Technics 1210 internal regulation mods

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Mike,

I’m ok with a handshake on meeting but draw the line at holding someone’s hand while they quiver and quake for whatever reason. :eek:

I like to be tidy with my upgrades and removing all redundant components keeps things tidy. If anyone wants to do this a different way, that’s fine, as long as you do not leave anything on board that will cause problems.

Good advice regarding the coils.

Regards
Paul

[Paul Hynes]

I would suggest that anyone contemplating a bearing upgrade on the SL1200/1210 should do this before fitting my internal regulator upgrade. This will avoid disturbing the solid core copper or silver wire, used to connect the regulators to the motor board, when removing the motor board for bearing installation.

I upgraded a customer’s SL1210 last week and this already had a Mike New bearing fitted. I have to say that I am very impressed with this bearing. The bearing is so precise yet it runs so feely. Absolutely amazing. A first class product. I am looking forward to receiving my bearing from Mike.

Regards
Paul

[JazzBones]

I would suggest that anyone contemplating a bearing upgrade on the SL1200/1210 should do this before fitting my internal regulator upgrade. This will avoid disturbing the solid core copper or silver wire, used to connect the regulators to the motor board, when removing the motor board for bearing installation.

I upgraded a customer’s SL1210 last week and this already had a Mike New bearing fitted. I have to say that I am very impressed with this bearing. The bearing is so precise yet it runs so feely. Absolutely amazing. A first class product. I am looking forward to receiving my bearing from Mike.

Regards
Paul

Marco, if you're reading this, I hope you will appreciate WHY I did not want to install your MN base plate as you will appreciate that everything has to be taken out first and I knew there was a potential prob of possible damage to your PH PSU + regs:( My abilities are with mechanical rather than higher electronics of the nature that Paul, Martin and Anthony find commonplace and easy. Hope you understand mate.

Cheers
Ron

[MartinT]

This will still leave C3 connected across the new supply.

If you look at the photo of my mod work you should just be able to see that I have left C3 in place (top, slightly left of centre).

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/P1000507.jpg

[jostber]

I would suggest that anyone contemplating a bearing upgrade on the SL1200/1210 should do this before fitting my internal regulator upgrade. This will avoid disturbing the solid core copper or silver wire, used to connect the regulators to the motor board, when removing the motor board for bearing installation.

I upgraded a customer’s SL1210 last week and this already had a Mike New bearing fitted. I have to say that I am very impressed with this bearing. The bearing is so precise yet it runs so feely. Absolutely amazing. A first class product. I am looking forward to receiving my bearing from Mike.

Regards
Paul

:thumbsup: The bearing is a truly great upgrade.

[JazzBones]

:thumbsup: The bearing is a truly great upgrade.

And Jostein its even BETTER with Mike New's base plate, so don't forget folks to do these jobs FIRST before the PH PSU + regs!!!! :)

One question: Whats your Furutech Monza LP stabilzer like compared to others you have possibly used and whats the weight? I've tried really heavy buggers but they squash the life out of the music.

Cheers mate
Ron :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

If you look at the photo of my mod work you should just be able to see that I have left C3 in place (top, slightly left of centre).

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/P1000507.jpg

You've left C3 and R2 and R4 (according to your picture) (:scratch: Any ideas why mate??


Do you always leave the plastic cover off the top of the motor coil as well?? Surely dust can get in there??

[MartinT]

You've left C3 and R2 and R4 (according to your picture) (:scratch: Any ideas why mate??

Do you always leave the plastic cover off the top of the motor coil as well?? Surely dust can get in there??

R2 and R4 perform no function with Q1 gone. C3 helps provide a little more regulation to the 21V line for the motor drive circuit.

Yes, I leave the plastic cover off because it sounds better. I did that ever since installing the MN bearing.

[jostber]

And Jostein its even BETTER with Mike New's base plate, so don't forget folks to do these jobs FIRST before the PH PSU + regs!!!! :)

One question: Whats your Furutech Monza LP stabilzer like compared to others you have possibly used and whats the weight? I've tried really heavy buggers but they squash the life out of the music.

Cheers mate
Ron :)

Thanks, I will check more on that base plate as well. :) I have only tried the Furutech Monza on this deck and it works great for me. The weight is 340 g. and has electrical damping through the piezo materials, as well as the mechanical damping.

[WOStantonCS100]

:popcorn:

[Mike_New]

R2 and R4 perform no function with Q1 gone. C3 helps provide a little more regulation to the 21V line for the motor drive circuit.

Yes, I leave the plastic cover off because it sounds better. I did that ever since installing the MN bearing.

Martin would have one of my earlier bearings which may permit the use of the plastic cover.
On the later batches of bearings, the three locating posts which locate into the coil assembly are longer in order to obtain improved rigidity and concentricity.
The plastic cover will not fit onto the coil assembly with these bearings fitted as the longer posts interfere with the tangs on the plastic cover.

[Marco]

Marco, if you're reading this, I hope you will appreciate WHY I did not want to install your MN base plate as you will appreciate that everything has to be taken out first and I knew there was a potential prob of possible damage to your PH PSU + regs:( My abilities are with mechanical rather than higher electronics of the nature that Paul, Martin and Anthony find commonplace and easy. Hope you understand mate.


Lol - not a problem, mate. I fully understand. When I get my own bearing base plate, I'll ask Anthony to fit it. He'll then be able to disconnect/be careful of the surrounding electronics, as is necessary.

It'll be fitted exactly the same way as yours, though, as your method is very thorough!

It'll be an interesting one when that happens, as with me doing the base plate mod last, I'll be able to very accurately ascertain what sonic benefits it brings :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

It'll be an interesting one when that happens, as with me doing the base plate mod last, I'll be able to very accurately ascertain what sonic benefits it brings :)

That'll be good to know, Marco, as my base plate mod is lost behind many other mods since.

[JazzBones]

Lol - not a problem, mate. I fully understand. When I get my own bearing base plate, I'll ask Anthony to fit it. He'll then be able to disconnect/be careful of the surrounding electronics, as is necessary.

It'll be fitted exactly the same way as yours, though, as your method is very thorough!

It'll be an interesting one when that happens, as with me doing the base plate mod last, I'll be able to very accurately ascertain what sonic benefits it brings :)

Marco.

Hi Marco, if you follow the way I fixed my base plate, with instructions from Mike N, using the additional bolts (x 3), DO NOT, REPEAT do not, Araldite the base plate as you will NEVER be able to get the MN bearing out again should this be required as with the additional three bolts the are fixed upwards from the bottom of the base plate up into the flange of the MN bearing. A little bit of accurate drilling is required with the latter. Watch and learn and sweat a little mate :lol: Have a word with Mike as my feelings are that you could Araldite the base plate using the standard method three bolt fixing from above only.... I say this as you are using a much lighter platter than before?
For the time being I've settled on 10MM thick Arcomat (two 5mm bonded together) to approach the best of both worlds... sounds good. Got me eye on a Furutech Monza LP stabilzer.. fecking expensive but works good.

Cheers and are you soaked in Wales?

Ron

[MartinT]

I bonded and bolted my base plate to the chassis, but that definitely required me to separate the 3-part chassis and get to the casting from underneath. That way, I can remove the bearing if need be.

[JazzBones]

I bonded and bolted my base plate to the chassis, but that definitely required me to separate the 3-part chassis and get to the casting from underneath. That way, I can remove the bearing if need be.

Martin, how is your MN bearing secured, the required three bolts from above as per standard fixture and only this plus MN's five chassis bolts? Inclusive of this, mine has an additional three opposing bolts from underneath the base plate itself, (counter sunk) to enable proper mating with the pan casting, thread screwed 4mm bolts into the MN bearing flange itself, a total of six holes, evenly spaced in the bearing flange instead of three. This was pre-assembled prior to the five bolt security to the Tech's ali cast pan. I used better flanged self locking nuts and car gasketing paste, in lieu of Araldite, to mate everything tightly, the chassis pan is not entirely flat, even after removing the illuminated factory boss thats why the MN BB really requires the five bolt fixing method IMO. The gasketing material can be broken to enable the whole assembly to come apart and to seperate bearing from base plate. Marco did post pictures, on my behalf, of what I had done... I'm bloody useless at getting a picture posted as well as housework and cooking but the wife still loves me I think? :eyebrows:

This 'tweaking the Tech' is more interesting than space exploration, Yes ?:rolleyes:

Ron

[MartinT]

Martin, how is your MN bearing secured, the required three bolts from above as per standard fixture and only this plus MN's five chassis bolts?

Yes. Bolts into threaded holes in the base plate, as opposed to the awful self-tappers in the original bearing. It seems tight enough for the purpose of holding everything rigid. I used Araldite for bonding, plus the 5 bolts.


This 'tweaking the Tech' is more interesting than space exploration, Yes ?:rolleyes:

It *is* fun but I'm happy listening to the results rather than constant tinkering. Short of a possible replacement arm cable, I'm not sure there's anywhere else to go with it now.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Guys,

You CAN araldite the base plate into place and still get access to the MN bearing no problems. I DONT have any nuts or bolts holding my base plate in place. The main reason behing this was to keep the structural integrity and rigidity of the plinth. I have detected no negative effects to my decks sonics so far.

Andy

[CableMaker1]

Does anyone know where C5 and C6 is on the circuit board? I cannot seem to find it.
On my circuit board - C1 is 470uF - 50V.
An additional capacitor is across D1 and the AC Pin 1. Is this cap needed? I would say no, but I wanted to get oppinions first.

My turntable is designed for USA use. 25 years old - and still kicking!!!

[Mike_New]

C5 and C6 are the two noise or transient bipass caps across the input to the rectifier,
just above CI. They are located hard up against the rectifier chip.
If you have an older model, these Caps may be attached below the PCB as they were
a later addition to the early versions of the Circuit.

[CableMaker1]

Thanks Mike. My caps were underneath the rectifier, which is what I thought but wanted to make certian that these were the caps I wanted to remove. I was not able to find it in the service manual designed for USA use. Time to get back to complete soldering the tt for sub regulator use.

[CableMaker1]

Does anyone know these questions:

1: how to wire up the turntable to make use with the power switch while using the regulators?
2: how do you adjust the ph-sr7 for the use of additional regulators? I Had it connected to the tt without the regulators installed which outputs 21 volts. This voltage output matches that of the timestep psu voltage output.
3: in picture tap311 - are there three connectors coming out of input 3 or 4, one going to the tt, and the other two going to the subregulators?

Thanks.

[CableMaker1]

And how did someone get that XLR connector fitted onto the flange where the power cord was connected to? I do not have drill that can handle that size of a bit.

[Reid Malenfant]

And how did someone get that XLR connector fitted onto the flange where the power cord was connected to? I do not have drill that can handle that size of a bit.
If you look for something like a blacksmiths drill bit on ebay you might find your prize.

They are generally equiped with a 1/2" shank to fit the drill, but the bit can be larger.


Failing that drill it out as large as you can & then use a reamer to open it up to the size you require :)

[CableMaker1]

Use a reamer to open it up to the size you require :)

That's what she said. :eyebrows: :stalks:

[Reid Malenfant]

:lol:

[CableMaker1]

I just wanted to thank mike new, Paul hynes, larry durham, sme, audio technica, isonone, and technics for providing the best turntable that one could possibly have.

:) :) :) :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

There appears to be a whole lot of love (sorry couldn't resist the led zep pun) going on here.

[Mike_New]

Does anyone know these questions:

1: how to wire up the turntable to make use with the power switch while using the regulators?
2: how do you adjust the ph-sr7 for the use of additional regulators? I Had it connected to the tt without the regulators installed which outputs 21 volts. This voltage output matches that of the timestep psu voltage output.
3: in picture tap311 - are there three connectors coming out of input 3 or 4, one going to the tt, and the other two going to the subregulators?

Thanks.

Hi Mike,
It would most certainly be possible to connect up the SL power switch to control the PS but this would entail routing the mains voltage through the SL, which is what we are trying to avoid.
On the KAB PS Kevin uses a remote switch-on, which actually provides a very low DC voltage to the power switch. He actually uses the existing mains cable, which plugs into the PS unit for this purpose.

Between the two green terminal blocks at one end of the power regulator is an adjustable potentiometer with a screwdriver slot for adjustment.
Turn this screw until you get 27V Remove the DC+ wire from the PCB before doing this!!!!
There are three wires feeding out from term-4:
a) One goes to the 21V jumper wire where you had the other wire connected
b) The other two feed 21V to the two sub regulators

[Mike_New]

And how did someone get that XLR connector fitted onto the flange where the power cord was connected to? I do not have drill that can handle that size of a bit.

You would be better off making a direct connections to the 21V module and having a connector on the PS end of the cable
Opening up a large hole with a larger drill in a power tool into relatively thin material can be fraught with danger.
I speak from experience!! The drill can grab and cause the workpiece to climb up the drill at an angle and destroy the work. If you are going to do this get someone to hold down the SL1200 firmly.

[Paul Hynes]

Hi cablemaker1,

Mike N has already answered your questions so I will just add that the connector seen on the power input flange is not an XLR connector (not enough space). It is a precision DIN connector and was installed for the convenience of changing external power supplies, to appraise their performance, without having to make connections internally every time the power supply is changed. I will be removing it in the near future when I get down to the bearing and platter upgrades.

If you decide you want to fit a similar connector follow Mike’s warning advice about machining the power inlet flange. I have a large and very heavy engineer’s vice on a bench drill press for work like this. If you try to do this without a firm anchor you risk damage to the flange and possible damage to yourself if your fingers are in the way when the flange turns into a propeller blade when it snags on the drill flutes. Please do not hold me responsible if you lose a finger or two through inadequate precautions.

Regards,
Paul

[Sonority]

As has been intimated, drilling larger holes in thin material can be, ahem, a frought affair. if the hole is much over 10mm I doubt many will get them circular, more likely a tri-lobular afffair.
There is a much better and safer thing to use than a blacksmiths drill :-)

A stepped (or smooth) cone cutter will give you a perfectly round hole with good sides.

Just drill a small pilot hole and set to work. I would personally have the material in a vice on a pillar drill, but that's mainly because I have one to use :-)

http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/493344908/Drill-Cone-Cutters-Hole-3-HSS-Steel-Step-Cut-Tool-Set-OT829.jpg

Good luck!

[MartinT]

I have cone cutters and didn't think of them at the time :steam:

[CableMaker1]

My turntable is on line with the sub regulators. At first, the tt was not getting up to speed - the platter was dragging. I was able to resolvethis issue by checking the wires and making sure that they were not in contact the platter. Working like a charm now.

The cone utter Ida good idea as I would like to have an XLR connector underneath the platter. That is a project for another time. I am buried in other personal projects at this time.

[Wakefield Turntables]

My regs are finally coming!!! :rave: I intend to perform all sorts of butchery to the 1210 over the next several weeks. :cool::cool::cool::cool:

[CableMaker1]

Make certian to take your time and not be in any rush to hurry the project. It will be worthwhile. Make certian you have very thin wires - perhaps 23 AWG - to penetrate the holes on the regulator side.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Make certian to take your time and not be in any rush to hurry the project. It will be worthwhile. Make certian you have very thin wires - perhaps 23 AWG - to penetrate the holes on the regulator side.

I have high purity teflon coated silver for the job. ;)

[CableMaker1]

I have high purity teflon coated silver for the job. ;)

Do you find that the high purity silver or copper to make an audible difference over standard copper and silver when it is used in power related areas?

CableMaker1 claims that it makes a huge difference in his audio cables. :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

Not to stray too far off topic, but, I use very high quality silver because I can afford it and yes I do think it makes a difference. I use it for both electrical and sonic reasons, mainly because of the improved conductivity. BUT! I'm putting together a system with very pure copper so I'll have the best of both worlds:D

[Reid Malenfant]

<snip> Not to stray too far off topic, but, I use very high quality silver because I can afford it and yes I do think it makes a difference. I use it for both electrical and sonic reasons, mainly because of the improved conductivity.
You'll only get increased conductivity if you happen to use the same cross sectional area of silver cable & copper.

If you increase the CSA of the copper cable over the silver by say 10% then the copper will win :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

So, conversely if you increase CSA of silver to say as big as you can afford you should increase conductivity over copper regardless :scratch: I have some nice 1.5 - 2.0mm silver sitting in a tool box :D

[Reid Malenfant]

:eyebrows: No point in going mad, but yes, if you can afford it then I guess, why not...

All I was pointing out though was that silver is only a slightly better conductor than copper, given the same purity & cross sectional area.

So for all intents & purposes it'd be vastly cheaper to use silly CSA copper cables than silver ones, even though it's in no way necessary in this application.

[Wakefield Turntables]

No worries mate. The silver has already been paid for and I get it cheap anyway, so spending more money on big CSA copper would be an additional expense ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Right, I'm well into getting the mods installed. BUT! I've cut the two tracks needed but I dont think i have cut them deep enough. Do I need to get rid of the copper between the tracks? Currently I can see a thin layer of copper still remaining and I presume we are trying to get rid of the conductivity between the tracks??

[Reid Malenfant]

Yes, make sure that there is a definate break in the track! No copper showing :)

[MartinT]

Right, I'm well into getting the mods installed. BUT! I've cut the two tracks needed but I dont think i have cut them deep enough. Do I need to get rid of the copper between the tracks?

Yes, there must be no copper left between the tracks. Once done, use your test meter to confirm that two points on either side of the cut are open circuit.

[Wakefield Turntables]

So good so far! I've removed the various components from the PCB and I'm now ready to start drilling. Guys, can you check to make sure that I have interpreted where to drill the holes correctly. I have marked the drill holes with a red circle with a horizontal line going across the top (very arty!). I just want to make sure that everything is fine. So far the installation process has been quite simple. The only reason its taking so long is because I'm waiting for some teflon!!

Thanks

Andy

[MartinT]

I didn't drill any holes, Andy, I soldered to the underside so I'll leave others to comment.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Martin,

:doh: forgot to read your posts from the previous page. Are these the area where you soldered on the underside of the PCB? I'll have a review of what you and mike said and then decide if its a solder job (which i prefer) or a drill job.

Andy

[MartinT]

Are these the area where you soldered on the underside of the PCB?

Yes, they look right from memory.

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Andy,

The drill holes shown will be correct. You can follow Martin T’s or Mike N’s instruction if you prefer. I prefer to drill the holes as shown in my instructions so the wire can then pass through the board and be soldered to the required point. Passing the wire through the board provides a firm anchor for the wire should you want to remove the board for further work in future. This should avoid damage to the solder joint or lifting of pads and tracks that could occur if you just take the wire under the board and solder to a pad.

Regards
Paul

[Wakefield Turntables]

Paul, Martin, many thanks guys, I think I'm off down the drilling route, I've cut the wires now and I have the gear in the garage so it's daft not to! I'll keep you all posted.

[Mike_New]

Andrew,
The locations are correct. As with Martin my advice would be not to drill the holes. The single reason for this: If the drill slips or you go through the PCB to quickly you are likely to damage the board. If you must drill holes then place a piece of tubing onto the drill so that only 5mm of the business end of the drill is showing when tightly gripped in the chuck. If you have a small 'Dremel' tool then hole drilling can be more controlled.
I would reccomend my approach for the simple reason that most people here are not completely experienced in handling tools and doing work of this kind in what is a very confined space for drilling.

[Paul Hynes]

Mike,

You are right about the potential for damage. This can happen just as easily with incorrect wiring. When doing modification work it would be better to have some general DIY experience. If people are not comfortable with DIY procedures on their SL1200 they should seek the help of either someone who is, or a professional who is prepared to do the work for them.

I am working on a solution for this at present and will be providing details shortly.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Drilled the holes last night as easy as you like! I've gone down the 1.5mm silver route as that's what I had spare in the garage, so the holes are actually two mm's. I have studied the wiring and it looks simple enough. I will probably star earth as well, just need to google a guide about how to do that. MArtin, fancy giving me a tutorial :D

Thanks foe the support so far guys

Andy

Ps still waiting for the bloody Teflon :steam:

[MartinT]

MArtin, fancy giving me a tutorial :D

Star earth? Simple - firstly, identify the central point of ground returns which in this case will be the lower-left PCB mounting post as that is where the ground tracks on the circuit all lead back to. Now connect the following direct to the same point by using wires with solder tags:

1) -ve from TDR-21 module
2) -ve from +12V module
3) -ve return from external PSU
4) green earth wire out as central turntable earth to preamp ground post
5) wire the arm earth separately to the preamp post if a non-metal mounting plate is used

Refer to my photo (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=323622&postcount=254) and you can trace them all.

Do not star earth the +5V module as Paul says a short path is critical. You can see that I've twisted +ve and -ve together and taken them to the two holes vacated by the now removed D301.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thats amazing, many thanks. I did a couple of hours research on star earthing, seems like many version exist but I'll stick with what you've described here ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Right very nearly finished the mods i have one problem and thats were to solder the 1 x 240mm wire for 0v on the underside of the PCB. Its pretty obvious to see where the wire should go under the PCB. This is the only real sticking point. Thanks in advance. I'll try and post a pciture to make the post a little clearer.

[MartinT]

If you're star earthing, the 0V returns should all go to an earth tag to fit under the screw on the lower-left post. The only exception is the +5V return, which goes to the hole vacated by the D301 diode.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I will be star earthing at some point but my thoughts are that I want to get the mods installed with the piece of mind that they work! ;) So i guess my original question still stands, any idea where to solder the 240mm wire on the underside of the PCB?

[MartinT]

Ok, best then to solder as close to the earth returns as possible, so find a point that you can solder to on the underside of the bottom-left corner (looking from above) of the PCB. If that makes sense :scratch:

[Wakefield Turntables]

hi can you have a look at the photo I've attached, would this be a suitable place?? The area with the red arrow ??

[MartinT]

<checks circuit> TP4 is ground, so that should be fine.

[SCUMM]

I am located in Richmond, VA and am trying to locate someone who may be able to install the regulation mods. I have been in contact with Paul who knows no contacts in the States. Apart from the forums help, his suggestion was sending the deck (sans arm and platter) to ACS. Any suggestions? Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I didn't feel my question was worth opening a new thread.

[Stratmangler]

These guys should be competent enough to perform the necessary.
http://www.vatvrepair.com/

[SCUMM]

I'm assuming you just performed an online search. I am sorry if my question seemed basic it's just that I wouldn't have known who to ask let alone what to ask them to do. I was trying to see if anyone had any leads on someone to ask that may be familiar with the mods. I will try contacting them though. thanks

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Caleb,

You posted in the right thread as it keeps all relevant info together as a reference for others. Let us know if you get a result, as there may be others in your area needing the service.

Regards
Paul

[SCUMM]

I guess I should clarify (for my own benefit mostly). Should I assume than anyone with even a slight aptitude for electronics can effectively install these modifications, or should I be more discerning in my hunt for a qualified tech? I am just a woefully inept audio newbie looking for a little guidance. Thanks

[MartinT]

No, this needs more than slight aptitude as he will need to know what he is doing. It involves cutting PCB tracks, soldering directly to pads etc. We've already had one member brick his circuit board from attempting the mods himself so get someone who is experienced in electronics to do it.

[Mike_New]

I must totally agree with Martin. If you do not have any basis knowledge of electronics
and an understanding of componentry and have had little experince if any with soldering; then do not even think about it. These mods require that you know what you are doing in regard to circuitry.
I must admit that I did have second thoughts and felt that it was a "bridge-to-far" after I first speculated that other DC supply voltages on the PCB could be upgraded.
Then Paul of course took up the challenge and did a good job in developing the volatge modules we now have available. However there was nothing he could do to make the job easy and devoid of any pre-requisite experience in circuit work.

[Wakefield Turntables]

No, this needs more than slight aptitude as he will need to know what he is doing. It involves cutting PCB tracks, soldering directly to pads etc. We've already had one member brick his circuit board from attempting the mods himself so get someone who is experienced in electronics to do it.

That member is me :eek: Dont fuck around, just send your deck to someone that knows what there doing. My mistake cost me money, so learn from my error. ;)

[Paul Hynes]

To be fair Andy, you connected everything in the right place. It was your soldering that let you down mainly because of dry joints, but the one that killed the board was a large blob of solder that was on the 9V4 regulator output lead. This was not connected to the board properly and was able to move allowing it to touch the 21v input wire. The regulator actually survived but the input to output short fed 21v to the control circuitry, which caused the damage.

For others considering a little DIY, not just with this project, you need to choose your equipment carefully. A low power soldering iron will not cut it as the tip heat can be depleted quicker than the solder can flow properly on the joint. Not only can this leave you with dry joints, it usually causes some damage to board solder pads and possibly sensitive components due to the time you need to apply the iron for to get the solder to reach melting point, particularly with lead free solder as the melting point is higher than lead solder. I use a 90W temperature controlled soldering station, made by OKI, which is very fast and gives very good joints. Also you need to choose the right iron tip and solder for the job. The solder needs good flux properties and fast melt and flow properties when it reaches the melting point.

[MartinT]

Just to add to Paul's excellent advice, use a good solder sucker if you intend removing components from a board, especially double sided through-plated boards. Desolder wick is just hopeless.

Lead-free solder is also not the best. Try and source something like Shark 5.5% silver solder from abroad if you possibly can. I have also heard that WBT 4% silver solder is good.

[Canetoad]

WBT 4% is excellent! :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

To be fair Andy, you connected everything in the right place. It was your soldering that let you down mainly because of dry joints, but the one that killed the board was a large blob of solder that was on the 9V4 regulator output lead. This was not connected to the board properly and was able to move allowing it to touch the 21v input wire. The regulator actually survived but the input to output short fed 21v to the control circuitry, which caused the damage.

For others considering a little DIY, not just with this project, you need to choose your equipment carefully. A low power soldering iron will not cut it as the tip heat can be depleted quicker than the solder can flow properly on the joint. Not only can this leave you with dry joints, it usually causes some damage to board solder pads and possibly sensitive components due to the time you need to apply the iron for to get the solder to reach melting point, particularly with lead free solder as the melting point is higher than lead solder. I use a 90W temperature controlled soldering station, made by OKI, which is very fast and gives very good joints. Also you need to choose the right iron tip and solder for the job. The solder needs good flux properties and fast melt and flow properties when it reaches the melting point.

Paul,

Your too kind. I think I may well have to buy a super duper soldering iron (wow what an interesting life :eek:). Guys, you've learned from my mistakes. Take Pauls advice, get a decent soldering iron, only do the job if your upto it, and make sure you enough money to fix it if it goes wrong :lol:

A

[SCUMM]

I am located in Richmond, VA and am trying to locate someone who may be able to install the regulation mods. I have been in contact with Paul who knows no contacts in the States. Apart from the forums help, his suggestion was sending the deck (sans arm and platter) to ACS.

After fruitlessly searching for a reliable technician in my area, I think I am going to send my table across the pond to ACS. In addition to the regulation mods, I took advantage of the recent Mike New bearing offer (which I will also have them install. While they are under the hood, what other modifications should I consider?

[Wakefield Turntables]

get rid of the queing light, the strobe light, and the pitch control. All completely useless and place a drain on the PCB. You might also want to get a Paul Hynes SR7 PSU whilst your at it. You may also want to make sure that its all star earthed as well. I think if you start with this mods you'll be up there with the best of them!

[SCUMM]

Does anyone have experience with some of the Vantage Audio mods such as:

Mechanical/Electronic Upgrades (not sure what these entail, its been nearly a month and I have yet to hear back from them)

Crystal Reference Mod (this seems to be the highest priced)

Plinth Upgrades

I was also kicking around the idea of the Bottom Base Plate to compliment my bearing acquisition. Based on my readings thus far, I am not quite sure of the benefits if one was still to use the stock platter (for the time being).

I definitely plan on a Hynes power supply but the lower SR5 (it fits the budget a little better)

Basically, I am trying to take care of all internals in one fell swoop.

And if my ignorance wasn't showing enough already :doh: what modifications need to be done when replacing the stock tonearm with, say, a Jelco? I imagine that involves some (de)soldering?

Thanks, Caleb

[nickbaba]

get rid of ... the pitch control. [All] completely useless

I respectfully disagree - it depends what kind of music he listens to.
Personally I find the Technics pitch control an incredibly useful function, which I often use, and it's one of the reasons that I have stuck with my Techy over the years.
Agreed that if he listens mostly to Jazz or live/band music its not that useful, and I'm sure audiophiles would recoil in horror at the idea of changing the pitch of such music, but if he listens to a lot of electronica/ dance music, as I do, it may not be a function he wishes to get rid of.
Just sayin...

[Wakefield Turntables]

Does anyone have experience with some of the Vantage Audio mods such as:

Mechanical/Electronic Upgrades (not sure what these entail, its been nearly a month and I have yet to hear back from them)

Crystal Reference Mod (this seems to be the highest priced)

Plinth Upgrades

I was also kicking around the idea of the Bottom Base Plate to compliment my bearing acquisition. Based on my readings thus far, I am not quite sure of the benefits if one was still to use the stock platter (for the time being).

I definitely plan on a Hynes power supply but the lower SR5 (it fits the budget a little better)

Basically, I am trying to take care of all internals in one fell swoop.

And if my ignorance wasn't showing enough already :doh: what modifications need to be done when replacing the stock tonearm with, say, a Jelco? I imagine that involves some (de)soldering?

Thanks, Caleb

What's the crystal modification I haven't heard of this one l:scratch:





I respectfully disagree - it depends what kind of music he listens to.
Personally I find the Technics pitch control an incredibly useful function, which I often use, and it's one of the reasons that I have stuck with my Techy over the years.
Agreed that if he listens mostly to Jazz or live/band music its not that useful, and I'm sure audiophiles would recoil in horror at the idea of changing the pitch of such music, but if he listens to a lot of electronica/ dance music, as I do, it may not be a function he wishes to get rid of.
Just sayin...

No worries you are entitled to your opinion ;)

[nickbaba]

No worries you are entitled to your opinion ;)

Spoken like a gentleman, sir!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Does anyone have experience with some of the Vantage Audio mods such as:

Mechanical/Electronic Upgrades (not sure what these entail, its been nearly a month and I have yet to hear back from them)

Crystal Reference Mod (this seems to be the highest priced)

Plinth Upgrades

I was also kicking around the idea of the Bottom Base Plate to compliment my bearing acquisition. Based on my readings thus far, I am not quite sure of the benefits if one was still to use the stock platter (for the time being).

I definitely plan on a Hynes power supply but the lower SR5 (it fits the budget a little better)

Basically, I am trying to take care of all internals in one fell swoop.

And if my ignorance wasn't showing enough already :doh: what modifications need to be done when replacing the stock tonearm with, say, a Jelco? I imagine that involves some (de)soldering?

Thanks, Caleb

Caleb,

You don't need to des older anything with regards removing the tone arm, although it is quite good, you need to remove the plinth and feet, and the metal inner plinth and then simply unscrew the tone arm board which mounts the tone arm. You will be left with a bit hole, you now need a new tone arm board which is designed to accept an alternate tone arm. There are many third party companies which do such an article, search the net and do a little research :cool:

[chris@panteg]

What's the crystal modification I haven't heard of this one l:scratch:






No worries you are entitled to your opinion ;)

Hi Andrew

This is something Richard talked about the last time he was at my place (January), it involves replacing the quartz crystal ,but its not just that ? Quite a lot involved but unfortunately I think Richard has been unwell for some time ? And its impossible to contact him at the moment ?

[Wakefield Turntables]

i think i remember reading about this. But I wonder why we need to do this??? The crystal locks wow and flutter levels to extremely small amounts, even very very high end decks cant match the 1210's figures. Now unless we are talking about some other crystal which does some other function I think it's probably left well alone.

[chris@panteg]

i think i remember reading about this. But I wonder why we need to do this??? The crystal locks wow and flutter levels to extremely small amounts, even very very high end decks cant match the 1210's figures. Now unless we are talking about some other crystal which does some other function I think it's probably left well alone.

:) Actually Andrew ,that's pretty much what Richard said to me , but some of his customers in Germany wanted to try it ? He feels its a step too far but if people want it and are prepared to pay ? Then well ... they can have it I guess , I won't be going for it that's for sure , possibly some mods to the board maybe .

[Wakefield Turntables]

:) Actually Andrew ,that's pretty much what Richard said to me , but some of his customers in Germany wanted to try it ? He feels its a step too far but if people want it and are prepared to pay ? Then well ... they can have it I guess , I won't be going for it that's for sure , possibly some mods to the board maybe .


I think some AOSer's looked into it and there was some feedback from a guy that does this sort of thing for a living, I think MartinT might have had similar ideas. Personally if a crystal could be produced that made wow and flutter levels of lets say >0.001% then it might be worth it, but personally I'll hang fire and see what happens!!

A

[MartinT]

It's not about wow & flutter, Andrew, more about stability and lack of jitter. After all, the various Superclocks work very well in CD players (I know, I had one fitted to my Sony SCD-1 and it wasn't a small upgrade) so why not in a turntable?

The problem is that the frequency is very unusual and crystals hard to come by except for direct replacements. So creating a Superclock of the right frequency is the issue. I had Mark of Audiocom look at the problem, but there is no solution at present.

However, Purite claim to have done it to the Technics circuit in the Monarch, so it is possible at least in theory.

[SCUMM]

After correspondence with ACS, they mentioned that they could perform the following:

Replace all electrolytic capacitors with high quality ones
Disable the speed control (pitch?)
Disable the queuing lamp
Disable the Strobe
Install the Mike New Bearing
Install the Internal Regulation Mods

I'm thinking I'm going to have all off the above done. Anything else I have forgotten? Should I have the bearing base plate thrown in?

[Mike_New]

Hi Caleb,
People say that the Bearing Base Plate does make a noticeable improvement, and this would most certainly be true if you were considering a new platter.
They are now much easier to install, as I have now designed them for fixing by Epoxy which I believe provides a more solid connection to the Alluminum chassis.

[Wakefield Turntables]

After correspondence with ACS, they mentioned that they could perform the following:

Replace all electrolytic capacitors with high quality ones
Disable the speed control (pitch?)
Disable the queuing lamp
Disable the Strobe
Install the Mike New Bearing
Install the Internal Regulation Mods

I'm thinking I'm going to have all off the above done. Anything else I have forgotten? Should I have the bearing base plate thrown in?

You can disable the que lamp by unplugging it and disable the pitch control with a simple jumper, I will take 30 seconds and cost about 10 cents.

[Wakefield Turntables]

It's not about wow & flutter, Andrew, more about stability and lack of jitter. After all, the various Superclocks work very well in CD players (I know, I had one fitted to my Sony SCD-1 and it wasn't a small upgrade) so why not in a turntable?

The problem is that the frequency is very unusual and crystals hard to come by except for direct replacements. So creating a Superclock of the right frequency is the issue. I had Mark of Audiocom look at the problem, but there is no solution at present.

However, Purite claim to have done it to the Technics circuit in the Monarch, so it is possible at least in theory.

Aaaahhhhh getting :doh: ok who's going to buy the monarch so we can see how they did it :lol:

[Marco]

Lol... I'd love to test my Techy against it! Mine did not too bad recently against these chaps:


http://imageshack.us/a/img17/72/ssystem4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/ssystem4.jpg/)


Trio L-07D (as standard) fitted with £3k Transfiguration Orpheus MC cartridge.


http://imageshack.us/a/img513/8475/ssystem3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/ssystem3.jpg/)


Systemdek 3D Precision, Da Vinci Grandezza 12" arm, Allnic Purtias cartridge (around £20k in total).


http://imageshack.us/a/img822/5769/ssystem.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/ssystem.jpg/)


Shown on Hutter rack is a Brinkmann Oasis (direct drive), Graham Phantom B44 Mk2 arm, ZYX Airy 3 cartridge (around £15k in total).


Here are some better pictures of the T/T in question, although not Dave's actual one (which is shown in the pic above, between his modded DBLs):


http://imageshack.us/a/img14/840/brinkmannoasis2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/brinkmannoasis2.jpg/)


http://imageshack.us/a/img443/8004/brinkmannoasis.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/brinkmannoasis.jpg/)


More info on the Brinkmann, here: http://www.coolgales.com/store/cart.php?target=product&product_id=1005&category_id=8 and here: http://www.audiorevelation.com/cre/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=230


...all played through one of the finest phono stages I've ever had the pleasure to listen to: an Allnic H3000V:


http://imageshack.us/a/img571/155/ssystem2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/ssystem2.jpg/)


An utterly STUNNING!! device :eek: :eek:


Full report to come of how my modded Techy performed against the above high-end behemoth T/Ts (on or before the weekend) - miss it at your peril!! ;)

Marco.

[Tarzan]

Lol... I'd love to test my Techy against it! Mine did not too bad recently against these chaps:


http://imageshack.us/a/img17/72/ssystem4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/ssystem4.jpg/)


Trio L-07D (as standard) fitted with £3k Transfiguration Orpheus MC cartridge.


http://imageshack.us/a/img513/8475/ssystem3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/ssystem3.jpg/)


Systemdek 3D Precision, Da Vinci Grandezza 12" arm, Allnic Purtias cartridge (around £20k in total).


http://imageshack.us/a/img822/5769/ssystem.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/ssystem.jpg/)


Shown on Hutter rack is a Brinkmann Oasis (direct drive), Graham Phantom B44 Mk2 arm, ZYX Airy 3 cartridge (around £15k in total).


Here are some better pictures of the T/T in question, although not Dave's actual one (which is shown in the pic above, between his modded DBLs):


http://imageshack.us/a/img14/840/brinkmannoasis2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/brinkmannoasis2.jpg/)


http://imageshack.us/a/img443/8004/brinkmannoasis.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/brinkmannoasis.jpg/)


More info on the Brinkmann, here: http://www.coolgales.com/store/cart.php?target=product&product_id=1005&category_id=8 and here: http://www.audiorevelation.com/cre/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=230


...all played through one of the finest phono stages I've ever had the pleasure to listen to: an Allnic H3000V:


http://imageshack.us/a/img571/155/ssystem2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/ssystem2.jpg/)


An utterly STUNNING!! device :eek: :eek:


Full report to come of how my modded Techy performed against the above high-end behemoth T/Ts (on or before the weekend) - miss it at your peril!! ;)

Marco.

:popcorn:


The Inspire Monarch is an amazing bit of kit, judging by what l heard at Whittlebury- incredible sound:youtheman:

[Marco]

I've not heard the Monarch, Andy (although hate how it looks), although the T/Ts above were no slouches either!! :trust:

Marco.

[Andrei]

The description of "The wire goes from C217 to the bottom leg of R104 (one of those 3 big standup green resistors in the lower left of the board." implies one wire. So far so good. But pic 2 shows two black wires connected to R104. What is the 2nd black wire for and where does it go? Any ideas?