View Full Version : Sick Celestion Countys
A little while ago I bid on and won an lovely pair of Celestion County speakers from the mid 1970's for just over a tenner.
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/HiFi%20Stuff/CelestionCounty1.jpg
Their provenance was excellent. The sellers father had owned them from new and they had been lovingly cherished. The reason for the sale was genuine, the sellers father having lost his hearing to the extent that he could no longer appreciate the sound of his beloved hifi and speakers.
The seller originally had these posted for collection only, but seeing as Bristol is further than I wanted to travel, I persuaded him to ship them via a courier. He chose a courier (who shall remain nameless) which specializes in moving antique furniture and pianos. Shipping worked out at £20, which I considered reasonable considering I got them for a song, and I felt happy that they were being shipped by a professional outfit. This is the condition in which they arrived:
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Celestion%20Damage%20-%20Hermes%20Couriers/CelestionDamageMyHermes7.jpg
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Celestion%20Damage%20-%20Hermes%20Couriers/CelestionDamageMyHermes1.jpg
The drive units, crossovers and grills are in a fabulous condition and I would dearly love to rehouse them in purpose built cabinets. The problem is that my woodworking skills are non-existent which is a slight handicap :lol:
So, to the obvious question: Is there someone on AoS who would be prepared to build a new set of cabs for these fabulous speakers please? I would, of course be prepared to pay for this service, although I couldn't afford anything too exotic...
Thanks
Dave... :)
Can't help with the woodworking Dave but just wanted to commiserate with you - they look like they were mint before the moving muppets got hold of them - criminal! :(
I bet you weren't best pleased... :steam:
I was absolutely gutted Alex, they are sitting in a box in my garage just now. Despite the damage, I've had them hooked up to my system and in many ways I prefer them to my LS55's. The top end and mid-range are bloody gorgeous and although they obviously don't dig out the deep bass the way the Rogers do, what's there is very tuneful and dynamic. The cabinets aren't quite as sturdy as the Ditton equivalents, and are wrapped in vinyl rather than wood veneer, but they look smart none the less. If I can find someone to build some nice cabs for them I might very well swap out the Rogers for the Countys. I'll have to be very careful with the volume control on the Audiolab though as the Hafler would eat them for breakfast if it was used without due diligence... :lolsign:
Techno Commander
18-01-2011, 18:48
Thats terrible.
Is there any recourse against the courier?
Yes Andy. The seller refunded my 30 quid immediately, told me I could keep them and made a successful claim against the courier... ;)
Myself and the seller were in constant contact throughout and he really appreciated the fact that I was as upset for his Dad as he was... :eyebrows:
Despite the tragic circumstances, I can honestly say that this was one of the smoothest transactions I've experienced on eBay, the guy was a real Gent.
Reid Malenfant
18-01-2011, 18:56
Dave, i might be able to make some cabinets for you, however it'd be up to you to put some kind of finish on them ;)
I build all my speaker enclosures out of MDF, i'd be more than willing to help when i actually can (no room at the inn right now) but you'd be getting plain MDF enclosures with recesses for the drivers & any filling etc done. I doubt very much that i'd be able to get that edge round the front baffle but on the other hand i can rout all the edges to round each edge off which aids diffraction...
Up to you chap, i might be able to help later on this year..
Rare Bird
18-01-2011, 19:19
Thats a shame Dave.. :(
Dave, i might be able to make some cabinets for you, however it'd be up to you to put some kind of finish on them ;)
I build all my speaker enclosures out of MDF, i'd be more than willing to help when i actually can (no room at the inn right now) but you'd be getting plain MDF enclosures with recesses for the drivers & any filling etc done. I doubt very much that i'd be able to get that edge round the front baffle but on the other hand i can rout all the edges to round each edge off which aids diffraction...
Up to you chap, i might be able to help later on this year..
That would be fantastic Mark, thank you very much. I'm not bothered about having them restored to their original condition mate, just want some cabs to replace the damaged ones... :cheers:
Techno Commander
18-01-2011, 19:36
Glad the financials managed to get sorted for all concerned.
Marks MDF boxes may well be an improvement on the originals. Certainly a lot more dense and less resonant. You could get "artistic" with the finish. :)
Reid Malenfant
18-01-2011, 19:39
:cool: Might as well make them sound better than what they do as standard :eyebrows: Take it from me, it wouldn't be difficult ;)
As i say though i won't be able to tackle them until later on in the year :( We can discuss what you'd like nearer the time...
Glad the financials managed to get sorted for all concerned.
Marks MDF boxes may well be an improvement on the originals. Certainly a lot more dense and less resonant. You could get "artistic" with the finish. :)
I was thinking the same. Hmmm, how about a US Desert Camo paint job? :lol:
As i say though i won't be able to tackle them until later on in the year. We can discuss what you'd like nearer the time...
That's fine Mark, I'm not in a hurry mate. You have more experience than me with cab design, so I'll bow to your judgement as to how they look. I'll pop 'em over as soon as you give me the nod... :respect:
Reid Malenfant
18-01-2011, 20:16
If you want to see the kind of finish i give to my own speakers click "Main System" in my signature & scroll down...
I could possibly do that for you as well as build the things ;)
We can discuss this nearer the time though...
As it is that pathetic excuse for a reflex port needs to be a lot bigger, i bet that causes soooo much turbulence :rolleyes:
Techno Commander
18-01-2011, 20:22
I was thinking of an "urban graffiti" look.
http://image.lowriderarte.com/f/24769226+w750+st0/lrap_0909_03_z+graffiti_artist_bader_israel+art.jp g
Man, that's so rad innit... :smoking:
Which reminds me - what's happened to Tim/MAD on here? They were doing some pretty leery designs...
http://www.madengland.com/homepages/4/d253727295/htdocs/userfiles/image/rsinnerpage(1).jpg (http://www.madengland.com/catalog.loudspeaker.php)
Rare Bird
18-01-2011, 23:08
That would be fantastic Mark, thank you very much. I'm not bothered about having them restored to their original condition mate, just want some cabs to replace the damaged ones... :cheers:
If your carefull you should be able to get those Baffle boards out when you take the cabinets apart save a lot of work.
Jac Hawk
18-01-2011, 23:29
That's a real shame mate, i would go along with Andre as far as trying to remove the baffle boards, it will save a lot of work, now may i suggest that if you want to get a really good finish on your new cabs, try to get some real wood vaneer http://www.woodveneeruk.co.uk/products.php?cat=14 it's dead easy to apply and finish and your cab's will retain their original wooden look
Rare Bird
18-01-2011, 23:36
Yeh those baffle boards should sit in a machined groove.construction of the cabinet holds them in place.
Ali Tait
19-01-2011, 08:39
Dave, I know someone who could build you some excellent cabs. He builds a lot of speakers including horn designs, so simple boxes like those would be a doddle for him. He can use any wood and/or veneer you want. Check out the photos on this thread for an example of his work-
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7848
PM me if you'd like to to talk to him and I'll put you in touch.
Bad luck concerning the speakers Dave although if you are prepared to put in the time and effort it could be a blessing in disguise.
I may as well state this now; I wouldn’t have an MDF anything, let alone an MDF speaker cabinet. The reason manufacturers use MDF is it’s cheap and easy to machine.
Why don’t you take this opportunity to build your own cabinets?
It really isn’t difficult to build a simple driver enclosure. You have the volume and the details for the driver arrangement with regard to baffle dimensions.
You could probably build a decent enclosure with a fine toothed saw (floorboard saw for example) a hand drill and a screwdriver; more or less.
Provided you can get two faces to size and square (baffle and back are favorite) the rest is pretty easy.
It could be a great opportunity to learn and produce something that will outperform anything you are likely to buy at the price
The County's I remember had the HF1300, so these are from the same era of Marco's Ditton 15XR's (mid, rather than early 70's).
Can the existing boxes not be repaired? It looks as though it's the flange at the front which has been split and it may just be possible to rescue this and re-form it, although without re-veneering, you will have a scar.
Just my thoughts - and as with Marco's 15XR's, a recap would be to advantage :)
I'll go with Marks cabs I reckon Dave. They should be a lot more sturdy, I can play around with the finish once they're built and I'm sure they will sound a lot better than the original cabs... ;)
I'm with you on recapping. I can do that in the time I've got until Mark can build them. In fact, I may look into replacing the X-overs altogether and also exchange the original speaker terminals for good quality modern ones. Is there any point going for bi-wireable terminals?
Is there any point going for bi-wireable terminals?
Probably only if you are going to bi-amp them at some point. I think most people now agree that bi-wiring is a waste of money?
All righty then, in that case I'll stick to standard binding posts. my Hafler can deliver upwards of 170wpc peak, so by itself it could comfortably fry the poor Countys... :lol:
Rare Bird
19-01-2011, 18:11
The County's I remember had the HF1300, so these are from the same era of Marco's Ditton 15XR's (mid, rather than early 70's).
Nop that particular pair are the end of the 70's as they will be branded Celestion International if he looks around the back
Brownie points to Andre... :clap: :lol:
Jac Hawk
19-01-2011, 20:56
I may as well state this now; I wouldn’t have an MDF anything, let alone an MDF speaker cabinet. The reason manufacturers use MDF is it’s cheap and easy to machine.
Sorry mate you're not quite right, well not entirly anyway, the reason manufacturers use MDF is that it has a uniform desity so that speakers will always sound the same, if you used real wood you may find the different batches of wood had different densities therefore the characteristics of the cab would be changed, which you would hear, also you have problems of real wood warping and spliting too. like you said MDF is cheap and easy to work with so that is also a factor, but in my opinion MDF is used because the manufacturer wants to recreate the speaker over and over again, being cheap material is just a bonus
The Grand Wazoo
19-01-2011, 21:42
I'd strongly disagree with that assumption. The bottom line is king in this case I think. Before the advent of MDF, the material of choice was chipboard - hardly the most resistant to splitting or to the effects of moisture.
If you want to see the kind of finish i give to my own speakers click "Main System" in my signature & scroll down...
I could possibly do that for you as well as build the things ;)
We can discuss this nearer the time though...
As it is that pathetic excuse for a reflex port needs to be a lot bigger, i bet that causes soooo much turbulence :rolleyes:
I missed this post somehow... :scratch:
I've no idea about turbulence Mark, I don't get a "Fasten Seatbelts" sign light up when I'm using 'em, if that's what you mean? :lolsign:
As you can probably tell, I'm a complete ignoramus when it comes to speaker design. I tend go with peoples recommendations, then go have a listen for myself and if I like what I hear, and they look half decent, I'm in. That approach doesn't always work however: I bought some Mission 773's last year because I had listened to a pair a fair few years ago on a Linn LP12/Naim system at a HiFi show. I remember being impressed at the time, but after hooking them up to my system it became obvious pretty quickly that they weren't suited to it. However, I gathered up a NAD C340 and a CDP from an ancient Sony Mini System and set it all up in my kitchen, of all places, so I could demonstrate the 773's to the guy who won them from me on eBay and f*ck me, that little combo rocked. Go figure... :scratch:
I'm diggin' your Yammy cabs btw, do they taper towards the rear? I think the finish will need to be a bit more contemporary though to keep Mrs 'S' onside ;) I wondered whether it might be an idea to move the port to the rear of the cabs to tidy up the baffle?
I don’t agree with you on this one Will.
If for example high density chipboard was prone to splitting I doubt it would be used as flooring for example. You don’t see MDF structural flooring.
Chipboard is reasonably good at not absorbing moisture and being grain less, doesn’t exhibit the same tendency to warp that wood does.
Solid wood does require some care in sealing and grain orientation but some solid wood furniture for example seems to have survived for centuries.
Marine ply doesn’t tend to warp or split.
The thing is, two of the above, marine ply and chipboard are much more difficult to machine than MDF and solid wood is much more expensive.
You seem to be a very positive view of the producers of mass market speakers. I don’t.
Frankly mate, I doubt if many even think about matched cabinets sonically let alone putting matched components in the boxes, it’s far to expensive.
Reid Malenfant
20-01-2011, 15:43
I can just about do whatever you like Dave ;) Yes the port can be moved to the back or it could exit out the bottom if i happened to make a built in stand for them :eyebrows:
That port is tiny chap. I'm hazarding a guess that what they have done is put the driver in an enclosure that is a lot smaller than the drivers VAS parameter would normally dictate. What that does is lowers the port Q (or output if you like) & spreads the ports influence over a wider bandwidth.
What that means is it may well be possible to get a lot better performance (in deep bass) if the bass driver gets a bigger enclosure. I wouldn't know this unless i measured the bass driver parameters though. In which case if you fancied some floorstanders you might be in luck ;)
The whole lot can easily be modelled though so you can see what you'll end up with in any scenario of enclosure volume.
The enclosures on my rebuilt Yamahas don't taper towards the back, believe it or not there is a 12" bass driver inside those enclosures. The enclosure walls are 1.5" thick & the whole thing is only 13" wide :eyebrows:
I've made a few box /horn and open baffle speakers.. mdf seems to me to have a rather flat tone, and in all my experiments /cabs i usually prefer heavy chipboard to ply, i made one pair of baffles from some 25 m hardwood ply, it cost a fortune, to me there where no sonic improvements over 25m chipboard
that may not be everyones findings..
if they where my speakers, i would glue , clamp and fill that damage, then paint or recover them with something ( one of the nicer fablons?)
Ok, first off let me state that I'm really not interested in returning the County's to their original condition. From what Mark seems to be hinting at, these drivers might be capable of so much more if given the space to breath, so I'm happy to run with that. My preference would be for Birch Ply as a material for the cabs, but it's damned expensive so MDF will do just fine. For instance, my Rogers LS55's are great sounding speakers but unusually for Rogers, the cabinet construction is quite flimsy and they are finished in cheap, mahogany effect vinyl wrap so consequently they look a little naff. I heard a pair of LS55's in my system recently that have been rehoused in custom Oak veneered MDF cabinets which are a touch narrower and taller, but about half as deep again as the original cabs and they absolutely sang. They bettered mine in every respect probably because the cabs are solidly braced and built like tanks. The chap bought them from a car boot sale last summer and he paid 40 quid for them. The cabs were a little tatty but he has since spruced them up and now they look absolutely fabulous. I'm green with envy and I've offered to buy them off him several times but he's not selling. Can't say I blame him... :steam:
Go for the birch ply ffs, two layers preferably with bitumen sheet inbtween :ner:
There are loads of boomy, floppy, badly braced, pretty looking boxes out there.
Give Mark a chance to build you some speaker emclosures instead.
(If I could move mine I could let you hear what a properly made cabinet with some decent drivers in sound like :-p)
Reid Malenfant
20-01-2011, 19:54
John, i don't build crappy boomy flapping skirts enclosures :lolsign:
Take it from me that i'm sure Dave will be more than happy with what he ends up with. I don't even know about the bass driver yet so have no idea about the enclosure. After all that's what the enclosure is all about in this case innit :eyebrows: The tweeter has a solid back called a polepiece :eyebrows:
I wouldn't use bitumen between panels by the way, dry sand would be better as anything vibrating it would be snuffed out due to all the individual particals ;)
Anyway, this is still a way away so lets not get too excited - yet :lol:
:cool:
Ah, I forgot to mention the secret ingredient; a coating of Dum Dum each side of the bitumen sheet ;)
http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8317&frostProductName=DUM%20DUM%20Sealing%20Compound%20 %28400g%29
Seriously though Dave, I reckon Mark could build you some excellent enclosures if you don’t tie his hands with the More Dreadful Fabric stipulation :doh:
It'll all come down to resources in the end John, I'm registered disabled so funds are limited mate. I'm sure Mark's cabs will do the job judging by the solid looking cabs clothing his Yams... ;)
Jac Hawk
20-01-2011, 22:09
I'd strongly disagree with that assumption. The bottom line is king in this case I think. Before the advent of MDF, the material of choice was chipboard - hardly the most resistant to splitting or to the effects of moisture.
Once again chipboard is a manmade product and again it has a regular uniform density, which is ideal for making cabs out of, now i'm not saying that price doesn't come in to it, but it's not the main factor, look at real high end speakers costing thousands of pounds, what are the cabs made of ? usually MDF or Chipboard, and why ? because it's always the same, unlike real wood, where no two pieces are exactly the same and so may affect the sound produced by the speaker, anyway to finish with i'll pose this question.
If you were a manufacture of hi end speakers and you made thousands of pairs a year, what material would you use for your cabs that would insure that every speaker you made sounded the same?
Mark, you have a PM... ;)
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