbon a lot.

Reid Malenfant
02-02-2011, 21:45
Mark,
Oxidized silver is still a good conductor, no need to strip them down at all.
Really? I wouldn't have thought so looking at it :scratch:

Actually i have never tested the oxidisation for resistance, i'll check it out, but it sure doesn't look nice :eyebrows:

It goes black if left long enough without cleaning..

MCRU
02-02-2011, 21:46
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/BELDEN/conductvity1.jpg

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/BELDEN/conductivity2.jpg

I thought this article was quite interesting myself.

MCRU
02-02-2011, 21:50
Really? I wouldn't have thought so looking at it :scratch:

Actually i have never tested the oxidisation for resistance, i'll check it out, but it sure doesn't look nice :eyebrows:

It goes black if left long enough without cleaning..

Quite right mate, I spent 10 years working in a jewelers when I left school and like you said earlier about cleaning plugs, we had to clean the silver jewelery every week as it went brown with the strong lights in the window making it tarnish quicker!

At least I know where to buy decent silver cleaner and cleaning cloths from!

MCRU
02-02-2011, 21:55
Just out of interest, where does platinum sit in the league table?

And what about carbon? VDH seem use carbon a lot.

Platinum I have no idea but even if it was top a 1 metre cable would probably cost 10 times more than the Nordost Odin? I think carbon is used as an insulator is it not?

Palladium is used for interconnects to devastating effect, this is one such beast below, costs £3800 for a 1 metre pair:-

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/BONI/blackrhodiumcantata.jpg

Marco
02-02-2011, 21:58
Hi David,


Mark,
Oxidized silver is still a good conductor, no need to strip them down at all.


Indeed. And I suspect that oxidised silver is still a better conductor than, say, untarnished Rhodium? ;)

Interesting chart, btw!

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
02-02-2011, 22:04
Quite right mate, I spent 10 years working in a jewelers when I left school and like you said earlier about cleaning plugs, we had to clean the silver jewelery every week as it went brown with the strong lights in the window making it tarnish quicker!

At least I know where to buy decent silver cleaner and cleaning cloths from!
Interesting what was said in that stuff you put up though Dave, i'm not sure if they are stating that oxidized silver is better than gold (as gold doesn't at all) but it says oxidized silver is better than the same but copper.. Click it ;)

3665

I'm not sure what to make of it, i guess if you have two clean silver terminals & connect them together where they are joined it won't oxidise, just stop air getting to it will prevent it ;)

I'm still going to test it out on some totally oxidised 925 standard silver & see if there is more resistance than with no tarnish :)

Reid Malenfant
02-02-2011, 22:05
I think carbon is used as an insulator is it not?
Carbon is a conductor, but not one of the better ones :eyebrows:

Spectral Morn
02-02-2011, 22:36
I really don't like the sound of VDH Carbon cables. I remember when they first came to market. The shop I worked in brought some in...Firsts and Seconds....yuck :spew:


Regards D S D L

MCRU
02-02-2011, 23:03
I am a mine of use(less) ful information depending on your point of view, the conductivity chart is on my website and had been downloaded by a LOT of people so has the UK mains supply, see for yourself (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/downloads.html) if you need some toilet reading.

Wakefield Turntables
03-02-2011, 19:54
To get back onto topic! I've started designing the sorbothane "bath" for the PCB. I've stripped the PCB and I've cut the Sorbothane to match the footprint of the PCB. Tomorrow I'll dismantle my 1210 fully and see where or how or if the idea of a "bath" can be applied to the PCB, I'll have to see how the Mike New modifications impact on my idea! I'll also modify the Timestep earthing as well whilst I'm there. :eyebrows:

MCRU
03-02-2011, 20:13
What is the point in suspending a PCB on a piece of soborthane dude, not being funny just can't see the point? Surely some decent cable for the PSU and new mains lead for it also and a fuse would work wonders?

Reid Malenfant
03-02-2011, 20:23
What is the point in suspending a PCB on a piece of soborthane dude, not being funny just can't see the point?
So you have never heard of microphony then David?

On top of that there is thermal distortion just to add for good measure :eyebrows:

MCRU
03-02-2011, 20:52
I know all about it guys but where does it all end? Just getting settled into some serious vinyl replay and boom, something else to consider. :steam::)

Reid Malenfant
03-02-2011, 20:55
It ends when you just can't be bothered taking it any further i'm afraid :eyebrows:

Sorry David, i agree lets just enjoy the music... However if the body & mind is willing then why not ;)

MCRU
03-02-2011, 21:00
If I had your system I would be spending ALL my time listening to music, well almost, but suppose you get bored too!

Reid Malenfant
03-02-2011, 21:11
If I had your system I would be spending ALL my time listening to music, well almost, but suppose you get bored too!
:lolsign: No-one on here has the faintest clue how my system actually sounds, i mean it really could be a pile of kaka. I'm fairly sure it isn't having heard a good few systems.

But yes, at the end of the day there is always more that can be done & i'm going to do some it within the next week :)

Then i guess not a lot will change if anything except for the speakers for a year or so. After that it all depends on how fast i can do DIY power amps from the ground up :eyebrows:

I'm very happy right now though tbh, i'm hoping in a week i'll be grinning like the Cheshire Cat :cool:

This has been a 30 year oddysey though at the end of the day...

ATB David.

Wakefield Turntables
04-02-2011, 12:36
So you have never heard of microphony then David?

On top of that there is thermal distortion just to add for good measure :eyebrows:

YEP thats what I'm using the Sorbothane for microphony. The thermal distortion is something that I might have to consider but I think that there should be plenty of space between the PCB and sorbothane as I'm only intending using the sorbothane in intrinsic base of the TT. I've rectified the timestep earthing and cleaned all my interconnects. Cant say I noticed that much difference, if anything whilst playing vinyl but I did notice the TT is now silent with sign of any hum. I turned my ATC 50 ASL's upto 3/4 volume, no hum was apparent only noise I heard was the faint hiss of the speaker drivers. The sorbothane "bath" design continues. Will keep you all posted.

Wakefield Turntables
05-02-2011, 20:46
Silver interconnects made up today. Will now start to compare these against my Valhalla interconnects on the 1210. Adjust+ not arrived yet so cant do the fine tuning to the V. :doh:

MCRU
05-02-2011, 21:07
Silver interconnects made up today. Will now start to compare these against my Valhalla interconnects on the 1210. Adjust+ not arrived yet so cant do the fine tuning to the V. :doh:

home made interconnects against valhalla, that will be an eye opener, mind you I tested a home brew mains lead against a brahma and mine beat it convincingly so maybe you have found a niche, start selling them!

Wakefield Turntables
06-02-2011, 10:19
home made interconnects against valhalla, that will be an eye opener, mind you I tested a home brew mains lead against a brahma and mine beat it convincingly so maybe you have found a niche, start selling them!

HMMMMMMmmmmm..... Might start selling them but I dont think enough people would buy them. I fitted pure silver tonearm cables with Teflon dielectric and added polypropylene + aluminium jackets to help protect against vibration, RFI and EMI. I terminated them in Eichmann silver bullets to my old original 1210 tonearm and it sounded very good ;). I stripped this away from the old tonearm last night and added some more Eichmanns to the opposite end and voila! Early indications are that on certain vinyl (thrash/heavy metal) there is no difference. Other stuff like vocal, jazz, prog the valhalla's seem markedly ahead. I did note that my old Marantz CD63se sound $hit loads better now using the homebrew silver interconnects!

Epicurus
08-02-2011, 08:24
Don't expect to hear any difference when listening to heavy metal records; most of them have crappy production (for instance, Venom's debut sported one of the worst recordings ever).

Wakefield Turntables
09-02-2011, 22:08
My upgrades have had to put on hold for a wee while! i developed a problem with my SME V or Nordost TYR tonearm cable. I'm having the SME sent upto audio origami full overhaul :eek: I'll update this thread when I have a little more information!

Wakefield Turntables
14-02-2011, 19:38
The SME V, and TYR tonearm cable have been sent to Audio-Origami for some serious tweaks. Heres what I intend having done to the V

1. Re-wire with teflon coated silver.
2. Silver cartridge tags
3. The cartridge tags will be directly attached to the internal rewiring just like
a technoarm.
4. Tonearm dampened even further.
5. Bearing checked and re-oiled.
6. Silicone cueing dampening refil.
7. Tyr tonearm cable terminated with Eichman silver bullets rather than those
crappy neutriks.

This should make things more clinical and forensic which is just how I like it:eyebrows: The adjust+ software has been dispatched so I cant wait to get the V back and then start to properly fettle!!

MartinT
15-02-2011, 09:01
I once made the mistake of buying a Nordost El Dorado silver power cable. I just couldn't get a good sound from it, no matter where I placed it. An ordinary RA Powerkord absolutely trashed it. Never bought Nordost again.

JazzBones
15-02-2011, 10:41
I once made the mistake of buying a Nordost El Dorado silver power cable. I just couldn't get a good sound from it, no matter where I placed it. An ordinary RA Powerkord absolutely trashed it. Never bought Nordost again.

Hi there Martin, I too use RA/Kimber power cords and the lower cost ones are good value for the outlay. Just goes to show you don't have to hand over the content of your bank account to get good sound, does it not :) ?

As a matter of interest do you use one of Russ's distribution blocks (the wedge shaped one) and if you do what do you think of them. At present I use one of their strips (daisy chain one with additional earth connection). If you don't use a RA strip what do you use or recommend, exclude the mega mega bucks ones please :)

I think that the former ed of Hi Fi+, Roy Gregory, use to go orgasmic over Nordost and the loom theory/practice, I believe he ended up working for them?

Another power cable I would like looking into is the Vertex AQ ones. Know anything about these?

Cheers

Ron :piano:

MartinT
15-02-2011, 16:29
Hi Ron

I do have a long RA distribution strip - it predates the wedgy ones. I use it for ancillary (video) equipment. It works just fine and is itself plugged in to an Isotek Evo 3 Mira video/audio filter. My main system distribution is straight from a PS Audio Powerplant Premier, I'm afraid - megabucks! It provides five clean isolated zones of regenerated power to the main system components.

Wakefield Turntables
15-02-2011, 19:44
I once made the mistake of buying a Nordost El Dorado silver power cable. I just couldn't get a good sound from it, no matter where I placed it. An ordinary RA Powerkord absolutely trashed it. Never bought Nordost again.

MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm this is an interesting comment I intended making up some silver power cords using some pure silver with teflon and cotton dialectic. I quite like the pure silver plug which mains cables r us are advertising, this with a well produced and designed cable protection should make for a good cable. I intend producing some pure silver power cords but they will be hard wired into my timestep HE powerpack and that way we get rid of the need of balanced / unbalanced connectors. In fact thats were the next set of "tweaks" will probably be based in and around the timestep power supply. But I think i need to get the tonearm back from AO and give these another month of being broken in and reviewing to see if any improvements have been made. I'll probably start tweaking the timestep power supply march / april time, improve the shielding, improve the fuse and cabling. I've still to finish designing the sorbothane bath for the techies PCB!!!

MCRU
15-02-2011, 20:04
up-grades need to be done one at a time to gauge the improvements (if any) IMHO

JazzBones
15-02-2011, 20:26
MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm this is an interesting comment I intended making up some silver power cords using some pure silver with teflon and cotton dialectic. I quite like the pure silver plug which mains cables r us are advertising, this with a well produced and designed cable protection should make for a good cable. I intend producing some pure silver power cords but they will be hard wired into my timestep HE powerpack and that way we get rid of the need of balanced / unbalanced connectors. In fact thats were the next set of "tweaks" will probably be based in and around the timestep power supply. But I think i need to get the tonearm back from AO and give these another month of being broken in and reviewing to see if any improvements have been made. I'll probably start tweaking the timestep power supply march / april time, improve the shielding, improve the fuse and cabling. I've still to finish designing the sorbothane bath for the techies PCB!!!

Hi Andrew, I too use the Timestep HE power supply for my 1210, MN bearing, copper platter so will be interested in your findings. As to grounding the HE PSU I followed the recommendation on this forum and attached the TS HE earth tag to the OV bottom left of the printed circuit board, I can't say I heard any difference having frist attached as per instruction sheet, maybe its me but bottom left is a better earthing connection. J7 of Audio Origami rewired my Linn Ekos for me plus damping etc. I did not get on with the Kondo cartridge tags, very fragile, so I had Johnny put the Clearaudio tags on instead. I used a TS anti resonator between my AT OC9II cartridge and the Ekos headshell but it seems to suck the life out of music playback so its coming out and I will go back to common practice of mating only cartridge to headshell, no resonator in between :( One has to try and experiment :).

I'm waiting for the performance trial between the Timestep HE PSU and the Paul Hynes SR5 that Martin T and Marco use only out of curiosity as I've gone as far with my 1210 as I want to go for the time being... there are certain aspects of my Linn LP12, cirkus, modded subschassis that I miss such as the timber of wood bodied instruments, viz: cello, violin, double bass, conga drums, flutes, Bosendorfer grand pianos, etc., which I enjoyed more from my LP12, however, as stated I have to refit the cartridge being used on my 1210 first and see if I feel the same way, a pesky job switching cartridges etc, no wonder people just go with computer downloads and cd?

Ron

JazzBones
15-02-2011, 20:40
up-grades need to be done one at a time to gauge the improvements (if any) IMHO

You're right on the button with that one David, plain common sense but something I disregard infrequently through just wanting to get the equipment up and running. A long time ago, when I was really into fidling and twiddyling I use to go back an undo an upgrade to see if performance fell, sometimes it did and at other times it made no difference.... even tried the cheaper end of Peter Belt stuff and still come across the odd sticky when a box comes out, nowadays I'm more questioning and more idle :eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables
16-02-2011, 20:16
Hi Andrew, I too use the Timestep HE power supply for my 1210, MN bearing, copper platter so will be interested in your findings. As to grounding the HE PSU I followed the recommendation on this forum and attached the TS HE earth tag to the OV bottom left of the printed circuit board, I can't say I heard any difference having frist attached as per instruction sheet, maybe its me but bottom left is a better earthing connection. J7 of Audio Origami rewired my Linn Ekos for me plus damping etc. I did not get on with the Kondo cartridge tags, very fragile, so I had Johnny put the Clearaudio tags on instead. I used a TS anti resonator between my AT OC9II cartridge and the Ekos headshell but it seems to suck the life out of music playback so its coming out and I will go back to common practice of mating only cartridge to headshell, no resonator in between :( One has to try and experiment :).

I'm waiting for the performance trial between the Timestep HE PSU and the Paul Hynes SR5 that Martin T and Marco use only out of curiosity as I've gone as far with my 1210 as I want to go for the time being... there are certain aspects of my Linn LP12, cirkus, modded subschassis that I miss such as the timber of wood bodied instruments, viz: cello, violin, double bass, conga drums, flutes, Bosendorfer grand pianos, etc., which I enjoyed more from my LP12, however, as stated I have to refit the cartridge being used on my 1210 first and see if I feel the same way, a pesky job switching cartridges etc, no wonder people just go with computer downloads and cd?

Ron

Ron,

Thanks for your comments! I must admit that i have not tried anything between the cartridge head but thanks for the tip. I'm also awaiting the difference betwen the two powerpacks as this could be where i'm going next but I have so many upgrades planned that's its a matter of just holding ones horses and seeing what happens when you add a few tweaks. My SME V has been gone now for 2 days and should be back in about a week. I've just recieved my pro version of Adjust+, this can do all sorts of weird and wonderful things like measure speed stability, measure the resonance of your tonearm, it sounds like a great piece of kit but I'm gonna need a weekend!

I had a very highend LP12 (still got but its a bit stripped at the moment!), I love music to be forsenic in nature and the LP12 just added a little too much of its own character for my liking. I'm trying to get my 1210 like a pathologists morgue (bloody clinical :lol:). I cant say that changing the earth tag made any difference but it was a simple 10 minute mod and I feel better for doing it. I think ever little can help and so long as dosen't harm its all good! Well I'm hoping to get the deck fully setup in the next 2 weeks but the homebrew cabling may take a little while longer depending upon suppliers and how I want to design it!! :cool:

JazzBones
17-02-2011, 18:03
Hi again Andrew, the experiments are still with me. I've dug out of the garage a small sheet of lead, approx 2mm thick and I am going to make a mat sandwich with this between the stock 1210 platter and my copper mat/Achro. This I feel will first of all negate any stock platter ringing plus adding more weight to the overall platter as a whole, my MN bearing and TS HE PSU can cope with the extra weight. The lead sheet I will use weighs about the same as the copper mat. The experiment is easily reversable :)

If the above works then out will come my newly purchased jar of petroleum jelly (jelo ;) )/Vaseline to make a better bond... a Mike New idea.

As my moniker implies I am a keen enthusiast of Jazz, not the way out stuff or the plinky plonky variety and because I have used my LP12 for far longer, to me it has the edge when playing jazz for me at the moment. It will take alot for me to ditch my LP12... the Linn does need precise set up from time to time, nothing like what is said, and I have the ability and tools to do this, as a consequence my Linn is on song for me. However, my Tekko is a very good performer as well, just different and its difference I like from time to time. As I have said before if we were all the same with the same likes and dislikes then forums like this would only go so far before they disappeared.
Keep us informed how you are getting on?

Ron :)

Wakefield Turntables
17-02-2011, 20:39
Ron,

Some pretty cool comments:) Nice to hear that your experimenting with the lead and stock platter. The MN bearing will easily cope with a little extra lead on your stock platter. I just did a little experiment for you.The MN platter weighs in at about 14 pounds if you have the copper version like I have. So you could go a lot thicker than your 2mm. Incidently I use an old garrard 301 mat and I've found this works quite well in dampening a stock platter, might be cheaper than an achromat??

I think this weekend will be taken up pattern cutting the sorbothane bath, this will be used to try and dampen vibration to the 1210's PCB I got this idea when I tried out a £3k top end NAIM phonostage except the PCB is mounted on springs to stop vibration getting to the PCB, well i've got shed loads of sorbothane so thats my version. I'll probably start getting the cabling designed soon. I have been speaking to some supplier who can cut sorbothane down to about 0.5mm thickness, this will be used as an extrinsic dampener to my silver cabling, I'm now looking for a process to stop the silver from oxidising (sic).

JazzBones
17-02-2011, 23:21
Hey Andrew, thats very interesting what you've planned with the sorbathane damping. I use an Audioquest sorbathane diam 2.5" x .75" round disc on a slate coaster on the outside and under the bearing housing to (hopefully) dampen vibration and support the deck on five points, the four normal Isonoe corners plus the one I have just mentioned. The whole sheabang sits on a Townshend Siesmic sink (bellows & spring). Supporting the PCB boards is an interesting possibility. As to the thicker lead sheet I did try various builder's merchants but they only sold it on a whole reel costing circa £80.00! So I'm just using what I have for experimental purposes the only cost is my hobby time. If the lead damping mat bonded to the stock platter works then maybe (?) there will not be a need to go for the MN platter which visually leaves me wanting something that looks better and not having the internal wiring showing as per some of Martin T's pictures....sorry Martin :( , besides I'm rather fond of the Tekko outer strobe platter as it is a reminder of the Technics 1200/10 itself and a constant visual check to see if the deck is operating at constant correct speed

The work for us continues :rolleyes:

Ron :lol:

MartinT
18-02-2011, 07:04
there will not be a need to go for the MN platter which visually leaves me wanting something that looks better and not having the internal wiring showing as per some of Martin T's pictures....sorry Martin

Just to put this into perspective, those wires only show under flash photography. In normal use, I am never aware of seeing them. Secondly, my platter is a prototype and I believe Mike puts more of a lip on the production ones.

John
18-02-2011, 07:22
I use silver mains cables and work fine with my system They have a huge effect on my balanced mains and power amp and quite a big effect on my copper DAC/PRE
I think like everything else with cables the quality of the materials and how well its constructed makes a huge difference. These cables replaced thoses huge cables PS Audio used to make. I had quite a few other cables through my time, the best thing I can say is that I no longer play around with cables I just do not feel the need for that

Wakefield Turntables
18-02-2011, 12:01
Just to put this into perspective, those wires only show under flash photography. In normal use, I am never aware of seeing them. Secondly, my platter is a prototype and I believe Mike puts more of a lip on the production ones.

Yep, I can confirm that i have a production version, theres is indeed more of a lip on the outer perimeter of the platter and you cant see any wires.

Marco
18-02-2011, 12:22
No wires visible here with my MN platter :)

Remember that Martin has the base plate fitted, which raises the platter up quite a bit, so that's the reason why you can see the wires inside the deck.

Andrew's got this too, but his is new platter with a deeper 'skirt', which covers the internal wires.

Ron, by all means 'fettle' the stock Techy platter any way you wish, and I hope you get the upgrade you're looking for, but don't rule out the MN platter because you don't like the idea of wires showing, because it's simply a non-issue either way (base plate fitted or not) with one of Mike's current designs :cool:

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
18-02-2011, 14:47
Don't rule out the MN platter because you don't like the idea of wires showing, because it's simply a non-issue either way (base plate fitted or not) with one of Mike's current designs :cool:

Marco.

Ron,

I love the ideas of what your doing with your platter, just like me, a complete tweaking nut (maybe??) :). But on a more serious note (bad pun!!), i think marco does have a point. I'm currently spinning a stock platter and I have noticed a MASSIVE difference in things like microdynamics and details, size of soundstage, bass not as powerful, intimate vocal not as intimate the list goes on.................. The 1210 still sounds great but not GREAT if that makes sense. Anyway, am off now to start cutting the sorbothane bath!!

Marco
18-02-2011, 15:08
Indeed, Andrew. No doubt the stock platter can be tweaked with some success, but quite frankly there's no comparison between it and the MN one, as the sonic improvements you describe with Mike's platter are FAR from subtle! :)

Marco.

JazzBones
18-02-2011, 16:00
Just to put this into perspective, those wires only show under flash photography. In normal use, I am never aware of seeing them. Secondly, my platter is a prototype and I believe Mike puts more of a lip on the production ones.

Martin, my apologies without reservations, if I offended through my perception of your MN platter, I now understand what has happened and it was brave of you to trail blaze with the proto type platter. No doubt if wasn't any good back it would have gone to Sydney :)

The trouble with the written word from afar is there is no face to face or body language in play and therefore the written word, if not skillfully used, can be misconstrued at worst as an attack or as a point of dismissal... the widgets available here go part of the way to convey a writers thoughts at the time of writing, ie: :):) for me at this moment and previously :)

I don't want to be misunderstood regarding my stance on the MN platter, its merely a visual thing for me and even that is flawed as I have yet to actually see and touched one. What I don't negate is the platters performance.

The stock platter I use was raised a fraction, possibly by 2mm, when I installed the MN bearing and I'm given to understand that this is normal.

Your reviews are good and worthy and don't have the taint of possible advertising revenue loss should your review be a negative one, I believe it does happen?

Ron :cocktail:

JazzBones
18-02-2011, 16:24
No wires visible here with my MN platter :)

Remember that Martin has the base plate fitted, which raises the platter up quite a bit, so that's the reason why you can see the wires inside the deck.

Andrew's got this too, but his is new platter with a deeper 'skirt', which covers the internal wires.

Ron, by all means 'fettle' the stock Techy platter any way you wish, and I hope you get the upgrade you're looking for, but don't rule out the MN platter because you don't like the idea of wires showing, because it's simply a non-issue either way (base plate fitted or not) with one of Mike's current designs :cool:

Marco.

I don't doubt for one minute what you say is not correct, I'm just going through a, 'what if I do this or that' stage at the moment. I still wish Mike would come up with a sub and outer platter such as Thorens, Linn and so on. The inner platter would have to be larger to accommodate the rotars underneath, and the outer would provide some form of fly wheel effect (not necessarily required with a DD such as my 1210) but to me it would be visually more apealing... just think of all the fun I could have polishing the outer rim to a mirror finish as per my LP12 :eyebrows::rolleyes::lol:

Marco, I'm befuddled here mate, do you not have a MN strengthening plate in conjunction with your MN copper platter, if this is the case then why not?:scratch:

Off to do a bit of metal bashing (not the heavy stuff)

Ron:hmm:

Marco
18-02-2011, 17:13
Hi Ron,

I didn't go for the base plate because I wanted to assess its effect in isolation, over and above the effect of the MN platter, so if people ask me what it does, I can say :)

I'll do the comparison tomorrow at Martin's when we swap T/Ts, using the same MN platter, which should be interesting.

If the base plate makes a noticeable improvement, I'll order one from Mike. Martin will also get the chance to ascertain whether the copper top plate on my platter makes a worthwhile sonic improvement.

Lots of Techy and T/T shenanigans tomorrow, so it should be fun! :cool:

Marco.

JazzBones
18-02-2011, 18:19
Hi Ron,

I didn't go for the base plate because I wanted to assess its effect in isolation, over and above the effect of the MN platter, so if people ask me what it does, I can say :)

I'll do the comparison tomorrow at Martin's when we swap T/Ts, using the same MN platter, which should be interesting.

If the base plate makes a noticeable improvement, I'll order one from Mike. Martin will also get the chance to ascertain whether the copper top plate on my platter makes a worthwhile sonic improvement.

Lots of Techy and T/T shenanigans tomorrow, so it should be fun! :cool:

Marco.

This is one write up I can't wait to read. It would be good if both you and Martin did seperate reviews without recourse to the other's notes and impressions?

I paid a 'sticky beek' visit to the holistic otherworld today without the aide of a medium :lol: and the boss man was mightly pleased that Hi Fi World had given an enthusiastic okay to the TS bearing and PSU. See FEB 2011 page 45 where DP replied to Michael Moore's letter. I wonder if that was THE Michael Moore who had made searching films of the George W Bush administration years and was now turning his attention towards audiophilia? By the way what happened to the holistic approach? :scratch:

Ron :confused:

Mike_New
20-02-2011, 00:28
No wires visible here with my MN platter :)

Remember that Martin has the base plate fitted, which raises the platter up quite a bit, so that's the reason why you can see the wires inside the deck.

Andrew's got this too, but his is new platter with a deeper 'skirt', which covers the internal wires.

Ron, by all means 'fettle' the stock Techy platter any way you wish, and I hope you get the upgrade you're looking for, but don't rule out the MN platter because you don't like the idea of wires showing, because it's simply a non-issue either way (base plate fitted or not) with one of Mike's current designs :cool:

Marco.

The one consideration I have to be aware of in maching the platter is the fact that some people (like Marco) do not have my Bearing Base Plate. (which raises the whole assembly up by 6mm). Thus there is a compromise between providing a platter to suit those who do not currently have a Bearing Base Plate, and those who may buy one later.

If I make the peripheral skirt to deep, then for those who have not fitted my Bearing Base Plate; the skirt will fowl on the three raised posts (3.5mm high) which sit around the bottom lip of the chassis, and which serve to locate the large black cover (which cannot be used with my Platters anyhow!).

I could make the skirt even deeper, but this would require that the three locating posts be removed. I do try to get as close as possible to the ideal, but there will always be people who seem to confuse excellent sonic improvements with sexy looks, which frankly totally confounds me!!

I am striving to provide an upgrade path which is viable for the average person who does not have the 'readies' to procure the whole set of upgrades at the one time, as some people are able to do! Rather to progessively upgrade from Bearing and or Base plate to platter to copper arm board.

As Martin advises, his platter was one of the earlier ones where I was testing the range over which I could savely set the machining parrameters.

I have now fixed on a set of dimensions which I believe will suit most circumstances.

JazzBones
20-02-2011, 15:23
I could make the skirt even deeper, but this would require that the three locating posts be removed. I do try to get as close as possible to the ideal, but there will always be people who seem to confuse excellent sonic improvements with sexy looks, which frankly totally confounds me!!

I am striving to provide an upgrade path which is viable for the average person who does not have the 'readies' to procure the whole set of upgrades at the one time, as some people are able to do! Rather to progessively upgrade from Bearing and or Base plate to platter to copper arm board.

As Martin advises, his platter was one of the earlier ones where I was testing the range over which I could savely set the machining parrameters.

I have now fixed on a set of dimensions which I believe will suit most circumstances.

Mick, it was probably me that triggered your response about looks and function and its a fair point mate. But some of us have our systems, including record player, in our living area space we share with wifey the majority of whom would wishfully want you to park your gear in the car port or the sanctity of a man's shed :eek: so somewhere along the way, for domestic harmony's sake the look of equipment has to be considered, and I am well aware of the prob this gives you.
I mean MartinT has your proto type platter and it serves him well but in his drive way he has a beaut looking BMW and would probably not be happy driving a ute :lol: Good looks and function can go together I think so I urge you not to be confounded by someone who likes the two to go together. Don't read me wrong here I AM NOT KNOCKING YOUR PLATTER as testimony from others here confirms that its a goody and I believe them and I myself am considering the whole package. A two part platter, I believe, does prevent ringing if done properly and more than likely does away with the need for the outer rubber band that is used? It gives me cause for mirth that there are some who are very voluable about their dislike of 'rubber band' drive fruit box turntables yet the Tekko sits in a vulcanised rubber bonsai tray which, at a later day, can have a rubber band around the platter. I mean whats wrong with rubber, it helps keep unwanted pregnancy in check:rolleyes:;):)

Respect for your engineering skills, buy ya a beer when I'm in Sydney next :glug:

Ron

Wakefield Turntables
20-02-2011, 18:17
Just a few quick questions! The sorbothane "bath" is nearing completion. I've produced a paper prototype ready to be fabricated in 3mm homocopolymer next week! The whole idea of the "bath" is to coat the innards of the 1210 with a 2-3mm layer of sorbothane to stop vibration getting to the PCB. Now this may prove difficult for those of us who have a MN bearing, baseplate etc but thats another weeks problem :eyebrows:. I got round to thinking that if i'm going to "carpet" the innards of the 1210 in sorbothane it also gives me an ideal chance to include a couple of very thin layers of adhesive aluminium in there as well to try and increase the protection of RFI & MFI, the sorbothane obviously hopefully vibration. My thoughts being to have one layer of aluminium on the underside of the sorbothane and then another layer ontop. Then i got round to thinking if you have the MN platter you have a massive rotating platter protecting the PCB to some extent against RFI and MFI. Then this got me wondering what type of metal (alloy) the 1210's PCB is mounted onto:scratch: Can anyone answer this question for me:scratch:

I think the sorbothane will come in 2 flavours. One for the stock 1210 and then one for the 1210's which have various MN modifications. The "footprint" of the sorbothane carpet will be radically different bewteen the two machines.

Secondly, and this is a question for Mike New, Mike, how much space is left in the bearing pit once your bearing is installed:scratch: I was wondering if we could get a small piece of sorbothane in there to minimise vibration getting to the bearing?? In your opinion do you think its worth doing :scratch:

MartinT
20-02-2011, 21:21
I'll do the comparison tomorrow at Martin's when we swap T/Ts, using the same MN platter, which should be interesting.

Marco and I performed the comparison yesterday: his production MN copper/aluminium composite platter versus my prototype aluminium/brass insert platter on my turntable. The only other variable is that we used Marco's Blue Horizon mat with his platter and my Achromat with my platter (my platter has Vaseline on its surface and we thought it best to keep to the mats best optimised to the platters).

One observation: Mike New's production platter sits a little lower compared with mine, giving my arm some welcome vertical travel to accommodate different cartridges. This wasn't a problem for the Dynavector 20X2L used for testing.

The summary is short and sweet: Marco, Hugo and I struggled to hear a difference and could not reliably tell the platters apart. To all intents and purposes, they sounded so close to each other that the difference was immaterial.

Mike_New
21-02-2011, 01:12
Just a few quick questions! The sorbothane "bath" is nearing completion. I've produced a paper prototype ready to be fabricated in 3mm homocopolymer next week! The whole idea of the "bath" is to coat the innards of the 1210 with a 2-3mm layer of sorbothane to stop vibration getting to the PCB. Now this may prove difficult for those of us who have a MN bearing, baseplate etc but thats another weeks problem :eyebrows:. I got round to thinking that if i'm going to "carpet" the innards of the 1210 in sorbothane it also gives me an ideal chance to include a couple of very thin layers of adhesive aluminium in there as well to try and increase the protection of RFI & MFI, the sorbothane obviously hopefully vibration. My thoughts being to have one layer of aluminium on the underside of the sorbothane and then another layer ontop. Then i got round to thinking if you have the MN platter you have a massive rotating platter protecting the PCB to some extent against RFI and MFI. Then this got me wondering what type of metal (alloy) the 1210's PCB is mounted onto:scratch: Can anyone answer this question for me:scratch:

I think the sorbothane will come in 2 flavours. One for the stock 1210 and then one for the 1210's which have various MN modifications. The "footprint" of the sorbothane carpet will be radically different bewteen the two machines.

Secondly, and this is a question for Mike New, Mike, how much space is left in the bearing pit once your bearing is installed:scratch: I was wondering if we could get a small piece of sorbothane in there to minimise vibration getting to the bearing?? In your opinion do you think its worth doing :scratch:

Andrew:

It is my judgment that any layer (2-3mm) of sorbothane or silicone inside the cast alluminium chassis will not contribute greatly to any vibration damping, since the effective stiffness of the casting although low, would overcome any damping afforded by just 2-3 mm of material, you would require a great deal more.

Before perusing alternatives, I will respond to you question about the bearing.
There is about 1.5mm clearance at the bottom of my bearing.

I do however think that perhaps you are approaching the project from the wrong justification point of view. Any affect of vibration on the PCB will be absolutely minimal, it is a reasonably stiff well assembled component, with few capacitors which could be affected; mainly digital chips and resistors. What we should be considering is the affects of the acoustic feedback from the listening environment and the internal scrambling of the acoustics at the cartridge; due to less that ideal dampening of the chassis system as a whole.
My Bearing Base Plate does a lot to improve on the latter, however consideration of the following should further improve the acoustic value of my upgrades.

Rather, what we should be looking at doing, is to actually bond, or form a sorbothane blanket, between the alluminium chassis and the heavy cast composite centre-piece. Which is what I have just recently done on my new MK6. This absolutely binds the two components together as a rigid but compliant structure. Which then sits in the excellently designed and well fitting rubber Base.

This approach was suggested by Yves in Canada about 7months ago, I believe he used a silicone compound and used the very thin “cling wrap” in order to prevent the silicone from adhering to the chassis. Thus forming a separate but accurately matching blanket between the two. If you are reading this Yves you might respond and include your images again.

The object of the centre-piece, I believe, was to effect a dampening and stiffening of the chassis. However, in fact the centre-piece is not a particularly good fit/match to the alluminium chassis and therefore seems to do nothing in performing its intended function.

For those folks who have purchased my Bearing Base Plate, and have therefore drilled clearance holes into the centre-piece for the nuts, then you could take this path to the final ultimate upgrade (at little cost) by bonding the chassis and centre-piece together as a whole, as I have done.

Doing so does not detract from access to the wiring. However it does preclude easy access to the three nuts, which secure the arm board.
Especially if you are still using the original arm assembly. For this reason I have produced a tapered nut which permanently fits into the three tapered holes from underneath. This allows the very easy and convenient removal of the arm from the top of the unit if you are using a replacement arm and board.

I can provide additional info/advice for those who are interested.

Wakefield Turntables
25-02-2011, 15:41
MIKE!

As always thanks for your comments. I would be most interested in seeing what other things you have done to improve the base plate! Any chance of posting some of your pictures here so we can all tweak to our hearts content :)

Just to change subject, J7 from Audio-origami has finished tweaking and serviced my V! When I get this back I'm going to completely rebuild my 1210 and then finally use the Adjust+ software to set the things up. Then I can start to post some data about the decks performance :cool:

Mike_New
26-02-2011, 07:14
MIKE!

As always thanks for your comments. I would be most interested in seeing what other things you have done to improve the base plate! Any chance of posting some of your pictures here so we can all tweak to our hearts content :)


Hi Rexton here are a few pic showing waht I have done with my MK6

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/509/tonecableoutlethole.jpg

This one shows the hole I have drill into the back of the Rubber Base which is roughly in line with the output socket of my SME-V No kinks or sharp bends in the cable.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/16/cutoutfortonecable.jpg

This one shows the cutout to clear the bottom of the plug socket assembly.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6568/middlecasting.jpg

This pic shows the middle 'composite material' casting. It is a pretty rough, and in fact is less rigid than the MK2 or 3 as a large piece has been cut away to allow for the reset button on the speed control, not good! same as the MK5 I believe.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1682/chassiswithpolyeurothan.jpg

This is not a pretty picture and will probably put some people off.
However trying to apply these very sticky matterials over a large area is not easy. The excess was cleaned off with Acetone, after the pic was taken.

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3318/chassisandmiddlegluedto.jpg

This shows the middle casting placed into position onto the bottom side of the chassis which is now coated with polyuerothane. Again most of the excess was cleaned off before attaching the rubber base.
The rubber Base was quickly placed into position and tightly bolted to the chassis. The whole was allowed to stand for two days to thoroughly set.

The above procedure will most certainly be seen as a bit radical for many people. However I do believe that it represents probably the ultimate process to achieving a viable housing for the DD drive that can be realised without a large amount of money being spent on a totally new chassis/plinth, which I do not believe is justified.

If I were doing another one, I would apply the matterial to the composite casting, as it is smaller in area compared to the chassis and therefore you do not apply the stuff where it is not needed as I did!!!
Secondly you could cover the chassis with two layers of 'Glad Wrap" which will prevent the material from adhering to the chassis. but will allow the material to exactly follow the profile of the chassis as it sets.
This way you will finish up with a blanket of the material coated to the inner surface of the centre casting when you separate the two, and which will fit snugly to the chassis on re-assembly.

MartinT
26-02-2011, 08:05
That's very radical, Mike. Presumably you have sacrificed the ability ever to open it up again?

Mike_New
26-02-2011, 09:22
Hi Martin,
Yes in this instance I will not be able to separate the Chassis and the centre moulding. But this doe not worry me as I do not expect to need to.
As I said earlier all the wiring can be accessed with the two parts permanently connected, so it is not a big deal. All that has to be considered is access to the bolts which clamp the tone arm so I have used captive nuts into the tapeared holes.

Wakefield Turntables
26-02-2011, 17:17
Mike,

Many many thanks! I think i may try this out!! This is sort of what I had in mind except using sorbothane on the inside of the chasis. I can make the sorbothane as thick as I like so with your mod on the underside and maybe the sorbothane on the inside the chasis will be well and truly dampened! :eek: Have you noticed any sonic differences as I have heard that too much dampening can suck the life out of music?? Incidently I have had to produce a similar cut out
on the underside of the 1210 to mount the stupid 90 degree connector at the base of the V!!

Regards

:cool:

Tarzan
27-02-2011, 09:44
Some neat cutting there Mike:)

Mike_New
27-02-2011, 10:22
Andy,
All you need is a 'Dremel' type tool with the coursest emery wheel, it cuts into the rubber very quickly.

Tarzan
28-02-2011, 08:48
You have not seen me with any tools in my hand Mike.:)

Marco
28-02-2011, 09:26
Lol, Andy, you might want to rephrase that!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Mike_New
28-02-2011, 11:03
Andy,
I can't wait any longer!!!

Spectral Morn
28-02-2011, 11:10
:lol::lol::lol::lol:


Regards D S D L

Wakefield Turntables
28-02-2011, 16:36
Got the V back today from Audio Origami. Very I have had several hours listening to it so far and can report that several things have happened. Soundstage has improved further, micro-detail pickup has been increased, vocally artists appear more intimate, and sibilance has been decreased as well. The edge of notes appear to be better defined, this is something I could never quite picture but now I see what people mean by this statement. I'd even say that there was a little extra space between instruments. I can see further the mix of a record and there have been several occasions where I can hear artists talking to each other in-between tracks just before they start playing. I have yet to start using the Adjust+ pro software so that is going to be this weeks "toy" over the next few evenings. My next series of tweaks will be upgrading my Atlas balanced speaker cables and replacing my Isotek Elite mains cables with something suitably more exotic and hopefully all in SILVER and carbon fibre!!

MCRU
28-02-2011, 23:03
wow, the lengths we go to for perfection! keep up the good work matey. pure silver after the isotek leads will sound too bright IMHO

Wakefield Turntables
01-03-2011, 19:48
David,

Have you any idea why things should sound bright? The V is now fully loaded with silver, the intrinsic wiring, cartridge tags are pure silver coated with teflon and terminated in Eichmann silver bullets. My system dosent sound as bright just a hell of a lot more detail, I think have burned in now and all I can say is that the upgrades were worth the £300!! My next upgrade will be the speaker cables. I dont know whether to make my own homebrew silver balanced speaker cables or terminate my old nordost SPM reference cable with balanced plugs?? Any idea?? :scratch:

MCRU
01-03-2011, 20:13
A lot of customers tell me silver can sound bright but in your system not so which is good, I have a lot of silver myself and a bit of copper too. This may work nicely for you, silver plated speaker cable from sonic link, I have a bit spare if you fancy a bash?

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/IMG_8120.jpg

MartinT
01-03-2011, 22:21
Silver doesn't sound bright for me either, but you have to have a well balanced system in the first place as it will expose any harshness there may be.

colinB
02-03-2011, 14:22
David,

Have you any idea why things should sound bright? The V is now fully loaded with silver, the intrinsic wiring, cartridge tags are pure silver coated with teflon and terminated in Eichmann silver bullets. My system dosent sound as bright just a hell of a lot more detail, I think have burned in now and all I can say is that the upgrades were worth the £300!! My next upgrade will be the speaker cables. I dont know whether to make my own homebrew silver balanced speaker cables or terminate my old nordost SPM reference cable with balanced plugs?? Any idea?? :scratch:

I would be surprised if you could better the quality of Atlas cable

kcc123
02-03-2011, 17:03
I have nearly every thing connected with pure silver, interconnects, speaker cables, power sockets and plugs and even IEC inlets as well. But my system does not sound bright.:lol:

Wakefield Turntables
02-03-2011, 20:29
I would be surprised if you could better the quality of Atlas cable


Colin, what make you say that?? The Atlas does indeed sound very nice but I keep hankering back to my SPM reference and I remember preferring this to everything else I've heard. I must admit that I havent heard many cables mainly QED silver anniversary, Atlas, Nordost, and some van den hul stuff and the SPM seems the best. The speaker cables and power cables will eventually get replaced but I'm going to be reviewing my system with the Adjust+ software just to see what it's doing!

colinB
02-03-2011, 21:07
Im only basing it on the fact that Atlas appear to go the extra mile on quality material and very good build. Im open to the idea there is differences with certain metals.

Reid Malenfant
02-03-2011, 21:13
I'm using a couple of pairs of Atlas Navigator balanced cables (yes i know they aren't speaker cables) in this system & i'm very happy with with the results :)

I have a question though, what's this about balanced speaker cables? :scratch: Things are only balanced if the amplifier happens to be, IE it's a bridged output in which case nothing is truly grounded.

Am i missing something? :cool:

Wakefield Turntables
03-03-2011, 17:39
I have a ATC SCA2 preamp with balanced speaker output into my fully active ATC speakers.

Reid Malenfant
03-03-2011, 20:22
Ah, gotcha, so what you have aren't exactly normal speaker cables carrying real current :) Like me you run an active system but yours is balanced from the pre to the xover & power amps in the speakers :cool:

Now with you 100%, i'd have called them interconnects though, not speaker cables as they are only line level. That is where the confusion set in :eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables
04-03-2011, 18:57
Ah, gotcha, so what you have aren't exactly normal speaker cables carrying real current :) Like me you run an active system but yours is balanced from the pre to the xover & power amps in the speakers :cool:

Now with you 100%, i'd have called them interconnects though, not speaker cables as they are only line level. That is where the confusion set in :eyebrows:

So basically my SPM reference cable would be $hit in my current system and I'm better of producing some interconnects!?! :scratch: Well, I think I;m gonna order some silver cabling from fleabay and see what I can produce. This is of course dependent upon price.

Reid Malenfant
04-03-2011, 19:06
The world is your oyster in this case :) You'll have shed loads of different balanced cable to choose from in reality. I use stuff from Maplin thats very good, but on ebay you'll find all sorts. You might take a look at some of the Van Damme balanced microphone cable which i believe Dave DSJR rates highly.

Just make sure you get decent plugs, Neutrik black type with gold plated pins i rate highly ;) But you can go mad if you like & pay £50+ for each plug, with you needing 4 you might want to give that idea a miss :D

Don't forget you'll need two female & two male plugs ;)

Wakefield Turntables
14-03-2011, 17:21
WARNING LONG POST ;) SORRY FOR TYPO'S

WHY BOTHER WRITING SUCH AN ARTICLE??
------------------------------------
Well I wrote this to help save money! Its very easy to spend £1000's on Hi-Fi, I've done it and regretted it. This little article is my diary of how
I upgraded my Technics 1210. As I went through this journey I learned not to be frustrated with my tinkering and found that a negative, fruitless
experience was actually a very positive thing in learning how my system worked, a lesson learned on what not to do again if you like! I atually began toenjoy the tweaking and I learned to enjoy intelligent tweaking, only spending money where money needs to be spent and using your head to find a solution to a problem. Tweaking is not for the impatient I also wrote this article as a diary for myself so I can look back and see where and how my system evolved and also as a resource to save time for if I ever need to re-house my system.


LET THE JOURNEY BEGIN.........................



The SME v Rewire and Service - COST £339
----------------------------------------
Got the V back today from Audio OrigamI and at £339 you may think that this was an expensive service but boy what a result! To complete the picture
I had teflon coated 99.99% pure silver (ok its not the best!!) intrinsic cabling replacing the old SME copper stuff. I replaced the SME copper cartridge
tags with Kondo pure silver tags.The cartridge tags were then directly soldered onto the tonearm wire, SME usually terminate the tonearm arm wiring into a circular piece of metal which sits under the headshell of the tonearm, cartridge tags then come away from this and then insert into the cartridge via a seperate set of cartridge tag wires.

By using my method we got rid of a whole level of cable termination I took my inspiration from the Michell technoarm which has a continous unbroken run of silver cabling from the cartridge tag to the RCA plugs. This is something that you can do with a V but I was advised against it due to the fact I have the TYR tonearm cable. Its one level of cabeling that could have been removed but had to stay.I had the tonearm dampened even further with having foam inserted into its shaft. The V's bearings were checked and found to be in perfect condition and the silicone dampening was also found to be normal. I had my Nordost TYR tonarm cable terminated with Eichmann silver bullets, and that concluded the tweaks. I have had several hours listening to it so far and can report that several things have happened. Soundstage has improved further, micro-detail pickup has been
increased, vocally artists appear more intimate, and sibilance has been decreased as well. The edge of notes appear to be better defined, this is something I could never quite picture but now I see what people mean by this statement. I'd even say that there was a little extra space between instruments. I can see further the mix of a record and there have been several occasions where I can hear artists talking to each other in-between tracks just before they start playing.


The Adjust+ Experience - COST £???
----------------------------------
Whilst setting up the V I tried various combinations with height of the tonearm, cartridge overhang, tracking force, anti-skate etc etc. I own the Audio Tehcnica AT-OC9ML/II which is a firecracker of a cartridge. It's lively, punchy, and very forensic but it sounds shit if its not properly aligned. This
actually highlighted how extremely important it is to get your cartridge lined up. I tried adjusting the cartridge manually and it sounded pretty good but
I then used the Adjust+ protractor to align the cartridge. I choose the baerwold protractor to align the V and the cartridge. $hit what a difference.
Janis Joplin sounded 6ft away in a recording booth whilst previously fish from Marillion and Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden sounded right at the back
of the mix. The soundstage prior to alignment was cohesive but post alignment it was super-tight, i'm talking superglue tight! The whole thing sounded wide, cohesive, I could see right into the Pearl recording. The timbral qualities of acoustic guitars was suddenly improved and the decay of notes suddenly lasted longer. One of the nice things about these little upgrades is that old records suddenly sound "new" simply because I'm hearing things that I hadn't previously heard. Some of these things are going to sound a little petty, but, for instance I heard fresh twangs to Steve Harris bass in Rime of The Ancient Mariner I heard some whispers that I had never ever heard in Script for a Jesters Tear an album that I must heard several thousand times (this is a conservative estimate). Where the hell had they been hiding all these years??


Fill Your Speaker Stands!! - COST £2
------------------------------------
My old Atacama speaker stands weighed in at about 7.5Kg or roughly 15lb's in old money. Being tight and not wanting to spend out on lead shot ot Atabites I decided to buy some Kiln dried sand from the local DIY superstore for £3.95, I needed some anyway for my drive as it has been snowing over the last few days. I duly filled both speaker stands to the top, let things settle, patted things down and then started to listen. I was rewarded with a deeper more tuneful bass. BEWARE this can produce too much speaker bloom which may enswamp smaller listening rooms. You can tune the effect of the bass driver by changing the amount of sand you put in your speaker stands. I only used 1/2 a bag, hence it cost me 2 quid!! Other materials can be used, I've heard of people using concrete or lead shot it's all dependent upon your wallet size. My speaker stands afterwards weight 15kg's or roughly 30lb's in weight which meant they could be easily moved.


Clean Connections - COST £3-4 approximately
-------------------------------------------
This is a procedure that i do at least once a year where I clean every connection that I can find. You can buy 100 cotton buds for £1 at your local
pound store if your lucky to have one locally whilst I use surgical spirit as my agent of choice for cleaning RCA plugs, speaker plug terminals etc.
More expensive solutions can be used but i dont think there is much, sonically, difference bewteen cheap and cheerful and stupidly expensive.
This job is a real pain in the posterior but when you see the dirt and grime after you've finished you'll realise that it was worth the effort.
I've noticed a clearer soundstage after this has been done. This may be purely psychological but I remember that I did a similar procedure with my old
Quad gear and the effects were similar to an upgrade of speaker cable. Not the most stunning of differences but one where you know your time hasn't
been wasted.




*********************
**THE FREE UPGRADES**
*********************


Learn Whats Normal to Diagnose Abnormal - COST ** NOTHING **
------------------------------------------------------------
I learned this from a consultant Radiologist whilst I was learning to read X-rays and I think that never a truer word was spoken. Every audiophile looks
for "that" sound which to them is there idea of Nirvana. This "sound" is going to be different from one audiophile to the next. I have spent considerable
time just listening to my system and learning how it sounds. This is especially important when evaluating upgrades. My advice is learn your system insideout. This way you will know if an item has made a positive or negative impact on your system. I would also recommend getting a few "reference" records which show various aspects of how your system performs.

I have a few favourites over many genres of music. I like to use track 1 on side b of Andrew Lloyd Webbers Variations. This track can produce a massive wash of sonics with synth's, bass, brass, electric guitar thrown at you all at once. I use this track to see how far apart the instruments are, I can also judge how the deck handles multiple instruments and study things like the decay of notes, time signatures etc. If you carry on to track 2 on side 2 you'll get some great Cello playing from Julian LLoyd Webber this is a record which has everything, and it's usually a junk shop favourite, I've picked up two copies for 99p!! The second record i like to use is an old copy of Bach's Tocatto and Fugue in B Minor simply to see how far down the bass responds, again another junk shop find for 20p, I'm sure there are records which could go lower in the bass department but it suffices for my needs. A third record I use is Slayer's Reign in Blood, this is great for testing out Bass drum and screaming vocals. If I want something smooth I have some great Miles Davis, this list goes on. I have also found that using Mono records and extremely knackered records very useful. I use the Mono records to test the width of the soundstage whilst I use knackered records to see if my system likes or dislikes poor or bad recordings.


I have found I can describe my system which is something I couldn't do prior to embarking on these tweaks. It's very very clinical, it hates
crap recorded music, it hates knackered records, it does not suffer fools glady. It can paint an extremely immersive picture of music, it does not
struggle with complicated time signtaures of "busy" pieces of music. Bass is very deep and a little bloomy (something which I'm working on), its taught,
lean and in places it'll kick your arse. The soundstage can be centrally, narrow and pinpointed straight in-between my speakers or it can be wide,
this is dependent upon the recording. I have found space between instruments and I could if I wished just concentrate on a single instrument whilst blanking out others. I can see deeper into a record and hear things that would be previouly hidden away in the record grooves. Simbilance has been reduced but sometimes still creeps in. Accoustic / Heavy metal / thrash / prog / 80's / synth / jazz all sound **GREAT** as for other genre's I have no idea simply because I dont have any great volume of these Genre's. I do have a couple of classical album's, Nigel Kennedy's 4 seasons is another reference record I use and it sounds stunning. Notes decay for longer, timbral qualities of instruments can be better discerned, vocalists can sound very intimate whilst previously they could sound at the back of a mix or simply "muted". My system does have some thing which drive me mad. I can sometimes hear a rumble whilst the records are playing, simbilance is another problem, surface noise is another. The list could go on..............


Sorbothane - COST ** NOTHING **
-------------------------------
Many readers of AOS will have probably have heard about my exploits with Sorbothane. I work with the stuff so i get it for free and I experiment
with off-cuts. You can buy Sorbothane cheaply enough if you want to experiment. I used to have my 1210 sitting on four 6mm circular
pieces of Sorbothane, note the word "USED". My logic was simple in that this should de-couple the deck even further from my Quadraspire rack and provide further dampening and level the deck out. It actually started to rob the 1210's punch and clinical, scalpal like incision qualities. This tweak is
probably good is you dont like things quite so edgy or dont like a super clinical approach to your system. I did however use sorbothane under my
phonostage and pre-amp, and thigs DID improve. So my advice is dont dampen down the 1210 with Sorbothane let the 1210's feet terminate onto your equipment rack and let it do the dampening. I'm still not quite sure "how" the sound improved with Sorbothane under the other components of my system but I just preferred the sound that I heard so now I leave the sorbothane under these components as part of my system.


Rack Configuration - COST ** NOTHING **
---------------------------------------
This can have a large impact in that feedback can occur in the form of a hum which can be heard over your speakers. This usually happens when you
havent properly grounded your 1210 or when a phonostage or external powerpack are too close to the 1210. I also own a Trichord Diablo
phonostage, its terrible for feedback hum and has to be as widely seperated as possible from its external powerpack. This feedback will be fed into your
system and I've found that this increases the noise floor. This can be recognised as a hiss in bewteen tracks or in bewteen instruments during a solo for example. Your 1210 should be silent when switched on with no "humming" in the background if you can hear a hum there is an issue somewhere. I keep my TimeStep HE powerpack on the very lowest rack of my Quadraspire rack whilst the 1210 sits at the top, my Pre-amp lives of the
2nd rack and the phonostage lives on the 3rd rack. I've tried to keep the phonostage away from the 1210 but my Valhalla interconects are only 0.5m long, this is mainly due to the fact they were stupidly expensive but also the runs of cable should be kept as short as possible. My CD player a Marantz CD63SE sits on the 3rd rack and finally my Isotek system sits on the very bottom rack. My system is silent when switched on. All components which are not being used are switched off this is mainly my CD player. You may find that altering your rack position has no effect on your system at all but until you try you'll never know. As mentioned my main benefit was a super quite noise floor.



Seat Adjustment - COST ** NOTHING **
------------------------------------
Yep this is going to sound silly but I pulled the chair in by about an additional 12 inches and suddenly things started to sound even better! Again this
is dependent upon experimenting. There are actually web-resources out there which help you save time and frustration, the Cardas cable site has lots and lots of papers on how to adjust your seat. Make sure that your seat height is equal to tweeter height and that your not too far inclined when your sitting as this will impact on ability to percieve stereo imaging if you use one the Cardas methods for seat placement.


Lowering the height of the tweeter - COST ** NOTHING **
-------------------------------------------------------
I'd heard about this on various forums and decided if there was any merit in this tweak. I measured the height of my ATC 50ASL's tweeter from the
ground and found it to be 104cm, these sit on atacama stands which are then decoupled from by 4 silicone pods which the speaker sits on. My ear-to-ground height is exactly 100cm. My first reaction was that this was not a bad match, 4cm is not that great a distance and then my 2nd thought was how do I make up the difference. The answer was simples!! I removed the silicone decoupler which saved me 10mm and cut 8 sections of 17mm MDF which I double up and then placed under my chair and hey presto a difference of 4 mm between my ears and the tweeter. I dont think my ears are good enough to be able to discern 4mm diferences.
The MDF was just a spare piece I found in the garage, the other half was pleased as the garage looked slightly tidier 8-)). I was worried about the effects of decoupling the speakers from the speaker stands but I could hear no discernable differences betwen having the speakers on the decoupling pads and with them just sitting directly onto the speaker stand. I also got the impression that the music was playing down to me as if I was having to "focus up" when listening to any record i spun. Now it seems as if I'm on a level par with the band



Equipment Placement
-------------------
Previously I had one Quadraspire equipment rack which held all my gear. This lived directly in the middle of my speakers, for quite some time I presumed that
this was having a negative effect of the soundstage. I decided to split the Quadrapsire in two, so now I have two racks which now live under the height of my forward firing speaker port and bass driver unit in my ATC speakers. Instantly I noticed that the sound stage appeared to open out and that the band were playing directly at me rather than it sounding as if someone was standing in front of me at a concert. The only problem with my current equipment placement is that its directly in front of a radiator which when switched on actually make things sound better. This may sound like bollocks but I think that I have heard this reported before, I welcome your comments on this! The only problem with the equipment being near the radiator is static and dust 8-(



Clean Your Room - COST NOTHING
------------------------------
Clean your equipment and man cave at least once a week to stop excessive dust which will eventually get transferred onto your vinal and also your
cartridge tip. This should help limit surface noise on your vinyl.





***********************************
**AREAS THAT NEED TO BE WORKED ON**
***********************************

Surface Noise

Simbilance

Rumble Noise

Slight Bass bloom

In-toe Angle of Speakers



**********************
** FURTHER UPGRADES **
**********************

Room treatment

Vibration control - silicone bonding of the internal chasis

Paul Hynes SR5 power supply

Silver speaker cables

Silver power cables

Cartridge

Record cleaning Machine

MCRU
14-03-2011, 20:25
Nice post matey, I am now selling Moth RCM's so may be able to help with the last bit, BTW any chance of some soborthane please? Fancy a dabble myself, can we swap for some mains bits and bobs?

Wakefield Turntables
22-04-2011, 09:18
I've made some very simple balanced silver interconnects bewteen my ATC amp and speakers. They cost the sum total of about £20, and were produced from a couple of old microphone cable and some teflon coated silver (9999) purity of fleabay for about £3 a foot. The cables are completely bare and have no protection of any substance apart from the teflon coating!! Well what can I say!! I'm stunned. The cables trumped a pair of £85 atlas Quadstar. I must admit that I think there isn't that much in it but I listened last night and could definitely hear more dynamic and micro detail from my current set up. This was definitely worth an investment in time and money. I'm going to now order some OHNO 99999 purity silver, and start experimenting even further with the interconnects and power cables!!!!! So I think I've learned 2 thing from last night.

1. A fully active ATC pre-amp and speaker system DOES sound better with silver even though ATC themselves recommend nothing more expensive than budget banjo copper.

2. A definitely get more microdetail and dynamics now that I've swithced the 1210 to a being completely silver wired system rather than a completely Cu system.

The experiment continues................. :mad:

DSJR
22-04-2011, 11:07
One is supposed to sit on axis with the MID DOME, not the bloody tweeter....

All this and you still use an SCA2? That could be the log-jam if mine was anything to go by, as the entire time I had it (two years from memory), it sounded like a Naim preamp in dire need of a HighCap supply. When you've a few hundred spare, try a vintage Levinson ML28, which is balanced from input to output and sounded rather wonderful I remember at the time.

By the way, the Belden tinned-copper "banjo-wires" ATC recommend are actually quite good, if a little "safe" and treble monotonic sounding. Anything which sounds dramatically different to these should be viewed with extreme caution IMO. You have lifted the XLR pin 1 connection at the speaker end, haven't you, as this sits on the sonics as well if pin 1 is connected at both ends, despite ATC fitting a 47 Ohm resistor to the signal-earth connection in the speakers' amp packs to prevent ground/hum loops.

I also found that copious use of cable ferrites on the mains leads (or possibly use of Mark Grant mains leads today) helped bass reproduction. This was repeatable and three of these won't cost much more than a tenner.

By the way, you have hundreds of feet of COPPER in your voice coils and using proper balanced connections should dramatically minimise the need for exotic wire materials, especially as all the impedances are properly matched, unlike most single-ended phono connections around and about.

Lecture/rant over...

Wakefield Turntables
23-04-2011, 19:04
Thanks for the advice. Did you use your SCA2 with ATC ASL50's? What other pre-amps would your recommend, KRELL maybe?

Secondly Im not sure what you mean by " You have lifted the XLR pin 1 connection at the speaker end", can you expand a bit on this as this is something which I may need to do.

I did contemplate ferrites and only learned about them recently!! You mentioned using them on the speakers power leads, do think these would also help on the pre-amp power cables or interconnects from pre-amp to speakers?? Does it make any difference that I'm filtering this lot through an ISOTEK titan mains filtration system??

So many questions, hope you can answer one or two, thanks in advance. :eek:

DSJR
24-04-2011, 11:13
Sorry if my prior post sounded a bit patronising - quick typing fingers (both of them :)) and a need to impart experiences, wanted or not, dictated the result...

I used active 100's for a good few years and used them both with the AVI S2000 preamp in both versions (great high-current, low output impedance single ended output stage designed from the off to drive long signal leads). I then switched to the SCA2 and found it a very "gentlemanly" sound in comparison. The old friend who bought the speakers and preamp from me still uses them daily and recently had the preamp looked at because the phono stage started acting up - connections rather than failure I understand.

These days, there are specialised pro line stages able to drive a balanced set of cables to speakers and Krell/ARC is the LAST place on earth I'd look (overpriced and over-finished male jewellery for the well-off IMO). Something like these -

http://www.tcelectronic.com/bmc-2.asp

http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/spl-volume2-high-end-stereo-volume-controller--52866

I believe there are other units with extra inputs should you need them.

- are really all you need and are properly priced as knowledgeable pros don't buy "foo" products - the ATC SCA2 and matching power amp were for the audiophile fraternity and not the pro market... Electronic components are very cheap (several-a-penny in some cases) and really don't need to cost the earth. Simple line circuits don't seem to need ott power supplies either :)

As for non-balanced connection to the ATC's, in a domestic environment with often less than 10m each interconnect, a good line buffer is all you'd need. I didn't find the Croft over happy in this mode, although it worked ok at the time and the main reason I mentioned the ML28 (if you can find one) is that when Glenn became absorbed into Eminent Audio and was unreachable for a few years, HiFi Dave looked at Levinson and found the 28 preamp (fully balanced circuit from in to out with carefully matched components) an excellent thing to use..

Cable ferrites? Unnecessary on balanced interconnects (the ATC circuits will self-limit rf in any case) but the mains leads benefitted I remember...

EDIT - The ATC preamp is earthed to the mains and I think the pin 1 on the XLR's is directly connected to the earthing (check the circuit diagram if provided). The speaker amp-packs also connect to earth via their mains leads and ATC used to put a resistor between pin 1 of the XLR (earth/screen) and ground to prevent hum loops. I found that disconnecting the earth pin1 at the speaker end, but leaving it connected at the preamp (and shorted to the return on a phono equipped preamp like the AVI I had) seemed to improve the dynamics a little. As long as the removed wire isn't cut off, it's easily soldered back.

Wakefield Turntables
09-10-2011, 21:48
It's been some time since i updated this thread but Ithought i'd just fetch things upto date. So far i think the only three things that I could do to update my 1210 any further are :-

1. Adding the SR7XL power supply, which will hopefully be on order this Monday
2. Bonding the internal chasis and plinth together
3. Adding some regulators that haven't been released yet :eyebrows:

I've had the current setup and mods running for about 6 months. I intend to do 2 of the mods before the end of the year. I'll post an update of the improvements to the sonics once I have them installed.

MartinT
09-10-2011, 21:54
I'll be performing the multi-regulator internal mod, with feed from SR5, as soon as I receive the bits from Paul Hynes, so we'll be able to compare notes.

Wakefield Turntables
10-10-2011, 14:20
I'll be performing the multi-regulator internal mod, with feed from SR5, as soon as I receive the bits from Paul Hynes, so we'll be able to compare notes.

:eek::eek: Cant wait !! :eek::eek:

Wakefield Turntables
17-04-2012, 18:58
Been a while since I update this. But over the next two weeks the 1210 will have the following upgrades.

1. Paul Hynes SR27XL installed
2. New tone arm cable from Yannis

And then in the next six weeks

1. Paul Hynes internal regulator mods.

But here is a photo of what I call the uniplinth. I've bonded the sub-chasis and plinth together and stiffened up the original plinth by eliminating all unecessary holes in the plinth. I've yet to bond the MN base plate in but here's a quick pix of my resprayed plinth.

Tarzan
17-04-2012, 19:46
:popcorn:

Wakefield Turntables
18-04-2012, 18:59
Latest update, the new modified plinth has been installed along with the V and mike new tonearm armboard. The rest of the 1210 is spread out in all its glory over the floor :( The baseplate and PCB should be fitted tonight if time permits.

MartinT
18-04-2012, 21:08
The rest of the 1210 is spread out in all its glory over the floor :(

I remember that scenario!

JazzBones
19-04-2012, 10:23
Latest update, the new modified plinth has been installed along with the V and mike new tonearm armboard. The rest of the 1210 is spread out in all its glory over the floor :( The baseplate and PCB should be fitted tonight if time permits.

Andrew, what did you fill the holes with on your 1210 plinth... car body mastic? Prior to sanding and spraying? Did you do the job yourself?

I'm thinking of travelling along the aforementioned route with the possible exception of replacing the on/off switch with a quality rocker switch.

Bet you'll be glad when you don't have to pull the Techy apart anymore :), so much easier working on a LP12 plus Linn jig :eyebrows: ?

Ron

Mike_New
19-04-2012, 10:59
Hi Ron,
I cannot remember what PS you have but if it is KAB or one of the remote switching types. Then you need not worry to change the switch, as the DC switching current/voltage of these units is very low and would not be affected by using a new higher current toggle switch.

MaksK
20-04-2012, 10:11
Latest update, the new modified plinth has been installed along with the V and mike new tonearm armboard. The rest of the 1210 is spread out in all its glory over the floor :( The baseplate and PCB should be fitted tonight if time permits.

Wow, nice modding there. I would like to see final shot(s) when all is put together and its cleaned/polished. Bring it on..

Tho the copper armboard is visual show stopper for me here but I bet it has great sound characteristics. :rolleyes:

JazzBones
20-04-2012, 14:54
Hi Ron,
I cannot remember what PS you have but if it is KAB or one of the remote switching types. Then you need not worry to change the switch, as the DC switching current/voltage of these units is very low and would not be affected by using a new higher current toggle switch.

Hi Mike, a late acknowledgement of your post yesterday, thanks for the info.
I currently use a TS HE psu which does not have an on/off switch hence is powered up 24/7 so I switch my 1210 off at the deck's on/off switch, however, at the back of my mind I am giving alot of thought and consideration to a worthwhile upgrade based on perceived performance by me . High on the consideration list is of course the mighty Paul Hynes, but someone on here is doing a comparison of PSUs for the Techo so I'm being patient and waiting for that to come out. As you know :) the mechanics of my deck are well sorted and implemented, so apart from ergonomics/cosmetics, the PSU is the only thing left to do if something really comes along that I consider a worthwhile step up.

Ron

Wakefield Turntables
20-04-2012, 18:47
Andrew, what did you fill the holes with on your 1210 plinth... car body mastic? Prior to sanding and spraying? Did you do the job yourself?

I'm thinking of travelling along the aforementioned route with the possible exception of replacing the on/off switch with a quality rocker switch.

Bet you'll be glad when you don't have to pull the Techy apart anymore :), so much easier working on a LP12 plus Linn jig :eyebrows: ?

Ron

Ron,

Sorry for taking a while to answer your questions.

1. I filled the holes in with aluminium mesh and car body mastic. I sanded them down with super coarse sand paper and then finer grades until a nice even key was gained.

2. I did the paint job myself and its not perfect, but its good enough for me as I'm not selling it :D The paint was a special non-metallic matt black paint.

3. They "rocker" switch sounds good. It may also be beneficial to get rid of the LEDS's in the 33/45 rpm switches, less components in the 1210's PCB. In more eyes less is more!

Hope this helps.

JazzBones
20-04-2012, 21:34
Ron,

Sorry for taking a while to answer your questions.

1. I filled the holes in with aluminium mesh and car body mastic. I sanded them down with super coarse sand paper and then finer grades until a nice even key was gained.

2. I did the paint job myself and its not perfect, but its good enough for me as I'm not selling it :D The paint was a special non-metallic matt black paint.

3. They "rocker" switch sounds good. It may also be beneficial to get rid of the LEDS's in the 33/45 rpm switches, less components in the 1210's PCB. In more eyes less is more!

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info Andrew, v/helpful. I would like to get someone from Rolls Royce paint shop :eyebrows: to do a piano black gloss jobby, but I feel this would be bloody expensive and I may have a fruitless search, so the end game might be a DIY job!

I've seen some lovely rocker switches on decks before and I can't say I'm all that happy with the Techo's drum shaped switch?

Looking forward to seeing your finished product and of course your views on the upgrade to PH PSU over the TS HE psu which I still use and you have been using.

Cheers
Ron :)

Wakefield Turntables
20-04-2012, 22:05
Looking forward to seeing your finished product and of course your views on the upgrade to PH PSU over the TS HE psu which I still use and you have been using.

Cheers
Ron :)

Not for much longer! Paul says it might be shipped this monday coming :D

Wakefield Turntables
21-04-2012, 15:16
Right, Mike New baseplate now fixed into place. I have used the two tube version of araldite (which stinks when you use it!), and its stuck pretty firm in place. i had a scare last night when the platter didnt smooth rotate around the mike new bearing spindle, this has now been sorted. I would recommend this method to anyone seriously thining about upgrading the 1210 as the structural integrity of the plinths and subplinth arn't compromised, meaning things are more rigid and less prone to rattle;) The 1210 is now in a state of hiatus as the new PSU and internal regs havent arrived yet :( So i'm hoping to have the new PSU fitted nxt week and the regs sometime next month :eek:


Andy

Marco
21-04-2012, 17:56
Not for much longer! Paul says it might be shipped this monday coming :D

Nice one, Andy. You'll be in for a treat!! ;)

Marco.

MartinT
22-04-2012, 20:46
My SR7EHD-27 should arrive soon, too :)

Wakefield Turntables
23-04-2012, 12:27
i've been waiting months for mine so I cant wait!

Wakefield Turntables
27-04-2012, 19:34
some good news, mainly my SR7EHD-21XL PSU from Paul is finished and now hopefully will be here next week and also Yannis has finished my tonearm cable and should also be with me next week or two :gig:

Marco
27-04-2012, 19:57
Exciting stuff, dude. I promise you'll be in for some serious fun! Let me know what you think of the tonearm cable, as I suspect that you'll get your 'super-duper' one before I'll get mine :cool:

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
30-04-2012, 15:41
Exciting stuff, dude. I promise you'll be in for some serious fun! Let me know what you think of the tonearm cable, as I suspect that you'll get your 'super-duper' one before I'll get mine :cool:

Marco.

Tomorrow or Wednesday and the PSU arrives and then I can re-enter the land of vinyl again!

JazzBones
30-04-2012, 17:22
Tomorrow or Wednesday and the PSU arrives and then I can re-enter the land of vinyl again!

Hell without it, isn't it? ;)

Wakefield Turntables
30-04-2012, 18:07
YES:(

MartinT
30-04-2012, 18:14
I guess I'm in the more comfortable position of my 1210 sounding fab with the SR5, so I can wait for my SR7 to arrive :)

Reid Malenfant
30-04-2012, 18:23
I guess I'm in the more comfortable position of my 1210 sounding fab with the SR5, so I can wait for my SR7 to arrive :)
:eyebrows: Looks like we are all keeping Paul busy one way or another :)

MartinT
30-04-2012, 18:47
I'm glad. Paul is one of the world's true gents.

Wakefield Turntables
30-04-2012, 18:48
I'd agree with that hes making some internal regs for later on in May :eyebrows:

Reid Malenfant
30-04-2012, 18:50
I'm glad. Paul is one of the world's true gents.
Amen to that - I couldn't agree more! I don't think I could express how greatful I am for his time, experience & products :)

Marco
01-05-2012, 17:07
I guess I'm in the more comfortable position of my 1210 sounding fab with the SR5, so I can wait for my SR7 to arrive :)

You're in for a major treat - trust me! ;)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
01-05-2012, 19:02
Well the SR7XL arrived today and all I can say is thats its bloody massive. It quite literally looks immense and extremely moody, you wouldn't want to pick a fight with it! I'll be linking it up tomorrow after a little tweak. I have spoken to Paul and the internal regs may be here quicker than I expected :eek:. I'll report tomorrow after I've had a couple of hours with it hooked up. Thanks very very much Paul :cool:

Marco
01-05-2012, 19:09
Indeed - rather a chunky monkey, is it not? The sonic improvement, even without the reg mods installed yet, should be obvious! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
01-05-2012, 19:18
The really maddening thing is that I'm not really gonna get any time to fit the thing until Friday :( I'm solid at work, so I've just got the thing switched on to slowly burn it in, it should have at least 20 hours burn in when I'm ready to install it. I honestly dont think there is that much more apart from the internal regs (for the time being) that I can do to the 1210 apart from some minor tweeks that I have planned and a BIG project that i'm gonna keep quite about :eyebrows: I'll be posting details on some minor tweeks soon!

RobbieGong
01-05-2012, 20:22
Looking forward to your report back on the minor tweeks cause some of the major stuf you guys undertake is not for the fainthearted :lol:
Without any vinyl replay myself at the mo :( as I've just sold my base model Timestep for a meatier external psu. I've taken a punt on what Sean from Custom Cables has been thinking about offering up as a DC-3 after hearing good things about his DC-1 and DC-2 external psu's for the Techie. It is in effect an upgrade of this one his DC-2 - http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/-dc2-dc-power-supply
Mine will include: 'DC3' PSU - using a 280x230x80mm black case, 500VA transformer, Schottky diode rectification, 4x10,000uF Nichicon KG caps, DC2 regulation board (fully upgraded as far as possible with regards to components used). With locking ring output and a 1.0m shielded and braid-sheathed output cable plus extra locking ring for 1210 chassis b1.5m PowerBlack IEC mains cable
Wont pretend I understand all the spec details lol (someone will and may offer initial comment) but I told him I wanted something pretty good and at a competitive price with good cables etc. £418 including delivery.
Have placed deposit, balance to follow in coming weeks. Will definately report back on findings but I'm pretty excited already :)

Reid Malenfant
01-05-2012, 20:25
Sounds like a good solid base for a PSU Robert, but what is the regulator?

Wakefield Turntables
02-05-2012, 20:21
DCSXL pure-silver DC lead, fitted with Jaeger (low-impedance) connector now fitted. Remove a couple of resistors, and a cap, and a few other bits of pieces on the PCB. Its all hooked up, just need to check the voltage of the SR7 (where's that multimeter). Will also be making a special stand for the new PSU over the weekend!

RobbieGong
02-05-2012, 20:36
Sounds like a good solid base for a PSU Robert, but what is the regulator?

Hi Mark, In addition to previously advised in post #124 above re: regulator. I can quote from one of the emails I've recieved as follows:
The basic design is something called a 'Tracking Pre-Regulator', which uses two separate regulators working together (not just in series) to give much better performance than single-reg designs. The TPR design is also used by Les W of Avondale Audio and Teddy Pardo, two other very highly-regarded audio engineers who make their own PSU DIY modules, although the three designs all vary quite a bit in the implementation the basic principles are the same.

The actual part number of the regulators I use is LM1085 - a higher-current version of the standard 1086, which itself is a modern and superior replacement to the common 317 (which is still used by many manufacturers including Naim Audio). The 317 architecture allows for much better performance than the fixed regualator types like the 7805/7812 series of regs - even these low-quality parts are used by many manufacturers on low to mid-end equipment.

I've used a modified version of my DC2 PCB with some better-than-standard capacitors and regulators added, along with the much bigger transformer and capacitor array it'll surpass the standard DC2 by a good margin.

As I say Mark the spec stuf doesn't mean a lot to me but I'm sure it will have more meaning to you and others. I can also add that the guy (Sean) is an absolute pleasure to deal with to say the least and without even hearing the psu he's doing for me (which I'm sure will sound great going by testimonials re: even his entry level psu), I'm truly glad I took a punt. Finally apologies Andrew if I've highjacked the thread - totally not intended :)

Reid Malenfant
02-05-2012, 20:52
Tracking regulators generally refer to one in the positive rail & a second one in a negative rail below ground (as an example +/- 15V & ground) where one is slaved to the other & delivers the opposite of the first one.

The 317 (337 is the negative rail version) is definately better than just about any fixed voltage regulator I can think of ;) Performance can be improved with decent circuit design.

I don't know the regulators you are refering to, obviously newer types. You can't beat discrete regulators though, but they do cost some :rolleyes:

Sounds half decent & I hope it does to :D

Likewise, apologies to Andrew for the brief side step :)

RobbieGong
02-05-2012, 20:59
Tracking regulators generally refer to one in the positive rail & a second one in a negative rail below ground (as an example +/- 15V & ground) where one is slaved to the other & delivers the opposite of the first one.

The 317 (337 is the negative rail version) is definately better than just about any fixed voltage regulator I can think of ;) Performance can be improved with decent circuit design.

I don't know the regulators you are refering to, obviously newer types. You can't beat discrete regulators though, but they do cost some :rolleyes:

Sounds half decent & I hope it does to :D

Likewise, apologies to Andrew for the brief side step :)

Thanks for the knowledge Mark, I feel quietly confident that this is gonna sound lovely after my base Timestep - It sounds like quality at £400. - Right ! I'm moving over now til i've paid the balance and its made up and arrived :).

Wakefield Turntables
02-05-2012, 21:23
Just to get back on track lads I thought I'd mail a quick pic of the new PSU for people who have never seen Paul's work before. As you can see its huge!

MartinT
02-05-2012, 21:25
Yep - I saw Marco's SR7 and immediately asked Paul to delete the front heatsink on mine. It doesn't need it for the Technics application and will reduce the PSU's bulk and weight somewhat.

Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2012, 06:42
Yep - I saw Marco's SR7 and immediately asked Paul to delete the front heatsink on mine. It doesn't need it for the Technics application and will reduce the PSU's bulk and weight somewhat.

Your probably correct but it sure does look mean! :eek:

Marco
03-05-2012, 09:17
Indeed... TBH, I never gave the heat-sink a moment's thought.

One thing though, Andrew, you need to get the SR7 up off of the floor and onto some sort of support, which offers isolation, or your T/T won't sound as good as it should.

No equipment, in a high-end hi-fi system, should ever be sat on the floor!

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2012, 17:25
Marco,

Its sitting there because I have to check its voltage, Paul cant remember if it was 21V or 27V when he set it up so I'm gonna have to open it up and use a multimeter to check the voltage ;) I'm pretty good with the old carpentry skills and I have a few bits of timber & MDF in the garage so watch this space for a home-made stand specially made for the SR7 :eek:

Andy

Marco
03-05-2012, 17:33
Nice one, Andy. Just trying to keep you right! ;)

Marco.

MartinT
03-05-2012, 18:06
Andy - you don't need to open it up unless the voltage is incorrect. Just put your multimeter probes into the socket at the back.

Wakefield Turntables
03-05-2012, 19:11
Andy - you don't need to open it up unless the voltage is incorrect. Just put your multimeter probes into the socket at the back.


Just had a really nice detailed PM from Paul telling how to do this! I'll update you all tomorrow. :cool:

Wakefield Turntables
04-05-2012, 17:47
Right, the SR7XL PSU is now installed and all I can say is that after 5 minutes I noticed the following things :-

1. Lower surface noise, the old timestep PSU used to pick up every single crackle on vinyl known to man which I thought was actually a weakness of my old audiotechnica cartridge.

2. Bass has a greater impact.

3. Intrsuments have better seperation. I have a torture track on the latest dream theatre album, the 1st track on side 2 which has an incredible section where several million notes are fired at you at once. The old timestep PSU whilst it made a decent ham of the track failed to properly seperate everything, the SR7 seemed to seperate things very easily indeed. It was the first time the the track didnt seem congested. That's impressive.

Just a few musings. I'm off to have a decent listen and see what I can come up with!

RobbieGong
04-05-2012, 17:58
Hi Andrew, Which of your carts are you listening with, is it the Cadenza Black ?

Wakefield Turntables
04-05-2012, 18:03
Nope its the Audio technica (as in my sig). I thought I'd mount it and see how it sounded and to be truthful its gone up in my estimation but I think its the PSU rather then the cart :D

JazzBones
04-05-2012, 18:22
Interesting one, Andy, about your old TS HE picking up every pop and crackle. As you know I use a TS HE and don't have this problem possibly because I go through a strict cleaning and degausing routine but it does leave me minutely feeling a little more is required (does that feeling every end?), by the way using an AT09IIml cartridge. I look forward to your further comments as I'm thinking along the same lines as MartinT... 'no heat sink'... I'm assuming of course that there is an on/off button to activate when not using the PH unit? My TS HE is left on 24/7 as are my amps.

You'll probably find that performance will improve as your new PSU beds in with continuous play.

Pleased for you mate :).

Ron

MartinT
04-05-2012, 19:09
The SR5 has an on/off rocker switch and I'm fairly sure I've seen the same switch on the SR7. I checked with Paul and he confirmed that the current draw of the Technics does not generate sufficient heat to warrant the giant heatsink in the SR7.

DSJR
04-05-2012, 19:44
Interesting one, Andy, My TS HE is left on 24/7 as are my amps.

Pleased for you mate :).

Ron

Your better half would be even more pleased with you if you turned everything off when not in use. I bet you'd save a fortune each quarter ;)

Wakefield Turntables
04-05-2012, 19:52
Interesting one, Andy, about your old TS HE picking up every pop and crackle. As you know I use a TS HE and don't have this problem possibly because I go through a strict cleaning and degausing routine but it does leave me minutely feeling a little more is required (does that feeling every end?), by the way using an AT09IIml cartridge. I look forward to your further comments as I'm thinking along the same lines as MartinT... 'no heat sink'... I'm assuming of course that there is an on/off button to activate when not using the PH unit? My TS HE is left on 24/7 as are my amps.

You'll probably find that performance will improve as your new PSU beds in with continuous play.

Pleased for you mate :).

Ron


Ron,

Thanks for the great comments! Paul has confirmed that most of the changes occur within the 1st month. The TS HE was an ok little PSU but I wanted more and the SR7 within 2 hours of usage has confirmed there is more. I always switch my amps and PSU off after every listening session, I'm not a subscriber to the leave everything on all the time brigade (no disrespect Ron ;)). The heatsink just came with the PSU, so its stopping on. I dont think it's going to have an impact on the sonics, and yes the SR7 has a rocker switch on its front so you can switch off when you like.



The SR5 has an on/off rocker switch and I'm fairly sure I've seen the same switch on the SR7. I checked with Paul and he confirmed that the current draw of the Technics does not generate sufficient heat to warrant the giant heatsink in the SR7.

Internal regs coming in next few weeks Martin, oh $hit, more open heart surgery for the techie!


Your better half would be even more pleased with you if you turned everything off when not in use. I bet you'd save a fortune each quarter ;)

Yes and it would stop you giving the national grid a run for its money! :D

MartinT
04-05-2012, 20:30
Internal regs coming in next few weeks Martin, oh $hit, more open heart surgery for the techie!

Are you doing them yourself, Andrew? Hopefully my photos might help. May your hand be steady and your eye good :)

JazzBones
04-05-2012, 21:07
Your better half would be even more pleased with you if you turned everything off when not in use. I bet you'd save a fortune each quarter ;)

Hush, hush Dave, she thinks I'm tappin' into next door's lekky :eyebrows:

Martin, thanks for the info re: rocker switch; had a feeling there would be one.
As a matter of interest, does the PH psu run warm to hot after awhile of playing? At the Whittlebury show, last year, the MCFUS Tekky supply ran hot bottle warm. I assume the casing will be different for Paul's and does the lack of a heat sink mean it will cost a little less?

Cheers both

Ron

MartinT
04-05-2012, 22:52
The SR5 barely ever gets warm to the touch so it has plenty of headroom - better for good regulation.

Wakefield Turntables
04-05-2012, 22:52
Are you doing them yourself, Andrew? Hopefully my photos might help. May your hand be steady and your eye good :)

Yeah, doing them myself, although I think paul might be supplying some instructions or some pics, you'll certainly be the 1st port of call if I fcuk things up.

Marco
04-05-2012, 23:11
If Martin's not around for any reason, then you've also got Anthony TD, who fitted the reg boards on my T/T. He would also gladly help :)

I think what your observations have shown so far is how much of a toy the Timestep effort is, in comparison... Ron, you need to up the ante, mate, and get a proper man-sized PSU! :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

JazzBones
05-05-2012, 10:02
If Martin's not around for any reason, then you've also got Anthony TD, who fitted the reg boards on my T/T. He would also gladly help :)

I think what your observations have shown so far is how much of a toy the Timestep effort is, in comparison... Ron, you need to up the ante, mate, and get a proper man-sized PSU! :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

Marco, as soon as I recover from your enthusiastic endorsement of VEET and pubic hair re-appears on me underdungga rattlers I shall man up and go for the SR7 minus heat sink. I can manager fitting this on my own, using the missus's reknown soldering skills but the regulators will have to come later when I can get help.

Off now with me anglepoise lamp and high power magnifying glass in search of growth as aforementioned :scratch::doh::)

Ron

DSJR
05-05-2012, 13:08
:rotfl:

I have the opposite - too much lower down and nothing on top :(

Wakefield Turntables
05-05-2012, 15:04
The development of the 1210 continues a pace. my new tonearm cable has just arrived from Greece, this is an all solid silver affair with Furutech DIN and eichmann silver bullets and a few other bits and pieces. I now have a completely silver setup. Everything is silver, tonearm wire, interconnects, powerleads!! So, along with the SR7XL I have a lot of listening to do to discern the differences. As always will keep you updated.

PS Richard Blackmoore's guitar on highway star has never sounded better on the Made in Japan album. :eek:

Marco
05-05-2012, 16:31
:rotfl:

I have the opposite - too much lower down and nothing on top :(

Hung like a donkey, eh?

Marco.

DSJR
05-05-2012, 17:32
More Bungalow Bill methinks :lol:

Wakefield Turntables
05-05-2012, 17:51
Right brand new tonearm cable fitted, its up against Nordost TYR. First impressions are very very good indeed!

Marco
05-05-2012, 17:58
Seems promising, Andy... Look forward to your more detailed thoughts.

Is it the 428 Phono cable you've got or the 432.5?

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
05-05-2012, 18:14
Tbh im not really sure I went for some weird quad geometry cable with solid silver rather than silver litz or silver plated copper. I'll have to dig out the emails from Yannis. I'm listening to Iron Maiden at the moment and treble is out of this world. Very clear, great instrument seperation and bass seems to be more defined with less bloom and more impact. Each instrument can be followed with greater ease. The real tester will be Dream Theater!!! Those guys should have been employed just for devising torture tracks for 1210's.

Sonority
05-05-2012, 18:25
Tbh im not really sure I went for some weird quad geometry cable with solid silver rather than silver litz or silver plated copper. I'll have to dig out the emails from Yannis. I'm listening to Iron Maiden at the moment and treble is out of this world. Very clear, great instrument seperation and bass seems to be more defined with less bloom and more impact. Each instrument can be followed with greater ease. The real tester will be Dream Theater!!! Those guys should have been employed just for devising torture tracks for 1210's.

Black clouds & silver linings track one will hit 102db in my room with ease :-)
though to be honest that I only let happen fr a few seconds - it is fun though. Very clean recording.
If you can find a copy of Trente Moller - The Last Resort (there are a few still out there apparently) that will give the tracking abilty of the new setup a very nice test :-)

MartinT
05-05-2012, 20:10
I now have a completely silver setup. Everything is silver, tonearm wire, interconnects, powerleads!!

Interesting, Andrew, I have gone the opposite way, from silver to copper cables throughout.

Marco
05-05-2012, 20:22
Have you also changed the tonearm cable on your Dynavector arm - that was silver, no? :)

For me, what's most important, is not necessarily the material the conductor is made from, but how well the overall construction of the cable has been executed, in terms of addressing known sonic challenges in cable design - and doing it successfully!

Getting bogged down on whether cables are silver or copper is missing the point somewhat, IMO. It's not primarily what attracted me to the design that Yannis has come up with.

Marco.

MartinT
05-05-2012, 20:36
Have you also changed the tonearm cable on your Dynavector arm - that was silver, no? :)

Oops, forgot the tonearm cable when I wrote that. Getting ahead of myself, but the DV cable seems to be doing the job nicely. It'll be very interesting trying out yours.

Marco
05-05-2012, 20:43
Yup - hopefully the new and improved one (with posh plugs) will be here by then :)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
08-05-2012, 18:44
Have you also changed the tonearm cable on your Dynavector arm - that was silver, no? :)

For me, what's most important, is not necessarily the material the conductor is made from, but how well the overall construction of the cable has been executed, in terms of addressing known sonic challenges in cable design - and doing it successfully!

Getting bogged down on whether cables are silver or copper is missing the point somewhat, IMO. It's not primarily what attracted me to the design that Yannis has come up with.

Marco.
Agreed but I also think the number interconnects and various other cables needed to get the sonics from your MC to your speakers also has a massive impact. I have two layers less than you guys in that I dont have speaker cables as such but balanced interconnects and I dont have a SUT which adds another layer of interconnects. What do you think?

MartinT
08-05-2012, 19:32
I have two layers less than you guys in that I dont have speaker cables as such but balanced interconnects and I dont have a SUT which adds another layer of interconnects. What do you think?

I think the connections are far less important than the cable used. Most important of all is impedance and energy matching; the reason adding a SUT into the circuit can sound so good is that it better matches the energy output of the cartridge, greatly surpassing the added complexity.

Wakefield Turntables
08-05-2012, 19:44
I think the connections are far less important than the cable used. Most important of all is impedance and energy matching; the reason adding a SUT into the circuit can sound so good is that it better matches the energy output of the cartridge, greatly surpassing the added complexity.

HMMM, perhaps, but I agree with you with regards impedance. The tonearm cable and SR7 are extremely low impedence. BUT, my balanced interconnects and power leads arn't so this could be the next area of examination, I'll have to get my multimeter out and make some measurements. Just out of interest have you any idea what impedance values you've got floating around your system?? Show me yours and I'll show you mine (oooo missus) :flasher:

Reid Malenfant
08-05-2012, 19:48
Agreed but I also think the number interconnects and various other cables needed to get the sonics from your MC to your speakers also has a massive impact. I have two layers less than you guys in that I dont have speaker cables as such but balanced interconnects and I dont have a SUT which adds another layer of interconnects. What do you think?
You do have speaker cables, but they are kind of short :) You also have 3 sets of them in each speaker, one set from each power amplifier to it's respective drive unit.

The balanced interconnects between your pre amp & the speakers may as well be regarded as a standard (but balanced) interconnect between a pre amp & power amp.

You have no passive speaker crossover, it's active electronics that splits it before it hits the power amps. One advantage if done right, which I guess it should be being ATC :eyebrows:

I go along with Martin, the low voltage but relatively high current output of an MC doesn't lend itself to being at it's best when fed straight into a transistor, fet or indeed valve phono pre amp. The conversion of that highish current & low voltage to a higher voltage & lower current by a SUT can bring huge benefits in matching & consequent increase in signal to noise ratio (lower noise floor).

Wakefield Turntables
08-05-2012, 20:15
Mark,

As ever I bow to your superior knowledge, didn't think too much about the amps and speaker drivers in my ATC's :doh: (Sorry martin!) Looks like I may be getting a SUT at some point but need to get the internal regs sorted and see what's sonically different with the latest slew of upgrades.

PS I've not forgot about the measurements for the 15XR's can you send me a PM detailing EXACTLY what you want me to measure.

Reid Malenfant
08-05-2012, 20:19
PS I've not forgot about the measurements for the 15XR's can you send me a PM detailing EXACTLY what you want me to measure.
Will do & cheers :)

Wakefield Turntables
17-06-2012, 12:58
The latest internal regs have arrived from Paul. I've taken a few piccies of them. I made a start installing the huge ingot of copper which came through the post. As you can see I have cut some silver to size, just need some bloody teflon :steam:. You may also notice I've made a couple of PCB mods in that the pitch control has gone altogether and is now simply replaced with a jumper and the wiring to the on/off pcb has been optimised down to the bare minimum. I'll be doing the PCB mods over the next few days whilst I wait for the teflon to arrive. Hope you like the piccies.

Mike_New
18-06-2012, 01:31
Hi Andrew,
I also have the new modules. Paul sent my set together with the set for James whose SL I have just upgraded for his cutting lathe.
I do have a couple of suggestions however based on my experience fitting James’s SL, which you may wish to consider.

Firstly I found it easier to solder the wires to the 21V supply (the lump of copper) directly to the PCB tracks. Drill 1mm holes into the PCB at the appropriate locations and directly soldered the wires onto the track. (Scrape the green masking coating away at the location of the holes)
I personally feel that this gives a much better connection than relying on the three sets of screw terminals, especially with silver wire which is very stiff and not easy to manipulate. This is especially valid with the centre terminal block, which has to receive three wires twisted together and placed into the terminal from the top. This approach allows the wires to be lower down avoiding any interference with platters. Drilling of these holes is pretty easy as the tracks are wide at the points required. The holes for the 27V input are the only ones where some care is required.

The soldering of the wires can easily be done before securing the module onto the two conical posts in the hollow of the SL.

If you are removing all the now redundant components at the bottom left of the PCB as suggested by Paul, you can now use the two ‘AC’ posts as connectors for the 21V supply to the motor drive chip. The lower post being the 0V Earth. (Bridge across to the securing screw location.)
Run a connector wire underneath the PCB to the point on the track where C110 and R107 are connected ( +21V ). This avoids having to drill a hole in a vulnerable spot on the PCB.

Also consider drilling two holes at the top of the PCB where it says “Technics”
Be sure to drill the holes between the two copper tracks. This will allow you to thread the two wires from the 9V module through these holes and solder directly to the required points. This again avoids drilling holes in the PCB close to components.

The 5V supply is no problem as the wires can use the existing holes for D301. as shown in image TAP31.

MartinT
18-06-2012, 06:00
There are a few ways of achieving it. I went under the main PCB and soldered direct to the track for the second +21V feed near C110 as I didn't want to drill any holes. I also mounted the two tertiary regulators component-side up, unlike Paul, as I found it easier to guide the silver wiring that way. I also star earthed everything except the +5V supply across D301 which Paul identified as critical for a short path.

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/P1000507.jpg

Wakefield Turntables
18-06-2012, 08:46
Well i've cut the tracks and removed all the components from the PCB, tonight i'm in Salford, going to some lectures about biomechanics :eek: so no techie development. I'll be planning where and how to drill the holes later this week and also getting my head around star earthing and a few other bits and pieces ;) I cant really got much further as I need some teflon for the silver i'm using :( thanks for the encouragement and recommendations guys

Andy

Wakefield Turntables
23-06-2012, 11:07
Teflon arrived today :eyebrows: I have a horrid feeling its not the correct diameter :steam: should commence soldering tonight..... :eyebrows::eyebrows:

Wakefield Turntables
26-06-2012, 21:17
Right everthing has been soldered together and plumbed in! MAN what a journey :) Just got to hook up the power supply and change to 27V. Then we can start spinning some vinyl again. All I can say is I'm glad I dont have to do this every day for a job. :beer:

MartinT
26-06-2012, 21:49
There is a point when you wonder if it'll ever turn a record again :)

Wakefield Turntables
26-06-2012, 21:52
I've just added a quick piccie of the inner workings! I have a really sneaky suspicion that it wont turn anything tomorrow, I just keep thinking I've missed something or the soldering isnt up to scratch :(

MartinT
26-06-2012, 22:21
Where's the red incoming going to (from the braided DC cable)? Shouldn't it be feeding the TDR-12?

Also, you really want to remove that plastic motor cover for best sound quality.

Wakefield Turntables
27-06-2012, 07:39
Red lead is the only bit that I haven't fitted yet, I goes to terminal 5 or 6 on the tr21 module, it's in the instructions, I just had enough last night and I decided to call it a day, the old eyes wear closing which isn't a good sign :eek:

Mike_New
27-06-2012, 07:51
Where's the red incoming going to (from the braided DC cable)? Shouldn't it be feeding the TDR-12?

Also, you really want to remove that plastic motor cover for best sound quality.

It's a good idea to put the coil cover on when you are doing this sort of work.
It can avoid inadvertant damage to the coils when you are waving a soldring iron or screw driver about!!

MartinT
27-06-2012, 09:03
Yes, agreed Mike. I was only concerned in case it was still fixed in place.

Wakefield Turntables
27-06-2012, 10:08
Normally the cover is off but as mike says its been on lately to stop coil damage don't worry it will be removed when I've finished. I will be updating later tonight, wish me luck :eyebrows:

MartinT
27-06-2012, 10:21
We're all waiting on you, Andrew, with fingers crossed!

Paul Hynes
27-06-2012, 10:39
Hi Andy,

Good luck with the upgrade. It looks OK so far. Make sure you check everything when you are fresh.

For those who are interested in the internal regulator upgrade, but lack the experience or the time to do it, I have set up a new upgrade service on the mainland in a trading association with ACS Ltd. The SL1200 regulator upgrade is the first upgrade offered and there will be more equipment upgrades for popular items of equipment in the near future.

Here is alink to the details of the new upgrade service at ACS Ltd :-

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=340290#post340290

Regards
Paul

Wakefield Turntables
27-06-2012, 19:34
Your not gonna believe this I've left my tools at work so I cant tune the external psu upto 27V :steam:. Man its been a long day!! Give you all an update tomorrow (promise!!)

Wakefield Turntables
28-06-2012, 07:42
Right. I have a problem :steam: I have set the psu to 27v checked it with a multimeter. Checked the soldering, checked I removed all the correct components. Battened everything down, replaced the platter and turned the psu on, thats when things went wrong :steam: I heard a small click, smelled some smoke and then noticed the platter was going round at a fast rate without stopping. The power button on the 1210 seems to have stopped working alongside the 33/45 rpm switches. Any ideas:scratch: or do I need a new pcb
:steam:

MartinT
28-06-2012, 09:04
Oh dear. I believe that Hamish experienced a similar problem with his 1210 and I'm not sure how it was resolved but I believe he was looking for a new motor drive IC.

I would disconnect all the power feeds to the main board and test the +21V, +9.4V and +5V reg outputs first. I hate to be premature but you might have blown the main board.

Mike_New
28-06-2012, 10:19
A small click is very synonymous with an IC popping off. Usually caused by the application of an inverse voltage. I have seen it happen.
Are you sure you got the red +27V into the correct hole?

Wakefield Turntables
28-06-2012, 11:19
I'm at work right now so will investigate tonight

RobbieGong
28-06-2012, 12:55
Feel for you Andrew and sincerely hope it isn't anything too serious, obviuosly stuf like this needed like the proverbial hole in the head !

Paul Hynes
28-06-2012, 13:06
Ooops.

Follow Martin’s suggestion to check you have not damaged any regulators first. If they are all OK then you may have got the polarity wrong on a board connection which, as Mike says, is likely to blow a chip. See if you can see any sign of thermal damage to parts on the main board. If so let me know which ones, as this will help diagnosis.

If there is nothing obvious I will check the deck out for you if you send it to me complete with all the wiring you have added but minus the arm, as this will not be required for the check.

Regards
Paul

Wakefield Turntables
28-06-2012, 16:22
Thanks for the generous offer. I've a ordered a spare pcb off eBay just in case;) will have a good look around the pcbs tonight before curry ;) oh well I suppose I'll have to have another with the cd player :rolleyes:

Wakefield Turntables
28-06-2012, 18:13
just switched the TT on and it still works and nothing else has blown up :lol: These new mods are ace, my platter spins the wrong way around now :lol: (i'm not taking the pi$$ Paul, just out of myself ;)) Right off for curry and the 1210 can sulk in the corner for another few days. :cool:

MartinT
28-06-2012, 18:29
my platter spins the wrong way around now

At last you'll be able to hear what John Lennon really said...

leo
28-06-2012, 18:48
Sorry to hear about the problem, unfortunately things don't always run smooth with the old diy . If in doubt with anything try to take as many pics as possible and post on here for us all to go over . A few pairs of eyes can be useful checking over things :)

Wakefield Turntables
29-06-2012, 17:27
Leo,

thanks for the support mate, I just put this experience down to one of those things. I have a new pcb coming so i'm gonna have another go :D I think to be honest it was shit soldering technique which blow the board. Never mind. If I blow the second one I'm giving up and buying a new CD player and switching to digital. :rfl:

Marco
29-06-2012, 17:32
Wow... I admire the way you can laugh these things off. If that'd been me, I'd have been near suicidal! That's why I only let experts anywhere near my T/T!! :exactly:

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
29-06-2012, 18:16
Whilst the 1210 is my pride and joy its still only an inanimate object. I was really pissed when the board blew because I managed to get another decent haul of vinyl. I have about 30 albums propped up against my wall waiting for a spin :doh: I really must get my 301 fully sorted so that I have a 2nd TT when problems like this occur on my 1210. :eyebrows:

RobbieGong
29-06-2012, 19:40
Like your 'It aint life or death' attitude Andrew (Have had to exercise that one a few times trust me, when my daughter spilled nail varnish all over my brown leather recliner comes to mind). With regard to the soldering - I learned that one myself recently whilst fitting my new psu. The Techie struggles to start, red on light flickers away etc. Found out it is due to my blobby soldering joins which in effect cause voltage drop etc so I'm gonna have to undo that and solder in a neater and tidier fashion :rolleyes: Soldering is one of those things that is easy to do but harder to do right :eyebrows:
Your a brave man tackling the 'regs mod' cause that one looks like a bridge too far for me and would be handed out to someone who knows the job.

Wakefield Turntables
29-06-2012, 19:47
Well! Whilst I'm for the PCB for the 121090 I think I may have secured a Thorens TD150 for peanuts so this could be a little side project. :eyebrows:

MartinT
29-06-2012, 22:46
Meanwhile Andrew, what news of the regs and checking their voltages? You can be doing that while waiting for the replacement board. In fact, you MUST before you risk blowing another one.

You should be able to test for the +21V, +9.4V and +5V outputs easily enough. I used the '+' sign deliberately so that you double-check polarity too.

Mike_New
30-06-2012, 00:10
Andrew,
Martin is absolutely correct, you must try to find out what went wrong before possibly repeating the 'orrible' exercise!.
Examine the PCB carefully and check each connection. Switch on the power whilst the platter is removed and check voltages at the 21V module. Check that the +27V is going to the correct terminal. Check the actual voltage on the wire.
Check the +9V and +5V outputs.

Before doing all this check that you have the + and - leads of you voltmeter going to correct terminals on the meter. (it can happen!!)

It maybe that all you have done, is to blow up one of the sub modules (9v or 5V)
or perhaps they are producing the incorrect voltage??

Now check the voltages at the PCB.

When soldering: always take the solder to the job.
Never ever melt a blob of solder onto the tip of the iron and carry this to the solder point.

The reason is that by the time you get the blob of solder to the job all the resin flux will have evaporated away and you will get a "dry joint".
I have seen countless problems caused by this.
It is very easy to secure the wire into the holes by bending over the ends if required before soldering. Although you will need to be very carefull doing this on the sub modules as there is not much room available on the very small solder pads provided.

Wakefield Turntables
30-06-2012, 10:07
RIGHT! You have all spurred me on to diagnose what went wrong. I suppose it's a good exercise for the future. I'm supposed to be finishing off my MSc this weekend but a little time spent with the deck could be found I suppose :D

MartinT
30-06-2012, 10:14
Shame you're so far away, Andrew, or I'd take a look at it for you.

Wakefield Turntables
30-06-2012, 18:20
Shame you're so far away, Andrew, or I'd take a look at it for you.

Thats awfully generous of you, I'd get you to star earth as well at the same time. :eyebrows: The disection begins tomorrow.

PS I've edited my sig to make light of the situation. :cool:

Wakefield Turntables
05-07-2012, 21:30
Gentlemen I'm back in the land of vinyl. :cool: Reinstalled the SR7XL now running at 21V will do the internal regs again at some point next week. :cool:

MartinT
05-07-2012, 21:50
Ah good, glad you're playing again. Plenty of time to regroup, take a deep breath and try again.

Mike_New
05-07-2012, 23:31
Are you now running on a new PCB? or the old one.

lurcher
05-07-2012, 23:48
You are not that far from me (Halifax) so if you need another set of eyes to check things over just shout.

Wakefield Turntables
06-07-2012, 07:06
Ah good, glad you're playing again. Plenty of time to regroup, take a deep breath and try again.

Yep thats what I was thinking! I have 30 albums worth of stuff to listen to before I try those again!


Are you now running on a new PCB? or the old one.

Yep its a new one. Only removed the basics to get Paul PSU working again


You are not that far from me (Halifax) so if you need another set of eyes to check things over just shout.

thanks mate! I dont like to hassle people but I might just take you up on this if I get stuck again. I'll try hard not to ;)

JazzBones
06-07-2012, 08:37
I awoke at 5:30am and whilst lying in bed and staring out of the window at todays shite weather and longing for warmer climes, I started to ponder on Pauly's psu unit for the Tekko. I thought, sympathetically, that Andy (REXTON) must certainly have dropped a brown skittle or three when he, quote: 'completely fucked up' his PCB.... I feel for you Andy, truly truly. Now with this in mind I started talking to myself, inspite of the missus telling me to 'shut up or get a cuppa tea'. This is the crux of my thoughts:

1. Why can't I JUST SEND the PCB to Pauly H?
2. Said Pauly does the necessary surgery on the PCB.
3. Pauly solders the goddam wiring onto the PCB and eliminates unwanted bits from the PCB.
4. PH then identifies and colour codes the wiring to where it/they must be screwed into connecting terminals (matching colour code).
5. Sends the circuit board back to the anxious and grateful customer.
6. The grateful customer could then connect everything up, paying due attention to colour codes and any other instructions, with the priviso that the grateful customer isn't a complete dingaling and can't even use a knife and fork, or flush a toilet :eyebrows:
7. And finally, Pauly makes a charge for his help and time and presents his bill.

Just my musings at 5:30am on a rainy day whilst my missus has resumed her snoring, folks :)

Ron

Paul Hynes
06-07-2012, 10:13
Hi Andy,

Glad you are back in music land. I get the impression that you are a man with a purpose who will not be defeated. However, if you decide against having another go yourself, my offer of sorting this out for you still stands.

Hi Ron,

Nice idea, but I have already made provision for having this work done professionally. Those who wish to have this work done for them should contact David Webb at ACS Ltd in Norfolk.

See :- http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16655&page=2

I am not trying to be unhelpful or awkward here, Ron. This decision has been taken to gradually divest myself of modification work and pass it over to David. Eventually manufacturing and business administration may go this way too. The reason for this is that the business was originally conceived as a part time, self-funding, operation but it has mushroomed into more than a full time operation over the last two years, as international interest in my products has expanded dramatically. I am at the point where I need help with the business to go further, and keep things rolling. In fact this point was reached quite a while back but I have been unable to find a solution locally as there are no indigenous electronics or quality metalworking industries on the isles. Because of this it is difficult to get staff with the right attributes here, and, fantastic though this place is, I have not yet managed to entice someone to re-locate here to join the business as the production manager. This means that I am constantly fighting to keep up with demand. Component and material sourcing issues this last year have not helped the situation either (the biggest of these has been the custom SR5 and SR7 case anodising fiasco. If you are an anodising company, what do you not understand about aluminium anodising? It’s not rocket science FFS). Fortunately I have now found a solution for this by re-designing the modules used in this case to fit a smaller case with off the shelf availability, but it should never have happened in the first place. I am primarily a design engineer and I can do without the hassle of administration and the time-consuming aspects of production. I have a lot of design work, equipment modification plans and production engineering work on hold, because I have no spare time to pursue this. It is just time to start sorting all this stuff out and get back to what I do best, rather than taking on additional modification commitments here. I will still be designing equipment modifications but once they are verified I will be passing them on to David for the actual modification service.

Regards
Paul

Paul Hynes
06-07-2012, 14:04
Hi Andy,

I have been discussing your deck saga with David Webb at ACS and he has offered to finish the internal regulation modifications for you should you require this. This could save another disappointment if you get it wrong again.

I know there is some reluctance to ship decks around via carriers, so this would be helpful if you do not want to ship the deck to me. The round trip can be done in a day, comfortably, from where you are based and David says that if you cannot manage a trip during the working week he would, in this instance, be prepared to do this on a Saturday for you. He would just charge you for the labour involved in regulator fitting and testing. If you want David to do this for you just give him a ring to arrange a visit.

Regards
Paul

Wakefield Turntables
06-07-2012, 18:39
:youtheman:
I awoke at 5:30am and whilst lying in bed and staring out of the window at todays shite weather and longing for warmer climes, I started to ponder on Pauly's psu unit for the Tekko. I thought, sympathetically, that Andy (REXTON) must certainly have dropped a brown skittle or three when he, quote: 'completely fucked up' his PCB.... I feel for you Andy, truly truly. Now with this in mind I started talking to myself, inspite of the missus telling me to 'shut up or get a cuppa tea'. This is the crux of my thoughts:

1. Why can't I JUST SEND the PCB to Pauly H?
2. Said Pauly does the necessary surgery on the PCB.
3. Pauly solders the goddam wiring onto the PCB and eliminates unwanted bits from the PCB.
4. PH then identifies and colour codes the wiring to where it/they must be screwed into connecting terminals (matching colour code).
5. Sends the circuit board back to the anxious and grateful customer.
6. The grateful customer could then connect everything up, paying due attention to colour codes and any other instructions, with the priviso that the grateful customer isn't a complete dingaling and can't even use a knife and fork, or flush a toilet :eyebrows:
7. And finally, Pauly makes a charge for his help and time and presents his bill.

Just my musings at 5:30am on a rainy day whilst my missus has resumed her snoring, folks :)

Ron


Blimey, Ron. Nice to be in your thoughts at 5.30am! i didnt realise this time of day existed. :D


Hi Andy,

Glad you are back in music land. I get the impression that you are a man with a purpose who will not be defeated. However, if you decide against having another go yourself, my offer of sorting this out for you still stands.



Many thanks again. I hate being beaten i'm gonna listen to the rest of my new albums and then make a decision as to what I'm doing next. Thanks for having a word with David Webb. Its an honour being in the company of such worthy audiophiles!

Mike_New
07-07-2012, 03:05
But that would take to fun out of tuning for maximum smoke!!

sq225917
07-07-2012, 06:35
Well i can't beat 5:30 but I was thinking about you at 7:30am this morning. You're that close to having it finished that it hurts the readers on the forum every bit as much as it does you, me included.

Wakefield Turntables
07-07-2012, 09:00
Well i can't beat 5:30 but I was thinking about you at 7:30am this morning. You're that close to having it finished that it hurts the readers on the forum every bit as much as it does you, me included.

Heart felt thanks mate. It's what makes this forum so special.

Marco
10-07-2012, 15:58
Yes, but he didn't say what he was doing when he was thinking of you, or what he was holding! :eek: :eyebrows:

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
10-07-2012, 16:24
Yes, but he didn't say what he was doing when he was thinking of you, or what he was holding! :eek: :eyebrows:

Marco.


ooooo you are naughty! Well the 1210 is heading up north for the internal regs to be checked out as I may have damaged them, ooops! ;)

Marco
10-07-2012, 16:30
Oooh fook, it gets better (not)... You defo win the primo daftee award for 2012! I'll advise you of your prize later!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
10-07-2012, 16:34
Oooh fook, it gets better (not)... You defo win the primo daftee award for 2012! I'll advise you of your prize later!! :eyebrows:

Marco.


Hopefully its not a jiffy bag of poo :scratch: I'll post quite a funny picture of my 1210 as it sits at the moment. :cool:

Marco
10-07-2012, 16:58
After you, sire....

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
01-09-2012, 16:23
right, an update is needed. The 1210 is now sitting having a holiday in Scotland, a new PCB is winging its way to Paul. I managed to knacker the pcb with some dodgy soldering :doh: Paul will hopefully work his magic and I should have the 1210 at some point this year. Meanwhile I have a nice Alphason solo turntable to keeping me company and my 301 may get back before the 1210 :eyebrows: I should also have a new SUT and P10, so the 1210 should be well up there with the others!

MartinT
03-09-2012, 18:47
Here's hoping, Andrew!

Wakefield Turntables
14-09-2012, 18:36
New PCB has arrived at Paul's and with a little luck we should have the 1210 back alongside some more tweeks, stay tuned!!

Wakefield Turntables
08-10-2012, 19:21
Paul got back in contact today, the 1210 will be coming home in next couple of weeks, with a few nice surprises. :yay:

John
08-10-2012, 19:57
Been a long waait I am sure Paul down an excellent job and performing even better than before

MartinT
08-10-2012, 20:55
You've been patient, Andrew. Your reward will come soon :)

Wakefield Turntables
06-11-2012, 20:34
Blimey its all happening... Right new upgrades a plenty

1. 1210 back next week (hopefully) with a new capped PCB (thats a new mod)!!
2. New Ortofon STU http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Ortofon-ST-80-SE-MC-Step-Up-Transformer/product_5436?ref=gmc
3. Yannis 222 litz interconnects


picks will follow at some stage!

MartinT
07-11-2012, 17:22
Keep us informed, Andrew. I'm sure you're looking forward to getting the Techie up and running again.

Marco
07-11-2012, 17:27
Blimey its all happening... Right new upgrades a plenty

2. New Ortofon STU

I think you mean 'SUT', daftee... Anyway, have you committed to buy this yet? If not, I know where you can get the ST-80SE much cheaper new! PM me for details :)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
12-11-2012, 16:58
New toy for the 1210 when it arrives tomorrow. If things goto plan the system should be back up and running either tomorrow or wednesday. Plenty of pics to follow. :cool:

Wakefield Turntables
18-11-2012, 19:34
Just a few pics of the 1210 now as it stands. I managed to get a decent shot of the Cadenza black. A new mod is installed on the PCB, its recapped. You can also see the pitch control has been removed and a small jumpre installed. The power button has been rewired and of course those fantasic tripple regs from PH. The Mike New bearing is also sticking out:eyebrows: Finally a larger shot of the 1210 with a strengthened and modified plinth, its in full flow playing some Iron Maiden :rock:

RobbieGong
18-11-2012, 21:12
Nice Work Andrew, Btw, Whenever you get bored with da Black, send it my way - Pretty Please ! :D
Oh! And hows it all sounding now ??

Wakefield Turntables
19-11-2012, 21:01
things are beginning to settle down now and I can hear definite changes. I'm not going to write too much just yet as I want the components to calm doing before I make any judgements. ;)

Wakefield Turntables
03-11-2013, 09:38
All this talk of new platters has made me wonder if my deck might need something new to cheer it up for Xmas :scratch: I'm thinking either a nice new phonostage or a platter (but which one)? I heard an extremely nice 3 boxed phonostage a few days back. My old sugden has fended off many phonostages over the years including Whest, Lehmann, Trichord, Naim, some costing considerably more than what I paid for the sugden. I may relegate the Sugden into the Valve system. Hopefully there should be something new in the mix by the end of the year. :eyebrows:

MartinT
06-12-2013, 06:58
Which Whest did you trial, Andy? If you didn't listen to a PS.30R (or even a PS.30RDT), I would recommend a listen.

Wakefield Turntables
06-12-2013, 10:48
It was the PS.30RDT SE http://www.whestaudio.co.uk/phono-stage/ps30rdt-se.php and to be honest I hated it, it sounded only very fractionally better than the Sugden. I honestly could not justify the extra cost of this phonostage for the small amount of performance that it gave me over the Sugden phonostage. TBH the Sugden is extremely good value for money and I can't believe that it's never recieved a formal review (well I can't seem to find one). Simon fetched over his 3 box version of the Paradise phonostage for a listening session and it instantly outperformed the Sugden. I have gone for the 4 box version :eyebrows: with very closely matched tolerances to caps and resistors etc ok maybe not the same as a Whest but I'm getting far better (in my eyes) performance for considerably less than the Whest. It's still being made for me so I have to put up with the Sugden (lives hard!!).

MartinT
06-12-2013, 13:11
Ok, well I don't think the PS.30RDT is much better, if any, than the PS.30R that I have. However, I cannot reconcile your description of 'hated' with the fabulous sound that I get from mine, so it's probably not worth continuing this discussion!

Marco
06-12-2013, 14:06
Your Whest phono stage undoubtedly sounds superb - or rather, let's qualify that: your Whest sounds superb when used in MM mode, in conjunction with your Hashimoto SUTs. That combination is stunning, and without doubt, one of the finest I've heard.

The Whest on its own, however, is good but nothing spectacular, IMO. I simply think you've hit upon an excellent combination, Martin, which compliments your Shelter 5000 and the Technics T/T connected to it really well :)

However, a bespoke built, 'no-compromise' judiciously assembled DIY design, such as Simon's Paradise (if it's anything like other such designs I've heard) could be another thing entirely....

I'll be bringing a couple of interesting toys with me to your place, namely the Arkless MC head amp and a (fully fine-silver wired) MC head amp Paul Hynes has designed, powered by an SR5 PSU. It'll be interesting hearing how those boys compete in your system with our resident SUTs!

:exactly:

Marco.

MartinT
06-12-2013, 14:24
That'll be interesting. I've heard the PH before, but not powered by an SR-5. Yes, the Whest works superbly in MM mode with a SUT, but then I haven't heard an MC active stage ever that matches a good SUT and I've heard a good few now.

Marco
06-12-2013, 14:31
You couldn't have heard this head amp of Paul's, mate, as it's a design he hasn't built before :)

Totally agree with you about active MC stages, although the Aurorasound Vida, which Guy Sergeant has loaned me, is unquestionably the finest of such beasts I've heard so far:

http://www.puresound.info/id15.html

I'd better not bring that down with me in case it results in your Amex becoming rather nervous! :eyebrows:

Marco.

MartinT
06-12-2013, 14:49
My Amex is already nervous this month, what with a car service, new tyres, trip booking for next year and Christmas presents :eek:

I wonder what PH phono stage it was that Shuggie brought around a couple of years ago, then?

Marco
06-12-2013, 14:54
Lol - tell me about it! :D

This is not a phono stage, dude. It's a moving coil head amp, which is used into the MM section of a partnering phono stage, so it would effectively replace your Choir Audio SUT.

I'm just listening to it now (as it only arrived today). My goodness, this sounds astonishing!! :eek: :eek:

If initial results are anyting to go by (when the head amp and PSU are stone cold), I think you're gonna love it... ;)

Right, gotta shoot folks - laters!

Marco.

MartinT
06-12-2013, 14:55
Looking forward to it!

Ammonite Audio
06-12-2013, 14:57
My Amex is already nervous this month, what with a car service, new tyres, trip booking for next year and Christmas presents :eek:

I wonder what PH phono stage it was that Shuggie brought around a couple of years ago, then?

My PH phono stage is the Veron Concert, a valve device for MM input only with a separate PSU. As with his other designs, it is stuffed with carefully applied discrete regulators. The new version that he's developed has the valves mounted vertically, rather than horizontally as in mine.

chris@panteg
06-12-2013, 15:16
Very interesting, if I might chime in here , I now have a Puresound T10 , it's a perfect match for the 33EV and works quite well into the pearl lite, unfortunately it doesn't work with the Diablo , the Diablo having far too much gain.

I like the T10 , a good investment for the future.

Paul Hynes
06-12-2013, 15:28
Hi Martin,

The phono stage Shuggie took to your listening sesh was a modified entry-level unit that had a valve change to give more gain. This valve change was not a good one sonically and it made the music sound edgy and to my ears annoying. I had thought some burn-in time would remove this trait but it did not and Shuggie following my advice returned the circuit to it’s original status and re-fitted my chosen valve type accepting a lower gain but returning the musical sound.

This phono stage has evolved further and I am preparing a version with the XL level of materials used for construction, Teflon circuit boards with rolled copper foil, Bulk Foil resisters, slit foil coupling capacitors, fine silver wire, etc. The external power supply HT is now upgraded to the high voltage regulator equivalent of the ultra low noise circuit topology used in the SR7 that you use on your SL1210 decks. The phono stage already uses this HT regulator topology internally on each amplification stage but using it externally as well gives another layer of wide-band supply line rejection and lower noise operation. A new external power supply is also being production engineered using the SR7 Multirail format to provide completely separate, fully regulated, galvanically isolated supply lines for each individual stage of amplification in the phono stage. This effectively removes any ground return current inter-modulation that occurs when a single power supply powers more than one amplification stage.

Regards
Paul

MartinT
06-12-2013, 16:18
Thanks for the explanation, Paul. I was being circumspect in saying that I hadn't liked the sound very much but I do remember Hugo saying he had been playing around with the valves.

Very interesting about the new phono stage and MC head amp. An SR7 for the 1210 looks like overkill so what does an SR7 for a phono amp look like?!

Paul Hynes
06-12-2013, 18:10
Hi Martin,

The SR7 Multirail for the phono stage currently uses the same case style as the SR7 for the SL1210 but has a greater front to back depth of 340mm. It's not overkill as it makes a big difference to the sound quality.

Regards
Paul

MartinT
06-12-2013, 20:17
Don't worry, Paul. You made me a believer in power supplies some while ago.

I have enough of yours to qualify for platinum membership ;)