Townshend Avalon

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Firstly, Thank you Nigel for delivering and giving me this turntable ... Obviously I haven't heard it yet, but that's not the point ... It was very generous and I definitely owe you a favour! :) (the link to my forum is in my signature if you can't read my handwriting)

So yeah, here it is in it's armless splendor

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/da96dd59.jpg

And on the rack

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/afbc78a6.jpg

Sorry about the crap iPhone photos, I'm gonna do some set up photos with my real camera soon...

I have a rega 301 on the way soon hopefully

So... more to come...

Cheers again Nigel, and nice to meet you! :)

[Techno Commander]

Good looking turntable. :)

[Rare Bird]

Thi was a trough for it on auction a couple weeks back

[vinylspinner]

Hi Hamish,

Nice to have met you today, just email me if you need any help / advice on setting up your new arm.

Nigel

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Nice one buddy!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Thi was a trough for it on auction a couple weeks back

What possible use is that information to me now Andre ;)

[Rare Bird]

What possible use is that information to me now Andre ;)

Sorry i mentioned it :rolleyes:

[satanfriendly]

Get a trough on it as soon as you can and you will have a killer TT. Trounces Rega's and beats on the door of many other good tables.

Had one for a few years and loved it.

[Rare Bird]

Get a trough on it as soon as you can and you will have a killer TT. Trounces Rega's and beats on the door of many other good tables.

Had one for a few years and loved it.

O you can't tell Hamish anything he knows best :rolleyes:

[satanfriendly]

Without the trough, it's just.....well......another ordinary turntable. Townshends are all about damping the Max T way.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

O you can't tell Hamish anything he knows best :rolleyes:

:lolsign: bloody cheek ;)

i was simply stating that telling me
Thi was a trough for it on auction a couple weeks back was not much use now andre ... implying that the information might have been more useful
a couple weeks back i was avin a laugh with ya matey!

it is indeed my intention to get a trough for it at some stage ... firstly i need to work out what a trough is, how it works and if there are any other relevant parts required ... all information i shall be asking for as soon as i can (if ever) afford such a thing ... for now though, i don't yet even have an arm for it!!

[satanfriendly]

You will need the trough and the silicon fluid for the same. Think they are pretty standard, but Max at Townshend is easy to talk to. You will also need the 'outrigger and paddle' which goes on the end of the arm. You are probably looking at a similar cost to a starter arm like a RB251.

If you are stuck VE has a wealth of info on Townshend decks and probably the manuals. That is unless you are another unfortunate banned soul.

[keiths]

Probably just me, but the thought of having a trough full of sticky, gunky shyte sloshing around a few millimetres above my records never filled me with the greatest enthusiasm.

[Rare Bird]

Doesnt slosh about cos it is more like the consistency of treacle...The arm paddle never leaves the trough anyway just parks up on the step

[keiths]

Yeah, I'm sure it' fine - just the thought of it always gave me the willies!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/d59d7561.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/6629ce74.jpg

Half an hour later

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/49d2e9cb.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/abe4d6fe.jpg

Easy peasy ... And very happy with how it sounds ...

Cheers for getting me the arm Dave

Cheers again for the table Nigel ...

I can listen to my vinyl again and it sound perfectly respectable and was little or no fuss to set up ... Perfect!

[The Grand Wazoo]

Nicely done!

[John]

Well done Hamish I must admit I am really missing vinyl

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I'm def enjoying having it back John ...
It's pretty easy to listen to this deck... Not as analytical or precise as the techie was but plenty of music though, I'm a very happy bunny ... I can move on from the loss of my techie now :)

I love this - if anyone thinks rega would be annoyed at me duplicating a bit of thief instruction book let me know or remove it - otherwise, what a fansatic thing to say in a manual for a tone arm ...

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/6ddfcad3.jpg

Especially the last sentence ... Genius ... Just what I wanted from my whole most recent experience of a turntable ... Some music without the thoughts of fuss :)

Of course that's not to say I won't change my mind and want to tinker in the future ... But I'm happy not to think bout that for now I think ...

[Rare Bird]

You could still play with a Michell Technoweight..A Denon 'DL160' might be good cart.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Yeah, Robin in audio t was telling me today I could still get a techno weight ... I probably will one day ... Not for a while though ... It's money I can't even begin justify for now ...
This ortophon 2m red seems fine for now too

[stewthedarrenner]

Hi Hamish,
as the others have said... get a trough for it, it really does make that much difference.
Having always been poor :( i've never had the luxury of keep changing my kit, so i tend to find something i like and stick with it ;)
i bought my avalon secon hand way back in '94 at fanthorpes in hull for the princely sum of £170, it came fitted with a linn akito mk1, the cranfield trough and a clamp.
it looked the mutts nuts when i first saw it with its piano black gloss sheen on its upper surface.
I checked it out as best i could, i'd heard of 'the rock' and 'the seismic sink' and that was about it (these were the days before you could google things, hell, back then googling meant something totally different :lol:),
Anyway i found out the trough alone cost £130 so thought i'd give it a go.
i was so glad i did, its a cracking deck.
i'd moved from a thorens td160 mk2 with an 'original' mission 774 arm, which itself had a little trough filled with silicon fluid, tho' where the cranfield sits at the outside of the platter the trough on the mission sat behind the cueing mechanism just in front of the bearing/main pillar assembly.
i'd been happy with the thorens/mission set-up....until i got the avalon, which was a step up on sound quality.
dont get me wrong, ( and no nasty comments from thorens or mission owners please ;) ), both the 160 + 774 were good bits of kit, (in fact i wish i'd kept them when i see what they sell for these days - c. £300 for both, think i flogged mine to a mate for £30)
it's just that the avalon sounded better, and as both were good decks and both were good arms it seems that the bit that made the most difference was the trough...
i dont know what they are selling for these days as most sell with decks, the owners not usually prepared to sell them seperately, but the last time i looked at Max's webpage the new version, made out of metal not plastic, was selling for c. £500 :eek::lol:
the trough bolts to the deck with 1 allen bolt and fits in the hole at the front of your deck thats got a plastic cover over it.

new trough fluid from -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230599686980

and belts from -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Elite-Townshend-MKIII-Rock-Reference-Turntable-Belts_W0QQitemZ390301194038QQcategoryZ48648QQcmdZV iewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DDLSL %252BSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BF ICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D290538014 905%252B290538014905%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8 040001679303514271

both are from analogue seduction as max don't sell them :rolleyes:
if you do get a trough, you will need the outrigger bracket and paddle to be able to use it.
the bracket sits atop the headshell and sticks out in front of it, where the paddle then sits in the trough fluid.
for a close up, pictures 3 + 4 here -
http://townshendaudio.com/turntables/the-rock-7/
you MUST have the bracket or the trough is useless.

well, that's my little ramble and trip down memory lane, i hope the info is of use to you :)

[stewthedarrenner]

:doh:
typical, didn't see the last two pages before i posted, my eyes aint what they used to be :lol:
nice rega, i'd still go for the trough tho' ;)
and as for the silicone splilling.... in 20 yrs i've never had one drip on a disc :)
anyway, as the rega info say - its about the listening and enjoying, and thats one thing i've always liked with the avalon, you just sit back and enjoy, no spring, adjustments etc.
I am an avid tweaker with most things but sometimes you just want the kit to get on with it whilst you enjoy the music.. :)

[Marco]

Hi mate,

Welcome to AoS :)

Could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself properly to our community, by providing your real first name (Stewart?) and details of your system components and what music you like to listen to. This is required of all new members.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[MartinT]

it is indeed my intention to get a trough for it at some stage

I saw a Townshend trough & paddle kit going for £40 at last Sunday's Bracknell Audio Fayre. Sorry, I didn't know you wanted one at the time.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Pants ... £40 ... Would have been a no brainer! Ah well I you see the same again let me know ....

[southall-1998]

Sorry if this question sounds silly.

How does the Rock turntable sound with out the trough?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

You asking me matey?
Mines an Avalon not a rock... Sounds great to me!

[MCRU]

You asking me matey?
Mines an Avalon not a rock... Sounds great to me!

Have you actually bought an arm boss?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

No, I just mean the gentle noise of the motor turning the platter sounds good .... .... ;)
Yes I have a rega 301

[Alex_UK]

No, I just mean the gentle noise of the motor turning the platter sounds good .... .... ;)

:D

You crack me up sometimes! Most times, actually! ;)

[vinylspinner]

Hamish,

There is a trough on ebay at the moment, the seller is Stamford Audio.

I think that the standard Rock version will be too tall for the Avalon as the platter is thinner, it may be an idea to check this out before buying one, the height of mine is 44mm from the deck to the underside of the swing out arm, the platter height is 40mm.
Hope this helps.

On another note, I use one of my rock turntables without the damper quite a lot, still sounds good to me.

Nigel

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Cheers Nigel
I have sent the guy a message to see if he knows specifically, I have had a few people point this out to me now ...
I'll get the measuring tape out ...

[AlexM]

Hi Hamish,

Good catch - I enjoyed my Avalon with an Alphason HR-100s arm for many years, until I sold it in October 09.

I found that it imaged pretty well, and was very good at suppressing surface clicks. I used mine exclusively with the trough and paddle rigger after comparing it to the sound without this. I found the bass frequencies to be cleaner and resistance to environmental vibration much better (shock/footfall and acoustic vibrations). The presentation with the trough is cohesive and convincing, although very slightly coarse and not the last word in detail.

I'd recommend the best isolation you can use under this - it is quite sensitive, especially with the lid fitted. Also check carefully for accurate levelling - the sorbothane feet are non-adjustable and the back foot collapsed somewhat after the cat took to sleeping on it under a lamp for a while :). It definately sounds a lot better with the lid off.

I'd also suggest stripping, cleaning and adjusting the bearing carefully. Mine suffered from wear on the carbide ball and thrust pad, which I sorted by rotating it to an unworn part of the surface and substituting a PTFE thrust bearing. Clearances between the bronze sleeve and housing were also fairly 'generous', so check for sub-platter rocking and adjust the oil viscosity upwards if you see some play. Max Townshend told me that the bearing wasn't their best effort, and that he recommended standard multigrade motor oil. I used graphite-loaded oil, but settled on 75w gear oil after trying a few.

Hope you manage to get an outrigger and trough for yours - have fun.

Regards,
Alex

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Cheers Alex
It's sat on a Quadraspire rack with these little music works acrylic supports for the tt shelf ... The rack is sat in the fireplace which is the only solid bit of floor in the room ... I can stomp around the room quite happily and it doesn't affect playback at all... As for level ...not sure, haven't checked ...
I have to take the lid off to use it as there is only 4" clearance above the deck ... So I guess that's a plus point!

I'm very happy with it, i may get a trough one day, but I'm in no hurry..

As for sound, i find it a very pleasant listen... It's def a keeper!!

Cheers

[The Grand Wazoo]

So glad it worked out for you Hamish mate - I re-read the whole saga (loss of Techie/Thorens woes/arm selection threads included) just the other night.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I know man, right old faff ... To be honest, that lot and getting my actives has changed my perspective on this hifi lark ...
Cheers Chris, im very happy with it all now!

[Batty]

I have the instructions for a bearing service for the Rock/Avalon if there is any interest PM me your email and I'll pass them on.

EDIT thumbs added, you may be able to use these

[The Vinyl Adventure]

That's great, cheers, looks ... Scary... !?

[Neil McCauley]

Max must be feeling pretty confident 'cos he has a full page ad for this in June-issue Hi-fi News - without a review from them. Either that, or they're offering pages at next to nothing.

[Batty]

That's great, cheers, looks ... Scary... !?

Totally agree, I have not done mine.

[AlexM]

I did mine just like this, but didn't replace the ball bearing - I just rotated the worn face away from the contact patch now and then. It is well worth doing from time to time as the materials are quite soft. As soon as you see a dimple on the bearing surface, friction and noise will be increasing. bearing wear can be an issue with this deck. I eventually put a ptfe pill under the bb and this worked really well until I sold the deck.

Cheers,
Alex

[Batty]

Thanks for that advice Alex

[Minstrel SE]

I have just been reminded of this turntable because I was searching for the Mission 774 tonearm.

I remember looking at the adverts for the Townsend Avalon and I had forgotten all about it :) Theres just something about that fluid trough which inspires and worries me at the same time. I think the worry and lack of convenience wins out which is probably why the paddle didnt catch on. I wonder what the physics of the fluid damping is when related to tracking and the tonearm.

I keep thinking its a sledgehammer to crack a nut principle of turntable design but people say it made a real difference

I still fancy having a quick go with the Avalon though. Anybody still running one with the trough fluid and paddle? :)

[karma67]

im using one on my rock 2,it really isn't any problem or hassle to use,the trough just swings out of the way when changing records,the difference it makes is very noticeable.
whats there to worry about?

[Minstrel SE]

whats there to worry about?

Erm a trough full of fluid several millimetres from the surface of the record. Swinging it backwards and forwards every time a record is placed on the platter and I bet it takes some pernickity setting up with different arms and cartridges :).

Seriously I would love to see it close up and exactly what contact is made in that trough. I might see if there are any You tube videos on the Avalon or Rock

[farflungstar]

My intention is to get a Rock as a second deck - I completely get the trough and can't wait to hear one. The trough is only about 2 thirds full and the way everything moves makes it difficult to spill anything.

Damping, whether at the headshell or base definitely improves things in my opinion and experience.

I've even toyed wth the idea of buying a trough and paddle for the sp10.

[karma67]

Erm a trough full of fluid several millimetres from the surface of the record. Swinging it backwards and forwards every time a record is placed on the platter and I bet it takes some pernickity setting up with different arms and cartridges :).

Seriously I would love to see it close up and exactly what contact is made in that trough. I might see if there are any You tube videos on the Avalon or Rock

honestly its not a bad as you are imagining.

[speedracer]

I have the same as Jamie123, a Elite Rock II, and at first I was worried about the trough and how you keep the fluid off the records, but once you have played 2 or 3 LP's it becomes perfectly natural and you just don't think of it at all.It really is a very good deck too, especially so when you see how little money they fetch when one comes up for sale, stone cold bargain.

[Pete The Cat]

I have the same as Jamie123, a Elite Rock II, and at first I was worried about the trough and how you keep the fluid off the records, but once you have played 2 or 3 LP's it becomes perfectly natural and you just don't think of it at all.It really is a very good deck too, especially so when you see how little money they fetch when one comes up for sale, stone cold bargain.

Same here. It's no more problematic than any aspect of getting a record off the shelf and playing it.

The II is a well kept secret in terms of performance for its second hand price.

Pete

[Jason P]

I wonder what the physics of the fluid damping is when related to tracking and the tonearm.

As it was explained to me once, it's a bit like being in a swimming pool. If you're in the water and gently move your hand from side to side you can do it easily, as the resistance of the fluid is minimal. But the faster you try and move your hand the stronger the resistance - until eventually you get a kind of hydraulic lock. So this works in the same way - minimising any micromovement between the arm and cantilever by damping all movement above a certain frequency, and presenting what is effectively a totally rigid structure (in terms of the interface between cantilever and groove) that can still track across a record and ride any warps. It's very clever.

As to the risk of fluid spill, it's minimal unless you're a complete klutz... the only way you could really do it would be to lift the arm and outrigger clear of the trough (which if set up right can't be done with the arm lift) and swing the trough away, leaving the paddle to drip on the record. Unlikely, but someone somewhere has done it. They probably shouldn't be left unsupervised anyway...

[Minstrel SE]

Well yes it seems very clever in that they have engineered it to fit together and allow an arm to track with a paddle and trough system. Its certainly intriguing and shouts Im a serious product.

I just wonder why Ive never seen it on anything else but a Townsend and if it was that good why have I never seen it on a system that would be owned/demonstrated by the Stereophile set.

So not enough of a difference for other manufacturers to bother with it on licence? Im not saying it doesnt work. It just seems like a lot of extra engineering and fuss for the benefits involved.

[karma67]

have you actually heard one or used one?

[StuN]

I'm only speculating, but I suspect it may have been a patent/licence issue.

[farflungstar]

I'm looking for a second deck and am seriously tempted by the rock, only thing that I don't like is its belt driven. But I get the thinking and can imagine the benefits of the paddle and trough.

[iscm]

I'm looking for a second deck and am seriously tempted by the rock, only thing that I don't like is its belt driven. But I get the thinking and can imagine the benefits of the paddle and trough.

People have bought the trough and paddle separately and then used them on decks such as the 401, so I am sure that the system could be used on at least some direct drive decks.

Ian