View Full Version : The Rolling Stones -- music for dullards?
magiccarpetride
06-01-2011, 00:27
I've been trying to get into the Rolling Stones, but the more I listen to their music, the more I feel like it's aimed at dullards and dimwits. You know, aimed at people with thick, heavy fog just sitting inside their brains. Could be due to too much beer or pot or any other substance abuse, or just too much inbreeding. Whatever the case may be, their music seems plodding, and, well... dullard-like.
What am I missing here (if anything)?
The Grand Wazoo
06-01-2011, 00:34
Firstly, here's one band that I think closely followed 'Andre's First Law of Music': There's very little in their output that's worth listening to, post 1973.
Alex, it's not meant to be cerebral, it's supposed to be about other parts of the body.
Which of the Stones records were you listening to Alex? Most of their output after 'Exile on Main Street' was fairly pedestrian.
Jac Hawk
06-01-2011, 01:27
I've been trying to get into the Rolling Stones, but the more I listen to their music, the more I feel like it's aimed at dullards and dimwits. You know, aimed at people with thick, heavy fog just sitting inside their brains. Could be due to too much beer or pot or any other substance abuse, or just too much inbreeding. Whatever the case may be, their music seems plodding, and, well... dullard-like.
What am I missing here (if anything)?
Sorry mate you're talking out of your arse, i understand that you may not like the stones, and you are welcome to your opinion, but basically saying that people that like them have fog between their ears or are the product of inbreeding is just wrong:steam::steam::steam::steam: are you deliberatly trying to upset folks
Songs like Gimme shelter, you can't always get what you want, wild horses etc. the list goes on and on, they're classics, granted their more recent stuff isn't as good IMHO as the stuff they did through the 60's and 70's, maybe you need to get a fresh set of ears, or go back to listening to whatever it is you like, i mean no ones forcing you to listen to them.
I've been trying to get into the Rolling Stones, but the more I listen to their music, the more I feel like it's aimed at dullards and dimwits. You know, aimed at people with thick, heavy fog just sitting inside their brains. Could be due to too much beer or pot or any other substance abuse, or just too much inbreeding. Whatever the case may be, their music seems plodding, and, well... dullard-like.
What am I missing here (if anything)?
to get the Stones now - you have to read about them too to understand why they are so important.,
in the mean time, listen to Charlie the best white drummer ever, boy can he swing.
Let it bleed
Beggars Banquet
Some Girls
Aftermath
Sticky Fingers - should be a good start, esp the new DSD CDs
personally I think Exile is massively overrated
I liked "Black & Blue" from the mid seventies and their late era Decca stuff was excellent to me, but I've not really been excited in any post 70's work at all. I think they've become a business, wheeling themselves out to mostly corporate gigs.
Tony Keidis (Red Hot Chillis) made a comment in his autobiography that his band was a support to the Stones in the early 90's (?) and they weren't allowed anywhere near the Stones' PA or the wooden floor and expensive rugs that Mick Jagger was due to dance on etc etc..
Just got this to say really Alex.
cJAEMI5kKdY
:lol::lol:
I've been trying to get into the Rolling Stones, but the more I listen to their music, the more I feel like it's aimed at dullards and dimwits. You know, aimed at people with thick, heavy fog just sitting inside their brains. Could be due to too much beer or pot or any other substance abuse, or just too much inbreeding. Whatever the case may be, their music seems plodding, and, well... dullard-like.
What am I missing here (if anything)?
Q: What am I missing here A: common decency and respect for others tastes and experiences? If people were to post insulting your tastes and beliefs you would be mighty pissed off, in fact you already have been.
If you don't like something just move on to something you do enjoy and leave the smart arse diggs out.
Enjoyment comes from within. Nothing anyone here or elsewhere says can alter your inner responses.
Q: What am I missing here A: common decency and respect for others tastes and experiences? If people were to post insulting your tastes and beliefs you would be mighty pissed off, in fact you already have been.
If you don't like something just move on to something you do enjoy and leave the smart arse diggs out.
Enjoyment comes from within. Nothing anyone here or elsewhere says can alter your inner responses.
Best not to get sucked in by a WUM ;)
WUM or WUMery...
WUM; A person on a forum who delights in being a 'Wind Up Merchant'
WUMery; The act of being one of the above...
Very popular on the cricket forums I subscribe to...e.g. if you want to upset Indian fans post 'Sachin Tendulkar is rubbish!!!' and stand well back...keeps some people happy I suppose :scratch:
Very odd behaviour on a Hi-Fi forum though...:scratch::scratch::scratch:
Alex
I was a Beatles fan The Stones were too "grown-up" for me. When I had grown up I'd moved on into prog, so never did The Stones until now.
The reason being was getting back into vinyl and being able to buy re-issued Stones LP's, this is the way to hear them. I started with Let it Bleed then Her Santanic Majesties and recently Baggers Banquet. You can connect better with the period with vinyl IMO.
Incidentally "A Bigger Bang" (2005) which we played at work is excellent and liked by all.
Whilst I am not the biggest fan to be honest Alex I think sometimes you just like a wind up for the sake of it and there are some tunes like Sympathy for the Devil that really hits it for me
Paint it Black - how can anyone not like that one... Reminds me of a phrase from another British dullard - The lady doth protest too much, methinks... ;)
magiccarpetride
06-01-2011, 18:56
Sorry mate you're talking out of your arse, i understand that you may not like the stones, and you are welcome to your opinion, but basically saying that people that like them have fog between their ears or are the product of inbreeding is just wrong:steam::steam::steam::steam: are you deliberatly trying to upset folks
Songs like Gimme shelter, you can't always get what you want, wild horses etc. the list goes on and on, they're classics, granted their more recent stuff isn't as good IMHO as the stuff they did through the 60's and 70's, maybe you need to get a fresh set of ears, or go back to listening to whatever it is you like, i mean no ones forcing you to listen to them.
Gee, I wasn't aware that Stones were a religion! Sorry if I offended anyone's messiah.
Anyway, no one had even attempted yet to give me some orientation as to what should I be looking for when trying to get into the Stones. And I really want to get into them (after all, they are "the greatest rock band ever", no?) But so far, their music sounds to me like something a bunch of drunks would do if allowed into the recording studio.
Just so that you understand where I'm coming from: I'm a Beatles fan, grew up with their music and all that jazz. I like smart, witty music. That's why I also adore Dylan, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Joplin, James Brown, Gabriel era Genesis, early Jethro Tull, etc.
But the Stones (and, to some extent, the Who) I really can't seem able to get into. So far, I was able to derive some pleasure from their rendition of "Love in Vain", but that's a Robert Johnson song, so duh!
So, once again, what am I missing? (and please leave your religious jihad at home)
Reid Malenfant
06-01-2011, 19:03
Gee, I wasn't aware that Stones were a religion! Sorry if I offended anyone's messiah.
Alex, i think you have that wrong ;) Nothing to do with religion imo...
I think what Mike was getting a tad irate about was suggesting that anyone that listens to the Stones has fog between their ears or is an inbred :rolleyes:
You really can't go round suggesting this without getting some kind of emotional response, well, you got one :eyebrows:
Moral is don't go demeaning anyone that listens to stuff you don't understand, just say nothing :cool:
Or perhaps a better way to start is say i been struggling to get into the Stones but would like some good suggestions of tracks to listen too
In Sympathy for the Devil the lyrics are fun also listen to the drum grove Charlie is laying down
I think you need to "feel" the muse, rather than criticise the technique. Some people seem to need to analyse the music all the time as an intellectual pasttime and completely miss the point by doing so (I'm thinking of a now ex cousin-in-law who was a highly competent musician into "prog," also an artist, yet all his compositions are basically "everything including the kitchen sink" and severely disjointed as a result - all so intellectual and impossible to listen to for long).
I think the Stones' music needs to be "felt" in the crotch, rather than critically listened to. If you don't get it, not a problem :)
Alex, i think you have that wrong ;) Nothing to do with religion imo...
I think what Mike was getting a tad irate about was suggesting that anyone that listens to the Stones has fog between their ears or is an inbred :rolleyes:
You really can't go round suggesting this without getting some kind of emotional response, well, you got one :eyebrows:
Moral is don't go demeaning anyone that listens to stuff you don't understand, just say nothing :cool:
Seconded. Ignore the smart ass until he ceases his attitude problem. (and please leave your condescending attitude/erroneous judgement at home)
Alex's posts are often provocative and can, at times, produce thoughtful debate.
I'm not going to argue over matters of musical taste - rather I've been playing The Stones for much of the day, just to see what Alan is missing.
And what a lot he is missing! Just put on 'Forty Licks', turn up the volume and mentally 'kick arse'.
In Sympathy for the Devil the lyrics are fun also listen to the drum grove Charlie is laying down
Agreed, this is a great first song to listen to if you want to hear the Stones at their best. Many years ago I heard Texas perform this song live and it was absolutely superb. Made me listen to the original with new ears.
campbell mac
07-01-2011, 20:16
It's amusing to see some t***** wind people up. As for the Stones, their early stuff was the best in my oppinion. If you are the type of person who doesn't get the Stones fair enough. Some people don't get sex or motorbikes either. Whatever floats your boat.
I think the Stones' music needs to be "felt" in the crotch, rather than critically listened to. If you don't get it, not a problem :)
Alex - this is it in a nutshell. Put on Sticky Fingers side one track one Brown Sugar and play air guitar to those riffs right back to your seat.
If you don't then, mate, it is either you or your hi-fi.;)
And to some others - and speaking as a religious Stones's fan - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the OP.
Jac Hawk
08-01-2011, 13:12
Alex - this is it in a nutshell. Put on Sticky Fingers side one track one Brown Sugar and play air guitar to those riffs right back to your seat.
If you don't then, mate, it is either you or your hi-fi.;)
And to some others - and speaking as a religious Stones's fan - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the OP.
Have you seen um live mate?
I wasn't a fan until my dad took me as a teenager back in the early 80's to a stadium gig in Rotterdam (we lived there for a year, so not an extravagant trip), Well it blew me away, i remember it was so hot they had water cannons firing at us to cool us down, women were topless, and as you can imagine a young lad, loads of hormones, i was walking round with a hard on and a smile for a week. plus the music and Mick Jagger struttin his stuff on stage, i've never been to anything to top it yet :)
Have you seen um live mate?
I wasn't a fan until my dad took me as a teenager back in the early 80's to a stadium gig in Rotterdam (we lived there for a year, so not an extravagant trip), Well it blew me away, i remember it was so hot they had water cannons firing at us to cool us down, women were topless, and as you can imagine a young lad, loads of hormones, i was walking round with a hard on and a smile for a week. plus the music and Mick Jagger struttin his stuff on stage, i've never been to anything to top it yet :)
I've thought about going a few times over the years but I don't like big stadium gigs - but if they were to do an off the cuff little performance in my local boozer that would be a different matter:)
Jac Hawk
08-01-2011, 14:00
I've thought about going a few times over the years but I don't like big stadium gigs - but if they were to do an off the cuff little performance in my local boozer that would be a different matter:)
Problem is i don't think Mick and Kieth can stand being that close to each other anymore:(
Problem is i don't think Mick and Kieth can stand being that close to each other anymore:(
Only since they ran that corner shop together in Stella Street:lol:
Rich Conroy
04-08-2011, 22:34
I first heard "Sympathy for the Devil" at a party in the early 90's and went straight out and bought "Beggars Banquet". In my opinion this is their best album, better than "Exile on Main Street".
A band that can produce an album like "Beggars Banquet" isn't for dullards. But after "Exile on Main Street" I felt they weren't firing on all cylinders.
Also just personal taste will play a role.
They are suppossed to be excellent live.
RC
Vinyleyes
05-08-2011, 04:50
Gee, I wasn't aware that Stones were a religion! Sorry if I offended anyone's messiah.
Anyway, no one had even attempted yet to give me some orientation as to what should I be looking for when trying to get into the Stones. And I really want to get into them (after all, they are "the greatest rock band ever", no?) But so far, their music sounds to me like something a bunch of drunks would do if allowed into the recording studio.
Just so that you understand where I'm coming from: I'm a Beatles fan, grew up with their music and all that jazz. I like smart, witty music. That's why I also adore Dylan, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Joplin, James Brown, Gabriel era Genesis, early Jethro Tull, etc.
But the Stones (and, to some extent, the Who) I really can't seem able to get into. So far, I was able to derive some pleasure from their rendition of "Love in Vain", but that's a Robert Johnson song, so duh!
So, once again, what am I missing? (and please leave your religious jihad at home)
Nobody can tell you what to "Look for" when talking about a band's music ... Music is all about how it makes you FEEL .... If the Stone's music doesn't make you feel anything then people could write a book about their music and it ain't gonna help you get into it at all ...
If Sticky Fingers and Let it Bleed doesn't make you feel anything .. or want to sing along .. or shake a few bones then I would just forget about the Stones because you are obviously never gonna get it .... :doh:
But why do I suspect that your'e simply a big WUM .... :lolsign:
BTW .... Gabriel era Genesis doesn't do anything for me at all but I don't go round slagging it off to all and sundry .. ...
Well I'm more than happy to be one of the 200+ million people around the globe who enjoy the Stones music and if that makes me a dullard then so be it :ner:
That TV documentary on "Exile" was interesting though. many hot and late nights supposedly recording it, yet they privately scuttled off to a studio in NY I think and probably did the main work there??????
Thing is, according to Bill Wyman in his book "Stone Alone," the band were stitched up by their late 60's management and everything pre "Exile" earns them very little money apparently.
Werner Berghofer
05-08-2011, 09:54
Dave,
interesting. I always believed “Exile on Main St.” was recorded basically with their remote recording truck located in Nellcôte, Southern France.
Werner.
That's what the film showed, lots of hot, sweaty, late night sessions, but I'm sure the film mentioned that after this, they scuttled off to "finish the album off," probably while they mixed it. I hope someone else with better short-term memory will confirm this...
Vinyleyes
05-08-2011, 10:24
They did a big interview in one of the music mags after they rereleased Exile recently .. and they talked at length about the original recording process ...
I think it was Keith and Anita who rented the place in Nellcote and they put a studio in the basement .. and parked the recording truck outside ..
There were all kinds of substances going around and they were raided .. and I think eventually hounded out by the authorities. The place had turned into a hangout for all kinds .. .. chief amongst them Gram Parsons. The other Stones rented their own places in the surrounding area.
Depending on which of the band members recollections you believe ... there was a lot of work done in France ... but also a helluva lot of partying ... so the album was probably licked into shape in the US .. but the spirit and the songs were conceived in France.
...
Who knows really ,,,, but what a party they had for 6 months ... and who can ever forget some of the songs that came out of it ... "Sweet Virginia" .. one of my all tame faves .. ...
I really do think the 70's were the best decade ... :cool: ,,, but I'm sure that could be a whole new thread ... :mental: ..
Audioman
05-08-2011, 13:46
That's what the film showed, lots of hot, sweaty, late night sessions, but I'm sure the film mentioned that after this, they scuttled off to "finish the album off," probably while they mixed it. I hope someone else with better short-term memory will confirm this...
They took the tapes to LA and did the mixing + recorded and added overdubs (extra instrumentation and backround vocals I think). So it's not a cobbled together back to basics job as commonly believed.
As far as the 'dullard' accusation is concerned - if the OP had actualy listened to any Stones how could he come to this conclusion. OK the sixties pre Satanic Majesties is largely Blues Covers (done superbly BTW) but the Jagger/Richards singles are great (groundbreaking at the time). Get a copy of Hot Rocks to Cover this period. Then get the essential albums that followed - Beggers Banquet, Let It Bleed and Sticky Fingers. Exile is harder to get into and not recommended for casual listener. Some of the 70's albums are underated IMO. Goats Head Soup, first side of It's Only Rock and Roll, Black and Blue and Some Girls are still very good. 80's is best avoided in general after Tattoo You. Thought Voodoo Lounge and Bigger Bang are a return to better form.
OK the sixties pre Satanic Majesties is largely Blues Covers
But given that the Stones were one of the UK bands are the front of the UK blues revival and were huge fans of US blues players thats not that unexpected. Not that being blues in anyway justifies it as being for dullards.
I’m still trying to work out how stupidly has any bearing on musical taste :scratch:
I don’t think there is any link between intelligence and musical taste is there?
Werner Berghofer
05-08-2011, 18:03
John,
I don’t think there is any link between intelligence and musical taste is there?
an interesting question which I have been asking myself for quite a long time. For example, nearly everthing from the Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Trash and similar genres (music, lyrics, behaviour of fans and musicians on stage) affects me as embarrassing and ridiculous. In my opinion, intelligent people never act in embarrassing and ridiculous ways, but maybe that’s just a personal prejudice.
Werner.
Reid Malenfant
05-08-2011, 18:15
I’m still trying to work out how stupidly has any bearing on musical taste :scratch:
I don’t think there is any link between intelligence and musical taste is there?
I'd have said that there certainly may well be ;) It may well be linked to age as well though as tastes change as people get older & they also get exposed to new things. Unfortunately until we get to a certain age most of us are going to be listening to standard broadcast commercial rubbish, that is unless the parents happen to listen to anything half decent :eyebrows:
Put it like this, i feel pretty sure that there will be some correlation between intelligence & what that person watches on TV, so why not for music to?
:cool:
Oh dear, I hope you’re wrong here Werner.
I’ve been told I’m a reasonably intelligent guy, at least when I’m not pissing about anyway :eyebrows:
But, not only do I often embarrass myself, but I can’t actually think of genre of music I don’t like. Sure, I have preferences, the Rolling Stones being on the list but not necessarily a huge fan of all they’ve done.
“In my opinion, intelligent people never act in embarrassing and ridiculous ways, but maybe that’s just a personal prejudice.”
I don’t think you're right here, or perhaps a lot depends on what you consider embarrassing. As an example, Rowan Atkinson is a highly intelligent man but makes a living pulling funny faces and placing himself in embarrassing and ridiculous roles.
Rumour has it Richard Feyman acted the fool quite a bit.
In fact Werner, thinking about it, I think the reluctance to embarrass oneself is more to do with upbringing and culture and of course a rigidly defined self image.
Interesting topic though.
Phew, if Mark is right, I’m a feckin genius because I don’t watch TV. I read and make stuff and play music instead :)
Oh, hang on, that might just make me antisocial :( :doh:
Reid Malenfant
05-08-2011, 18:39
Phew, if Mark is right, I’m a feckin genius because I don’t watch TV. I read and make stuff and play music instead :)
Oh, hang on, that might just make me antisocial :( :doh:
:lolsign: I guess that makes two of us then John :cool: Ok so scrub the making music bit, but the rest i definately do..
In my opinion, intelligent people never act in embarrassing and ridiculous ways, but maybe that’s just a personal prejudice.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/Einstein_tongue.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Salvador_Dali_NYWTS.jpg/220px-Salvador_Dali_NYWTS.jpg
Reid Malenfant
05-08-2011, 19:19
:lolsign: Einstein & Dali, i think you have won that one Nick ;)
Werner Berghofer
05-08-2011, 20:06
i think you have won that one Nick ;)
Is the AoS Forum a place to exchange and share opinions and experiences or to “win” discussions?
Werner.
The Grand Wazoo
05-08-2011, 20:15
Is the AoS Forum a place to exchange and share opinions and experiences or to “win” discussions?
Well generally, it's the former, except perhaps where a shared opinion is that someone be deemed to be not intelligent or worse, a dullard for having a particular taste in music. Or even apparently, liking the same sort of music as someone else who behaves in an embarrassing way.
Reid Malenfant
05-08-2011, 20:17
I'd say it was to exchange & share opinions, but Nick just showed a couple of rather intelligent people being a bit silly no?
So i guess we can all be daft at the end of the day, thankfully :eyebrows:
I'm not of the opinion that 'winning' is everything, after all just because someone called Usain Bolt happens to be the fastest person in the world over 100m doesn't make him intelligent.
Lets not be picky & try to understand where each of us are coming from ;)
I guess context is the key here :)
What I would normally do here is get in the middle and shout FIGHT!
But given how I’m noted for my terribly inappropriate sense of humour I offer this to Werner to graphically illustrate his point
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8860b46775856be7696490769982b670071763cc0576bf0460 b1c319bd7e881f2g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=cdejt56f5cdobr4&thumb=5)
(you need to click it for full effect.
And this to Mark even though I know his back isn’t too good atm.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/f4bb379d7b7478fff2a85f093cfc0b99df94365de6ce6a025b 0112fe10d10be72g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=mp7bqmic45wwwd9&thumb=5)
(I’ll catch up with you guys later)
Reid Malenfant
05-08-2011, 20:24
ROFLMAO :lol:
Werner Berghofer
05-08-2011, 20:46
Sorry guys, I think it’s better for me to check out from this thread. Like so many times before, I notice once again that I don’t fully understand your comments and jokes, probably because English is not my native language, and a lot of subtleties are lost in the translation process.
In the future I’ll restrict myself to factual themes, to simple questions and answers dealing with unambiguous, exclusive, technical facts. My English is not good enough for threads dealing with delicate questions, personal taste and cultural or philosophical matters.
No offense,
Werner.
Beechwoods
05-08-2011, 20:49
Sometimes music moves me so much that I just have to dance. Now that is an embarrassing thing to behold. And probably why I always have to go to gigs on my own!
No worries Werner. The humour wasn’t that good mate so you’re not missing much :)
It is a problem though and tbh, something I often forget. Humour, even if a person’s grasp of another language is excellent, which yours is Werner, can be completely misunderstood.
No offense was intended. Just me embarrassing myself as usual ;)
I am just glad I am a bit dumb love metal used to headbang and play air guitar in my youth and you can still see me nod my head at good gig
Stay metal
Beechwoods
05-08-2011, 21:02
:fingers:
I don't have the long hair any more, but I still love a bit of Sabbath or Hawkwind. Oh dear, I'm feeling a little dull all of a sudden.
vinylspinner
05-08-2011, 21:12
come on Martin,
No Uriah Heep :eek:
great band, love em!!
Nigel
No Uriah Heep :eek:
Oops, I forgot about them. Love them too :)
Oops, I forgot about them. Love them too :)
Chris (The Grand Wazoo) is doing his level best to try and convince me that I should like them too. What little 'YouTube' tracks I have heard have left me cold. But hey, that's just me.
Anyway back to the Stones: I'm hardly in the first flush of youth, but put on 'Sticky Fingers' and the clock get turned back forty years.
Come to think of it any Stones LP, up to and including, 'Exile on Main Street' is good. 'High Tides and Green Grass' is an excellent vinyl compilation - I just love the way the tracks segué from one to another.
But for me, the best Stones compilation has to be the re-mastered 'Forty Hot Licks'. All their singles - it has me up and 'moving' about the room: not necessarily a pretty sight! :doh:
Music for Dullards? Who cares? They were part of my upbringing: I have seen them twice, they're part of our (UK) culture and I couldn't "give a toss" if other people think little of them. :ner:
Uriah Heep's The Magician's Birthday is a wonderful album.
Try Blind Eye or Rain or just any of it.
http://open.spotify.com/album/1jRKWoLVE85G8bHFgYmLL3
I don't have the long hair any more, but I still love a bit of Sabbath or Hawkwind. Oh dear, I'm feeling a little dull all of a sudden.
You're lucky to have any hair at all.....
I've been trying to get into the Rolling Stones, but the more I listen to their music, the more I feel like it's aimed at dullards and dimwits. You know, aimed at people with thick, heavy fog just sitting inside their brains. Could be due to too much beer or pot or any other substance abuse, or just too much inbreeding. Whatever the case may be, their music seems plodding, and, well... dullard-like.
What am I missing here (if anything)?
....your about 47yrs to late mate.......i was 16 in `64 and they were my favourite group (not the Beatles)....i don`t listen to there more modern stuff as i have moved on but when i play them i only play the `60`s ones......the modern mind does not suit the older music that`s why you cannot grasp it because the era has to go with it......the youngsters then did not have a heavy fog inside there brains as they do now......mp3`s with half the frequencies missing is all they understand!....i would lay off the beer and substance abuse a bit then you might get into them a bit more:lolsign:
Vinyleyes
06-08-2011, 15:35
Sorry guys, I think it’s better for me to check out from this thread. Like so many times before, I notice once again that I don’t fully understand your comments and jokes, probably because English is not my native language, and a lot of subtleties are lost in the translation process.
In the future I’ll restrict myself to factual themes, to simple questions and answers dealing with unambiguous, exclusive, technical facts. My English is not good enough for threads dealing with delicate questions, personal taste and cultural or philosophical matters.
No offense,
Werner.
Werner .. no offence taken mate ... but it's throws up interesting questions to me anyway .... have a look at this if you like .. and consider it ... I'd be delighted to hear your thoughts .. and I think your English is excellent ..
When you say ......... "In my opinion, intelligent people never act in embarrassing and ridiculous ways, but maybe that’s just a personal prejudice"
Then it is entirely down to each individual at to what his definition of "embarrassing and ridiculous" actually is .... Each persons definition of this has to some extent been defined by many things such as .. but not limited to ... parents, schools, religion, authorities, peer pressure, advertising, ego ....
To my mind it is the job of an intelligent person to figure out which of these influences are stopping the person actually being true to himself ...
Ask yourself ,... do you feel embarrassed and ridiculous if you jump around and shake your head a bit .... Many indegenous races do it regularly as part of ritual ... myself ... once I got over my teenage hangups about expressing myself .. I actually found it to be actually quite invigorating and cleansing.
Now at the age of 56 I feel quite comfortable rocking at at the front of a festival crowd ( if I like the music) ... or joining in with local tribesmen jumpimg around in the Peruvian Amazonian rainforest ... so is that embarrassing and ridiculous behaviour .. or is it something to do with kicking your ego out of the door and simply letting go to the experience .. My 18 yr old son is certainly not embarrassed by having me around .. we rock out together ...
Over there we see many westerners having trouble letting go of their conceptions as to what is "acceptable behaviour" ....... but invariably once they do let go they report the most incredible feelings of joy and freedom ... .. and many realise how they have been emotionally shackled all their lives against expressing themselves .. simply due to the multi layered conditioning that the aforementioned factors have instilled in their pysche ..
:cool:
Some interesting thoughts Brian
I must admit I see the connection between tribal ritual and going to a concert. For me it was my first experiences of opening up into Transpersonal/altered states and was a place I started to find and express myself.
I am tempted to start a seperate tread about this but I think its more suited to a conversation with friends where you can read body langauge and gauge how far you can go
Some interesting thoughts Brian
I must admit I see the connection between tribal ritual and going to a concert. For me it was my first experiences of opening up into Transpersonal/altered states and was a place I started to find and express myself.
I am tempted to start a seperate tread about this but I think its more suited to a conversation with friends where you can read body langauge and gauge how far you can go
I'm quite sure an anthropologist would recognise the similarities between the behaviour during a tribal ritual and that during a modern rock concert.
It seems to be a natural part of the human condition to physically respond to music of whatever style, especially if it has a compulsive driving beat.
I have witnessed voodoo rituals in West Africa (Togo and Benin) where, what to me seemed a fairly pleasant toe-tapping and head-nodding beat, produce the most violent physical reaction in some of the participants.
Vinyleyes
06-08-2011, 17:46
Yes indeed John ... it is so easy to miss a person's true intention in the communication .... smiley's only go so far ,,, ;) ,,,, but most of the time I think it goes back to what I was saying about getting one's conditioning out of the way ... and looking at what is really making oneself react in an angry or affronted manner to a post ... unless of course we are being called dullards for rocking out to the Stones of course .... :lolsign: .......... Then we are entitled to go ... :chainsaw:..
As you say in your signature ... it's all about keeping one's sense of humour ............... and if we also do not take our conditioned selves too seriously ....... then it's pretty easy to chat about anything if we allow each other to express opinions without taking them personally and/or slagging off eachothers viewpoints ...... :cool: ... so start the thread mate and we'll see how long it stays clean ... :lolsign:
Some very good observations, Brian, especially about letting go of our inhibitions as we get older. I'm probably more demonstrative at gigs now than when I was younger.
John - go for it and we'll see how it goes :)
I'm probably more demonstrative at gigs now than when I was younger.
Me too, I'm a heckler now and have had exchanges with lots of folk on stage and laughs from the audience, Martha Wainwright loves me apparently :lol:
Werner Berghofer
06-08-2011, 19:33
Brian,
I'd be delighted to hear your thoughts
since your reply was very friendly and warm, I shall try once again to express my opinion, but this is a touchy subject and quite difficult to write about, even in my native language.
do you feel embarrassed and ridiculous if you jump around and shake your head a bit
No, this is something I do occasionally if I listen to suitable music and if I’m in the right mood. What I tried to express was something different:
Are you familiar with the term cock rock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_rock)? Since I’ve been 13 or 14 years old, the behaviour and the posing of hard rock or heavy metal musicians always made me grin. These guys act as if playing their quite simple riffs was something which demands a tremendous amount of physical power. The melodies, the music are very simple, the lyrics of the average rock/metal/trash (whatever) song are at least modest, unimaginative and unambitious, the view on the world is reduced to plain black and white, there are no light or dark grays, no vague areas. It is very similar to Gangsta Rap, where lads/men are just muthafuckas and girls/women are bitches.
On stage, the typical rock/metal/trash (whatever) electric guitarist strokes and waves the neck of his guitar like his cock, and his body shrugs as if the guy would undergo an elongated state of ejaculation. But that’s just fake, show, simulated intercourse for masturbators, panem et circenses for the power hungry who in real live have no power at all. Canned Heat’s Alan “Blind Owl” Wilson was an excellent musician, but a very introverted guy, playing a breathtaking blues guitar while standing still on the stage. The audience didn’t appreciate this, they seem to prefer head-banging, guitar strangling monkeys. (Of course, in show business charisma and stage presence count more than virtuosity.)
Don’t get me wrong: I like sexuality a lot, but not separated from erotic or reduced to a “Wham, bam, thank you, Mam!” series of piston movements.
I noticed that many male fans of rock/metal/trash (whatever) are rather shy, inhibited lads in their civil lives, and many of them seem to have troubles to easily get in touch with women. It’s difficult for them to start a conversation or to keep a discourse with a female alive and interesting. I think the electric guitar heroes they admire on stage are placeholders, omnipotent dream figures, substitutes for humble real lives where adventure, kick, inspiration and women are missing. They act like powerful machos, but their power is only skin deep.
Well, then, to each his own.
Maybe I’m not a very body conscious human being, or I just don’t like electric guitar when played in a specific manner – but I ilke Robert Fripp’s or Marc Ribot’s style of playing. I experience the most gratifying moments when listening to music with a certain lyric touch, often an acoustic piano is the leading instrument. From the classical genre this is music composed by Franz Schubert, Ludwig van Beethoven, Federico Mompou, Erik Satie, Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel. From the present Steve Reich, Philip Glass and Dustin O’Halloran are my favourite composers, as well as music performed by the Tord Gustavsen Trio, the Esbjörn Svensson Trio, Paul Bley, Anat Fort, Basya Schechter, Anouar Brahem or Jan Garbarek – this list of names certainly is longer, but these were the first which came to my mind.
In the best case, this music makes me feel like I have an out-of-body experience. There is a certain state of zero gravity, no awareness of personal or physical boundaries, no more awareness of my own individual person. When I was younger, I often had the idea that I might not see myself again in the mirror if I returned back to my everyday life after I listened to this music for an extended period of two or three hours.
I really like this altered state, and for me certain music is the best vehicle to reach this silent, endless beach in my mind or my soul. If this sounds ridiculous to you or other readers, then so be it.
Now please don’t think that I exclusively listen to meditative, lyric instrumental music. I love blues, rock, jazz, folk, Bob Dylan’s short stories with musical accompaniment, cantautori from Italy, bossa nova, tango, americana, chamber music, reggae, punk, chansons, medieval music, Kraftwerk, Rammstein, whatever – but I certainly can’t stand heavy metal, hard rock and opera.
I’m no head banger, unfortunately I can’t dance, probably I don’t know what I’m missing. I don’t consume alcohol, but I like to smoke strong French cigarettes; I’m not into drugs, although I had the privilege to experience a wonderful full moon night as I tried LSD for the first and last time in my life at the age of 19. Shaking and bouncing around to distorted electric guitars does not make me feel happy, but sitting in a chair, listening to a piano or a cello and forgetting everything else around me sincerely does. It’s like lying on my back in the grass, watching the clouds move in the sky and feeling the planet’s rotation.
Werner.
I would agree the music of the cock rock bands is not that sophisticated but their other styles within the genre that are totally the opposite. Music is such a personal thing I expect no one to like what I like but HM is a lot wider scene than Motley Crue etc (a lot of the bands I listen to combine elements of jazz sophiscation and write lyrics with a deeply existential slant). Yes it can send itself up and often does but at a primal level it is also connects. Getting into metal when I was young help me to express myself for the first time I felt liked I belonged.
These days I do not listen to much metal but I can still feel that energy to those riffs of Black Sabbath.
I see music as subjective no real rights and wrongs, just personal taste, this does not mean there is no crap music. I think its great that you love what you love, but I love a really good guitar solo even more so than I love the tone of a beautiful Cello.
We are at different sides of the fence, but this does not mean neither of gets a deep coneection to what we enjoy
Great post Werner. :thumbsup:
(PS - If you've not already discovered her - give Agnes Obel (http://open.spotify.com/artist/1rKrEdI6GKirxWHxIUPYms) a try. :))
Werner Berghofer
06-08-2011, 20:51
Alex,
many thanks for your recommendation – according to her WikiPedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_Obel) Agnes Obel is an artist I should definitely like. Just placed her album “Philharmonics” on my Amazon wish list.
In a radio broadcast this afternoon I heard an excellent song by Sophie Hunger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oDRGBLTpEw). It’s great that such fine, young, talented people do exist in the music scene.
Werner.
I'll give her a try too, Werner - thank you! :)
Rare Bird
06-08-2011, 21:25
Was never a RS fan..I did like the Rock & Roll Circus.. Jethro Tull here with Tommi Iommi (Black Sabbs) on gee tar
avYJHGPHEdo
Dissing the Stones is no big deal*. There's people who diss The Beatles though, which should be illegal.
*Mostly a good R&B covers group, better singles than albums, should have stopped making records about 30 years ago.
. . . should have stopped making records about 30 years ago.
I did have a reply penned to this, but stopped myself at the last minute and put a Stones album on instead :ner:
Werner Berghofer
07-08-2011, 10:47
Joe,
should have stopped making records about 30 years ago.
from a music critics point of view I share this opinion; for me everything they released after “Sticky fingers” certainly is dispensable.
But hey, these dudes obviously love what they are doing, and a lot of people around the world enjoy listening to their music. So what’s the deal? Let just anyone enjoy themselves and have a good time.
Werner.
Joe,
from a music critics point of view I share this opinion; for me everything they released after “Sticky fingers” certainly is dispensable.
But hey, these dudes obviously love what they are doing, and a lot of people around the world enjoy listening to their music. So what’s the deal? Let just anyone enjoy themselves and have a good time.
Werner.
I'd let 'Exile in Main Street' through too, personally, but yeah, if people like their later stuff, that's fine.
My daughter only ever listens to NuMetal and NuPunk, which to me sounds like a lot of shouty Americans having a good whinge, but it's clearly to her taste, and she's certainly not a 'dullard' by any stretch of the imagination.
. . . what’s the deal? Let just anyone enjoy themselves and have a good time.
Nicely put Werner :)
jimdgoulding
07-08-2011, 14:15
Can't help it. There are a half dozen or so songs of theirs that I flip for anytime I hear them. Miss You for starters.
Covenant
16-08-2011, 21:39
The 'Stones version of Little Red Rooster is a classic.
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