View Full Version : The worst sounding recording ever
magiccarpetride
31-01-2011, 20:58
My daughter wanted to listen to her newly purchased CD on my big audio system (The Black Keys "Brothers" http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Black-Keys/dp/B003AO1SVS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1296506548&sr=8-3)
Holly crap, what a terrible sound! I mean, the music was very good, even awesome in many areas, but the sound quality was absolutely criminal (my wife got alarmed and rushed in from the kitchen as she thought that our hi fi got broken!)
Everything on this CD sounds sick. As in suffering from high fever and being delirious. To begin with, the sound is dirty, pushed to the very edge of distortion (which could be OK in my book). Then, they've applied compression and limiting to the very max, and I'm sure they did many more nasty trickery to make it sound this shitty.
In my view, this is absolutely unfair to the artists, who are obviously very talented. But what if they themselves insisted on this shitty production? What if this is the new 'hip'? I dread thinking about it, but if that's the harbinger of things to come in the future, I'll be running for the hills with my trusted CD collection from the days long gone.
Call me an old fart, but this is a real abomination of music. Which is a shame, 'cause I would love to be able to hear these guys on a normal, uncompressed recording. They play well, they sing well, they write good material. Why must they ruin it during mixing/mastering?
And just so that you don't think that I'm an unsalvageable dirty old hippie, I LOVE the White Stripes (I suspect the Black Keys were trying to emulate a bit of the White Stripes minimalist sound). I love the way White Stripes push their sound over the edge. It is distorted and all that, but it doesn't sound sick at all.
So what's the secret in making your sound appear totally sick, as if burning in high fever?
Kasabian - Empire is pretty dire as well. I also have a dance music compilation from a few years ago. Greattracks but all three discs were so hard limited, they sound like a very worn stylus..
Ali Tait
31-01-2011, 21:42
Yes it's sad, and endemic to modern mainstream recordings unfortunately.
electric beach
01-02-2011, 10:07
In my view, this is absolutely unfair to the artists, who are obviously very talented. But what if they themselves insisted on this shitty production?
I've just acquired the new Adele CD "21". It's been a long wait since "19", brilliant in both content and production and my anticipation was palpable...
Admittedly I have to check another copy in case I've got a dud - but screaming tweeters, this is unlistenable. The distortion is audible on quiet passages at low volume.
Took it in the car today, still a painful experience. I'm so disappointed.
Here's an artist that has proven her ability deserves and rewards the greatest attention to production quality. The long awaited album was pretty much assured financial success, so that only leaves a conclusion of negligence.
:spank:
DanJennings
01-02-2011, 10:28
It's been mentioned to death, but Metallica's Death Magnetic is a dreadful offender.
Distorted drums, the whole sound compressed to hell, it was such a shame because the music itself is such a return to form for them. (And I also paid a huge amount of money for the limited edition coffin box, so I'm especially narked)
Ive lost count the number of cds i bought the last few years , good pieces of music that were recorded badly and i only played a few times.
Now i only buy artists on record labels i trust. Domino , Matidor Rough trade , are good labels. I dont trust the big labels. I find them to be the biggest offenders.
,
chris@panteg
01-02-2011, 12:14
Well if it sounds worse than ' :eyebrows:Death magnetic or ' what's the story morning glory , that would be some feat
I’ve got this recording Alex and I don’t think it’s any worse than a great many others.
Once again its about your system. If a system tends to exaggerate the differences in recording quality to the point they are un-listenable then there is something wrong with the system.
Interestingly, both the Black Keys albums I have sound “hard” and raucous, that’s how the band sounds Alex. I think that’s how they want you to hear their music.
System balance Alex, it’s about being able to listen to the music, not the recording quality ;)
magiccarpetride
01-02-2011, 19:00
I’ve got this recording Alex and I don’t think it’s any worse than a great many others.
Once again its about your system. If a system tends to exaggerate the differences in recording quality to the point they are un-listenable then there is something wrong with the system.
Interestingly, both the Black Keys albums I have sound “hard” and raucous, that’s how the band sounds Alex. I think that’s how they want you to hear their music.
System balance Alex, it’s about being able to listen to the music, not the recording quality ;)
It may be that your system is capable of applying liberal quantities of candy coating to the music it's playing, hence to your ears, this CD sounds nice. I can easily imagine taking that CD to a local hi fi shop and playing it on a $120,000 flagship system that will make it sound super sweet and mellow.
A lot of these ultra high end cone-and-boxed speakers add copious amounts of mellifluous coloration, thus turning everything into a super sweet 3D-rama. I've seen a lot of well heeled audiophiles (here in Vancouver, most of them are wealthy real estate agents who made their first millions moving from Hong Kong to North America), and these people absolutely crave such colorized systems. They'd pay obscene amounts of money to be able to get a system that will turn anything into that syrupy molasses of sound.
I'm more into truth in music reproduction. Not interested in sanding off any rough edges.
Interestingly, and I've mentioned that in my original post, another rough at the edges, super impolite band (White Stripes) sounds awesome on my system. The insane amount of screechy distortion is all there, in its full glory, but instead of bothering me, that maddening cacophony only serves to enhance the listening enjoyment.
I’ve got this recording Alex and I don’t think it’s any worse than a great many others.
Once again its about your system. If a system tends to exaggerate the differences in recording quality to the point they are un-listenable then there is something wrong with the system.
Interestingly, both the Black Keys albums I have sound “hard” and raucous, that’s how the band sounds Alex. I think that’s how they want you to hear their music.
System balance Alex, it’s about being able to listen to the music, not the recording quality ;)
Agreed John, it's not their worst recording by any means (I've got their last 5), and it sounds better on my main system than on my secondary ones, there's an awful lot of deliberate analogue distortion on there, and it needs a precise DAC to sort it out, they want that 'raw' sound.
Stick clear of Eels 'Hombre Lobo' in that case, the whole thing's done through an old 'harmonica mike', and is very gritty! Or the latest National album, with lots of 12 string 'effects'.
I find that albums like these are a real test of a system, particularly of a DAC, on a lesser quality system the recording sounds distorted, on a better one you can tell that it's a good recording of deliberate distortion...if you know what I mean
aquapiranha
08-02-2011, 16:48
My brother had a copy of Oasis whats the story. Now, I despise oasis but gave it a go anyway. Big mistake! the sound 'quality' could only be described as a cacophony of shite. Utter gash of the highest order,, and as it turns out the music wasn't much better either. Also, I have a copy of Time by ELO and that too sounds like it was recorded inside a cadbury's roses tin.
Word has it, it was Celebrations... Although obviously for you it wasn't! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Oasis sound shite full stop...no producer could ever fix that.
I've seen the black keys on several occasions, and am in-fact listening to brothers as we speak, they deliberately overdrive the snare drum sound to give it that live hip hop feel, without resorting to sampling, something that Quantic also do.
They want a rough, raw, bluesy sound, not some overly clean AOR dire straits twaddle...;)
You may want to check out this review;
http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/review/the-black-keys-brothers/2115
...a small excerpt from it;
"Having brought in Danger Mouse to produce their previous outing, Attack & Release, Dan Auerbach and Patrick Carney ventured to the legendary studios of Muscle Shoals for this largely DIY project. Danger Mouse's sole production credit here, "Tighten Up," is one of the set's highlights, underscoring Auerbach's ragged wails of "honey child" with a scintillating funk groove. But the bulk of the album proves that Auerbach and Carney are at their best when they rely on their own pinpoint-precise instincts. Their production is one of Brothers's strengths: Inspired flourishes like the harpsichord on "Too Afraid to Love You" fold effortlessly into the blues aesthetic. The percussion lines are really incidental to the deep rhythm guitar riffs, while the lead electric guitar lines always have ample breathing room."
aquapiranha
08-02-2011, 17:11
Word has it, it was Celebrations... Although obviously for you it wasn't! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Indeed Marco. Oasis are in my humble opinion THE most overhyped P.O.S. ever in the history of pop music. If I was stuck on a desert island and had the choice of either them or black lace to listen to, I would be singing agadoo on the beach....
magiccarpetride
08-02-2011, 17:35
I find that albums like these are a real test of a system, particularly of a DAC, on a lesser quality system the recording sounds distorted, on a better one you can tell that it's a good recording of deliberate distortion...if you know what I mean
Looks/sounds like the Gatorized Caiman DAC is not up to the snuff in this case. It can't seem to handle such gargantuan levels of distortion gracefully.
Oh well, you get what you pay for, I suppose.
Looks/sounds like the Gatorized Caiman DAC is not up to the snuff in this case. It can't seem to handle such gargantuan levels of distortion gracefully.
Oh well, you get what you pay for, I suppose.
Surely you must be able to differentiate between what is deliberately distorted and what isn't...
Give it a few more listens and it may make more sense, it's a fine piece of work IMHO
It's definitely not a Trevor Horn production, I'll give you that, but it's all the better for it...:)
magiccarpetride
08-02-2011, 18:29
Surely you must be able to differentiate between what is deliberately distorted and what isn't...
Oh, for sure. I've already mentioned how much I love the excessive, over the top distortion on the White Stripes CDs. I can plainly hear that all that was introduced deliberately, including the shitty super-distorting vocal mics Jack was using to yell into. All that melange nevertheless creates a beautiful, ear-pleasing cacophony, because it was mixed and mastered with a lot of finesse and know-how.
The Black Keys material appears to me as if mixed by some high school hooligans who were smoking too much crack that day.
Give it a few more listens and it may make more sense, it's a fine piece of work IMHO
No doubt, I think they are outstanding musicians and performers. As a matter of fact, I made it my pledge for this year to learn several of the more intoxicating guitar riffs off that CD. In a word, they're awesome! It's just that the mixdown and mastering is atrocious:(
It's definitely not a Trevor Horn production, I'll give you that, but it's all the better for it...:)
Hey, as I've said, nothing wrong with the 'industrial strength' approach to production, a la the White Stripes or Bill Laswell. I love that shit (and it sounds super spectacular on my giant Maggies). But puhleeze, do it with some finesse, not just ham fisted like that!
Oh, for sure. I've already mentioned how much I love the excessive, over the top distortion on the White Stripes CDs. I can plainly hear that all that was introduced deliberately, including the shitty super-distorting vocal mics Jack was using to yell into. All that melange nevertheless creates a beautiful, ear-pleasing cacophony, because it was mixed and mastered with a lot of finesse and know-how.
The Black Keys material appears to me as if mixed by some high school hooligans who were smoking too much crack that day.
No doubt, I think they are outstanding musicians and performers. As a matter of fact, I made it my pledge for this year to learn several of the more intoxicating guitar riffs off that CD. In a word, they're awesome! It's just that the mixdown and mastering is atrocious:(
Hey, as I've said, nothing wrong with the 'industrial strength' approach to production, a la the White Stripes or Bill Laswell. I love that shit (and it sounds super spectacular on my giant Maggies). But puhleeze, do it with some finesse, not just ham fisted like that!
Given that they produced it themselves I assume they knew what they were after, perhaps you should have a go with 'Magic Potion' as that is a more conventionally produced album...;)
Or even their other guise Blakroc, and is a superb hybrid of blues & R&B/Rap
ttwuRgY88Wo
Filterlab
18-02-2011, 14:50
So what's the secret in making your sound appear totally sick, as if burning in high fever?
It only takes a few simple steps to make a good recording sound bad. Let me show you how, if you want the sound files for comparison burned to disc or emailed then I'm happy to do that. :)
Firstly, let's take a well known good quality recording - a hi-fi demonstrater's dream, Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits. Now, Mark Knopfler is the world's most finnicky masterer so his recordings are always good. This is the recording as it appears in wave form AIFF 16/44.1 (The software I'm using is Audacity 1.3.12 (in Unicode beta form), a superb tool with massive flexibility.):
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z121/Filterlab/B-I-A-Clean.jpg
As you can see, a good signal presence with acres of all-important headroom.
So, let's destroy it a little. First thing to do is select the entire wave and go for the 'Amplify' option. This option is remarkably efficient for rescuing lost elements of peaky recordings or low-level recordings, it's a powerful option. This pane shows that the absolute maximum level of amplification without any of the amplitude peaks clipping is +0.5dB.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z121/Filterlab/Currentmaxlevel.jpg
But, we're on the quest to make it sound terrible. So, let's wind the level up to +21.9dB. Audacity automatically rejects any increase in level if it will cause the amplitude peaks to clip (thankfully), however one can select the 'Allow Clipping' option. Now this can be a handy option for lifting overall levels at the sake of one clip, and not necessarily damaging to the audio quality, particularly if the frequency of the clip point is around the 1Khz area. But it's unnecessary in general and the automatic rejection is a fantastic weapon against wrecking a recording.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z121/Filterlab/Winditupto219.jpg
Now have a look at the result. A waveform completely void of any peaks and troughs, completely void of any breathing space and completely void of any 'life' and 'character'. On a low-fi playback device (say for example an MP3 player where the tracks are encoded to 128Kbps in a .mp3 format or an FM radio), a waveform with no amplitude variation can sound very snappy, loud and immediate, and it will cut through a noisy environment with relative ease even at modest volume levels. However, on a hi-fi device it will sound painful and shouty.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z121/Filterlab/B-I-A-Clipped.jpg
If you analyse most modern pop recordings you are very likely to see a waveform with all the amplitude peaks cut right off. It's not the fault of the mastering engineers as they are instructed how to make it sound - and no engineer in his right mind would master a recording to make it sound bad! It's not the MP3 generation that's at fault, it's the record companies trying to get their record heard in an increasingly noisy world. Modern recording techniques are incredible, the tools get better and better each year and engineers have more ability to perfect a recording, but the record companies govern the money and direction, and if they don't have a passion for quality, then we don't get it!
Filterlab
18-02-2011, 15:08
As if proof were needed, here is the waveform for Call the Shots by Girls Aloud. Now obviously the girls don't produce their own stuff, in fact this track was written by a production company called Xenomania. They would master a lot better than this if they were left to their own devices, that I don't doubt!
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z121/Filterlab/CalltheShots.jpg
Filterlab
18-02-2011, 15:13
...and here's the waveform for one of my 2007 tracks; Majestic Sunrise Over the Belvedere. A little better than the above form I think you'll agree. :)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z121/Filterlab/MSOTB.jpg
Reid Malenfant
18-02-2011, 15:13
Perhaps they should change their name to Girls Bloody Loud :eyebrows:
No wonder they sound crap he says having not knowing heard them :D
Filterlab
18-02-2011, 16:27
Well, whatever they sound like, they certainly look nice enough. :)
Beechwoods
18-02-2011, 17:31
From Wikipedia:
Of Higgins and Xenomania, Girls Aloud's former manager Louis Walsh says, "He just makes great songs for radio. They just jump out at you and stay in your brain."
It's that 'making a song sound great on the radio' thing again... why they can't leave the compression up to the radio stations I don't know.
Filterlab
18-02-2011, 19:57
I know mate, it's always been fine; song sounds ideal through the radio and when you purchase a copy it sounds great through the hi-fi. Nowt wrong with that! :)
Progress?
chris@panteg
19-02-2011, 18:18
Hi Rob
Good stuff , i was listening to ' Sigh no More ' Mumford and Son's this morning with Wifey , and it sounded like it was heavily limited to me ! have you put that one through audacity ?
DanJennings
20-02-2011, 11:34
Hi Rob
Good stuff , i was listening to ' Sigh no More ' Mumford and Son's this morning with Wifey , and it sounded like it was heavily limited to me ! have you put that one through audacity ?
Not great Chris, but I've seen a lot worse.
This is 'The Cave' if you're interested
http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp125/pogoyen/mumford.jpg
DanJennings
20-02-2011, 11:43
case in point:
Metallica - The End Of The Line (from Death Magnetic)
http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp125/pogoyen/metallica.jpg
Filterlab
22-02-2011, 11:47
Not great Chris, but I've seen a lot worse.
This is 'The Cave' if you're interested
http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp125/pogoyen/mumford.jpg
That's not a bad waveform, a bit clipped towards the end, but at least there's some headroom to speak of.
Hi Rob
Good stuff , i was listening to ' Sigh no More ' Mumford and Son's this morning with Wifey , and it sounded like it was heavily limited to me ! have you put that one through audacity ?
Not got that one mate, but if I had a copy I'd be happy to run it through for you.
DanJennings
22-02-2011, 19:20
That's not a bad waveform, a bit clipped towards the end, but at least there's some headroom to speak of.
Not got that one mate, but if I had a copy I'd be happy to run it through for you.
The Cave is from Sigh No More by Mumford and Sons Rob. :)
chris@panteg
22-02-2011, 23:51
Thanks Dan
Not that bad then , the Metallica track is truly in a class of its own so to speak:rolleyes:
Filterlab
23-02-2011, 08:40
The Cave is from Sigh No More by Mumford and Sons Rob. :)
Ahh, I didn't know that. Still, looks ok on the waveform.
Ahh, I didn't know that. Still, looks ok on the waveform.
I'd agree with that.
There are many steps to address the "loudness wars" out in the world of mastering, however small they may be.
I have a mate who is a mastering engineer and an amazingly good one at that. He is at the mercy of either the band, producer or record label. I run a small digital label putting out drum & bass. We're in a world of heavily limited music to make the tunes stand out in clubs. Everyone is trying to take it that bit further but there has certainly been a move to create less "loud" music in that scene over the recent years I'd say.When I get our artists tunes mastered we try and cut the fine line between keeping dynamics and pushing it loud. It's tough and have comments from DJs that they aren't loud enough but our mastering guy does a fine job of sitting on the fence of dynamics vs loudness. If I ask for it a touch louder he'll say you'll lose frequencies "x" hz in this or that tune.
The extreme cases have been highlighted here but there's a lot of good out there still. Guns & Roses accepted the least loud mastered version of Chinese Democracy a couple of years ago. Baby steps like I say.
We might get back to full dynamics again one day!
Spectral Morn
28-02-2011, 12:12
I'd agree with that.
There are many steps to address the "loudness wars" out in the world of mastering, however small they may be.
I have a mate who is a mastering engineer and an amazingly good one at that. He is at the mercy of either the band, producer or record label. I run a small digital label putting out drum & bass. We're in a world of heavily limited music to make the tunes stand out in clubs. Everyone is trying to take it that bit further but there has certainly been a move to create less "loud" music in that scene over the recent years I'd say.When I get our artists tunes mastered we try and cut the fine line between keeping dynamics and pushing it loud. It's tough and have comments from DJs that they aren't loud enough but our mastering guy does a fine job of sitting on the fence of dynamics vs loudness. If I ask for it a touch louder he'll say you'll lose frequencies "x" hz in this or that tune.
The extreme cases have been highlighted here but there's a lot of good out there still. Guns & Roses accepted the least loud mastered version of Chinese Democracy a couple of years ago. Baby steps like I say.
We might get back to full dynamics again one day!
Thats very interesting :) Good luck with the label.
Regards D S D L
Good luck with the label.
Regards D S D L
Thanks, sadly it's on it's last legs for a number of reasons around normal life, work, lack of love for the music these days etc.
I'd rather sit back and enjoy music now than get so involved like I once was. You can get too single minded when you have too much of a vested interest in it. My mind is nicely open nowadays and all the healthier for it. :D
The Vinyl Adventure
03-03-2011, 23:02
case in point:
Metallica - The End Of The Line (from Death Magnetic)
http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp125/pogoyen/metallica.jpg
nice!
I was thinking "where's the problem?" before I realised the waveform is in blue, not white! :lol:
magiccarpetride
03-03-2011, 23:10
nice!
One way to look at this would be: "hey, I get MORE sound for my money!"
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, and I know this subject has been done to death, but I'd just like to add my support to MCR's original post (Wow MCR, we actually agree on something :lol:). Brickwall Limiting is killing music IMHO.
I came across an interesting blog today, albeit from 2008, which makes for an interesting, if sometimes rather disturbing, read. It's written by a musician and sometime Sound Engineer who appears to be defending the use of Brickwall Limiting. Some of the responses to his initial post are passionate and occasionally beyond passionate, so be warned :eyebrows:
Moozek ~ Pro Audio + Music (http://www.moozek.com/2008/02/03/the-loudness-war-oh-please/)
Sounds like childish bickering. These studio engineers should listen to a early 70s album, a west coast group or a Bowie lp and hang their head in shame.
I bought a Oasis cd form the woollies sale. Thought their was some good tunes on it but it was unlistenable due to brickwall mastering.
Haselsh1
06-10-2011, 07:45
The very worst recording I have ever heard was Vienna by Ultravox when it first came out on CD. On vinyl it was OK but the CD was appalling. Coming more up to date, it has to be the Adelle albums which are pushed to the very edge of distortion. Why oh why do the producers think this is clever...? Also, why do they not reduce the level for vinyl...? This would produce some fabulous vinyl albums of very classy music but no, they are almost totally unplayable.
Audioman
06-10-2011, 15:59
The very worst recording I have ever heard was Vienna by Ultravox when it first came out on CD. On vinyl it was OK but the CD was appalling. Coming more up to date, it has to be the Adelle albums which are pushed to the very edge of distortion. Why oh why do the producers think this is clever...? Also, why do they not reduce the level for vinyl...? This would produce some fabulous vinyl albums of very classy music but no, they are almost totally unplayable.
Have you listened to Adele on vinyl ? The loudness wars is reserved for the CD version. 21 on the black stuff is fine sounding for a modern recording. On the other hand no vinyl release for the last KT Tunstall album 'Tiger Suit' which forced me to buy the almost unlistenable CD. Perhaps record companies may learn to reserve brickwalling for the MP3 download only.
The Black Adder
10-10-2011, 21:19
Oasis - Definitely Maybe I seem to remember was pretty awfully produced. Sounded like it was mastered on a low noise C90.
aquapiranha
10-10-2011, 21:28
oops..
I'm probably going to be slammed here, but I've never owned a copy of Bat Out Of Hell simply because it's such a shit production, even though I love the songs. I'm quite happy to listen to tracks on the radio however where it doesn't seem so bad.
Reid Malenfant
14-10-2011, 20:24
I'm probably going to be slammed here, but I've never owned a copy of Bat Out Of Hell simply because it's such a shit production, even though I love the songs. I'm quite happy to listen to tracks on the radio however where it doesn't seem so bad.
Ok, i'll join the club... I have never owned any because i can't stand it :lol:
Just don't mention the most aptly named band ever....
Status Quo :lolsign: Keep it the same, no sh*t :rolleyes:
I'm probably going to be slammed here, but I've never owned a copy of Bat Out Of Hell simply because it's such a shit production, even though I love the songs. I'm quite happy to listen to tracks on the radio however where it doesn't seem so bad.
No argument from me. It's one of those recordings that sounds worse and worse as your system gets better.
I recently noticed that there appears to be random fades on the Special edition CD. I got so irritated:steam: recently I went out and bought another copy which seems to have the same problem. Has anyone else noticed similar problems:scratch:?
Daev Mawby
Jac Hawk
22-10-2011, 11:09
Oasis - Definitely Maybe I seem to remember was pretty awfully produced. Sounded like it was mastered on a low noise C90.
And that was carried on to Liam's new band "Beady Eye" without doubt the worst sounding recording i've got, bought it on CD and as yet i've still not got past the 1st 2 tracks, how the hell they managed to make it over bright and boomy at the same time astounds me, the sound is also pretty well distorted and severely compressed. Job well done Liam:doh:
My example would be "Queens of the Stone Age"s aptly name "Songs for the Deaf"
Having heard the track "No one knows" several times on the radio, liking the use of the drums etc.... I thought why not give it a try when I came by it on offer in a record store.
Heard the record once... the "No one knows" tracks a couple of times
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