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Alex_UK
15-01-2011, 15:24
Well I think I've been convinced by SWMBO that we are going to have our living room carpet replaced with real wood flooring... I've been dead against it for several reasons, not least the worry that it will ruin the sound of the hifi but that's all by-the-by... :rolleyes: So, accepting the inevitable, my Acoustic Energy floorstanders are going to have to lose their spikes (cups are not really an option as I move them out into the room for proper listening, and one to the side of the TV for movies etc.)

I'm thinking of going with Soundcare SuperSpikes (http://www.soundcare.no/), which will work out at about £80 for two sets of M8 standard ones. Does anybody have any experience of these, or have any alternative suggestions? My main worry is stability, having already had my little girl knock one over, so I may also be looking at some sort of platform or "outrigger" as a stabiliser, so if they get a good shove they shouldn't topple, so any thoughts on that gratefully received too.

Thanks muchly! :)

The Grand Wazoo
15-01-2011, 15:27
I use them on my speakers Alex. I've had them for 4 or 5 years & they're very good. It took ages to find some with the 1/4" thread I needed though!

Alex_UK
16-01-2011, 00:42
I use them on my speakers Alex. I've had them for 4 or 5 years & they're very good. It took ages to find some with the 1/4" thread I needed though!

Thanks Chris, I think you may have PM'd me about them back in the dim & distant? :scratch: Was certainly someone on here that put me on to them in the first place. :cool:

Jac Hawk
16-01-2011, 12:33
My mate had the same problem, in that his wife wanted wood flooring, what he did was to get 2 granite slabs, cover the backs in thick felt and stand his speakrs on em, they sounded good but it was hard to judge as the room without carpet sounded much different.

The Grand Wazoo
16-01-2011, 12:38
Thanks Chris, I think you may have PM'd me about them back in the dim & distant? :scratch:

You could be right, I do seem to remember it now. That was ages ago - pull you finger out, man!

ReggieB
16-01-2011, 14:17
Have you seen these:

http://www.atacama-audio.co.uk/spikeshoes.htm

The Grand Wazoo
16-01-2011, 14:25
The thing about the Soundcare spikes is that you can't accidentally spike the floor when you're moving things around because the cups are captive. Using normal spikes & cups, you can't put the speaker or stand down until it's placed correctly. This becomes rather vital if you've got very big and/or heavy speakers.

pwood
16-01-2011, 17:31
I have laminate flooring and boy does it f up the sound. Atacama make Spike shoes as do Linn. The main reason for spikes is stability on carpet so as long as the speaker is level there are better alternatives. My RX6;s come with dedicated feet that are adjustable on wooden floors with the option to add the supplied spikes for carpets I wonder if you could buy direct from Monitor Audio as it is the best solution out there for laminate. I used to think spikes were a necessity but not any more trying to place my old Ruark Talisman 11 with soundbites onto the Atacama spike shoes was precarious as hell. The cheapest and most pleasing cosmetic option if using spikes is a marble tile under each speaker as you can buy the one that matches the decor the best. Fit those little rubber feet things from Ikea B&Q etc to save the floor being scratched.

GET A BIG RUG regardless!!

Rare Bird
16-01-2011, 17:35
Well i have granite slabs under mi speakers i use spikes cups under them, i fitted self adhesive thin cork pad under each cup stop them moving abart.

Jonboy
16-01-2011, 17:50
Granite chopping boards from a supermarket, about a tenner a piece, i saw some in Sainsburys the other day, got mine from Asda a few years back, i use them as isolation platforms on my Dresser come hifi stand

Alex_UK
16-01-2011, 20:52
Thanks chaps for the responses. I do move the speakers around regularly, so the SuperSpikes are still favourite. Also, I am already dreading the sound changes as Paul has mentioned, but part of the "deal" is that we get a bigger (and additional) rug, and will also be bolstering up the cushion count (sorry!) as well as getting heavier curtains, and a bean-bag or three to help absorb the reflections.

Pretty much decided that "engineered wood" is the way to go (if we must) as it is not as reflective, slippy or as resonant as laminate, as well as looking and feeling nicer, but without the alleged drawbacks of solid wood.

Alex_UK
16-01-2011, 20:52
Another double post due to forum problems... :steam:

The Grand Wazoo
16-01-2011, 21:15
If you're going for engineered wood Alex, try to make sure it's got a decent thickness of wood on top so you can re-finish it if it gets damaged.

Alex_UK
16-01-2011, 21:17
If you're going for engineered wood Alex, try to make sure it's got a decent thickness of wood on top so you can re-finish it if it gets damaged.

I knew I could rely on you! ;) What would you regard as being "decent thickness" - the one I'm favouring at the mo looks to be about 3mm - is that enough? :scratch:

The Grand Wazoo
16-01-2011, 21:25
3mm is about the minimum I'd be happy with. 6mm is plenty. Some of the stuff I see is only 0.5 mm thick - you can remove that just by sanding!

Alex_UK
16-01-2011, 21:39
3mm is about the minimum I'd be happy with. 6mm is plenty. Some of the stuff I see is only 0.5 mm thick - you can remove that just by sanding!

Ta muchly!

zanash
19-01-2011, 14:04
An off the wall suggestion ....

I used spikes ..but when changing to a laminate floor ..these were obviously going to cause issues !

I'd seen auralex foam for speaker isolation in the past and spotted they had a product called mopads ...I bought a set for about £30 and sat them under my martin logan aerius i's ....

stunning ...they eliminated all the speaker floor issues that I'd been experiencing [though I did not know that was the problem !]

if your speakers are too heavy for these then try the auralex foam and thin mdf sheet cut to the foot print of your speakers ....

I've been down the granite slab route ,but for me it made the problem worse ...

my laminate is underlayed by extra thic sound absorbing foam on concrete.

Alex_UK
19-01-2011, 20:58
Thanks zanash, worth looking into, especially as a much cheaper option.

Cliff
20-01-2011, 15:22
Curious as to why you think a change to real wood floors will ruin the sound of your system?
If an area rug is used between the speakers,first reflections can be absorbed to give a pleasant acoustic.

Wanted to suggest a cheap alternative for protection of the floors from spike damage which also might improve the sound of your speakers: 3/8 inch birch plywood "slabs" or platforms under each speaker. Spike your speakers directly into the birch, and then you should be able to slide the speakers around on your wood floor rather easily without damage.
I can and do.

Plus, you might find a certain musical warmth, slight, is imparted to the speakers compared to spiking directly to the wood floor with some sort of metal spike disc or protector of synthetic material.

The Grand Wazoo
20-01-2011, 17:28
Another thing you could do Alex (& I once did this) is to use some of your flooring offcuts to make some little plinths similar to what Cliff describes above. Use plenty of glue in the tongues & grooves & put a simple picture frame surround made from some timber moulding of your choice to finish the edges. You'll have to plane off the tongue from one side. Very minimal DIY skills required but something that looks good & blend in with the floor.

Alex_UK
20-01-2011, 22:08
Thanks guys, makes sense, and would save a few quid, especially if the speakers get replaced...

zanash
21-01-2011, 07:33
cliff are you married ?....

if yes then you have an understanding partner ....!

in my case we changed from carpet to laminate ...why would a none hifi wife want to go back to a small patch of carpet in the midle of her new floor ..

fortunately in my case the auralex foam worked its magic ......

I'd previously been using a beheringer deq2496 to treat the room with the obvious downside of the extra processing

Alex_UK
21-01-2011, 16:09
Curious as to why you think a change to real wood floors will ruin the sound of your system?

Missed this the first time around - I assumed that the carpet at the moment is absorbing a lot of the sound rather than reflecting it back into the room, which is what a smooth wooden floor would do? And wouldn't those reflections muddle the sound? Don't know, maybe it will sound better and my worries are unfounded!

Alex_UK
21-01-2011, 16:13
cliff are you married ?....

if yes then you have an understanding partner ....!

in my case we changed from carpet to laminate ...why would a none hifi wife want to go back to a small patch of carpet in the midle of her new floor ..

fortunately in my case the auralex foam worked its magic ......

I'd previously been using a beheringer deq2496 to treat the room with the obvious downside of the extra processing

My wife definitely wants a rug in the middle of the room, as we do now, so I don't think you need to be single! I think aversion to soft furnishings is more of a man thing than the other way round?!

Cliff
21-01-2011, 18:05
Hi guys,

I do have a very understanding wife--or I would have been booted to the curb along time ago.

But you shouldn't need an understanding wife in order to decorate your room and wood floors with an attractive area rug. Mine looks great, I think, and I generally find such a set up to be my preferred aesthetic as well as acoustic.

I firmly believe, based on empirical observation and theory, that wood is the best flooring material for a listening room. I believe it is what most of the great concert halls use. But, obviously, wood floored rooms do benefit from acoustical tuning with rugs, pillows, furniture etc..
i also am a believer in the acoustical properties of natural materials over synthetic, so I would try for wool rugs, cotton or linen drapes, etc.

But just my opinion.
I will try to post a pick of my rug, wood floors, and speakers to prove that it looks pretty good.

cheers,
Cliff

Cliff
21-01-2011, 18:24
:)Proof that an area rug and wood floor ain't too shabby( hopefully, I don't know if this will work):

Alex_UK
21-01-2011, 18:46
Great Cliff - that is similar to how my rug is and will stay in the same place with the wood floor - if we can ever decide on the wood! (I'm favouring American Black Walnut at the moment but proper shopping session tomorrow...)

Cliff
21-01-2011, 19:20
American Black Walnut, oooh, nice!:)

Alex_UK
27-02-2011, 14:00
Well as my speakers are on borrowed time (hopefully) - I shelled out a whole £13.95 on some feet designed for office furniture. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320654608148&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_1156) - a pack of M8 nuts from B&Q to give me the option to adjust and lock in place, and job's a good 'un. Not yet had the chance to listen properly yet, but they look rather good I think!

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/Living%20Room/IMG_4479.jpg?t=1298815055

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Alex_Steel1969/Living%20Room/IMG_4477.jpg?t=1298815055

And very happy with the floor and decor - will post some more in my gallery page.

Welder
27-02-2011, 14:03
Corrr. posh gaff!

Avatar will soon sort that out when her and a couple of mates start painting :lol:

Rare Bird
27-02-2011, 14:04
Who's flooring is it Alex? They obviosly removed the skirting boards!

Alex_UK
27-02-2011, 14:14
Who's flooring is it Alex? They obviosly removed the skirting boards!

It's engineered American Black Walnut - made by Elka Flooring, 6mm of real wood on a ply base, bought and fitted through a local company, and yes, new skirting boards - looks much better than a trim round the edge.

Alex_UK
27-02-2011, 14:14
Corrr. posh gaff!

Avatar will soon sort that out when her and a couple of mates start painting :lol:

She's in bed, and we just finished, so it will be a tip in an hour! :lol:

Rare Bird
27-02-2011, 14:49
It's engineered American Black Walnut - made by Elka Flooring, 6mm of real wood on a ply base, bought and fitted through a local company, and yes, new skirting boards - looks much better than a trim round the edge.

Aye strips look so shit..6mm a good thickness to engineered wood flooring although i think Elka is a bit thicker maybe 7/8mm!

The Grand Wazoo
27-02-2011, 14:54
Looks good Alex!

Marco
27-02-2011, 15:07
Yesh, I always saw you as a lilac sort of chap - bet you have shirts and ties to match (or maybe a wee dresh?) :eyebrows:

Anyway, glad you're happy with the final result, daftee... :)

Marco.

Alex_UK
27-02-2011, 15:10
Aye strips look so shit..6mm a good thickness to engineered wood flooring although i think Elka is a bit thicker maybe 7/8mm!

You're right, just measured it, more like 8mm though the chap in shop said 6mm. (thanks again to Chris for recommending a good thickness! and he and Marco for the kind comments!)

keiths
27-02-2011, 15:11
Looks great Alex. Any impact on the sound?

Alex_UK
27-02-2011, 15:31
Looks great Alex. Any impact on the sound?

Cheers. Re. the sound, doesn't seem so at the moment, but will have a chance tomorrow on my own to give it a good try!

Rare Bird
27-02-2011, 16:25
You're right, just measured it, more like 8mm though the chap in shop said 6mm. (thanks again to Chris for recommending a good thickness! and he and Marco for the kind comments!)

Hi Alex
How much you pay for it if you don't mind me asking as it's one of my jobs i have to get done this year, Engineered flooring in the living room.What type of underlay did they use?

Alex_UK
28-02-2011, 00:22
Hi Alex
How much you pay for it if you don't mind me asking as it's one of my jobs i have to get done this year, Engineered flooring in the living room.What type of underlay did they use?

Not sure what the cost of the wood was exactly, as I never asked for a breakdown, but I reckon it worked out somewhere around £85 a square metre (which would fit in roughly with the cheapest I could find it online (http://www.lfdirect.co.uk/products/details/1130.html)) - unfortunately walnut is a lot more expensive than oak, but it was what we had our hearts set on because of the colours and grain structure.

The underlay was some sort of white foam stuff with a silver thermal layer on the bottom - sorry, I didn't get too excited about it! ;)

Welder
28-02-2011, 00:27
What! Not excited about hardwood flooring underlay! Good god man, have you no sense of adventure and fun in life.

(I would have been there with a laser making sure they got the stuff level and took it right up to the walls below skirting point :lol:)

CageyH
09-05-2014, 17:18
I'm looking for some effective, but cheap. spike cups to see if decoupling my speakers from the floor slightly will help.
I have stand mounted Cyrus CLS70 on a suspended wooden floor, and I was looking at the Transfi Isolation damping discs.
Has anybody used these? Any feedback? ISOLATION-DAMPING-DISCS-SPIKE-CONE-FEET-PROTECTORS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISOLATION-DAMPING-DISCS-SPIKE-CONE-FEET-PROTECTORS-/170918550076?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cb8a1a3c)

Spectral Morn
09-05-2014, 17:20
I'm looking for some effective, but cheap. spike cups to see if decoupling my speakers from the floor slightly will help.
I have stand mounted Cyrus CLS70 on a suspended wooden floor, and I was looking at the Transfi Isolation damping discs.
Has anybody used these? Any feedback? ISOLATION-DAMPING-DISCS-SPIKE-CONE-FEET-PROTECTORS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISOLATION-DAMPING-DISCS-SPIKE-CONE-FEET-PROTECTORS-/170918550076?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cb8a1a3c)

What issues are you having?


Regards Neil

CageyH
09-05-2014, 17:39
I have had my system set up on the suspended floor for 5 years now, and much prefer the headphone sound. It's almost like the soundstage is muddled in comparison.
I am not sure if I am missing something or not, so I need a way to test the interface of the stand directly on the floor to see if the sound improves.
Some sorbothane sheet may do the trick, but the spike shoes from Cyrus are tiny, so they will probably overload sorbothane?

istari_knight
09-05-2014, 17:39
Personally, I've always found spiked stands on suspended wooden floors to completely kill the sound... Are your's removable ? Certainly worth a try if so.

CageyH
09-05-2014, 17:47
Yes. I can remove the spikes. I'll try it over the weekend.
If that works, any suggestion on what I can mount my Cyrus Tripod stands on?
They look like these:
http://www.jefferson-hifi-video.com/produit/CYRUS/CYRUS-CLS-70-3268.jpg

sjs
09-05-2014, 17:49
I used atacama feet and they helped a lot, then I got a granite slab with vibrapods between the speakers and granite and that was a massive improvement.
Seems the less you can excite the wooden floor the better.

CageyH
09-05-2014, 17:53
I was thinking of Blue Horizon spike shoes, or a couple of sets of superspikes, but I am not sure that would help?

istari_knight
09-05-2014, 18:07
Ah, I see your problem ! Spike shoes on granite plinths maybe ?

Something like these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-Fi-pair-granite-isolation-platform-speaker-stand-250x250x30-black-absolute-/261475871737

Would be cheaper from your local stonemasons.

Gordon Steadman
09-05-2014, 18:14
Take four of her majesty's coins of the realm. (I use 2 centime pieces out here) centre punch or drill a small indent.

Stick'em under the spikes.

Apologise to her majesty and say it was the previous owner yer honour.

CageyH
09-05-2014, 18:20
I have been running something like that for a while.
The speakers came with spike shoes supplied, but I want to see if I can improve the sound with a cheap/free tweak if possible.

Gordon Steadman
09-05-2014, 18:36
I have been running something like that for a while.
The speakers came with spike shoes supplied, but I want to see if I can improve the sound with a cheap/free tweak if possible.

Maybe the phones are just better than the speakers?? Then again, I find the phones a bit more immediate but prefer the speakers for the spread of sound. Is there something specific about the sound? have you tried getting really close to the speakers to see if the muddiness changes? Its a bit difficult to know what to suggest without knowing how it sounds.

I have always found the sound to be better with the spikes on although my wife preferred it when I replaced them with wooden cones. Its easy for me to knock a set up but you could try eBay. The Guru set cost a fortune.

CageyH
09-05-2014, 20:36
I think I'll try a few things over the weekend, and report back.
Removal of the cones.
Sorbothane domes.
Bricks.
Paving slabs etc.

CageyH
10-05-2014, 21:36
Local DIY store has grey granite or slate slabs.
Granite is 50cm x 50cm x 2cm, weighs in at 13.5 kg per slab. 4 slabs would cost me €40.
Slate is 40cm x 40cm x 1cm, weighs in at 3.2kg per slab. 6 slabs for €35.
Obviously, I would stack them up (and probably glue them together), but which will be better?

Tempted by the Granite as it's heavier.