PDA

View Full Version : New AV amp - suggestions?



Macca
09-01-2011, 12:33
I'm requiring a new multi-channel amp with HDMI inputs so I can get better sound from my Blu-Ray player than the current Dolby-pro logic I'm stuck with (toslink input).

I don't want to chuck more than £300 at it - I'm considering the Onkyo TSXR576 for £185 including shipping, a couple of mates have Onkyo's and they can't really be faulted.

I only need 5 channels and musical performance isn't that important as I have a seperate hi-fi system for that. Anyone have any other suggestions?

WAD62
09-01-2011, 12:41
I'm requiring a new multi-channel amp with HDMI inputs so I can get better sound from my Blu-Ray player than the current Dolby-pro logic I'm stuck with (toslink input).

I don't want to chuck more than £300 at it - I'm considering the Onkyo TSXR576 for £185 including shipping, a couple of mates have Onkyo's and they can't really be faulted.

I only need 5 channels and musical performance isn't that important as I have a seperate hi-fi system for that. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Is your Hi-Fi in a different room?

Macca
09-01-2011, 12:43
Is your Hi-Fi in a different room?

No, same room.

WAD62
09-01-2011, 12:47
No, same room.

I've integrated my main Hi-Fi as my front 3 channels by using a Yamaha DSP-E800, which passes the main channels on to my stereo setup, and amplifies the rear surrounds, and passes the sub out too. :)

It's not full HD DTS however, just standard DTS 5.1 ;)

I'm sure other AV amps must have this facility, it's a shame not to be able to use ones expensive high quality stereo setup as part of your AV soundsytem...

Macca
09-01-2011, 12:54
I've integrated my main Hi-Fi as my front 3 channels by using a Yamaha DSP-E800, which passes the main channels on to my stereo setup, and amplifies the rear surrounds, and passes the sub out too. :)

It's not full HD DTS however, just standard DTS 5.1 ;)

Will, I've thought long and hard about this option before. The problem is it means moving the TV in between (or just behind) the hi-fi speakers which will result in my sitting 25' from the screen (the speakers are just too big to position them firing across the width of the room and they wouldn't sound right there anyway, as they need space behind 'em. So I'm sticking with 2 independant systems.

Edit: added photo from hi-fi listening position to illustrate what I mean:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/DSCF0005.jpg

WAD62
09-01-2011, 12:57
Will, I've thought long and hard about this option before. The problem is it means moving the TV in between (or just behind) the hi-fi speakers which will result in my sitting 25' from the screen (the speakers are just too big to position them firing across the width of the room and they wouldn't sound right there anyway, as they need space behind 'em. So I'm sticking with 2 independant systems.

Ah I see...:)

Reid Malenfant
09-01-2011, 13:17
I'd love to help Martin but as i have already mentioned, i do things differently :eyebrows:

If you thought the same way i did you'd look for a secondhand Panasonic DMP-BD80 blu ray player (or a cheap new one!). Having purchased that you have access to the 7.1 audio outputs on the back ;) Then you'd look for a great secondhand AV amp that didn't have an HDMI connection (as you wouldn't need one) as you can pick up beasts cheap these days.

Admittedly if you need the decoding for something else (that needed DTS-MA etc) then yes, you'd need to employ some AV amp with an HDMI input :doh:

But if whatever else you use just has Dolby Digital or standard DTS i'd give it some serious thought :)

Macca
09-01-2011, 13:30
[QUOTE=Reid Malenfant;177295]I'd love to help Martin but as i have already mentioned, i do things differently :eyebrows:

If you thought the same way i did you'd look for a secondhand Panasonic DMP-BD80 blu ray player (or a cheap new one!). Having purchased that you have access to the 7.1 audio outputs on the back ;) Then you'd look for a great secondhand AV amp that didn't have an HDMI connection (as you wouldn't need one) as you can pick up beasts cheap these days.

QUOTE]

Well the Panny is £190 new - and I wouldn't need a new amp with that option. Trouble is I only just bought my Samsung Blu Ray last week:doh:

Reid Malenfant
09-01-2011, 13:34
Well the Panny is £190 new - and I wouldn't need a new amp with that option. Trouble is I only just bought my Samsung Blu Ray last week:doh:
Panasonic DMP-BD80 multiregion (DVD only i assume) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-Blu-ray-Player-DMP-BD80-Multi-Region-DVD-/320634782221?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_DVDPla yers_Recorders&hash=item4aa752820d)

Jac Hawk
09-01-2011, 13:41
Unless you're going to go the whole hog and opt for 7.1,which in my opinion needs a serious amount of space to have it set up properly, i would look for a good second hand A/V amp that does 5.1 or 6.1, and in my opinion i wouldn't be too worried about HDMI inputs / outputs on the amp, have a look at this http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/AOS/library/Marantz%20SR5400%20Review.pdf i picked one up of eBay, it's built like a battleship and sounds great too, ohh i only paid £40 for it :)

Macca
09-01-2011, 13:42
Panasonic DMP-BD80 multiregion (DVD only i assume) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Panasonic-Blu-ray-Player-DMP-BD80-Multi-Region-DVD-/320634782221?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_DVDPla yers_Recorders&hash=item4aa752820d)

Factory refurb, though...

Reid Malenfant
09-01-2011, 13:46
Martin, here is an alternative to the Panny. Sony BDP-S550 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SONY-BDP-S550-BLU-RAY-PLAYER-FULL-HD-24p-TRUE-CINEMA-/110632599808?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_DVDPla yers_Recorders&hash=item19c2378100)

It also has 7.1 outputs on the back & decodes all the good stuff. Only thing is the Panny gives a better picture, noticeably better imo on blu ray & vastly better on upscaled DVDs :)

Reid Malenfant
09-01-2011, 13:48
Factory refurb, though...
True, so is the Sony i just linked to ;)

I think i'd rather buy something that's fully checked & functional than a secondhand unit that wasn't though...

Macca
09-01-2011, 13:59
Unless you're going to go the whole hog and opt for 7.1,which in my opinion needs a serious amount of space to have it set up properly, i would look for a good second hand A/V amp that does 5.1 or 6.1, and in my opinion i wouldn't be too worried about HDMI inputs / outputs on the amp, have a look at this http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/AOS/library/Marantz%20SR5400%20Review.pdf i picked one up of eBay, it's built like a battleship and sounds great too, ohh i only paid £40 for it :)

I do have a similar monster, a Kenwood, but it has transormer hum:(

Have to say despite the suggestions so far I am still thinking of the new amp rather than new blu ray - amps are more fun than sources:) Just to clarify, mycurrent Sony amp is Dolby digital 7.1 but my bluray will only output Dolby digital via HDMI link

Jac Hawk
09-01-2011, 14:00
I do have a similar monster, a Kenwood, but it has transormer hum:(

Have to say despite the suggestions so far I am still thinking of the new amp rather than new blu ray - amps are more fun than sources:) Just to clarify, mycurrent Sony amp is Dolby digital 7.1 but my bluray will only output Dolby digital via HDMI link

Are you wanting 7.1?

WAD62
09-01-2011, 14:10
and in my opinion i wouldn't be too worried about HDMI inputs / outputs on the amp)

Have to agree Mike, I can't see how sending a video image into the receiver via one HDMI cable, and back out again via another, can be preferable to going directly to the TV, as long as it has enough HDMI's in of course...:)

Macca
09-01-2011, 14:21
Mike - I only need/want 5.1

Will - I never run the video through the amp, don't see the point. HDMI input on the amp will be used for audio only.

WAD62
09-01-2011, 14:36
Mike - I only need/want 5.1

Will - I never run the video through the amp, don't see the point. HDMI input on the amp will be used for audio only.

I just use the optical toslink, as it's cheaper... ;)

Ali Tait
09-01-2011, 14:49
I do have a similar monster, a Kenwood, but it has transormer hum:(

Have to say despite the suggestions so far I am still thinking of the new amp rather than new blu ray - amps are more fun than sources:) Just to clarify, mycurrent Sony amp is Dolby digital 7.1 but my bluray will only output Dolby digital via HDMI link

The hum may just be the transformer fixing bolts have become loose. you could try openiing it up and see if you can tighten them.

Macca
09-01-2011, 14:51
The hum may just be the transformer fixing bolts have become loose. you could try openiing it up and see if you can tighten them.

I'll try that, Ali, thanks mate - not likely to be that simple knowing my luck though:)

Jac Hawk
09-01-2011, 14:51
I just use the optical toslink, as it's cheaper... ;)

Agreed.

Well then i would go for an older model a/v amp, and i wouldn't be too bothered about HDMI as toslink is perfectly acceptable, if you want a new amp and not secondhand, i would look for an older model, perhaps a discontinued model without HDMI, that way you'll get a top amp at a knock down price.

In my opinion keeping the video and the audio as far away from each other makes sence, as to my thinking there must be some sort of interference having everything on one cable.

Macca
09-01-2011, 15:01
I'm using Toslink at the moment but this only gives me Dolby pro-logic despite the amp being dolby digital - so I guess I am not connected up properly?

Jac Hawk
09-01-2011, 15:39
I'm using Toslink at the moment but this only gives me Dolby pro-logic despite the amp being dolby digital - so I guess I am not connected up properly?

i use toslink too, i get digital , but it depends on the source, in some cases you need to select digital 5.1 on the dvd menu, if you have the instructions for your a/v amp give um a read, it may shed light on the problem

Macca
09-01-2011, 15:45
i use toslink too, i get digital , but it depends on the source, in some cases you need to select digital 5.1 on the dvd menu, if you have the instructions for your a/v amp give um a read, it may shed light on the problem

Look at the manual? Are you serious? That's pretty drastic...- okay I'll have a proper arse about with the settings and report back:)

Jac Hawk
09-01-2011, 15:59
Look at the manual? Are you serious? That's pretty drastic...- okay I'll have a proper arse about with the settings and report back:)

HaHa!! yup i suppose it is, but a/v amps aren't straight forward and a quick flick through the dreaded manual (i bet it's still in it's plastic wrapper in the bottom draw in the kitchen) may help you make sence of it all, good luck mate.

Reid Malenfant
09-01-2011, 16:06
I think the problem here might be not so easy to solve :rolleyes: You see you need to find out what the blu ray player is streaming for audio to it's digital output. If it's like most modern blu ray discs it'll be DTS-MA or some kind of lossless Dolby Digital & this is only available (as far as i know) via either the HDMI socket or a set of audio outputs having been decoded in the blu ray player itself.

If you go into the audio setup on a blu ray disc you might find that you can switch to a lossy DD (or plain old DTS) format (if it's available on the disc) & this should then be available via any digital outputs ;)

This is again why i prefer to decode in the player & not in some amp that'll be obsolete come new HDMI upgrades :cool:

WAD62
09-01-2011, 16:57
Look at the manual? Are you serious? That's pretty drastic...- okay I'll have a proper arse about with the settings and report back:)

Steady macca...deep breathing ;)

Often the digital out is set to downmix to stereo for compatibility...should still be able to provide multi channel too :)

pwood
17-01-2011, 02:34
This forum is about sound quality being of to highest priority. Unless you have an Hdmi amp you won't get the real benefits of Dts Master audio. The best example is John Mayers blueray concert which is higher bitrate than most and really draws you into the concert. some older blue ray players have 6 channel outputs which do decent enough job but they dont have room correction ie Audessey which can help a lot with difficult room spaces.

I would love a valve amp for stereo but as I have one room for my system the av amp is the compromise I have to live with.

jon1
27-02-2011, 09:43
Paul i let the blu-ray player do the decoding through the analogues i still get all the hd formats...decoded as LPCM..the only difference is that with HDMI you will be bit-streaming to the receiver..I have no receiver in my setup or a processor but still get all the benefits of DTS-MASTER..and all the other sound formats;)



jon

pwood
03-03-2011, 12:01
jon I know a 6 channel blueray player can be used but none have the control over crossover points, room correction and distance settings that a decent av amp has. A 0.Meter here and there can really make a big difference.

Does your blue ray player support 96/25 Dts Master Audio out the 6 channel outs if so you really want to get a copy of that John Mayer disc.

Reid Malenfant
03-03-2011, 12:41
<snip> but none have the control over crossover points, room correction and distance settings that a decent av amp has. A 0.Meter here and there can really make a big difference.

Does your blue ray player support 96/25 Dts Master Audio out the 6 channel outs if so you really want to get a copy of that John Mayer disc.
I beg to differ, Panasonic DMP-BD80 has control over crossover points from 40 - 120Hz & distances converted to milliseconds with control down to 0.1mS

Agreed it doesn't have room correction but neither does my stereo :eyebrows:

Any blu ray player that has analogue outputs will decode all formats including DTS - MA as long as it was built after the format was introduced.

jon1
03-03-2011, 18:59
jonI know a 6 channel blu ray player can be used but none have the control over crossover points, room correction and distance settings that a decent av amp has. A 0.Meter here and there can really make a big difference.

Does your blue ray player support 96/25 Dts Master Audio out the 6 channel outs if so you really want to get a copy of that John Mayer disc.


Paul some blu ray players have crossovers built in mine dose..look up pioneer lx91.reference player.has all the bells and whistles:eyebrows:.as for room correction not a fan ..had it in my onkyo 805 when they first came out..not happy with the results:(..as for the player supporting the sound formats try all:eyebrows:



jon

jon1
03-03-2011, 19:00
I beg to differ, Panasonic DMP-BD80 has control over crossover points from 40 - 120Hz & distances converted to milliseconds with control down to 0.1mS

Agreed it doesn't have room correction but neither does my stereo :eyebrows:

Any blu ray player that has analogue outputs will decode all formats including DTS - MA as long as it was built after the format was introduced.





correct;)




jon

Reid Malenfant
03-03-2011, 21:00
<snip> as for room correction not a fan ..had it in my onkyo 805 when they first came out..not happy with the results
Interesting that you say this Jon, i wonder how many people will stick their hand up in the air & say they use digital room correction on the hifi/stereo :scratch: There are a few out there but even the cheapest i have seen is a couple of thousand pounds, it makes me wonder how an AV amp that deals with 5.1 channels could hope to compete quality wise for less than the same price.

Wouldn't you expect it to be more for more channels? :eyebrows: Factor in power amplifiers & you must be looking at something like the top quality Denon gear heading towards 5 figures ;)

I'd rather leave well alone than subject an audio signal to manipulation via substandard kit in all honesty :)

jon1
03-03-2011, 21:31
Interesting that you say this Jon, i wonder how many people will stick their hand up in the air & say they use digital room correction on the hi fi/stereo :scratch: There are a few out there but even the cheapest i have seen is a couple of thousand pounds, it makes me wonder how an AV amp that deals with 5.1 channels could hope to compete quality wise for less than the same price.

Wouldn't you expect it to be more for more channels? :eyebrows: Factor in power amplifiers & you must be looking at something like the top quality Denon gear heading towards 5 figures ;)

I'd rather leave well alone than subject an audio signal to manipulation via substandard kit in all honesty :)





This is my philosophy mark..keep it simple and clean..do not add to it;)as for hi fi/stereo no chance..i run two separate systems but use one amp and the same speakers and the preamp for both ..i have a dac with a ht pass through bluray player for films toshiba 900e as cd transport..simples:eyebrows:



Jon

pwood
04-03-2011, 01:47
Interesting that you say this Jon, i wonder how many people will stick their hand up in the air & say they use digital room correction on the hifi/stereo :scratch: There are a few out there but even the cheapest i have seen is a couple of thousand pounds, it makes me wonder how an AV amp that deals with 5.1 channels could hope to compete quality wise for less than the same price.

Wouldn't you expect it to be more for more channels? :eyebrows: Factor in power amplifiers & you must be looking at something like the top quality Denon gear heading towards 5 figures ;)

I'd rather leave well alone than subject an audio signal to manipulation via substandard kit in all honesty :)

Really depends on the room and speakers being used. Audessey is not easy to setup. If you go by the manual it will be pish however follow the advice from Neil on Avforums and take the time and patience and the results can be surprising with surround sound. Stereo for me is a purist thing so I use pure audio setting for that which turns everything off including crossovers.

when I was referring to control over crossover etc I was Refering to budget range players to be honest as I fail to see the point in expensive ones from my observations as via HDMI the PQ & sound is almost identical at 1080p. I use a PS3 as it is wireless ready and updates itself constantly without faf and is faster at loading than most blueray players.

Reid Malenfant
04-03-2011, 11:18
Really depends on the room and speakers being used. Audessey is not easy to setup. If you go by the manual it will be pish however follow the advice from Neil on Avforums and take the time and patience and the results can be surprising with surround sound. Stereo for me is a purist thing so I use pure audio setting for that which turns everything off including crossovers.

Ah well you see i happen to have quite a few DTS encoded surround sound music CDs & DVDs & like the stereo side of things i also like to keep things clean & simple. This is why room correction simply doesn't interest me be it stereo or surround ;)

when I was referring to control over crossover etc I was Refering to budget range players to be honest as I fail to see the point in expensive ones from my observations as via HDMI the PQ & sound is almost identical at 1080p. I use a PS3 as it is wireless ready and updates itself constantly without faf and is faster at loading than most blueray players.
It depends what you class as expensive :scratch: The Panasonic i have (well i actually have two of them :eyebrows:) set me back about £260 but these were both fitted with the ICOS region free mod for blu rays. Now i regard these as apsolutely superb machines, they both make a Sony BDP S550 (think that's right) look kind of shoddy picture wise with blu rays & via upsampled DVDs they frankly pee all over it :eyebrows:

Now i know there are some expensive BD players out there, but i wouldn't regard these as expensive, just very good indeed..

pwood
04-03-2011, 19:18
When I say DTS MA I know the 6channel machines will output that but was wondering if they also play higher resolution DTS MA discs such as the John Mayer one at full 96/24. Not that it matters as for some reason that's the only disc that seems to have that extra res on anything worth listening to. Anyway getting off topic a tad.

Op if you want a good AV AMP and are happy to use a DVD player with 6 channels outs I would suggest an Arcam AVR 200 as that is a very good sounding amp even with stereo. My relative has one fed with a Sony BD player and it's very impressive.

Reid Malenfant
04-03-2011, 19:29
When I say DTS MA I know the 6channel machines will output that but was wondering if they also play higher resolution DTS MA discs such as the John Mayer one at full 96/24. Not that it matters as for some reason that's the only disc that seems to have that extra res on anything worth listening to. Anyway getting off topic a tad.
:lolsign: That's AoS for you ;)

I'd be very surprised if either my Denon DVD2930 or Panasonic DMP-BD80 had any problems with a 24/96 disc. Definately not the Panny anyway as it has 24/192 DACs, i can't remember what the Denon has inside but i know it'll do 24/96 from disc :)

jon1
05-03-2011, 15:20
When I say DTS MA I know the 6channel machines will output that but was wondering if they also play higher resolution DTS MA discs such as the John Mayer one at full 96/24. Not that it matters as for some reason that's the only disc that seems to have that extra res on anything worth listening to. Anyway getting off topic a tad.

Op if you want a good AV AMP and are happy to use a DVD player with 6 channels outs I would suggest an Arcam AVR 200 as that is a very good sounding amp even with stereo. My relative has one fed with a Sony BD player and it's very impressive.






Thank's for the tip paul:)As for a amp i have a 6 channel gain clone custom made same with my 6 channel preamp..my interconnects are mark grants G1500hd with a few pairs of g2000hd in the mix of things so the sound is well setup;)



jon

pwood
05-03-2011, 22:48
I was wondering what you were using Jon.

My first surround setup was a Linn mAjik with a Yamaha dsp100. Replaced by Arcam av50 + 8p power amp.

jon1
06-03-2011, 07:41
I was wondering what you were using Jon.

My first surround setup was a Linn mAjik with a Yamaha dsp 100. Replaced by Arcam av50 + 8p power amp.






Where you doing a bit of head scratching paul?:eyebrows:coping without a av receiver or a processor?..the setup you have now will one of many..you will be joining the ranks of diminishing returns as we all have a lot quicker than you think ..In sort the money pit:lolsign:



jon

pwood
06-03-2011, 22:55
I now have an Onkyo 875 after a bad 2 years with a denon3802 which was useless with music. The Onkyo is rather good in stereo which was a major relief after the dull soft sounding denon.

the av50 was a pro logic amp which was fed a Sony DVD player via 6 channel input. DTS in amps was unheard of at that time.

jon1
07-03-2011, 17:58
I now have an Onkyo 875 after a bad 2 years with a denon 3802 which was useless with music. The Onkyo is rather good in stereo which was a major relief after the dull soft sounding denon.

the av50 was a pro logic amp which was fed a Sony DVD player via 6 channel input. DTS in amps was unheard of at that time.






Yes paul it but there was ac3 and still is..the first dvd player i had was a Panasonic japanese one bugger with the menu:lol:same setup as yourself ah bless the Yamaha's;)Paul i had the onkyo 805 pretty good with movies



jon