View Full Version : Nuetron 4s for my flat
They are very good. Incredible for their size. Some prefer the N4s to the later N5s.
I have not heard the N5s.
The N4s cost me £275 on eBay from a dealer in Hull.
Peter Walker of Quad fame (as well as others, I'm sure)
used to say that the volume control should be used as a
focus control, not for loudness. At one particular volume the music
would seem to come into "focus". This happens at a lower volume with the
N4s compared to my big Quart floor-standers in the lounge in Nicosia bungalow
- just as well in a flat with neighbours to think of.
Solo piano, restrained choral music and chamber music are lovely. Even quite
energetic Baroque music including brass instruments is handled well.
Tchaikovsky Piano and Violin Concertos - well not so convincing, even
with the Sub on. I will not be using these speakers to listen to a big
romantic orchestra. Of course the N4s make a much better attempt than my
old Maxim 2s, but you cant get a quart out of a pint pot. I can see what
some say about the need (or no need) for a sub. Except when watching
movies, at the point the support of the sub is needed the little
speakers are failing anyway, and cannot be rescued. Perhaps this is a
settings and integration issue which I may or not get right.
The Quad 77 70w amp drove the Quarts well and drive the N4s nicely,
with the KEF PSW 2500 Sub connected to the Pre-Out.
The Quad 405-2 100w+ amp drives the Quarts better, particularly in the bass.
I would love to hear the N4s with the 405, but that wont happen any time soon.
As presently configured the addition of and extra pair of phono leads
allowed me to switch on the Quad 77 remote from Aux 1 to Aux 2 to
compare the analogue output of the Squeezebox with its S/PDIF output via
my Caiman DAC. The Caiman is better!
Back to the N4s. Provided they are not
pushed too hard they open up a delightful window on small scale music.
The sub allows them to be pushed a little further, but the sub comes
into it's own when watching DVDs.
In a nutshell: the N4s project a lovely but a smaller scale presentation
of the music than my big floorstanders. They hold it together
at low volumes when the big speakers would lose it; but, of course,
the music falls apart if the 'little uns' are pushed too hard.
Theadmans
16-12-2010, 16:15
I agree the Neutron IVs are excellent. I got mine a couple of years ago in mint condition from a Hi-Fi Wigwam member for £200.
My Victorian semi has a small lounge and the Neutrons are the best real world solution for me. I honestly don't think I will ever swop speakers whilst I live in this house.
What do you drive them with Threadmans. Have you tried them with the support of a Sub?
I would agree with the volume for focus point you make. I have the N5s and they come alive with the volume at 10 oclock without sounding to loud,although i would say they tend to throw voices out front.
I run them through a 60w stereo rotel and im surprised how well it drives them ( i think the Rotel has a high current output )
The amp has a pre out for a sub but although ive come close a few times i have not tried one. Most look to big for my space unfortunately.
The N4's were more like a Harbeth P3 kind of balance I think, with a tad more warmth, encouraging lower level listening I feel. The N5's I have are a touch "snappier" in their definition and although delightfully clear with no "quack" or harshness at all, would possibly work a touch better in their 2.1 application as conceived by AVI recently.
It may be hard to believe, but since the same man who designed the Neutron series also designed the ADM model(s) too and all their electronics (Martin Grindrod), the ADM's just cannot be as bad or bland as portrayed by some people. No disrespect to them, but if their vision of high quality sound is one where the tweeters nearly take one's fillings out with their "deeeetail," then I fully understand that a smoothly natural treble may not appeal.
What surprises me, Dave, is how similar the presentation of the N4s is to my big Quart floorstanders (apart from scale). The N4s have a soft dome and the Quart floorstanders a titanium tweeter and an aluminium dome mid.
I suppose (within limits) more is down to the competence of the implementation than the technology itself.
I use Quad amplification on both; what, I wonder, would I hear with very bright brittle amps? (Or do I just mean underpowered amps?)
Theadmans
16-12-2010, 18:45
What do you drive them with Threadmans. Have you tried them with the support of a Sub?
...I have a Creek 4340 integrated amp (which only has 40 watts rms but has a big current delivery). I never need to have the volume dial much above a quarter way round.
I run a Pioneer PD-S705 stable platter CD player as a transport with an old 90s vintage Cambridge Audio Dacmagic 2 Mk II. To provide a little tube warmth I have a MF x10d tube buffer (with some NOS soviet tubes out of Mig fighters).
...not a purist system I know but it floats my boat especially with old 80s (pre-loudness war) CDs and CD vinyl rips.
If I want a different sound I have a pair of Sennheiser HD650 cans and a Little Dot III tube headphone amp. I do not use a sub with the Neutrons although I do have a AE Aego 5.1 system in the same room for use with movies.
What surprises me, Dave, is how similar the presentation of the N4s is to my big Quart floorstanders (apart from scale). The N4s have a soft dome and the Quart floorstanders a titanium tweeter and an aluminium dome mid.
I suppose (within limits) more is down to the competence of the implementation than the technology itself.
I use Quad amplification on both; what, I wonder, would I hear with very bright brittle amps? (Or do I just mean underpowered amps?)
The only issue with metal dome/cone drivers is their behavious outside their comfort range - they are VERY resonant when they finally do let go. Shallow slope crossovers tend to allow the problems in metal domes/cones free reign - the early top model Monitor Audios were classic for this, the phasey harshness in the crossover-overlap region being mistaken for detail by some ignorant journalists back then.
Sometimes, the bits just gel perfectly with little effort and the N4's seem to do just that. I'll get the n5's down over the holidays and give them another good going over. The Quad II's loved them.
The only issue with metal dome/cone drivers is their behavious outside their comfort range - they are VERY resonant when they finally do let go. Shallow slope crossovers tend to allow the problems in metal domes/cones free reign - the early top model Monitor Audios were classic for this, the phasey harshness in the crossover-overlap region being mistaken for detail by some ignorant journalists back then.
Sometimes, the bits just gel perfectly with little effort and the N4's seem to do just that. I'll get the n5's down over the holidays and give them another good going over. The Quad II's loved them.
Dave, what do you prefer about the Spendors over the Neutrons?
I once had an audition of the SA 1s and thought they were great little speakers but to expensive for me at the time.
I'll get the n5's down over the holidays and give them another good going over. The Quad II's loved them.
AVI says the N5s need powerful amps and, if the power is lacking, can sound harsh. If you found they worked well with a 10w valve amp, clearly you disagree.
AVI also says the N4 is less demanding and more forgiving of an amp, what is your experience, Dave?
It's an old product but here is a review
http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/uan/117
And of the original Neutron here
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_articles/may96/av1neutron.html
The original Neutron was a very different animal and quite a unique experiment for the time. I believe the bass unit was similar to the later models, but the little Vifa tweeter was crossed over at 10KHz, the main unit, which has a very smooth response with no nasties, being run almost flat out. The only negative thing I felt about them was the lack of dispersion in the lower treble, giving a slightly dulled sound in the wrong room. however, the lack of "smear" was quite extraordinary and you could listen to compressed radio such as Classic FM for hours with no fatigue. Try this on most other miniatures of the period and the radio was switched off after around ten minutes.
Why do you think there was radical change of design after the first Neutrons, Dave, especially if the first version sounded great?
A crossover up at 10kHz makes it into a Jordan type solution using an extended bandwidth driver like the Jordan JX92S. I have a hankering after building such a pair some day. The semi-retired carpenter who custom built our kitchen in Nicosia (not a right angle in the room!) would make an excellent job, would not charge a lot, and would enjoy a rather different project. With my high frequency hearing loss I might not miss the extension up to 20kHz!
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