Can this work, Sbooster? [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

WAD62

19-01-2011, 09:19

Hi There,

I was over on the squeezbox forums the other day and spotted a thread about a product called the Sbooster, there seemed to be a great deal of suspicion regarding it's validity.

A lot of you guys on this forum have a great deal of experience & knowledge regarding power supplies and electronics in general, can this be of benefit, or is it nicely marketed 'snake oil'? ;)

The site is; http://www.squeeze-upgrade.com

They're offering two types of products for various devices, Squeezeboxes, rDACS, V-DACs...and more on the way it would seem

1. An Sbooster that is supposed to 'improve' a switch mode power supply :scratch:
2. A linear power supply with an additional Sbooster attached :scratch::scratch:

There's only one review, and that's from a dutch website 'Alpha-Audio'...hmmm :eyebrows:

zanash

19-01-2011, 13:54

I've built a number of linear psu for people with sqb3 mainly ...each has improved the final sound ....

my current unit powering my own sb3 has 75va tranny schottky diodes and 20000uf of smoothing caps ....swapping back to the wall wart ...shows how grainy and unreffined the sound was ...

as to the units you linked too ...I have no idea , butI'd personnly steer clear of switched mode psu as I find the all seem to inject a load of nasties into the music signal ...

now it should not be to difficult to make a swm psu that's silent , you wonder why people don't !

Techno Commander

19-01-2011, 14:04

Shouldnt be too difficult to build a decent regulated (linear) PSU for much more than 50 quid. And thats with a fancy case for it.

Most of the SMPSU bricks, are just a generic power supply. They might be intended for laptops, battery chargers or anything else. I doubt high quality audio was on the original design brief.

SMPSs are becoming common in high end high power pro audio applications. Its taken over 10 years for them to become accepted. Early ones were noisy, but a lot of design work has been done to improve them. Generally though, overall cost hasnt been reduced from similar amps with linear supplies. The savings in weight are considerable though. A SMPSU 5KW amp is likely to save about 20Kg. This soon adds up when you have 4 racks with 4 amps in each.

Reid Malenfant

19-01-2011, 14:23

It might help if we knew what this fabled Sbooster is meant to do :lolsign: Once we have an idea we might be able to judge if it'll work or not :eyebrows:

All i can see is a box with an "S" on it & a wire out each end with a plug & socket attached. It might be some kind of inline filter in which case it's quite possible it could remove or lessen the effect of switching spikes from the SMPS.

But then it might just be a box with an "S" on it & a cable going in one side & out the other :lol:

WAD62

19-01-2011, 14:31

But then it might just be a box with an "S" on it & a cable going in one side & out the other :lol:

That's my concern Mark, along with the general lack of reviews...

They're probably assuming that at £30 people will take a punt regardless, my cash is staying well put...;)

Andy/Zanash

That sounds like a more interesting/economical approach, I suppose one would hear more benefits when using the DAC stage of the SB, as I do in my secondary systems, in my main it just feeds into a standard DAC...

Reid Malenfant

19-01-2011, 15:00

now it should not be to difficult to make a swm psu that's silent , you wonder why people don't !
With older technology it wouldn't have been easy at all, read below ;)

SMPSs are becoming common in high end high power pro audio applications. Its taken over 10 years for them to become accepted. Early ones were noisy, but a lot of design work has been done to improve them.
Modern SMPS control chips that are fitted into these power amps (Mackie FRS series springs to mind) use what is known as resonant (zero voltage) switching. This produces far less noise because there are no big switching spikes as there used to be with older tech. They are also much more efficient due to not needing such massive snubbers all over the place & they tend to be smaller as they have often pushed the switching frequency from 50KHz to over 200KHz in a lot of cases.

The thing is that this technology probably isn't used on small SMPS units as generally the resonant supplies need to be a full bridge design rather than a half bridge or forward or even a flyback converter that is predominanty used for low power stuff.

The smallest full bridge design i have seen (though this was a standard non resonant SMPS) is 750W, anything below this tends to be half bridge. There are exceptions though & i just remembered one. The firm i used to work for supplied resonant full bridge 300W supplies to power Perkin Elmer short arc xenon lamps used in the medical industry as a light source for endoscopes...

HighFidelityGuy

19-01-2011, 15:17

Hmm, I don't really see the point of this for SMPS's. The most it can be is a really good noise suppressor/filter. Now I'm sure adding a filter to the output of a SMPS will improve things but that seems to me like treating the symptom rather than curing the problem at the source. Personally I'd put the £30 towards a good linear supply that doesn't have switching noise in the first place.

As for adding this filter to a good linear supply, well that's a bit different. I'm guessing you'd get different results with different supplies depending on how clean their output was in the first place. So you'd have to try one and decide for yourself. If they did a money back guarantee then there would be no reason not to try but I don't think they do. On a side note I don't like that their terms and conditions anen't in english.

Techno Commander

19-01-2011, 15:27

But then it might just be a box with an "S" on it & a cable going in one side & out the other :lol:

The cynic in me wonders if it just a posh housing for a large ferrite.
Although possibly some simple low pass filter is likely.

WAD62

19-01-2011, 15:33

On a side note I don't like that their terms and conditions anen't in english.

As Dennis Leary would say 'Those damned Dutch...it's like they've got a different word for everything!' ;)

Use Google Chrome it'll translate for you...7 days is all you get and the box must be unmarked...in other words no returns policy unless it's faulty :)

I'll stay well clear for a bit...

WAD62

19-01-2011, 15:45

The cynic in me wonders if it just a posh housing for a large ferrite.
Although possibly some simple low pass filter is likely.

Andy, by large ferrite do you mean those little barrel shaped metallic lumps that one finds wrapped round cables? Or a pole cat? ;)

If it's the former, I have a couple spare from my TV, as they were for the ethernet cable which I don't use, so would I get a marginal improvement if I were to put them on my SB power leads? This is probably wishful thinking (or plane ignorance) on my part :eyebrows:

Reid Malenfant

19-01-2011, 16:17

At a best guess i should imagine there is an inductor & low ESR capacitor in there. SMPS don't tend to like too much external capacitance as it affects the feedback circuit & the transient response of the PSU itself. To filter any more gubbins they could feed it through an inductor & have a capacitor accross the supply output to keep it at a fairly low impedance.. Not ideal as then the output voltage will be more load dependant & some ripple will be generated according to current draw (though this does depend on the value of the inductor).

It could still just be a wire through a box though :lol:

Covenant

19-01-2011, 16:55

I would like to know more about this device too. Soundcheck, the guy who has created the software mods rates it. The mods are well worth doing.
I have just got a decent linear supply (John Swenson design) so I will be seeing what improvement it brings.

Techno Commander

19-01-2011, 17:08

Andy, by large ferrite do you mean those little barrel shaped metallic lumps that one finds wrapped round cables?

Yes
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQU8c6CQixlQGnpFlT_VqMkTylb-AlEuLYgnZTyj-esrcDgeeP-

Or a pole cat? ;}

No
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gCUalDdgQQ8/TNLOHiX6w8I/AAAAAAAAAyo/FsaAp9rAlZQ/s1600/funny-pictures-pole-dancer-cat.jpg

WAD62

19-01-2011, 17:19

Yes

That's the puppy...or kitty for that matter :) (nice photo, looks the spit of my cat spike, well when he was a bit shorter in the tooth)

If I were to put one of those on each of my SB power supply cables would I be doing anything other than err.. decorating?

Reid Malenfant

19-01-2011, 17:47

If I were to put one of those on each of my SB power supply cables would I be doing anything other than err.. decorating?
Try it & see ;) If you happen to have a switch mode PSU it might help suppress switching spikes, on the other hand they are also usefull to remove RFI so either way you won't really lose...

Might make it sound slightly better & it'll have cost you didley squat :eyebrows:

WAD62

19-01-2011, 18:28

Try it & see ;) If you happen to have a switch mode PSU it might help suppress switching spikes, on the other hand they are also usefull to remove RFI so either way you won't really lose...

Might make it sound slightly better & it'll have cost you didley squat :eyebrows:

Cheers Mark, at least it'll get them out of the plastic bag containing my TV manual and warranty...;)

Welder

19-01-2011, 18:30

Ferrites, great on power cables, debatable on data cables, undesirable on analogue interconnect. My opinion of course ;)

WAD62

19-01-2011, 18:38

Ferrites, great on power cables, debatable on data cables, undesirable on analogue interconnect. My opinion of course ;)

Cheers John, as close to the device's power socket as possible I suppose :scratch:

Fi-Wi

19-01-2011, 20:02

As Dennis Leary would say 'Those damned Dutch...it's like they've got a different word for everything!' ;)

Use Google Chrome it'll translate for you...7 days is all you get and the box must be unmarked...in other words no returns policy unless it's faulty :)

I'll stay well clear for a bit...

That's correct, although returnings within 8 days should be covered by their return policy as well. Squeeze-Upgrade should read their own T&C (better):

(...) heeft u als particulier het recht het product binnen zeven (8) werkdagen na aflevering aan Squeeze-upgrade te retourneren."...)

One doesn't have to be able to read Dutch to see that "zeven" is not "8". :doh:

WAD62

20-01-2011, 09:53

That's correct, although returnings within 8 days should be covered by their return policy as well. Squeeze-Upgrade should read their own T&C (better):

One doesn't have to be able to read Dutch to see that "zeven" is not "8". :doh:

Steven,

Jezus Christus...I'm going blind, well spotted!!!

The only dutch I know is from playing football for a dutch team in HK, and is probably not repeatable...;)

Dank u wel :)

WAD62

20-01-2011, 09:57

The cynic in me wonders if it just a posh housing for a large ferrite.
Although possibly some simple low pass filter is likely.

Andy,

One interesting thing is that all of my T-Amps have a ferrite already on the power supply cable, none of my SB devices do...I wonder if you hit the nail on the head with your first guess...:eyebrows:

WAD62

20-01-2011, 14:05

Been up to maplins and picked up 2 of these for my SB receivers (9V) they're on sale till Tuesday apparently...

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-20w-power-supply-32754

at £12 each one can't complain, it's a nice big beefy unit too...still no 5V option (SB3 or touch) but I'll keep my eyes open.

Anyway better than £135 * 2 !!! ;)

Edit; Bang on! A definite improvement, a cleaner sound, brings out more detail...That's about the best value for money upgrade I've made, two systems upgraded for £24!!! :) and I've added my spare ferrites for good luck :eyebrows:

Thanks for your input chaps :cool:

Puffin

20-01-2011, 15:35

see post 8

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8911

Techno Commander

20-01-2011, 15:37

Sounds like you got a result.

Sorry for the pun. :)

WAD62

20-01-2011, 16:45

Sounds like you got a result.

Sorry for the pun. :)

Pun away my friend...

I'm like a bi-penile canine at the moment...:cool:

WAD62

20-01-2011, 17:00

see post 8

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8911

So from that can I assume the ferrite should be at the PSU end, and not the player? :scratch:

Reid Malenfant

20-01-2011, 17:07

It shouldn't really matter ;) If you put it the PSU end it'll help remove switching spikes but then the whole length of power cable could pick up RFI. If it was me i'd put it near the player end as this will get rid of both in theory :)

WAD62

20-01-2011, 17:21

loosend

26-08-2012, 18:50

Has anyone actually used these SBoosters now?
Any opinions?

StanleyB

26-08-2012, 20:53

Has anyone actually used these SBoosters now?
Any opinions?
Yep. It's a very good noise filter.

loosend

26-08-2012, 20:57

Ta Stan, may give one a whirl :)

Stratmangler

27-08-2012, 08:06

This was posted a short while ago

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=345756&postcount=810

loosend

27-08-2012, 11:15

Thanks, now as the line looks flat, I take it that's better?

WAD62

27-08-2012, 11:47

Stratmangler

27-08-2012, 12:07

Thanks, now as the line looks flat, I take it that's better?

The spiky stuff isn't good.
The 5v coming off the SMPS should ideally measure as a flat line, which, as you can see is not the case without the SBooster.
With the SBooster in tow the trace is a lot closer to the theoretical ideal of a flat line.

loosend

27-08-2012, 16:37

I was very sceptical initially...:doh:

But I now firmly believe that the small Sbooster makes a bigger difference than a new PSU.

I've got one for each of my SB players

I still bought the MG Sbooster 'best of both' worlds linear PSU/Sbooster combo out of OCD for my touch, but I noticed more of an improvement from simply adding (borrowing) the Sbooster from my SB3 to the stock SMPS before my MG combo arrived...perhaps because it was 'run in' :eyebrows:
I use an SB3 with Teddy Parso PSU
Wonder if there will be any effect on it with the SBooster as its already regulated to 5v
Does anyone know how much current these are rated for as I would like to use onein the SMPS on my server?