View Full Version : What Speakers Would you Suggest for me?
Following on from another comment in another thread, I thought I'd hypothetically ask the question in readiness for any readies suddenly materialising!
Dave DSJR is the only person on here who has heard my system, and feels it would benefit from new and better speakers. He knows a thing or two about hifi, so I can't disagree with him (though I would add that I have been very happy with my Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo 3's - but accept that they are the cheapest component in my system and could easily be bettered.)
OK, then - some requirements: Apart from sound (obviously) the number one requirement would be stability - my little 'un has knocked one over before (luckily without damage to either the speaker or her) - I don't give a monkeys about the kit but do about my daughter! So for this reason, I would assume stand-mounts would be out? My gut-feeling is that floorstanders are more stable (and I will be looking at making some "outriggers" if necessary to add more stability.) Does anyone disagree? Are there standmounters that are just as stable? (bolt onto the stands, maybe?)
Second requirement is that the speakers need to be reasonably domestically acceptable - this isn't "WAF" as my better half has always been very accommodating, but my requirement as I do like my kit to fit in with the surroundings - so no Electrostatics or bloody great horns, and open baffles are probably out.
The room is 18' x 12' and the speakers will stay in the same position as they are here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=158947&postcount=29):
I usually keep them against the wall when not in use or for background listening and move them into this position for listening on my own so they also musn't be too heavy! The plan at the moment is to change the flooring to "Engineered Wood" with a 8' x 6' rug in the middle of the room - so I'm also likely to use Soundcare SuperSpikes (http://www.soundcare.no/) for feet as they will be moved around and a spike cup solution would be too fiddly.
I'm happy to go second-hand to save a few pennies, and I guess with the rest of my system being pretty modest it would be silly to spend more than £500 or so? If it would make a big difference then I guess I could go a bit more but probably a maximum of £750. Obviously if there is a hidden gem out there for £100 that will better my current speakers that would be fantastic!
My own thoughts in the past have been second-hand Spendor S5E and Dali Suite 2.8 (was very tempted by Shaun's that he sold bar the travelling...) and Monitor Audio Silver RX6 look gorgeous and are getting great reviews (though I don't think MA have many fans here...?) to name but 3.
So over to you folks - what would you suggest? Might just give me the motivation to divert the money from somewhere! (I've never won anything with my premium bonds anyway!)
Techno Commander
17-01-2011, 16:33
Admittedly, its pushing your budget a bit. But there is some room for haggling over price.
I would want these PMCs (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PMC-LB1-SPEAKERS-MATCHED-PAIR-BLACK-GRILLS-BEST-SOUND-/170588178886?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item27b7d909c6) if spending 750+ (ish)
Reid Malenfant
17-01-2011, 16:45
Celestion Ditton 66 :) They are floorstanding, not too heavy to move & the front grille has a nice handy steel mesh behind it to keep grubby little fingers off of the drive units.
As well as that they go deep & are easy to drive, the only negative thing is they aren't cheap secondhand :eyebrows: There are a couple of pairs on the bay right now ;)
technobear
17-01-2011, 16:59
You need a PA speaker :)
Think about it! PA speakers don't follow the tall and thin 'speakerette' fashion of hifi. They tend to be dumpy and heavy so won't be knocked over easily (if at all).
They can be had with metal grills so inquisitive little fingers can't go poking tweeters and such.
They can also be had on castors so easy to pull out when you want to use them.
Further, they tend to be sensitive which gives them a life-like open and fast sound that is quite addictive once heard.
What's not to like :eyebrows:
Hi Alex,
If you're serious about buying new speakers, if were you, I'd snap these babies up:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Leema-Acoustics-Xone-Loudspeakers-Walnut-NEW-/180610173095?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item2a0d3488a7
Leema speakers are voiced very 'realistically', without the unnatural emphasis at the top-end of many modern speakers, but without being in any way dull or boring. They are a genuinely class act.
The Xone's have excellent bass for their size, boogie like a b*stard, are built beautifully. But best of all, you're getting £1850 worth of top-notch speakers for £699!!!!! :eek:
I can also give some vintage recommendations, if you wish.
Marco.
The Vinyl Adventure
17-01-2011, 17:07
there is a certain chap selling a pair of Heco Celan 700 speakers i think you once showed an interest in once alex ...
im not sure im allowed to link to that other forum??
erm ... neutral ground maybe? - http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92182
I also see if these are still for sale http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/2332
They are really quite good and very underated, speak to Hifidelityguy he has my old pair I only got rid of them as I perfer open baffles and do not have to compromise.
John
Thanks for the suggestions so far chaps - lots of diversity as I expected!
I have to say Marco's suggestion so far is my fave - but you're right Hamish I did hanker after the Heco's... None of the options are out yet though, even the PA speakers!
Keep 'em coming chaps, cheers!
Hi Hamish,
there is a certain chap selling a pair of Heco Celan 700 speakers i think you once showed an interest in once alex ...
im not sure im allowed to link to that other forum??
erm ... neutral ground maybe? - http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=92182
No problem linking to Audio Future, but the ad I would believe is the same on pfm :)
I've already commented on Steve's Hecos, so won't repeat myself again. However, what I would say is that, given what you're using just now, Alex, I'm sure they'd be a significant upgrade (and they're certainly minty mint and have been well looked after - I can vouch for that).
It just depends on what you're used to, sonically... TBH, at £550 they're a bloody bargain!! :cool:
Marco.
So far I like John's suggestion of the Wharfedale Opus 3 - mid range domes and proper sized bass drivers not those piddly little 4'' things on the Leemas :eyebrows:
33 kilo each too so you will build up your physique pushing them about Alex:)
If you fancy a trip to the Audio Jumble in a few weeks time you might pick up something, i have a pair of Kef 105.3 which i can take, you are welcome take them home and to try them out, they have a good following but are quite large and heavy, its a shame you didn't post a few weeks ago i could of delivered to your door for a try out on new years eve.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8292
So far I like John's suggestion of the Wharfedale Opus 3 - mid range domes and proper sized bass drivers not those piddly little 4'' things on the Leemas :eyebrows:
33 kilo each too so you will build up your physique pushing them about Alex:)
Lol! It's not like me to recommend speakers with "piddly little" drivers, is it? :eyebrows:
If Alex can find some Opus 3s, then go for it. However, I recommended the Leemas because:
A) They're brand new speakers at less than half-price.
B) If Alex were to buy them and sold them on later, he'd be unlikely to lose any money.
C) The cabinets are built like brick shithouses (yes, inert as f*ck!), and are secured on very solid and heavy plinths, so his little avatar wouldn't be able to budge them.
D) "Piddly little" drivers, or not, they punch hard and have pretty effortless scale for their size, due to how they've been designed.
E) They're voiced by people who know what live music sounds like.
F) They're beautifully made, unobtrusive, and would act as lovely bits of furniture, as well as sounding fab.
All in all, I think that they fit the brief Alex set rather well ;)
Marco.
P.S Jon's KEFs are a very tasty option, though!
Reid Malenfant
17-01-2011, 18:34
OOOOoooohhh, the Kef 105/3 3462
If it was me it'd be those & no doubt about it :eyebrows:
I’m not going to suggest a make or model Alex because if anything is going to alter the sound you are used to its speakers.
What I would say, from what I have gathered about your musical tastes is speakers that suit classical or jazz for example are not necessarily great for rock and pop (my opinion here)
There are very few speakers (imo again) that can cover all genres with the same degree of musicality.
Having rugrat invasions here frequently and having Sunny who just wont accept that “things” are meant to be circumnavigated rather than bulldozed out of the way I reduced my stress levels immensely by making hard fronted speaker grills using ¼ ply which I then painted and fixed with tamperproof twist and lock fixings.
I’m sure the missus could come up with a material covering if painting isn’t aesthetically acceptable :eyebrows:
They’re not difficult to make and are worth the outlay just for the peace of mind.
Something on the lines of the above might widen your options.
Another thing to consider is while Marco’s suggestion would no doubt give you nice speakers, what you’ll get is a tall lightweight tower which unless you bolt it down will get knocked over by avatar at some point if she’s anything like my lot :doh:
You can make standmounters virtually impossible to knock over by filling the stands with sand (a good idea anyway) and screwing the speakers to the stands from the underside.
OOOOoooohhh, the Kef 105/3 3462
If it was me it'd be those & no doubt about it :eyebrows:
Would they match the creek amp, though? -they are going to be a bitch of a load across the bass - only one way to find out...
Incidentally John if Alex is not interested and you intend to sell 'em can I have first dibs?
Hi John,
Another thing to consider is while Marco’s suggestion would no doubt give you nice speakers, what you’ll get is a tall lightweight tower which unless you bolt it down will get knocked over by avatar at some point if she’s anything like my lot
You must not have read my earlier post properly... Whilst the Leemas may not be as heavy as Jon's KEFs, I can assure you they are FAR from being "tall lightweight towers". They are pretty heavy for their size, and the plinths supplied really anchor the speakers to the floor.
Looks can sometimes be deceptive! ;)
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
17-01-2011, 18:57
Would they match the creek amp, though? -they are going to be a bitch of a load across the bass - only one way to find out...
On the contrary, they have conjugate load matching so present a very flat load impedance right accross the whole frequency spectrum ;) No nasty peaks & dips to upset anything :)
On the contrary, they have conjugate load matching so present a very flat load impedance right accross the whole frequency spectrum ;) No nasty peaks & dips to upset anything :)
That surprises me but I bow to your superior knowledge:)
I have HFR review from when they first came out - Chris Frankland liked them - with reservations.
Reid Malenfant
17-01-2011, 19:04
Never heard of him :eyebrows: I guess the same could be said of all speakers no? Nothing is perfect ;)
What about kits. Alex? Good value for money there plus you could mass load the bottom of the cab so it cannot topple and fit castors for moving them about. Depends on your woodworking skills though, and then there is the WAF to consider...
Ah, sry Marco, wasn’t knocking your suggestion as such. It’s just they are rather tall and comparatively light in weight (phew, didn’t mean lightweight in performance honest)
At 850mm tall that’s well within 3 to 4 year old tug and shift range and at 15kg that’s considerably less than bodyweight at that age, never mind added velocity :eek:
Sure - it also depends on how well they're spiked into the floor... I guess that with a wooden floor, which Alex is planning on fitting, what you're saying would be more of an issue than if they were firmly planted into a thick carpet :)
However, it would be up to Alex to keep the little tyke under (some) sort of control! ;)
Marco.
Techno Commander
17-01-2011, 19:54
Those Hecos look good.
What about kits. Alex? Good value for money there plus you could mass load the bottom of the cab so it cannot topple and fit castors for moving them about. Depends on your woodworking skills though, and then there is the WAF to consider...
Would love to, but in all honesty I don't have the skills, tools or time, so isn't going to happen... Mass-loading an existing speaker or adding an extra heavy/wide bass or outrigger arrangement should be doable if needed, but no way would I take on a kit just at the moment.
Good suggestion though!
Just to add to the Opus 3 The finish on these are stunning I heard a lot of speakers around the £2000 to £4000 before going for them and they performed very high indeed. Great bass but they need an amp with lots of control to get the best out of the bass. They arey good and if the link is still speakers for sale well worth it But where they excel in is the mid some people might also want a morr revealing treble, no harsh highs here for sure Seriosly underated speakers
Would love to, but in all honesty I don't have the skills, tools or time, so isn't going to happen... Mass-loading an existing speaker or adding an extra heavy/wide bass or outrigger arrangement should be doable if needed, but no way would I take on a kit just at the moment.
Good suggestion though!
I try, mate, I try:)
For what it's worth I don't spike my speakers at all they just sit on a carpeted concrete floor - they are 28kg each they don't go anywhere even if I blunder into them in the dark after getting in from the pub.:doh:
But if I want to adjust position I can shove them around easy enough (acompanied by a little grunting and swearing, naturally).
Just recalled one of the trade chaps posted just recently offering a pair of electrostartic hybrids (10'' bass driver) not sure if they were Martin Logans some trade in he took - though about buying them myself - they would be a one hell of an upgrade and no visible drive units to poke in
For what it's worth I don't spike my speakers at all they just sit on a carpeted concrete floor - they are 28kg each they don't go anywhere even if I blunder into them in the dark after getting in from the pub.:doh:
But if I want to adjust position I can shove them around easy enough (acompanied by a little grunting and swearing, naturally).
Lol! You should try living with some genuinely heavy speakers, such as Martin T's Ushers, which weigh something ridiculous like 125kg each!!! :eek:
My CDP is only 8kg lighter than your speakers!! :eyebrows: ;)
The Lockwoods are 45kg each, but are on castors - thank f*ck....!
Marco.
Thanks Jon & John - the KEFs do look seriously nice, and I did see them when they first went up, but I thought they'd probably be too big for my room. More food for thought though, ta - the laugh of New Year was that I was actually down South near you for New Year and if I'd known I could have taxi-serviced at least part of the way for your relatives! Oh well! I'l have a think about the speakers.
John - the link to Superfi for the Opus 3 says discontinued? :scratch: Certainly doesn't have a price on the page? Wonder if you are getting a cachéd view on your pooter?
Lol! You should try living with some genuinely heavy speakers, such as Martin T's Ushers, which weigh something ridiculous like 125kg each!!! :eek:
My CDP is only 8kg lighter than your speakers!! :eyebrows: ;)
The Lockwoods are 45kg each, but are on castors - thank f*ck....!
Marco.
Yeah they are match boxes compared to what I consider is necessary to really do the job properly, no way I can win that pissing contest;)
Reid Malenfant
17-01-2011, 20:52
The Lockwoods are 45kg each, but are on castors - thank f*ck....!
Is that all? :eek: Holy crap, even my small homemade Yam 4 ways weigh in at over 10 stone each with the drivers fitted (140lbs or 63Kgs) :eyebrows: Only 36L internal volume this way...
Obviously not the most structurally rigid enclosures out there if they are 320L each. You need better enclosures Marco :lol:
Is that with amp packs inside?
Lol, I know what you're saying, but they work superbly well (you have to remember that the cabinets are over 50 years old!) :)
I think Ian Walker's Canterburys, with 15" drivers are 'only' 65kg each - and those are £15k new!
Marco.
Is that all? :eek: Holy crap, even my small homemade Yam 4 ways weigh in at over 10 stone each with the drivers fitted (140lbs or 63Kgs) :eyebrows: Only 36L internal volume this way...
Obviously not the most structurally rigid enclosures out there if they are 320L each. You need better enclosures Marco :lol:
I could be wrong but I think Lockwood did use to offer a granite enclosure - of course if Marco went for that option if he moves to Wynn Hall he will have to leave the speakers for the new owners:lol:
Reid Malenfant
17-01-2011, 21:02
Is that with amp packs inside?
No, the amplifiers are external, by the way i wasn't taking the stands into the equation & filled with sand they add a good 3 stone :doh:
Seriously Marco, i'd be looking at upgraded enclosures for those 15" Tannoys :)
You'd be blown away by the difference imo ;)
Apologies for the slight thread drift :eyebrows:
Seriously Marco, i'd be looking at upgraded enclosures for those 15" Tannoys :)
You'd be blown away by the difference imo
Lol - noooooooooooo.... They're a classic design, dude (in terms of their shape and loading), so I wouldn't risk touching them :)
Hey, if they were good enough for Abbey Road studios to use when mixing the original Beatles and Stones albums, then I guess they'll 'do' for me! ;)
Best get back to Alex's speaker dilemma.... :cool:
Marco.
Lol - noooooooooooo.... They're a classic design, dude (in terms of their shape and loading), so I wouldn't risk touching them :)
Hey, if they were good enough for Abbey Road studios to use when mixing the original Beatles and Stones albums, then I guess they'll 'do' for me! ;)
Best get back to Alex's speaker dilemma.... :cool:
Marco.
If someone can find me a pair of Lockwoods like Marco's for £750 I'll put up with the "flimsy" cabinets! :lol:
If someone can find me a pair of Lockwoods like Marco's for £750 I'll put up with the "flimsy" cabinets! :lol:
i think Andy recommended you try PA speakers a couple of posts back:lolsign:
Currently weighing in at 76kg without stands and 108kg with :lol:
Sack barrow job :(
If someone can find me a pair of Lockwoods like Marco's for £750 I'll put up with the "flimsy" cabinets! :lol:
Hehehehe... Big Ears Audio currently has a pair for £3500 (factor in another £800 for crossover mods, and yer away) - cheap as chips, shweety! ;)
Marco.
mmm this is an interesting thread, thanks for starting it off Alex.
I still have a vacancy after selling the PMCs and those Leemas look interesting. For a third of the list price they've got to be a good deal.
I've been keeping an eye out for older Harbeth Compact 7s and ProAc studio 100s, but the buggers are as rare as a Leyton Orient away win.
I may have to give them a demo. Marco, in your view how would they compare and would my Sugden A21a drive them ok? They are rated at 87.5 dB.
Simon
Check these out!!!
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=179903&posted=1#post179903
Sorry Alex, thats not particularly helpful is it :rolleyes:
No Ian, very helpful, I'm ordering 3 sets! :)
Marco, in your view how would they compare and would my Sugden A21a drive them ok?
Hi Simon,
I've not heard the Proacs, so couldn't compare the two. Your Sugden should be fine for the job, though.
However, as it's Sevenoaks in Brighton selling the Leemas, perhaps you could take your amp along and demo it with them - or is Brighton a bit too far away? :)
Marco.
No Ian, very helpful, I'm ordering 3 sets! :)
Problem solved!!!! Glad to have been of assistance! ;)
Dare I say it......Focal 7 & 8 series come up pretty cheap on eBay fairly regularly. I've rewired my 716's with 4TC and put Mundorf's in the xovers and they sound a million dollars. Much better than you'd think.
The only thing I'd say about them is that you need to listen to them 1st because they can sound a bit forward if you're not careful.
If they work with your system, they are exceptional VFM. Very accurate and tight.
However, as it's Sevenoaks in Brighton selling the Leemas, perhaps you could take your amp along and demo it with them - or is Brighton a bit too far away?
Not too far. I am hatching a plan to escape (with the A21a) before the wife and little screamer wake up...;)
Certainly noticed the Focals, good looking too... definitely worth adding to the mix, thanks.
Not too far. I am hatching a plan to escape (with the A21a) before the wife and little screamer wake up...;)
Hehehe - love it, and good luck! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Here ya go, Alex (if your not already sold on the Beng:lol:) - if Avatar pushes
these things they will push back
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/tannoy-lancasters-with15-dual-concentrics-/300512451931?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item45f7f01d5b
Lol! Trouble is, they'll be awful, because Lancaster cabs are WAY too small for 15" Tannoy DCs.....
It's worth it for the drivers and crossovers, though! Then get Speedy Steve to make some nice 200-250 litre cabs for Alex which will match with his new wooden floor ;)
Marco.
Lol! Trouble is, they'll be awful, because Lancaster cabs are WAY too small for 15" Tannoy DCs.....
It's worth it for the drivers and crossovers, though! Then get Speedy Steve to make some nice 200-250 litre cabs for Alex which will match with his new wooden floor ;)
Marco.
I'm tempted myself TBH - and also by these -
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CELESTION-7000-LOUDSPEAKERS-SPEAKERS-RIBBON-TWEETERS-/250756855349?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item3a6245f635
gotta stop looking at ebay
Here ya go, Alex (if your not already sold on the Beng:lol:) - if Avatar pushes
these things they will push back
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/tannoy-lancasters-with15-dual-concentrics-/300512451931?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item45f7f01d5b
Sure they sound great... But maybe a face only a mother could love!? :lol
Rare Bird
18-01-2011, 03:09
Can't see the young un shifting a pair of Kef 105.2 misen
Exterminate
Yes they are discontinued but do not let that put you off if they still have them these are serious speakers but somehow doubt they still do. The new version is just a bit brighter in the treble its just a question of what you perfer. As my system improved they would show every improvement when I had them with the SAC Glowmaster they sounded very impressive but that valve amp can really control deep bass. I had no intention of changing them until I heard decent open baffles
The Grand Wazoo
18-01-2011, 06:29
Somehow Alex, something in the back of my mind has you pegged for a Sonus Faber owner. Don't ask why - I dunno!
Probably highly unlikely that SF's could meet you brief, though.
Somehow Alex, something in the back of my mind has you pegged for a Sonus Faber owner. Don't ask why - I dunno!
Probably highly unlikely that SF's could meet you brief, though.
It iz cuz I iz bling, innit!
Yes, I can see me being a SF owner too, but as you say I reckon I will struggle with current requirements and budget I think.
Andre - they're even uglier than the Tannoys! A few quid over my budget I dare say, too...
John - I don't think Superfi have them, but may well check with them. Can't find much about them but they do look very nice... Thanks again.
Reid Malenfant
18-01-2011, 11:14
Here ya go, Alex (if your not already sold on the Beng:lol:) - if Avatar pushes
these things they will push back
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/tannoy-lancasters-with15-dual-concentrics-/300512451931?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item45f7f01d5b
Martin, i questioned that seller about the drivers previously as i was looking for a specific driver pair. He took a look inside the cabinets & let me know what drivers they actually were. He also let it be known that he'd sell the drivers & crossovers cheaper without the enclosures ;)
Just thought i'd let you know seeing as you might be interested :)
Well that's something, Mark, as the cabinets are to all intents and purposes useless with those drive units.
What drivers were they, HPDs?
Martin, if you do go for it, one word of warning I'd give you is that those types of drivers with the Tulip Wave Guide tweeters are prone to a somewhat 'toppy' sounding treble, and take no prisoners with anything which resembles a bad recording. You could say that they are ruthlessly revealing!
The Pepperpot tweeters used in Monitor Golds (and in some of the current Tannoy Prestige range) are rather sweeter and more forgiving, although every bit as open and dynamic.
So if you do go for them, then some work will likely need done to the crossovers to tame their balance, and some serious thought put into the design of the cabinets. You would definitely want wide baffles, for starters, and I'd say 250 litres minimum.
Anyway, just a few words of advice :cool:
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
18-01-2011, 11:54
I'm not really a fountain of knowledge when it comes down to Tannoy drivers Marco :eyebrows:
What i do know is the model number is 3836 & when i checked the specs for that driver it's a bit of a pita to be honest :doh: QTS is over 0.41 & VAS is pretty big at somewhere over 350L, FS i can't remember but just under 30Hz springs to mind.
In all honesty the ideal enclosure size is huge at just over 500L :eek: I guess they could go into smaller enclosures of about 250L but this will give a slight peak in upper bass around 60-70Hz & they'd then need to be tuned quite low to avoid the port reinforcing the upper peak at twice the port resonance frequency :scratch:
E2A:- The drivers are basically more suited to a sealed box imo...
All in all not ideal, a lower QTS driver would be advantageous such as the type you own :)
Reid Malenfant
18-01-2011, 12:07
Here are the driver specs without me guessing ;)
3468
Ideal enclosure is a 254L sealed box for QCB of 0.7... If the enclosure was stuffed with something like rockwool it should give the same performance in 200L ;)
Rare Bird
18-01-2011, 12:13
Andre - they're even uglier than the Tannoys! A few quid over my budget I dare say, too...
Ugly :eek:! Na saw a pair the other day under your buget..
Hi Mark,
Here are the driver specs without me guessing
3468
Ideal enclosure is a 254L sealed box for QCB of 0.7... If the enclosure was stuffed with something like rockwool it should give the same performance in 200L ;)
That's interesting - now you can see why they'd be less than useless inside those tiny Lancaster cabs! :)
Marco.
Tweedle-Dee has a pair of Mission 782s (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=181413) for sale - any thoughts as to how these would go in my setup compared to the AE's???
Hi Alex
I have the full hi-fi world review by SP & NK here to hand - pretty much all of the comments are positive:
'acoustic guitar strums were crystal clear'
'Addictive drive to the sound'
'overall sound is quite bright (but) smooth and sweet making prolonged listening pain free'
'with the right material these 'speakers can go deceptively low'
'I got a well balanced and tuneful bass, with attack and depth'
price £699.90 - 3 and a half globes.
Hope that's some help:)
Regards
Thanks Martin, very helpful - much appreciate you taking the time to dig it out and post.
No worries dude it was sat right here in a bookcase in the lounge!
Stratmangler
24-01-2011, 10:25
The current Castle range might well be worth having a look at.
I've heard the Knight 2s and they were excellent.
Peter Comeau is the head speaker design at IAG, so there's good engineering pedigree behind the current Castle range.
aquapiranha
25-01-2011, 13:47
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rare-Vintage-ProAc-Studio-2-Floor-Standing-Speakers-/130476804432?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item1e61060950
:)
there is a certain chap selling a pair of heco celan 700 speakers i think you once showed an interest in once alex ...
nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweedle-Dee has a pair of Mission 782s (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=181413) for sale - any thoughts as to how these would go in my setup compared to the AE's???
782's? Bland, bland bland and perfect mag fodder...
These aren't bland when properly driven and cabled, but for under a grand, Alex could buy some Spendor S series. Much better balanced than PMC's, better driver integration AND NO BOOM, especially if used close-ish to a wall. The cabinet finish is impeccable and the styling WAF friendly. The Beech finish S6's or S8's (S6e/S8e slightly better in the bass but may cost more) would look grand in Alex's room and he'd be hearing dynamic range he never thought possible.
Alex, you and me need to pay HiFi Dave a visit. I'll see what I can do as I NEED to go there myself very soon :lol: A listen to the current Harbeth range will give you a very good idea what the Spendors above are hinting at ;)
Thanks Dave, I was going to give you a prod to let me have your thoughts as you started me down this train of thought... ;)
I have to say Spendors would probably be top of the list if they sound as good as they look, which from what you're saying, they do.
Only problem is, the new wood floor has now turned into a much more expensive proposition than originally envisaged (well, by me at least!) and has developed into a whole living room project, so pennies will have to be held back for a while before I make any move. The thing is, I don't know what I'm missing, so I'm quite happy to wait! ;) (As I said to you Dave when you came over, my system is the best I've ever heard, not having ever attended a bake off, hifi show or having any mates into hifi, so it is very difficult to know if you've done it right, even if you yourself are happy with the sound.)
Would love a trip over to Hifi Daves some time (happy to be chauffeur as long as I don't have to wear the silly hat again) to have my ear-'oles opened up to the possibilities, and I'm also really looking forward to Scalford which will also give me a bit more of an idea of what can be achieved. (Hat at the ready for then too, if you're up for it Dave - picking Mark (Reid Malenfant) up on the way too, I believe.)
Reid Malenfant
25-01-2011, 17:49
picking Mark (Reid Malenfant) up on the way too, I believe.)
If you'd be so kind, yes please :)
Just thought I'd give you all a quick update as you were so kind in your suggestions.
Just after I started this thread, the tumble drier packed up, so Mr. Zanussi relieved me of half of my speaker fund... Friday night the dishwasher packed up, so Mr. Smeg has just relieved me of the other half, and then some... The new walnut floor is being fitted next week, which is another £2k, and all of this is really annoying, as I have found a pair of Spendor 6e's that are immaculate and as new for £795... :doh: That's what I've got my heart set on really, but unless Mr. Lottery is going to play nicely, I doubt it will happen for a month or 3.
There is something coming up on ebay which I have hankered for for a long time - an itch that I'd like to scratch - and assuming they don't go for really silly money will, I think, give me something in the style of the Spendors, but hopefully at around half the price - although if I win them they are 200 miles away and collection only, so it will cost me best part of £100 in fuel on top to get them! All will be revealed when the auction finishes, whatever the result!
Assuming I'm not successful, then I will be back for advice on something in the £2-300 range - I'm pretty sure that's about how much is in Avatar's piggy bank, and she won't notice for a few years! (I'm thinking at the moment that I may go for a pair of stand mounts, and keep them locked up in the understairs cupboard, dragging them out only for proper listening sessions. I got narrowly outbid last night on a pair of Spendor SP2/2s, which would have been good, but at least it gives me a shot at the other mystery speakers coming up... :) I will just leave the AE's in situ for normal background and TV listening if I go this route, which will probably save me a lot of heartache and pushed in drivers on any new speakers!) Oh the joy of kids - Hamish, if you're reading this, you have all this to look forward to!
BTH K10A
13-02-2011, 22:59
Have you thought of Rogers Studio 1a's?
Seem to go for about £300 - £350 on ebay and are an overlooked gem. You won't lose on them in the future either.
I would love to try some Rogers, and it looks like the 1a's were available in walnut too, which would be a bonus! (Long story, but I inherited my Garrard 401 20 odd years ago, and I know they were originally paired with some small Rogers speakers - can't swear to it, but I reckon they were LS3/5a... They'll still be in his loft, too - though probably eaten by mice by now! I have often wondered if I should ask if I could climb up there and check!)
I'll do some reading on the 1a - thanks Andy.
Chorus 714v (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Focal-JM-Lab-Chorus-V-speaker-/220738905599?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item33651065ff#ht_500wt_1156)
The baby's of the floor standers but still great VFM!
magiccarpetride
15-02-2011, 00:02
So over to you folks - what would you suggest? Might just give me the motivation to divert the money from somewhere! (I've never won anything with my premium bonds anyway!)
I recommend Magnepan MMG (http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG). This will be the best $599 you'll ever spend on audio!
What's that? How is it possible to promise high-end audio on such an unbelievable shoestring budget? Okay, not everything is as rosy as I make it look, so let me hit you with the bad parts first:
- MMGs are not world famous for their bass. They take a lot of burn in time before they can offer you good bass. Getting them second hand may be a better option for you (you should be able to get them used for about $400).
- MMGs need a lot of power and current before they can fully blossom.
- MMGs can be very placement-sensitive.
- In order to deliver properly balanced soundstage, MMGs need to be elevated off the floor by about 8"; you're looking at possibly additional expenditure in building the stands (or simply place them on a stack of books).
-- Even after the full break-in, you may steel need more deep bass, in which case a subwoofer may make a dent in your budget.
OK, now for the good parts:
- MMGs will offer some of the sweetest, most magical midrange you'll ever hear.
- MMGs will image like the devil. Their soundstage magic powers are legendary.
- MMGs will give you the uncanny illusion that you are attending a live performance.
Finally, one major downside to MMGs is that, once you experience their magic, you won't be able to resist hearing their older brethren (like, 1.7 or 3.6 or the new 3.7). You will then check 1.7 or 3.6 or even 3.7 at your dealer, and will realize, on the spot, how music reproduction should really sound.
Uh-oh, now you're in trouble -- the new 3.7 costs $5,500!
Well, as the old saying goes -- you can't have it all. 'Cause, where would you put it?
The Grand Wazoo
15-02-2011, 00:19
The situation with MG speakers is a bit different over here Alex (magic alex, that is).
I think the MMG is only available direct from Magnepan, which may be a bit tricky from this distance (but I could be wrong).
The cheapest model that's available in the UK is the MG MC-1, which is a bit of a compromise (and £1400 odd) next up is the MG12 which at £1900 may be a bit beyond what Alex(_UK) is looking at spending - his OP talked of £500-£750.
magiccarpetride
15-02-2011, 00:28
The situation with MG speakers is a bit different over here Alex (magic alex, that is).
I think the MMG is only available direct from Magnepan, which may be a bit tricky from this distance (but I could be wrong).
The cheapest model that's available in the UK is the MG MC-1, which is a bit of a compromise (and £1400 odd) next up is the MG12 which at £1900 may be a bit beyond what Alex(_UK) is looking at spending - his OP talked of £500-£750.
OK, still I believe non-magic Alex could try to get a used pair that could get shipped to the big island north of Europe.
Like I've said, a guy in my hood was selling a really good pair of modified MMGs (he had improved the XO) for only $400, which was a bargain of the century. Not sure how much would shipping to the northern island in the midst of Atlantic Ocean end up costing him, but I'm pretty sure not more than $200 on a slow boat to China.
At the end of the day, he'll be a happy owner of these amazing speakers with some leftover money to spare. And I bet you that, providing only that he's not looking for some monstrosity of a 20 Hz bass to get reproduced on his home stereo, he'll end up completely delighted with these speakers (again, providing also that he can resist the urge to check their older brethren, whose sound is absolutely addictive and intoxicating).
Very, very peed off... :(
Speaker fund is completely in the red after battery light came on on my car on Friday, took it to the garage yesterday morning and the alternator has gone, (2 weeks after the warranty ran out) - £818 bill coming my way... :eek:
So, the maximum bid of £350 I was preparing to place on a pair of TDL Studio 1M's (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330529090538&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT#ht_720wt_1139) had to be reduced to £175, which wasn't enough to win them - just as well really because I couldn't even have afforded that - but they would have been perfect - (apart from 400 mile round trip to collect them) and in walnut to match the new floor which is being fitted next week.
Oh well, you win some, you lose some - hopefully after the tumble drier, dishwasher and car - that will be the three things - and no more for a while - please!
Looks like I picked a good time to start the "Cheap as Chips Challenge!"
Ali Tait
20-02-2011, 13:10
£818?? Alex, it's often just the brushes in motor that go. Even if you don't fancy having a go yourself, have a look locally for a car electrical specialist who may be able to repair or exchange for a damn sight less than that!!
Vinyleyes
20-02-2011, 13:46
+1 to that ....... check out google and make a few calls before committing to that kind of bill ... Here are a coupla links ..... they may be able to repair it for a lot less than 800 quid .. didn't know you drove a Roller ...... :eek: ... ........... :) ....
http://www.carelectricsuk.com/services.htm
http://www.yell.com/s/car+electrics-suffolk.html
Ali Tait
20-02-2011, 14:01
My step dad did the same thing. Noticed a leak on his Volvo XC70, took it to Volvo because he gets all his servicing done by them- "Well Sir, it looks like there is a problem with the hydraulic clutch system, we need to replace, that'll be £1500 thank you very much"
Next day he gets a phone call " While carrying out the work Sir, we noticed you need a new flywheel fitted also- that'll be another £500 thank you very much"
Two GRAND??? These people are serious rip-off merchants! I have been trying to tell him for years to take it somewhere else but he won't listen. You can lead a horse to water etc.
Fair enough if the car is new and still under warranty, but it's an 05 plate!
Thanks chaps - It's a complicated issue, which I am going to be taking up with the dealer/manufacturer, but basically I'm hoping that they will at least contribute to the cost (the alternator has died I believe because of a leaky fuel line which was covered under warranty, 3 weeks ago - so I will be arguing that the resultant damage should also be covered) - but the long and the short of it is that I need the car, so I haven't got much choice but to get it fixed at the main dealer and hope I'm successful in my appeal...
spendorman
20-02-2011, 19:04
I've bought brand new alternators on e bay, but generally for older cars, never paid more than £100. For my ancient Volvo, brand new boxed alternator was £29 inc. postage.
I have also bought second hand alternators on e bay, they have been OK too.
I have a brand new boxed spare starter here for the same Volvo, that was £25, think postage was on top of that.
Reid Malenfant
20-02-2011, 19:10
Jeez Alex, seems like you have had your run of bad luck - well i damn well hope so :eek:
What kind of alternator costs £800+ pounds to replace? Someone is having a laugh i reckon & something tells me it's not you!
Seriously that takes the p*ss m8, if you look around the ICE audio magazines you'll get a brand new 300Amp alternator for less that that :doh:
Shop about, i reckon you are looking at less than £200 fitted & i'm being serious :cool:
I agree that sounds a sh!t load of money! Not sure about the part, but it is 3.6 hours to fit - stupid design - the engine has to come out! (From my research (not what the dealer has told me) - but even so, that means they are charging £500 odd for an alternator! :eek:) (The car is a Chrysler 300C 3.0 V6 CRD (Mercedes engine and running gear - 320 CDI engine same as E/S-Class - but still sounds a lot of wonga!)
Going to the dealers first thing in the morning for a chat...
It's stuff like this that makes me thankful I don't own a car.
Hope you get it sorted for a lot less than you've been quoted and can get that speaker fund going again.
Reid Malenfant
20-02-2011, 19:37
Not sure about the part, but it is 3.6 hours to fit - stupid design - the engine has to come out!
FFS who designs things like this, obviously some :wanker:
:donk:
The Grand Wazoo
20-02-2011, 23:51
Going back to the speakers Alex wanted to buy...........does anyone have any experience of these?
I very nearly got myself a pair back when they were new 'n' shiny. I spent a long time listening to them in several dealers and in my own home. I wonder whether Alex' amp would make a good match here. I seem to remember these as requiring a good dose of whumptie and not really waking up until they got it.
I don't know your amp at all Alex, so forgive me if I'm casting nasturtiums at it.
Going back to the speakers Alex wanted to buy...........does anyone have any experience of these?
I very nearly got myself a pair back when they were new 'n' shiny. I spent a long time listening to them in several dealers and in my own home. I wonder whether Alex' amp would make a good match here. I seem to remember these as requiring a good dose of whumptie and not really waking up until they got it.
I don't know your amp at all Alex, so forgive me if I'm casting nasturtiums at it.
Dunno... Dave DSJR didn't mention it, as I consulted him on these, my Creek puts out 85w RMS into 8 Ohms, not sure if that would be enough juice, or not?
The silver lining I am looking for in this particular cloud is that having resigned myself to having to find £800 for car repairs, if I can get that covered under the warranty, then I can happily spend the £800 on the Spendors I really want... Two big "ifs" there - Chrysler & Mrs Alex - not sure either of them will see it my way! :lol:
The Grand Wazoo
21-02-2011, 00:34
I fully accept that I'm working off my decidedly ropey memory, but I think the Studio 1's were a bit easier to drive & the 1M's were rather different, having more reactive characteristics.
Drum roll please... a deal has been struck, and although I won't be able to collect them until Friday 11th, a pair of Spendor SP1s will be squeezing their way in to Alex Towers. They are early serial numbers, one owner from new and in very good condition apparently... Sourced from a local(ish) hifi shop who are selling them on behalf of a customer.
My plan is that the AE's will stay in situ in the living room, and be used for background and general listening when the little 'un is about, and the Spendors will live in the under-stairs cupboard (they'll fit - I checked!) being brought out for when I have the chance for some proper listening. This way, I've got a fighting chance that they won't get knocked off their stands, or little fingers finding their way into those lovely drivers...
I will of course put some pictures up and my thoughts once they're here - can't wait!
Nice choice, Alex! :)
They'll be VERY different to your AEs... Expect to lose some bottom end welly (or perhaps flab? ;)) and gain oodles of midrange and high frequency information, making voices and acoustic instruments in particular sound so lifelike and emotionally communicative, it's spooky!
Hope you have lots of fun with them :cool:
Marco.
spendorman
01-03-2011, 17:57
Drum roll please... a deal has been struck, and although I won't be able to collect them until Friday 11th, a pair of Spendor SP1s will be squeezing their way in to Alex Towers. They are early serial numbers, one owner from new and in very good condition apparently... Sourced from a local(ish) hifi shop who are selling them on behalf of a customer.
My plan is that the AE's will stay in situ in the living room, and be used for background and general listening when the little 'un is about, and the Spendors will live in the under-stairs cupboard (they'll fit - I checked!) being brought out for when I have the chance for some proper listening. This way, I've got a fighting chance that they won't get knocked off their stands, or little fingers finding their way into those lovely drivers...
I will of course put some pictures up and my thoughts once they're here - can't wait!
I have BC1's, BC1a's BC2's and Preludes, but no SP1's, love the combination of Celestion HF1300 and Coles 4001G.
So do I - awesome combo! I think the 1300 unit every bit as good as the HF2000s in my Ditton 66s, Paul?
Marco.
Reid Malenfant
01-03-2011, 18:47
Nice one Alex :) They should easily out perform those AEs you have in every area :eyebrows: Just had a look on the web to see what they entail, very nice to i might add ;)
I'd say the HF1300 is possibly slightly better in certain areas than the HF2000 Marco, it just runs out of steam at about 13KHz, hense the Coles 4001 supertweeter to get the bandwidth back.
I don't think they are quite as efficient though, if you take a look at the Ditton 25 which is very similar but smaller than the 66 you'll see they use two of them. That might be due to how low a frequency they might be asked to do in the 25 though thinking about it.
I have a feeling Alex is going to be very happy with his purchase :)
spendorman
01-03-2011, 19:03
So do I - awesome combo! I think the 1300 unit every bit as good as the HF2000s in my Ditton 66s, Paul?
Marco.
It all depends on how the tweeters are used, crossover point, rate of attenuation etc.
The HF2000 is a small hard dome, not good if one crossovers at a lowish frequency, but fine if crossover freq is high and rate of attenuation is steep.
The KEF T27 is an example, does not sound that good in many early KEF designs (e.g. Cadenza, Choralle etc, but is OK in LS3/5a, KEF Corelli and as a supertweeter above the HF1300 in the Rogers Export Monitors.
It is possible (and likely) that given the correct crossover, the HF1300/Coles combination would be better than HF2000 in the Ditton 66. In fact I have been thinking of that very conversion for my Ditton 44's.
The HF2000 is used as a supertweeter in my Rogers LS3/6 BBC Monitors. In this situation it is more robust than the Coles 4001G.
Nice one, guys - much as I suspected :)
When Alex fires them up, I'm sure he'll be over the moon! :cool:
Marco.
Thanks guys! I can't go wrong really - if I don't like them I should be able to pass them on without losing much, as there will always be a strong demand for these I think. Should be an interesting journey - and of course big thanks to DSJR who has been my personal guru - not so much in pushing me towards these, but making sure I didn't make a silly mistake with one or two of my other suggestions! Cheers Dave. :)
Man those pesky kids!!!!!!!
Been there with my quadII's and both of my children being toddlers! One thing was for sure, as tempting as the glowing was, it was also hot. They didn't take long to learn to give them a wide berth. We all survived ok, no burnt fingers and no broken equipment :) They are much older now and so I no longer have the same issue. One thing is for sure, as much as you want them to grow up, those early days when they are young and innocent are awesome.
Soon enough you'll be able to have the new speakers on permanent display. Enjoy ;-)
Picking up the Spendors tomorrow, must say I am quite excited, but a bit apprehensive at the same time - never bought anything for my main system without auditioning them first, so this could go horribly wrong! I doubt it, though, based on the research I've done and advice sought. If it all goes t!ts up then expect a "Private Exhibitions" thread imminently, though I'm hopeful not!
Full report to follow. :)
The Grand Wazoo
10-03-2011, 23:16
I hope this works out for you Alex, I should say that they'd be a good match for your set-up & tastes.
I hope this works out for you Alex, I should say that they'd be a good match for your set-up & tastes.
Thanks Chris. All will become apparent over the next few days I guess!
Rare Bird
10-03-2011, 23:21
Hope you like em, i was never a fan
Hope you like em, i was never a fan
Cheers dude - I guess being introduced in '83 they were at least 10 years too late anyway! ;)
In theory, they should be right up my alley, but only time will tell. All good fun though, whatever the outcome.
Aff, don’t listen to Mr grumpy, wish I had a grey cortina, a kipper tie and flares :lol:
It will be fine Alex. Good bins.
Relax, Alex, they'll be ace! Have you got some suitable stands for them? :)
Marco.
Aff, don’t listen to Mr grumpy, wish I had a grey cortina, a kipper tie and flares :lol:
It will be fine Alex. Good bins.
Easy fella, I had a gold Cortina. Granted, it was much too modern (a MK IV) but I don't think I've enjoyed any car as much since! BTW, all the Custard Creams have gone, hope you're ok with Jammie Dodgers?
Relax, Alex, they'll be ace! Have you got some suitable stands for them? :)
Marco.
Cheers Marco.
They come with the standard Spendor ones, although the previous (original) owner has removed the castors and modified them for spikes instead. I've won a pair of 16" target stands for 99p off ebay, which might be a little bit too tall, but if I get on with the speakers I will probably get a set of Something Solid open frame jobbies.
Rare Bird
11-03-2011, 00:09
Cheers Marco.
They come with the standard Spendor ones, although the previous (original) owner has removed the castors and modified them for spikes instead. I've won a pair of 16" target stands for 99p off ebay, which might be a little bit too tall, but if I get on with the speakers I will probably get a set of Something Solid open frame jobbies.
The original Box section stands are too low imho
The original Box section stands are too low imho
I think they will be, but I need to get them home and experiment a bit - DSJR suggests 12-14" (hence why I said the 16" ones may be a bit high, but rude not to try at 99p!) - the complication is that we need new sofas, so that will change the goalposts anyway - so will probably hang on until that is sorted for a final solution - judicious use of Yellow Pages in the meantime!
Cheers Marco.
They come with the standard Spendor ones, although the previous (original) owner has removed the castors and modified them for spikes instead. I've won a pair of 16" target stands for 99p off ebay, which might be a little bit too tall, but if I get on with the speakers I will probably get a set of Something Solid open frame jobbies.
Nice move. Open-frame stands are ultimately the way to go with classic Spendors and Harbeths. High-mass is not the best route to optimise the performance of these designs. Light but rigid is the way :)
Marco.
Spot the difference... The AE's are consigned to the dining room, and the SP1s are in situ. (My wife didn't notice, until I pointed them out, and then proclaimed "I'm not having those in my living room, they look like something from the 70's or 80's!!" ...says the woman who has just chosen the most 70's floral design for the living room you could ever dream up!)
Anyway, here they be:
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_4509.jpg?t=1299863159
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_4510.jpg?t=1299863159
And the "naked money shot" :eyebrows:
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_4518.jpg?t=1299863159
They were described as "one owner from new" and "Very Good Condition" - I would say they are better than that - a couple of tiny, tiny nicks on the rear edges of the veneer, but other than that they really are mint.
The previous owner converted the stands from castors to spikes, and as luck would have it, they are M8 thread, so the feet I bought for the AE's screwed right in. That said, the stands are probably a little too short, though not by as much as I thought they would be. Will try the 16" ones tomorrow.
I've not really had much chance to listen, and certainly not at a decent level, but so far I can certainly say that I am not disappointed. I will probably write a more comprehensive review after living with them for a while, but let's just say that I am a very happy bunny, and have just realised that up until now, I didn't really have a hi-fi, did I?
:)
They look FAB, Alex! No doubt they'll sound fab, too, when you get a chance to listen properly :)
My wife didn't notice, until I pointed them out, and then proclaimed "I'm not having those in my living room...
"My"? Surely 'our' is more appropriate? Have you lost those pants again, babby....? :lol: ;)
Marco.
They look FAB, Alex! No doubt they'll sound fab, too, when you get a chance to listen properly :)
"My"? Surely 'our' is more appropriate? Have lost those pants again, babby....? :lol: ;)
Marco.
Marco, it's the weekend, I'm always in the nappies with the big dummy, you should remember that! :lol:
To be fair I'm using a bit of dramatic licence, she did immediately follow up her comment with "if it makes you happy that's fine" so I think all will be well. She did even concede they sounded rather good. :)
Just spinning some Art of Noise - even at low level, WOW! This is going to make me have to eat my words about all those hifi hyperboles I'm always so dismissive of!
:cool:
Yesh I know, and it's time you were changed, pishy pants, as I can shniff you from here! :eyebrows:
You now own a proper (and serious) pair of speakers (and they're in really lovely nick, too), so enjoy! :gig:
Marco.
Rare Bird
11-03-2011, 23:52
Awesome Alex
Ali Tait
12-03-2011, 00:33
Retro-tastic! Very nice mate, let us know how they sound.
Rare Bird
12-03-2011, 00:36
Yesh I know, and it's time you were changed, pishy pants, as I can shniff you from here! :eyebrows:
You now own a proper (and serious) pair of speakers (and they're in really lovely nick, too), so enjoy! :gig:
Marco.
Wait till the RAM's get in place, i prefered them tbh, but at the end of the day it's the presentation Alex prefers that matters. Is he a straight man or a cuddly man :eyebrows:
Depends on who wants a cuddle as to how straight I am! :lolsign:
Rare Bird
12-03-2011, 00:40
i'm easy take your pick :lolsign:
Well, how hairy is yer arse....? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Looking good Alex and hopefully sounding good as well :)
Give em a couple of months and then think about a bit of crossover tweaking perhaps (?)
How are you getting on with the SP1s, Alex? We haven't heard anything for a while.... :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
15-03-2011, 01:37
How are you getting on with the SP1s, Alex? We haven't heard anything for a while.... :)
I think you answered your own question there, well kinda :)
Do you think engrossed is a good wurd?
Yes, that's likely the case! It would be nice to know his thoughts though now he's had a chance to have a good listen :cool:
Marco.
P.S Btw, Andy's coming back :)
Rare Bird
15-03-2011, 01:43
Yes, that's likely the case! It would be nice to know his thoughts though now he's had a chance to have a good listen :cool:
Marco.
P.S Btw, Andy's coming back :)
Brilliant thats fantastic news.
............................
It will be intresting to hear what Alex thinks of the RAM '150's, with the Audax tweeter over the Coles/Celestion he's using in the Spendoodles.
Alex has sent me a few emails confirming that he loves 'em (they look beter than my BC2's - grrrrr!)
Driver integration is better on the SP1's so absolute speaker height won't be as critical as on mine either..
Crossover mods - don't even go there - Spendor selected the caps individually and matched these to the drivers. There's not an electrolytic in sight on any of 'em, the transformer style inductors will only overload after the driver bottoms out and Spendor had beefed up the internal wiring by then from memory.
Enjoy them as they are Alex and if you want an even better sound, change 'em for some new Harbeths, since it's obvious the room likes this particular style of music reproduction... :)
Nice one, Dave - glad Alex is enjoying them :)
Crossover mods - don't even go there - Spendor selected the caps individually and matched these to the drivers.
You know, I think Celestion may have done the same with the 66s... As you know, they were very well received at the Scalford Hall show, and quite simply sound SUPERB.
I just can't hear much, if anything, wrong with the crossovers, and so despite recommendations to the contrary, I'm inclined to leave them 'as is'.
However, I'll make a final decision on that when I've had a look inside, and also shown what's in there to Anthony, who'll be able to test the components fitted.
Marco.
Rare Bird
15-03-2011, 10:36
Marco
You really need to rebuild the crossovers weither they sound great or not
I hear ya, dude, and do plan to check them out :)
Marco.
Hi folks, thanks for the continued interest. Work has been absolutely mental, and we had family over for the weekend, hence why I've been a bit quiet on AoS over the last few days.
As Dave has said, I am absolutely in love with these speakers so far, but am still needing some proper "quality time" with them at home alone which I should hopefully get a bit of tomorrow, to properly evaluate them. I'm planning on writing a review of them, with the emphasis on comparing these classics with modern speaker voicing, but that will doubtless take me a little while.
In the meantime, as I think I said to Dave in one of my emails, I feel a bit of a fraud having been saying I have a hifi - quite clearly I didn't until these speakers arrived! I suspect I am going to have to trot out all the hifi superlatives and hyperbole that I am always thinking to myself "yeah, whatever! :rolleyes:" when I read them on here! :lol:
I was also rather gratified to see a pair go on eBay last night that weren't as good as mine, and without the Spendor stands, and over TWICE what I paid for them! So if I don't take to them (unlikely) I suspect I can make a tidy profit too - but to be honest, I doubt these babies will be leaving my possession any time soon, if ever... :)
I would love to hear these one day? :)
I would love to hear these one day? :)
Well if you ever get up to the cul-de-sac of England that is East Anglia, you'd be made more than welcome, Tim.
Given the proposed "Cheap As Chips" Challenge (or as Chris TGW has christened it, the "CAC" Challenge! :lol:) then I doubt I will be exhibiting separately at Scalford next year (though I would like to one day, maybe when I go valves...:eyebrows:) but I could always chuck 'em in the car anyway.
The Grand Wazoo
15-03-2011, 22:28
............"Cheap As Chips" Challenge (or as Chris TGW has christened it, the "CAC" Challenge! :lol:)
What with that & the other one I've done for you, you should think yourself lucky to have my services free of charge - lesser Branding Consultants charge a bleedin' fortune for genius like that mate!
I don't know if there any "BBC Inspired" dealers down in Dorset, but Sevenoaks (spit) sell Spendor and the current A series has been very carefully voiced by one who cares (Terry Miles I think). Apart from the necessary pricing (I'm not going there with that one ;)), the sonics are extremely good I understand and very much "in keeping."
I've been threatened with a pair of ex-broadcast (not BBC) LS5/9's in tatty black finish. The Harbeth Monitor 30 is the current "drop-in" replacement, so that means they'll be a tad brighter than normal for these thin-wall boxes. I look forward to trying them out in due course :)
What with that & the other one I've done for you, you should think yourself lucky to have my services free of charge - lesser Branding Consultants charge a bleedin' fortune for genius like that mate!
:D
I thought people might be interested in reading my thoughts on my latest acquisition now that I’ve been listening to them for about a week.
First off, a little bit of background on the SP1s. Essentially, the SP1 was a home version of the BC-1, and like the BC-1, is a three-driver speaker, but is more like a two-way design with a “super-tweeter” - in this case a Coles 4001G supplementing the Celestion HF 1300 in the high frequency duties. An 8” Polypropylene coned in-house driver takes care of the low end, with a front facing port. The cross-over from the bass-midrange is at 3 kHz and from tweeter to super-tweeter at 13 kHz. The box is a 25” high, 12” wide and 12” deep - a conventional stand-mount design. Plenty of space behind and to the side of the speakers is essential to get the best from them. My particular pair is matched, with early serial numbers, most likely from the first year of production – 1983.
The speakers that got ousted by these venerable classics were a pair of Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo 3 floorstanders – around 5 years old and typical of modern floorstanding speakers in that they house smaller drivers and have a narrower front baffle than vintage speakers, and of course are “voiced” in a modern way. So, how far have we come in 25 years?
When I first started listening to the SP1s, I was immediately pleased (relieved?) to hear that the midrange clarity I was craving was immediately there. My research (and personal Hi-Fi Guru - Dave (DSJR)) had lead me to believe that the midrange with Spendors is generally their “tour de force” being exceptionally accurate and clear – and with the SP1s they don’t disappoint. I am going to try and desperately avoid the hi-fi clichés I have often been disparaging of – but that may prove a difficult task!
Listening to one of my all time favourite female vocalists – Tina Dico – it was just so much more realistic. Having seen Tina live only a week or so before, I know how clean and crisp her voice sounds, and I just wasn’t getting that with the AE’s. With the SP1s, her voice came to prominence in the mix, with super sweet tones and I could hear the delicate intricacies of her breathing that I just wasn’t hearing before. With the AE’s, the treble is far more “in your face” – with the SP1s it just seems to accentuate the midrange, with no harshness at all, and a delicate tone to cymbals without splashiness. So far, so good, then.
Aside from female vocalists, one of my other main areas of music interest is Electronica & Dance, particularly downtempo “chill out” types. So next up then, one of my favourite dance albums of all time – Vertigo by Groove Armada on SACD.
The album opens with “Chicago” – the opening sequence of which features a “whooshy” sound that goes from left channel to the right channel – or rather, that’s what I thought it did, on hundreds of previous listens. The SP1s made me realise that actually, the sound also repeats itself in the centre of the image, as well as the extremities – and I had never noticed before. Not only was I able to pinpoint a moving sound, but the SP1s lock a particular noise, instrument or voice perfectly in the stereo image.
Depth of image, a “3D” or “Holographic” image for me is the stuff of legend – a bit like the tooth fairy - I believed in it once, but had never seen the evidence so I assumed it to be a hi-fi myth. Well, I can’t say I believe in the tooth fairy now, but I certainly now know how parts of a recording can appear at different depths in the front to rear plain, as well as left to right. Quite how a sound can move up and down in the image though, is beyond me – I’ve taken the grills off, and there is no way the drivers can be swivelling, so how DO they do that?
On more than one occasion I have looked to my extreme left or right, wondering what the noise I heard was - only to realise it was actually coming out of the speakers! So, imaging too gets the thumbs up (and round, and up and down and front to back.)
You’re probably thinking this is all too good to be true – there must be something wrong with these speakers? Well, maybe, and at one point, I was definitely a little worried! Playing some faster, harder Dance I was left thinking “where’s the bass gone? How can speakers that big produce so little bass? Then suddenly – “thump” and there it was. The problem is, I’ve been “spoiled” by the AE’s – quite literally, it seems. I’ve heard the term “one note bass” and now I realise it’s what I’ve been putting up with for the last 5 years! Superficially, the SP1s don’t appear to go so low, but what I’ve realised as the hours of listening have accumulated is that what they actually do is accurately reproduce the bass that is on the recording, rather than artificially emphasise the lower regions. At first listen, this made the Spendors seem less impressive, but as my ears and brain are now adjusting to a more accurate presentation, I can now clearly hear the differences between bass notes and bass drums and follow them rather than just be subjected to a low end mush.
I could go on about the black canvass from which notes and sounds now emanate, the separation between instruments that I just didn’t get with the AE’s and the knife sharp detail in melodies that I am now able to follow with ease – but as you’ve probably already guessed, that I am rather taken with the Spendor SP1s, and suspect I will be investigating more modern offerings from the same brand or the similar voiced Harbeth range at some point in the future – but not for the moment – at present I just want to take any opportunity I can to get lost in the new version of music that I am being immersed in.
I’ve heard people say that these speakers are “boring” – I must admit, that’s a term I struggle with – surely all you want from a speaker is for it to accurately reproduce the recording up the chain? All I can say is – I’m happy with boring. Very happy – I have a grin on my face that looks like the frequency response of a modern speaker! :)
Great to hear you are enjoying your new speakers Alex, just enjoy the music
spendorman
17-03-2011, 16:49
I've always liked the Celestion HF 1300/ Coles 4001G combination, works so well in many designs, e.g. B&W DM1, DM2, DM2a, DM4, the DM3 uses the Celestion HF1400 (1300 with bigger magnet) and the Coles 4001G.
Some say that the midrange of the BC1 is better than the SP1. I have never owned SP1.
I do have all the B&W above and BC1 and BC2.
Alex mate, may I offer congratulations and a couple of corrections please?
The BC1 came first as a development out of the BBC research carried out by Spen Hughes, Dudley Harwood (Harbeth) and other notables. The "official" BBC product, the LS3/6, apparently didn't sell to the Beeb in vast quantities, yet the simpler (less adjustable crossover) derivative from this research, the Spendor BC1, sold in large numbers right up until the early 80's I understand, finally being taken out of service in 1987 (from memory).
The BC1 idea was developed a little for better bass and higher power handling with the BC2 which I have, the trade-off being lack of absolute smoothness at the crossover point, a slight suckout being introduced to mask this. Only really an issue if they're too close to a wall, which lifts the bass even more.
This neutral to subtle upper mid reacts severely with the peaked up and phasey crossover region and fizzy treble exhibited by so many "Flat-Earth" speakers like many early Royds and Kans for example, the "BBC" way of doing things making the Spendors and Rogers of this period sound a little boomy and recessed - boring in other words - One reason so few flat-earthers listen to full-on orchestral or acoustic music in general I found personally.
As the 70's went on and the BC1 went through a much publicised driver-surround issue, the new Polypropylene wonder-cone came along. Spendor developed the SP1, which has 90% of the BC1's midband lucidity and a further improved bass quality and power handling of the BC2. By the launch date of 1983, my experience was that Rogers had taken over this end of the domestic market, the various "Studio 1" models being nicer looking and very popular, despite a bass heaviness quite often.
For me, the SP1 was a glorious return to form. These worked a treat with Naim (important back then) and the higher open Target stands were often used with these. The BC3-esque styling was much more up-to-date (my old BC2's are really looking tired now) and the tightly fitting black grille-cloth didn't sag as mine have now the sponge underneath has crumbled away. I last listened to some in anger a few years ago and they more than held their own easily over significantly more expensive alternatives I thought. They just have a great blend of virtues and cover their faint tracks really well.
These days, Spendor don't seem to want to vastly promote their "classic" range and put it about that the S, SE and I suspect the A range is superior. I cannot possibly judge this, except to say that Harbeth have stepped in and can always pull a pair of their excellent speakers for UK sales from an export order as necessary.
One final thing and then I'll shut up and return to my studies, which keep being neglected for audio reasons ;) people who bought and buy "BBC" type speakers tend to keep them for decades (Tannoys too I believe). If the particular recipe suits, the amount of enjoyment gained is enormous and very long lasting. be warned though, old BC1's, 2's and 3's bass/mid are no longer supported by Spendor and a blow-up will mean either scrapping the speakers or buying another pair for parts, which may not match the crossovers properly. I believe SP1's may still be supported BUT.. SP1/2, SP2/2 and it's siblings from the late eighties onwards may suffer stiffening of the rubber-compound surrounds (ooohhh missus) as has happened with some SP2/3's I know of that were little used in an editing suite since the late 90's.
Hi Dave,
These days, Spendor don't seem to want to vastly promote their "classic" range and put it about that the S, SE and I suspect the A range is superior. I cannot possibly judge this...
It's bullshit, mate, perpetrated by a marketing bandwagon.
The situation was exactly the same when I had the SP100s, with the 'Classic Series' played down and touted almost as the poor relation, when in reality that was far from the case. Swifty simply wants the glory, and folk to praise the 'S-series', because that's the design he introduced when he joined the company.
The 'Classic Series' has little do with him, and is of course based on the original designs invented by Spencer Hughes in conjunction with the BBC, so he plays down that part of the Spendor product range, because that's what suits his interests.
I also suspect that the 'Classic Series' is not as profitable as the 'S-Series', as in my view, the drivers in the former are of better quality, for starters. They probably only keep the Classic Series going because of the fanaticism of the Japanese for BBC heritage speakers, and any studios that still use them for monitoring purposes.
As for the supposed 'superiority' of the S-Series, well, I guess that depends on two main factors:
1) Whether you prefer stand-mounts or floor-standing designs.
2) Whether you seek neutrality and accuracy (particularly in the midrange) in the BBC tradition, over all else, or whether you value a more modern and commercial sound, created simply to comply with current fashion.
I certainly know where my priorities would lie! ;)
Arguably, however, the traditional BBC values of sound reproduction are better served anyway these days by Harbeth.
Marco.
To be fair, the S6 and S8 were beautifully made with decent cabinets and a great sound for a wide range of systems. I didn't like the S5 and told Phil so when he brought them to us (I've known Mr S since the Lentek days of the late 70's). The needed too much pratting around to get the bass to balance out and the S3/5's were nothing like as good as the little Harbeth P3 of old and certainly inferior to the current P3ESR, which I'm sure you'd love Marco as a great little box with a huge heart.
The S"E" versions were tauter in the bass and the S9e was fantastic, able to funk with the best of 'em and smooth enough for orchestral pieces.
Since the introduction of a mid/far eastern gent on the Spendor director-list, the A series has come along, with cheaper looking boxes yet seemingly higher pricing. I do understand in fairness that assembly is all done in the UK and this won't be as cheap as importing boxes for under £50 the pair from China and flogging them out for many hundreds of pounds. Also, the main dealer-chain need to make a minimum profit percentage for these to be on the "recommend to punters" list, so this will have an effect on the retail prices too sadly, as I believe few other dealers now stock them.
Hi Alex
Great that you got this sorted at last and congrats on the Spendors, even if I was secretly hoping that you would end up getting a pair of those 'Hi karate' Sansuies;) - Dave DSJR knows his onions - he recommended me to the Croft pre and I ain't looked back:cool:
Best
Great that you got this sorted at last and congrats on the Spendors, even if I was secretly hoping that you would end up getting a pair of those 'Hi karate' Sansuies ;)
There's still time! :eyebrows:
Dave DSJR knows his onions - he recommended me to the Croft pre and I ain't looked back:cool:
He certainly does - cheers again Dave :)
I certainly don't have all my onions at school - so much to learn and it's like learning to drive - emotional rollercoaster and every thought and action having to be carefully done...
I found some more old piccies this morning of me and the gear I had. What's happened to me? the haggard old baldie head looking back at me in the shaving mirror ain't me, but is.....
Rare Bird
20-03-2011, 18:12
I found some more old piccies this morning of me and the gear I had. What's happened to me? the haggard old baldie head looking back at me in the shaving mirror ain't me, but is.....
:worthless:
+1 Come on, let's have a squinto! :)
Marco.
You mean I've got to go back up into the loft, fight my way through the boxes of photos?
Oh well, but not till Wednesday at the earliest (I'm skiving on here as it is ;))
Nice one -with or without your dress on, we'll understand... :eyebrows:
Marco.
Rare Bird
31-03-2011, 11:56
Alex:
Hows the RAM's compare? I know what i'd rather have but if you don't want the RAM's send em up to me :eyebrows:
I may have gone all high tech but i'm certainly not stupid enough to buy modern speakers ;)
Hi Andre - only had a brief listen to the RAMs since I picked them up a week ago - I was very impressed, certainly for the money, but need to have some proper time with them before I can make any conclusions. You're first on the list, though. ;)
Rare Bird
31-03-2011, 15:33
Thats good i'm sure you'll hate em ;)
Just got the RAM 150 speakers "locked and loaded" so here's a couple of pictures especially for Andre:
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_4959_1.jpg?t=1303894687
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/hifi/IMG_4960a.jpg?t=1303894803
Now, time to see how they sound - more to follow later. :)
Rare Bird
27-04-2011, 09:06
:)
bet they sound better than the Spendors...:eyebrows:
|Incidentally, am I the only one at work today?
bet they sound better than the Spendors...:eyebrows:
Still swapping back and forth and making my mind up on that one Martin. They certainly sound better than my old AE's... Not sure the SP1s will be usurped though... But as the "face" of my Cheap As Chips system, they will be interesting I think... :)
Incidentally, am I the only one at work today?
Very probably - the rest of us are all making our preparations for the Royal Wedding celebrations by the look of it! :D
Rare Bird
27-04-2011, 12:33
bet they sound better than the Spendors...:eyebrows:
I prefer em'. Crossovers are dead easy to re cap in em, they use good inductors already
Looking good Alex,
But what happened to the Spendors?
Regards
Don't panic, Barry - the Spendors are back in their rightful place! :)
The RAMs were acquired for the Cheap As Chips Challenge and to "scratch an itch" - so today was only a temporary substitution for the SP1s unless something dramatic happened to my ears... it didn't, but still too early for any firm conclusions on the RAMs - but they're certainly goodies! They excel at Rock (type) music, so I can sort of see why Andre preferred them over the Spendors, but for my favoured type of music (chilled electronica, female vocals and acoustic) the Spendors have the edge, I think.
Reid Malenfant
27-04-2011, 20:14
They just need to be twice the size with a nice flapping baffle & they'll kick some proverbial :booty:
:lolsign:
They already have a flappy baffle Mark, but yes, size x2 would be good! :)
Reid Malenfant
27-04-2011, 20:44
Really? Sorry Alex, i thought they were 2.5 way speakers :scratch: Ah well, even i'm not perfect :eyebrows:
Reid Malenfant
27-04-2011, 21:09
You are 100% correct Alex, just checked up on the web & indeed they do have an ABR or as Dave would say a "flapping baffle" :lol:
No need to increase the size of them then...
You are 100% correct Alex, just checked up on the web & indeed they do have an ABR
Wot - you didn't trust me! :rolleyes:
:lol:
They certainly do bass well - they do everything well - maybe not quite as sweet in the midrange as the Spendors, but they're definitely from the "proper" school of speakers... :)
Reid Malenfant
27-04-2011, 21:53
Wot - you didn't trust me! :rolleyes:
Of course i trusted you :eyebrows: But like any sane person i do like to make sure you haven't been given bad information :lolsign: Pretty sure i have in the past :eek:
Give us a hug :grouphug: Now get back to your Spendors :eyebrows:
Hugs are for poofs - gis a kiss! :kiss:
Reid Malenfant
27-04-2011, 21:58
No tongues ;)
:lol:
Rare Bird
27-04-2011, 22:24
No need to increase the size of them then...
You do enter the RAM '200' :)
Do this mean that you like RAMming home a big one?
Marco.
Rare Bird
27-04-2011, 22:51
:eyebrows:
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