6 Years of Trial, Error and Pulling Hair Out! [Archive]

Primalsea

01-08-2008, 10:38

Here's some not so great pics of my rather humble system which is always (and always will be) work in progress.

I'm using Martin Logan Aeon-i's which are a bit close to the walls so I have a couple of homemade absorption panels behind them (bargin, less than £40 to make and really clean things up). This is an older pic so they're not in it.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/012.jpg

All the separates are in a hand made cabinet purchased from a local guy. Its a bit resonant but I plan to line it with 3/4" Mdf to dampen it and sturdy it up a bit soon.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00049.jpg

The Power Amp is a World Designs WD88, I bought this after hearing quite a few times over the space of a year or so and liking it every time. I put a Maple panel on it after I removed the volume and input selector. I never used these and they developed a problem with a bad earth connection so I just took them out.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00050.jpg

The Digital Source is a CD94 as transport with the DA chip and analogue circuits removed. Its a good player but overshadowed nowadays and electronically the power supply rails were noisy due to poor design in this area. Removing all but what is needed for transport duties really cleaned things up. The DAC is a Chord DAC64, not to everyones taste but I like the way it made the speakers acoustically disappear. It also sounded much more serious than the modified Sonifex DAC it replaced.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00051.jpg

On top of the unit I have my Garrard 401, again not to everyones taste but set up well there is no idler wheel rumble at all and the sound is a sturdy as a rock. The arm is a modified Rega RB250 and the cartridge is a Ortofon Rohmann which must have the greatest lack of record noise I have ever heard (not heard) from a cartridge.

The Phono Stage is a Pro-ject Tube Box which might seem a bit lowly but I find it very seductive, especially with vocals.

The Pre Amp is a World Designs Pre3. I took my then current home made pre amp to WD for a shoot out. My offering was by no means a stinkers and had seen off many other amps but it was completely shoot down without a parachute.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00052.jpg

Well thats about it.

Mike

01-08-2008, 10:51

Lovely stuff!... :)

I particularly like what you've done with the '88', I'll be doing something similar once I get hold of a Pre3, mines the integrated version ATM.

Why aren't your transformers rusty like mine? :(

Cheers...

Marco

01-08-2008, 10:58

Very, very nice indeed Paul!

I thought Mike would be along PDQ to compliment you on your '88'... :eyebrows:

You've got a nice mixture of new and old going on there, particularly with the CD94/DAC64 combo. You can't beat a 'proper' CDP/transport, can you?

How does it sound? I rate both units highly but I read somewhere that you don't get the most from the DAC64 unless you use the matching transport - something to do with a clocking link between the two, I seem to remember.

Love the plinth on the 401, too. Did you do that yourself?

Marco.

scoobs

01-08-2008, 11:03

That's the nicest looking Garrard I've seen, great work. Have you considered a sand box sub plinth, that would take care of resonance.

Primalsea

01-08-2008, 12:43

Oh gee shucks guys:o.

The piece of maple was from my local wood yard, I had to buy a meter as thats the smallest length they can machine and then cut it to size. Only cost about £8, bargain, and I have a chunk left other for other things.

As for rusty trannies, I don't know. I guess your area, our your room location at least may be damp. When they get hot this will expedite the oxidizing reaction. Have you tried a small bit of automotive rust kill?? Just a smidging and then clean it off once its cured the rust.

As for the transport issue I'm still deciding. In my mind a transport shouldn't make a difference but I'm sure I heard something different after I modded the CD94.

Theres a lot I like about how it sounds but I'm still fiddling with the CD/DAC. I think its just a headspace thing though. The DAC initially made strange whistling and hissing noises which I traced to a earth loop. I fixed that sort of but could still here some hissing. I thought this was the DAC but last night I discovered it was the speakers (they're prone to that). So the hissing was always there but now I've seemed to have tuned into it while I was sorting the DAC out and now can't stop noticing it!!

I do find that every now and again I turn the Hifi on and think what a corker, even though nothing has changed from the day before when I though it was only OK while playing the same music. For me what you hear is as much your state of mind as your hifi.

The 3 sheets of 10mm glass under the Garrard eliminated the resonances and the slight idler rumble. So the moral is use heavy, well damped basis. I guess a sand box would also do just as well, if not better, dunno though as I haven't tried it.

pssst, Don't tell everyone, but the Gararrd plinth is a chopping board from Robert Sayle, £30 and is probably the least looking like a chopping board chopping board I've seen. The bottom is some oak floorboards that I had the wood yard run up on their machine to remove the T&G.

Mike

01-08-2008, 12:48

I guess your area, our your room location at least may be damp. When they get hot this will expedite the oxidizing reaction.

Nope, no damp. They arrived like that, and being a lazy arse I've not had a go at cleaning them. :scratch:

Maybe I should! :doh:

:lolsign:

Primalsea

01-08-2008, 15:13

You should have said something to Peter or Andy, they would have sorted it for you I'm sure.

lurcher

01-08-2008, 15:28

As for the transport issue I'm still deciding. In my mind a transport shouldn't make a difference but I'm sure I heard something different after I modded the CD94.

The current bit of the DAC I am working on is the PLL jitter removing clock. Its based on a Tent Labs design, and the PLL has a output that is effectivly the error signal from the PLL processed so it can be fed to a amp and listened to. Guess what, different transports make different noises...

Mike

01-08-2008, 16:01

You should have said something to Peter or Andy, they would have sorted it for you I'm sure.

Nah, I was impatient and wanted to get on with building it. I'd had enough waiting, it arrived with a big dent in the case and a broken valve thanks to the knuckle dragging courier whom I had to go and collect it from. I spoke to Peter and replacements were sent out the same day, so no complaints about service from me.

It's only a bit of light surface oxidisation which would clean off in no time If I could be bothered.
Oh go on then, you've talked me into it! :lolsign:

Beechwoods

01-08-2008, 18:56

pssst, Don't tell everyone, but the Gararrd plinth is a chopping board from Robert Sayle, £30 and is probably the least looking like a chopping board chopping board I've seen. The bottom is some oak floorboards that I had the wood yard run up on their machine to remove the T&G.

Now you're giving me ideas for my Lenco project. I'd be rather proud if I repurposed a good looking chopper to a great sounding plinth!

Bring it on!

Primalsea

03-08-2008, 11:32

Your best sticking to chopping boards made of beechwoods as they will suit your disposition. :lol:

Beechwoods

03-08-2008, 15:04

Don't ply with me...

:doh:

I'll get my coat :lol:

Mike

26-10-2008, 15:06

Paul,

When you removed the volume pot from the WD88 did you replace it with fixed resistors, or just wire the phono sockets directly onto the I/P board?

Cheers...

Primalsea

26-10-2008, 19:21

I just wired the phono sockets (1 pair) direct to the inputs of the amp's circuit.

If you want a little less gain you could put in a fixed attenuator but I never been satified with the resultant sound. Might be a better option to increase the feedback by increase the value of the feedback shunt resistors. If you do this you might want to give the amp a through test to make sure its stable.

I find I have way too much gain and might try increasing the feedback myself.

Mike

26-10-2008, 20:44

Yeah, I kind of thought the sensitivity might be OTT if I just wire the sockets directly onto the I/P board.

Just doing a bit of chin rubbing over adding a pre and converting the '88' into a straight power amp. I've no need for two volume controls. ;)

Cheers...

Primalsea

26-10-2008, 22:48

I can recommend the Pre3 which is what I have although there are many other good preamps out there. If you plan to go for a passive unit don't bother as this is what you already have inside the WD88, (unless its a transformer based passive).

Mike

26-10-2008, 22:57

I'd like a Pre3 but the scratch build DIY bug has bitten hard. :doh:

I need an active pre though or I'll never get this 'ere Troughline up and running, thats why I'm going gog eyed through trolling t'internet for schematics n stuff. The '88' will be an organ donor with respect to it's relay board coz I like it! :) The volume pot, selector switch, and knobs will go into the pre also, hence the question earlier.

Cheers...

Gromit

27-10-2008, 12:32

Very nice Paul - I'm a huge fan of the WAD/WD stuff and may end up owning some of their wares some time in the future (I'm currently borrowing a mate's KaT34 which sounds marvellous). I did once have a hot-rodded KEL84 which, into the AN speakers I had at the time, was possibly the most musically explicit amplifier I've ever owned - a truly wonderful little thing. :)

You mention Robert Sayle's - I'm presuming you're from Cambridge (or thereabouts?). :)

Primalsea

28-10-2008, 22:56

Is it just me or do others not get email notifications about posts sometimes?? I only noticed these replies cos I happened to look at the AOS web site.

Mike, Many others will disagree with me but if you want a no gain active preamp you cant go too wrong with putting an opamp buffer either side of a volume pot. You can also go with Cathode Followers instead of opamps but have the agro of the extra complexity. However theres a fine line between ambition and stupidity with us DIY'ers (if I may say so myself) so of course the more complex option is the one to go for!!

Richard, yep I live near Cambridge but I didn't know Robert Sayle was a Cambridge company I throught they were everywhere. I also have a Kel84 which a friend is trying to see if he likes it. To be honest its a great amp and the WD88 while a super amp wasn't as big an upgrade as I thought it would be. It even drove my Martin Logans with their 1 ohm load at high freqs.

Mike

29-10-2008, 13:19

Is it just me or do others not get email notifications about posts sometimes??

I only get notifications if I 'subscribe' to the thread. But I can't remember the last time I did that so I've not noticed a problem TBH. :scratch:

Primalsea

23-11-2008, 12:58

I have now got a new Slate Plinth for my Garrard and have finally got the old laptop working as a music server with a 1TB external hard drive.

The old wooden plinth has been sold to another member and hopefully we will see some pics with his Lenco mounted in it soon. I was expecting it to be done already:eyebrows:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00235.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00236.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00237.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/DSC00238.jpg

The pics aren't great I'm afraid and the plinth needs someting underneith to hide the ugly gubbings.

John

23-11-2008, 13:01

The 401 looks great nice to see the modern mixed with the old

Primalsea

23-11-2008, 13:09

If Rob's Digital Boy & Marco's Analogue Boy, can I be Analogue Digital Boy!!

ribside

24-11-2008, 23:14

stunning

Primalsea

10-12-2008, 19:53

I have just dug out my 2 old TT's. The red one is my old Project Debut. I used to have the Rega RB250 on this. Along with the glass platter that I used to clamp the record directly to and the project speedbox. It actually sounded very good. The tonearm on it is one I made and sounds pretty good to. I'm currently making the lift mech from 2 medicine syringes and once finished I might mount it on the garrard to see what happens.

The Dual is a DD and has a Systemdeck tonearm which is actually not bad apart from the armtube whih is very lightweight. This does not gel too well with the realitively heavy headshell and gimbal assembly. However a bit of extra weight in the tube and some dampening would proabaly sort this. The bearings are very good with no play or backlash. Probably the best bearings I have seen.

These are sadly collecting dust but is someone wants to give one a home they can make me a offer:eyebrows:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/001-1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/002-1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/003-1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/004-1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/005.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/006.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/007.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/008.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/009.jpg

Beechwoods

10-12-2008, 20:17

Paul - I missed the pics of your slatedeck first time round... it looks great! Have you done anything since to hide the 'gubbins'? You could always just move the phono pre-amp somewhere else :) The rest of the gubbins would look cool imo. Functional aesthetic!

I could try and find some apt comparison to an obscure 80's pop band. "Moving in the Right Direction" as The Pasadenas might have said. Then again I might leave the 80's pop references to the experts :lol:

Primalsea

10-12-2008, 20:36

I still have some of the oak that I used to make the base of the old plinth. I was planing on using that to hide the gubbings. Unfortunately with all that polished slate and chrome they do look a little out of place

Beechwoods

10-12-2008, 20:53

You could try a few layers of matt MDF cut to fit between the two front feet. Not deep (wide, 1.5 cm thick and an inch deep, just enough to mask the front; you could do similar on the sides). You could end up with an affect at the front similar to the one in this thread (http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3605&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10) (half way down) where the chap did a simple MDF plinth that had quite a slate look. Black matt car spray works well in my experience to give an even slate-ish look (I've used it on my car :)) It could work for you.

Spectral Morn

10-12-2008, 23:52

I see on the bottom of your rack a Marantz cd 94 mk 1 or Mk 2 :):):):):). You are a man of great taste. Now there is a CDP. Try replacing the bottom plate with a thicker one, this makes a huge difference as the thin plate it came with is not up to the same spec as the heavy duty box everything is in. I changed mine 15 years ago and wow, the improvement was worth the effort. I used a 3/4 inch aluminum plate,brush finished and with all the holes nicely countersunk.

Nice TT too.

Regards D S D L ----- Neil :)

Primalsea

11-12-2008, 23:55

Spectral Morn

14-12-2008, 11:08

No retraction here. I used mine as a transport for quite awhile once I had found a DAC that was better, overall. A Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21.

The Philip's Cdm 1 mineral loaded mech is one of the best ever made (very rare now. I have a spare just in case.) So it makes sense to use it as a transport. I would not have gutted the machine myself but the changes you made are good ones. I would probably have bought a spare Cd 94 to do it to, but thats just the Marantz collector in me talking.

Nice set up.

Regards D S D L ----- Neil :)

Arlequen

31-12-2008, 13:10

If you change the TDA1541 S1 single crown with a TDA1541 S1 double crown (Holland!) to your Marantz CD 94 you 'll be flored by the magical sound it can give you.

Primalsea

31-12-2008, 14:59

A bit hard now as the CDP has no analogue electronics at all. Its all going (well some of it) to Mike.

I know what you mean though, a friend has a CD12/CDA12 combo which is a great thing to own. It does have some flaws though which became apparent in a side by side comparison. However for dynamics its hard to beat.

Primalsea

03-03-2009, 20:21

I had a change around and moved the speakers so I think a pic is in order
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/002-3.jpg
And here's another of the TT for good measure!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/003-3.jpg
It took a while to get the speakers to image well but all in all its much better now that theres more distance between me and the speakers.

Primalsea

08-03-2009, 10:19

I've been busy with my new toy. Its a Fujitsu Siemens Scaleo EV Media Center. Pretty good as well, It looks like a overgrown CD or DVD player but its actually a decent PC in a very nice and well built case. It can be used to record TV and play DVD's, radio etc etc but I only intend to use it for music. I really need to run it with Windows Media Center which I dont have as this allows use of th eremote contol and the screen on the front of the panel. However it runs pretty well with Windows Media Player on Vista and everything can be got at using the wireless keyboard with built tin trackball an dmouse buttons. It was a bit of an arse to set up but now its running really well and I have to admit, not being a fan of Microsoft software, that Vista's pretty good and the Media Players sleek as well.

I output through toslink (to get rid of any noises from ground currents that you get with SMPS) into the DAC64. The PC upsamples to 96Khz, 24bit. The noise floor has seemed to fallen through the floor and things seem more dynamic and cleaner than through the transport. Having a Vinyl setup and a computer setup I would contest anyone who thinks that either could be inferior to the other. They both have strengths and weaknesses and I can live with either.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/001-3.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/003-4.jpg
The monitor is on loan from a friend. I have just ordered a bare monitor that has no case. I'm going to mount it in a photoframe to make it 100% WAF approved:)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/005-2.jpg

I'm all exited now, that doesn't happen too often.:lol:

Spectral Morn

08-03-2009, 10:50

Hi Paul

Looks like a very neat, compact way of doing PC and hi-fi together. I assume from the design and layout of the unit that its more geared towards being a home entertainment unit, rather than a PC ? Or will it work as fully functional computer as well ?

Paul you have a nice way of writing, would you consider doing a fuller write up of this unit and placing it in the Strokes of Genius section. It's just I am sure that many who are members and our many guests would be interested in more info about products like this. If you would like to submit a review can you include photos of the back connections on the unit -for those who would like to hook it up to a TV etc, you could also test it in that sort of configuration as well.

If you don't feel like doing a fuller review, don't worry about it.

Regards D S D L----Neil :)

Primalsea

08-03-2009, 11:38

No ones ever said that I have a nice way of writing before:)

The unit is basically a fully functional PC of decent spec built into a high WAF case. Even Mrs Primalsea likes it to the extent that she told her friends. The highest compliment ever, almost on par with getting a knighthood:lol:

I could do a write up of how to set one up and what to buy in the first place if people are interested. Problem at the mo is that I havent had a lot of time. You may have noticed that I post a lot less recently.

But if people are genuinely interested in setting up a PC as a music centre I could do a guide.

Spectral Morn

08-03-2009, 12:05

I think you write well...

If you haven't a lot of time at the moment, thats fine. What I had in mind was what you are suggesting and also how the unit sounds. You know the sort of thing that the magazines do. If you feel up to the challenge sometime when you have the time. I think you would do a good job.

You could do it in stages if you want, with what you have suggested first, and then your thoughts on functionality and sound following that.

My invitation is not time dependent except in so much that PC industry items change quite often, and if this unit offers an excellent solution it would be a shame to miss out on the window of opportunity to get it...if it suits readers needs.

No pressure on you, if you can great, if not thats really quite okay too.

Regards D S D L---Neil :)

Ali Tait

08-03-2009, 12:32

I for one would be interested.Not heard of this product before and i'd like to know more.

Beechwoods

08-03-2009, 14:36

It looks great. Can't wait to the WAF-friendly display when you get that sorted. I definitely agree with you on the computer versus vinyl thing. Both can sound fantastic, it's just horses for courses whether you prefer the tactile nature of the LP, or the convenience and organisation of the PC. Enjoying both is the best of both worlds.

Congrats on getting your Royal Approval. It may not actually mean that much in truth, but it's nice when it happens once in a while :)

Primalsea

14-03-2009, 16:31

Here's the Very High WAF Monitor:)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/001-4.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/004-4.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/005-4.jpg

Soon all the CD's will be in storage upstairs, I'm just over halfway through loading them up the the Hard Drive. Its a labour of love to do them in one go but once finished I will just have to do the new ones I buy.

Beechwoods

14-03-2009, 21:39

Wow... that is classy. Mrs P must love you a lot! My thoughts are with you viz ripping everything onto your HD. I did it a while back and it was mind-numbing! Well worth it in the long-run though :)

Primalsea

15-03-2009, 10:37

Yeah,

Cheers Beechy, it really is dull to do but as you say worth it. It's been a complete revalation and I can't believe the quality of the sound. Its so odd, the more I listen I'm realising that its very close soundwise to my TT. Only badly produced CD's have a hint of that horrible digital sheen but the good ones sound natural and unforced.

The thing I'm most proud of though is the coffee table, I made it myself:)

Beechwoods

15-03-2009, 10:47

Mrs B gave your setup a big thumbs up too. She does wonder how you keep your living room so tidy - ours is like a riot at the Early Learning Centre! Do you have a garage workshop? I don't have a workspace where I can work with wood, yet ;) Only the patio :lol:

Marco

15-03-2009, 11:04

Here's the Very High WAF Monitor:)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/001-4.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/004-4.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/005-4.jpg

Nice one, Paul - respect :)

As a picture framer by profession, I couldn't have done any better myself!

What did you use to mitre the corners and is it a bespoke picture frame moulding or something you've adapted yourself?

Marco.

Primalsea

15-03-2009, 12:05

Beechy,

I just photo'ed the tidy bits;). I know what you mean though when the girls were younger we just gave up on tidying up all the time and just let them play with their stuff. Now they're older they just make a mess of their beroom instead. Funny you should mention the workshop, my dad has got a new car are it wont fit in his garage as the door is quite narrow. So now we are going to convert it into a workshop as I have a load of bench mounted tool that I have to current drag out of the shed to use.

Marco,
You'ed probably wished you never said that as I bought that frame from Tesco's for £6.85. It was probably made in the arse end of China. TBF it is well made and as the monitor was designed to be putin a display it had a mounting flange with holes so I could just screw it to the back of the frame and then gule the leg on the back of it. I lso put some anti slip mat on the bottom and the foot of the leg so it wont slip. Works really well. It no longer has that wonderful picture frame quality of sprawling all othe the place at the slight nudge or knock.

Just for you Marco, here's some frames that I did make
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/018-1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/019-1.jpg

Marco

15-03-2009, 12:15

LOL, Paul! I thought it looked a bit too 'neat' to be a home-made frame :eyebrows:

The corners were mitred too accurately for it to have been done with anything other than a professional MORSØ guillotine (such as I use), and they cost a lot of money. Your 'proper' picture frames are very nice, though. It's always nice to make something like that yourself :)

Marco.

Primalsea

22-03-2009, 08:06

Got a bit bored yesterday and the light was good so I mucked around with the camera for a bit. Here's the result:)
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/401Closeup.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/401Closeup1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/Pre3Closeup.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/RohmannCloseUp.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/primalsea/WD88Closeup.jpg

Next time I might even dust them off first before I take photo's:doh: