Heart issues +my folks...

[DavidF]

Hi

Ok, apologies for jumping in the deep end having pretty much just got got here.

Also apols for trying dal with a potentially major health issue on a HiFi forum, just loking for general pointers for themoment.

My Dad's just 80 and my Mum is 72, both with controllable angina.

I live locally to them, spend time with them so its a possibilly I shall be faced with dealing a heart attack situation at some point.

I've just been having a google for some ideas and came up with this..




"Ok, so as a bystander, this is exactly what I would like for you to do if you believe someone is having a heart attack

1. Call 911
2. Have them take four baby aspirin OR one adult aspirin and make them chew it. (You want a total of 324-325mg. Four baby aspirin=324mg and is best because they're made to be chewable. One adult aspirin=325mg) Do not have them swallow the aspirin!!
3. Keep them comfortable and reassure them!
4. If you can, ask the patient their age (911 dispatchers will ask you their age anyway) and if they've had a heart attack or any heart problems before. Try to figure out when the person started having the chest pain. There are other questions you could ask, but you shouldn't get too personal with a patient if you're only a bystander. I'm just thinking about these things because if the patient did end up coding, I can at least have some background I may not have been able to get that may clue me into a few things such as whether or not it was a heart attack or something else.

If the patient goes unresponsive and you're not trained in CPR, begin Hands-Only CPR. It's fantastic and anyone can do it. All you do is call 911 (which you probably have already done), and then push hard and fast in the center of the chest. This is a new form of CPR from the American Heart Association. http://handsonlycpr.org/ And don't be afraid! Some CPR is better than no CPR. The patient is dead and you cannot make them more dead.

Don't worry about the recovery position, and you do not need to raise their legs. If they're hypotensive, you should lie them down. If they have CHF, you should NOT lie them down. You probably will have no idea if they have either issue, so just make them comfortable and reassure them until EMS arrives.
Source(s):
Myself - I'm a paramedic and it would be GREAT if someone did that for my patient before I got there! ESPECIALLY the aspirin thing. That is a HUGE deal."





Is this good advise ,guys, especially the asparin idea?

[DavidF]

I have to say with no medical training at all I would most unhappy about shoving tablets down my folks necks' especiallyas they are on increasing amounts of medication as it is.

[Ali Tait]

Just to note, in the UK at least, a first aider must not give any medication. At most, help them to take it themselves.
As for CPR, the best thing is to get trained. Perhaps ask your employers to send you on a course. Due to the nature of my job, I do a four day course every two years in basic first aid and CPR. I'm sure a lot of employers would be willing if you asked. Most people do a one day course, which is sufficient to learn enough to save someone's life. Why was this never taught in school??

[DavidF]

Just to note, in the UK at least, a first aider must not give any medication. At most, help them to take it themselves.
As for CPR, the best thing is to get trained. Perhaps ask your employers to send you on a course. Due to the nature of my job, I do a four day course every two years in basic first aid and CPR. I'm sure a lot of employers would be willing if you asked. Most people do a one day course, which is sufficient to learn enough to save someone's life. Why was this never taught in school??



I work for an agency which is a bit different.

Good tips tho'.

[John]

Doing a first aid training course is something I recommend to anybody

[Ali Tait]

Yes indeed. Well in your situation David, I'd look into paying for yourself. I don't think it would be too expensive.

[colinB]

My mates dad has had a history of heart disease ( quad bypass ) and yet when he had a stroke last year, none of the family new what it was or what to do.
The paramedic wasnt called until an hour later, in which time he had suffered extensive damage to his body and is now incapacitated in a home at the age of 55.
I know my friend lives with the guilt everyday. He is indian and they can be a bit fatalistic as part of their culture. But he realises if he had acted with a bit of knowledge his dad might be at home now.
Those public health adverts about stroke victims came out shortly after that which must have been difficult to watch.

[DavidF]

Yes indeed. Well in your situation David, I'd look into paying for yourself. I don't think it would be too expensive.



Yes, good idea.

[DavidF]

My mates dad has had a history of heart disease ( quad bypass ) and yet when he had a stroke last year, none of the family new what it was or what to do.
The paramedic wasnt called until an hour later, in which time he had suffered extensive damage to his body and is now incapacitated in a home at the age of 55.
I know my friend lives with the guilt everyday. He is indian and they can be a bit fatalistic as part of their culture. But he realises if he had acted with a bit of knowledge his dad might be at home now.
Those public health adverts about stroke victims came out shortly after that which must have been difficult to watch.

Easily done.

I'm not sure thought how far you go as a "layamn". These causes can't hope to give you the knowledge of a Doctor and starting doing CPR strikes me being not for the unskilled (I nearly wrote not for the feint hearted....very bad play on words). Like you say, I just don't want to be there when something goes wrong and not haviing blinking clue.

I suspect the best the best thing you can do is to call the services as quickly as possible and keep the patient comfortable.

I suppose I'm just looking for few extra pointers like feet up/feet down (?), keep warm/keep cool? etc etc.

We are lucky to be a pretty healthy family, Grandma did ok till about 98/99and Dad's elder bros is still OK (driving but not as much) at 83ish.

[DavidF]

...but look at this....

This is from BBC web site....again suggesting administering asparin..:scratch:




Symptoms
Severe chest pain that doesn't ease with rest
Breathlessness and nausea
Giddiness
Sense of doom
Irregular pulse
Ashen, cold skin and blue lips
Top
First aid aims
Make casualty comfortable and get emergency help.

Top
Actions
Sit casualty in a supported position with knees bent
Call 999, ask for an ambulance and say you suspect a heart attack
If the person is conscious, give them a 300 mg tablet of Aspirin to chew
Top
Further action
Monitor the casualty's condition and be prepared to give resuscitation if they lose consciousness.

The British Red Cross last medically reviewed this article in December 2009.

[Ali Tait]

They seem to change things every time I go on the course. CPR is easy to do with a few pointers. A good way to start might be to buy the Red Cross first aid book.

[Mr Pig]

Why was this never taught in school??

Possibly because the kids would kill each other with chest compressions in the playground!

I'm only kidding, although I did watch a mate of mine knock a guy unconscious doing something like that.

I think they did teach some basic human body DIY at school, I vaguely remember it.

[Haselsh1]

I am a firm believer in 'If in doubt, leave it out'

[Mr Pig]

I am a firm believer in 'If in doubt, leave it out'

Maybe but as the quote said, if they are already dead you can't make them deader.

[DavidF]

H nmay well ahve apoint.

I know my Mum has some firm views on her willingness to be wheelchair bound and not much use to anyone for twenty years.

I think I'd rather know my limitations , 'cos she wouldn't thank me for that a great deal.

I'll have a read of the Red Cross stuff (good idea) and see what that says.

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

[Ali Tait]

CPR really isn't difficult. Once you've had a practice on "Annie" the CPR dummy, you'd be confident enough.

[Dave Hewitt]

As someone who has suffered seven heart attacks,take it from me you would eat abox of aspirin if it would take the pain away.dave.:(

[Mr Pig]

you would eat a box of aspirin if it would take the pain away.

If you eat a box of aspirin it just might!

[Dave Hewitt]

:lolsign:

[Spectral Morn]

The theory is fine and doing a course is a great idea but here is the question.... can you work calmly and professionally on a loved one ? I don't think so.

I have been there with my Dad having a heart attack way back in 89 (he is still around) I could not have done anything to help training or not.....the terror of possibly watching a loved one die in front of you is terrible..it can reduce many to idiot level (not all though) as panic sets in. I think its easier (though not been in the situation) to help someone you are not attached to.

However in your position I think training and approved medical knowledge/treatment (why not ask their doctor or a paramedic what you should and should not do) is worthwhile having but probably get someone to ring the emergency number asap as well. Put it on speed dial so you can help and ring at the same time.

I sincerely hope you don't have to face a situation like this ever or anyone else here on the forum.




Regards D S D L

[Rare Bird]

I've never been one to take Heart Attacks seriously, i certainly wont get obsessed thinking that Keep fit & jogging is what you must do to cut down the risks nor will i give up excess drinking & eating for it either. I personally do not value life enough to care & certainly would not live in mysery trying to follow this years guidlined fads. Whats good for you this years that was bad last?

[Spectral Morn]

As someone who has suffered seven heart attacks,take it from me you would eat abox of aspirin if it would take the pain away.dave.:(

Seven Dave :(

My Dad had I think had four, the last one apparently sorted out the part of his heart that was causing the problem. He is on medication and still around....mixture of bad diet and extreme stress.

Glad you are feeling better now.


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

I've never been one to take Heart Attacks seriously, i certainly wont get obsessed thinking that Keep fit & jogging is what you must do to cut down the risks nor will i give up excess drinking & eating for it either. I personally do not value life enough to care & certainly would not live in mysery trying to follow this years guidlined fads. Whats good for you this years that was bad last?

That last bit is true Andre but apparently the pain of a heart attack is unbelievable and of course you might survive but be damaged/handicapped.


Regards D S D L

[Dave Hewitt]

:lolsign:

[DavidF]

The theory is fine and doing a course is a great idea but here is the question.... can you work calmly and professionally on a loved one ? I don't think so.

I have been there with my Dad having a heart attack way back in 89 (he is still around) I could not have done anything to help training or not.....the terror of possibly watching a loved one die in front of you is terrible..it can reduce many to idiot level (not all though) as panic sets in. I think its easier (though not been in the situation) to help someone you are not attached to.

However in your position I think training and approved medical knowledge/treatment (why not ask their doctor or a paramedic what you should and should not do) is worthwhile having but probably get someone to ring the emergency number asap as well. Put it on speed dial so you can help and ring at the same time.

I sincerely hope you don't have to face a situation like this ever or anyone else here on the forum.




Regards D S D L

The point in your first pragraph I think is a very valid one (The last one too!). Not sure about talking to thier Doctor, I think that would cause paralysis to start with but having a dig is a good idea, and speed dial too.



They are actually growing old quite disgracefully, navigating a 60' canal boat around the inland wateways. Dad was a biggish bloke at one time and is still able to deal with the locks and gear perfectly well. For now.

[Alex_UK]

i certainly wont get obsessed thinking that Keep fit & jogging is what you must do to cut down the risks

I must admit, I do find it hard to believe - I mean, if I drive 100,000 miles in my car, the engine, gearbox, tyres, suspension etc. wear out - if I leave it on the drive, they don't - so surely leaving my sorry arse on the sofa means all my bits won't wear out? :scratch:

Being serious though, I think everyone should do some basic first aid - I've not saved a life, but certainly had a couple of incidents where I've been able to at least try and help.

[Rare Bird]

I walk 2 miles a day to work & back that's good enough for me..

[DavidF]

I walk 2 miles a day to work & back that's good enough for me..


I think that's a good approach to take.