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Bonky
15-12-2010, 22:33
Hi all, please can you help this Mac owner (PC owners please leave).

I am new to all this digital stuff so please bear with me.

I have, as you can see, a Touch + Caiman with Gato upgrade and AEs. I have had the 1st 2 items for a week now and they have never been 'off'. I believe they should have 'burnt-in' by now.

I have a copy of the 24/96 version of Band-on-the -run as a FLAC file. I also have an AIFF copy of this done with, I think, XLD. The FLAC file played via the Touch/Caiman is inferior sonically in all ways to the AIFF played via Apple Airport Express (and not the latest version at that!). I believe that the AE natively outputs at the 16/14.1 format

The Apple Audio Midi Setup is set-up as 2ch- 24 bit, 96k, but a change to 16bit/44.1 seems to make little difference.

I have also tried this set up with a 'standard' download of Coldplay's Viva la Vida at 2822 kbps/44.1k (according to iTunes) in both FLAC and AIFF formats with the same results.

I am quite disappointed at this as given the hype on these and other forums, and the financial outlay, I was expecting a (modest) increase in sonic delivery.

I'm probably doing something wrong so would appreciate the cognoscenti giving their advice.

E.g. I've read somewhere that expecting the DAC + chip(s) in the 'Touch" to convert the FLAC format puts too much of a strain on its modest capabilities, and that is better converting the FLAC file to PCM (presumably 'low-endian' (there, I'm picking-up some of the terminology)) on the Mac first, but which software is 'best'? I started using 'MAX" but it seems to expect a 'cue sheet' (whatever that is), otherwise it won't work.

Thanks in advance,

I can't help but feel that when we've sorted all this out, a 'stickie' would be very useful.

BW

Richard

WAD62
15-12-2010, 23:58
Macs & Coldplay...time to leave...:)

Stratmangler
16-12-2010, 00:02
First things first - are you using the embedded server in the Touch, or are you using Squeezebox Server ?

Stratmangler
16-12-2010, 00:03
Macs & Coldplay...time to leave...:)

:D

HighFidelityGuy
16-12-2010, 00:12
I'm afraid I don't know much about Mac's, AE's or Squezeboxes so I probably can't help much but speaking as an IT professional and Caiman owner the first thing I'd try would be connecting your computer directly to your DAC to take the streaming gubbins out of the equation. I'm not sure if that's possible in your situation. I'm guessing the two aren't near each other if you're streaming but it might be worth the effort to rule out streaming issues. That's about all I can think of at this stage. :scratch:

Bonky
16-12-2010, 09:27
First things first - are you using the embedded server in the Touch, or are you using Squeezebox Server ?

...errr.. how do I tell?

When I go into the Squeezebox server (32bit) pane in 'system preferences' it states that the server is running...
..BUT I am playing the music (and it's not usually ColdPlay!) by using the Touch to access my music folder on my Mac in the next room.

I'm doing these comparison tests by playing this music at the same time that I'm using iTunes to play the same music from the Mac via AE. My amp has 2 identical aux inputs and I'm using the selector switch on the amp to go between the 2 sources. The music from the Touch is muffled cf that from the AE.

Thanks,

Richard

Stratmangler
16-12-2010, 09:47
I've no direct personal experience of setting up the Touch.
I have heard it, and muffled is not a word I'd use to describe the sound.

You've not managed to get a conflict between the TinySC embedded in the Touch and the Squeezebox Server on your Mac have you ?
Disable the Tiny SC in the Touch if you can.

Bonky
16-12-2010, 11:14
I've no direct personal experience of setting up the Touch.
I have heard it, and muffled is not a word I'd use to describe the sound.

You've not managed to get a conflict between the TinySC embedded in the Touch and the Squeezebox Server on your Mac have you ?
Disable the Tiny SC in the Touch if you can.

Apologies,(and I have looked at the manual and googled it) but how do I disable Tiny SC (what is that anyway?) in my Touch?

Thanks,

Richard

HighFidelityGuy
16-12-2010, 11:54
From what I've read here: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/TinySC

If you have version 2 firmware you need to go to Advanced in the embedded software menu. Under that there should an an option for Local Music Storage.....On/Off/Starting/Scanning. I think you need to set this to off.

Bonky
16-12-2010, 12:37
From what I've read here: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/TinySC

If you have version 2 firmware you need to go to Advanced in the embedded software menu. Under that there should an an option for Local Music Storage.....On/Off/Starting/Scanning. I think you need to set this to off.
Thanks very much for that info.

I've looked at the webpage you referred to -thanks, but - I'm still having problems.
I gather the settings you referred to are on the mac/pc and not on the touch. I've opened the server pages on the Mac and clicked the Advanced tab. It has most of the settings that are mentioned in Version 2 of TinySC but NOT Local Music Storage.

Perhaps it's off already as no USB or SD card have been attached?

Thanks,

BW

Richard

HighFidelityGuy
16-12-2010, 12:42
I guessed it was the web interface on the Squezebox that you needed to access, not your Mac as this setting is specifically for allowing removable storage attached to the squezebox, not your Mac, I think. :scratch:

Bonky
16-12-2010, 13:19
Hi, I've reset the touch to factory settings and re-booted. I've disconnected the Caiman and just linked the Touch to the amp, and played with different leads.. and guess what...
..no difference; the sound from the touch is muffled, bass heavy and not a patch on the AE(16/44).

It's driving me nuts - I'm spending hours on it (nothing else to do -it's snowing heavily and I'm retired), but I would like to resolve it.

I still wonder about converting the FLAC files to PCM - but can't find any reliable software (MAX keeps crashing).

Thanks,

Richard

webby
16-12-2010, 13:38
I assume you have a touch in order to play back hi res music, yes?

Bonky
16-12-2010, 13:41
I assume you have a touch in order to play back hi res music, yes?


Hi; yes.

Thanks

Richard.

trailer
16-12-2010, 13:44
Have you tried playing the file direct into the Caiman from the mac for a reference? Might be worth trying it if you physically can. Get a player like Ayrewave to output.

Bonky
16-12-2010, 14:26
Have you tried playing the file direct into the Caiman from the mac for a reference? Might be worth trying it if you physically can. Get a player like Ayrewave to output.

Hi, I'm trying to reduce the variables so I have disconnected the Caiman and wired the touch to the amp - it's still muffled and slightly distorted. I've played with volume settings on the Touch but it makes no difference.

I know what you mean about connecting the Mac to the touch but, at present, it's too much hassle - it weighs a ton (it's a 27inch iMac) and it's in the room next door, and there's no spare mains plugs...

I've tried listening to one 24/96 recording played at the same time through the touch AND AE and flipping between them. I still have the same problem with muffling and distortion.

In other words, now I don't think it is the FLAC conversion.

I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't something wrong with the touch as I believe all other variables have been omitted.

I'll try with a different RCA phono' lead and see - but I'm not hopeful...

Thanks,

Richard

HighFidelityGuy
16-12-2010, 14:33
Does your Mac have a digital coax output on it? If so I have a 4 or 5M coax cable you could borrow if that would be long enough to reach the next room? I think I also have a 3M optical cable as well and plenty of spare phono cables. I live in Sheffield so weather permitting you're more than welcome to borrow some cables to experiment over Christmas. :)

Bonky
16-12-2010, 14:35
I guessed it was the web interface on the Squezebox that you needed to access, not your Mac as this setting is specifically for allowing removable storage attached to the squezebox, not your Mac, I think. :scratch:

Hi, I've gone into settings/advanced on the touch (not the mac) and cannot see any 'web interface' setting to change.

I've also disconnected the ethernet cable and gone over to a total wireless link (100% signal - just a metre away); no difference.

Thanks,

Rich

Ali Tait
16-12-2010, 15:01
Something wrong there. The Touch is a superb sounding device imho and from what I've read should beat the AE. It may be you have a faulty unit.

Bonky
16-12-2010, 16:15
Does your Mac have a digital coax output on it? If so I have a 4 or 5M coax cable you could borrow if that would be long enough to reach the next room? I think I also have a 3M optical cable as well and plenty of spare phono cables. I live in Sheffield so weather permitting you're more than welcome to borrow some cables to experiment over Christmas. :)
Hi, that's very good of you indeed!

No, the Mac hasn't those dedicated sound outputs and I've just parcelled-up the Touch to return it to Amazon as I believe it to be faulty.

I can buy the next one at PCW and save 320!

Thanks again for that offer; much appreciated.

BW

Rich

HighFidelityGuy
16-12-2010, 16:42
No probs, I hope you have more luck with the next one. :)

magiccarpetride
20-12-2010, 18:21
E.g. I've read somewhere that expecting the DAC + chip(s) in the 'Touch" to convert the FLAC format puts too much of a strain on its modest capabilities, and that is better converting the FLAC file to PCM (presumably 'low-endian' (there, I'm picking-up some of the terminology)) on the Mac first, but which software is 'best'? I started using 'MAX" but it seems to expect a 'cue sheet' (whatever that is), otherwise it won't work.

Fogeddabout Max. Go to your Squeezebox web interface, and on the File formats page disable the native FLAC. Tell it to convert FLAC to PCM right there.

What's that going to do is force your Mac to do the heavy lifting, relieving your Touch from the grunt work. Believe it or not, when poor Touch receives FLAC, it has to convert it to PCM on the fly.

Bonky
20-12-2010, 21:07
Hi, thanks, I'll give it a go as soon as my new 'touch' arrives!..
BW

Richard