View Full Version : Which 1TB External HDD?
The lure of computer audio is becoming too hard to resist and so have decided to go down either the Touch or Sonos route. I will be also needing an external HDD to store my files on, are there any makes better than others? Looking for something quiet (no noisey fans) and the more its under £100 the better:).
Any recommendations?
Stratmangler
14-12-2010, 11:19
I've been running one of these this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-Expansions-External-Desktop-Drive/dp/B00238KZPM and it's been reliable to date.
If you're going to run it with a Touch it's better to have a drive with it's own power supply, I presume the same applies to Sonos.
As far as HD manufacturers go I'd suggest Seagate as probably the best in my experience, with Western Digital probably second, although they all make different quality models but it can come down to production batches...
At the risk of being a boring old DBA, you're going to need at least the same capacity again as a backup...I can hear the audible groans!
I use a QNAP TS-119 NAS (linux silent 1.2ghz server), which is secured with RAID synchronisation, but that's about 250 all in, and I can run Squeezeserver on it, so it's a good longterm strategy.
However back to £99...
(N.B. I have no connection with Eclipse computers, I know were both in Coventry, but they are the cheapest periferal company I've found)
The cheapest option however is to use 3.5" internal SATA hard drives, they're really cheap at the moment, and either put them in their own housing, or use a caddy/ docking station, I have one of these...
http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product.aspx?code=SKI-DOCK
And a couple of these, if you want things to be neater...
http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product.aspx?code=SKI-U35SAT2-SI
Look how cheap internal drives are compared to external ones, and the manufacturers are using exactly the same components in their external drives;
http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/subcategories.aspx?subcat=27&subcatname=S-ATA%20Interface&cat=19
2Tb for £60!!!!
Just stick to SATA, & 5.6k spin speed (7.2k is pointless when using USB2, they run hotter, and are therefore less reliable)
Sorry for the head dump, hope it makes sense...:)
I've been running one of these this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-Expansions-External-Desktop-Drive/dp/B00238KZPM and it's been reliable to date.
Can't disagree with Seagate...and perhaps an additional docking station and drive for the occasional backup.
aquapiranha
14-12-2010, 12:27
I got a 2Tb western digital from Play.com. £99 and faultless, plus silent too.
Chris \ Will, thanks very much for the info. I used to think I was reasonably computer savvy until I got involved in this malarky and now realise I'm definetly a numpty. I'm now not sure if what I need is just a USB hard drive or a NAS drive, the situation I have is as follows:-
Room 1. Cable modem & Wireless Router
Room 2. PC & Main Hifi system
Room 3. 2nd Hifi system
Initialy the Touch\Sonos will be in Room 3 to replace a broken Cd player. Would an NAS drive plug directly into the back of the Wireless Router in Room 1 to stream music to Room 3 and then also Room 2 when I can afford a second Touch\Sonos unit? If so will I be able to upload new files to the NAS drive wirelessly from my PC or would I need to unplug the drive from the router and USB connect it to my PC everytime I want to add files? Or is it that an NAS drive has to be hard wired to my PC?
Any advice on a good configuaration would be appreciated. Owing to to room layouts, hard wiring between any of the rooms would be difficult.
I got a 2Tb western digital from Play.com. £99 and faultless, plus silent too.
What if anything do you back it up to?
aquapiranha
14-12-2010, 12:57
What if anything do you back it up to?
I have a 2Tb drive in the PC too, with the same data on both.
Chris \ Will, thanks very much for the info. I used to think I was reasonably computer savvy until I got involved in this malarky and now realise I'm definetly a numpty. I'm now not sure if what I need is just a USB hard drive or a NAS drive, the situation I have is as follows:-
Room 1. Cable modem & Wireless Router
Room 2. PC & Main Hifi system
Room 3. 2nd Hifi system
Initialy the Touch\Sonos will be in Room 3 to replace a broken Cd player. Would an NAS drive plug directly into the back of the Wireless Router in Room 1 to stream music to Room 3 and then also Room 2 when I can afford a second Touch\Sonos unit? If so will I be able to upload new files to the NAS drive wirelessly from my PC or would I need to unplug the drive from the router and USB connect it to my PC everytime I want to add files? Or is it that an NAS drive has to be hard wired to my PC?
Any advice on a good configuaration would be appreciated. Owing to to room layouts, hard wiring between any of the rooms would be difficult.
And I thought I was Hi-Fi savvy until I came on here...;)
The term NAS covers a multitude of devices, at the bottom end are the cheaper 'file server' (an HD with enough processing to connect to the network and handle file transfers), and at the medium/higher end something like mine (which is a 1.2Ghz QNAP linux server wrapped round an HD enclosure).
My QNAP runs SqueezeCentre, and is plugged into my wi-fi router, my 3 squeezebox clients (receivers & a classic), all connect via wi-fi. So the server does quite a bit of the workload.
I can also connect to the same FLAC directory as a plain NAS via Winamp on any of my network enabled PCs/laptops (just a network drive). Which is great as it takes the workload away from SqueezeCentre.
You need either a Fat client (PC & Winamp or eqivalent) & a simple NAS, or a Thin client (Squeezebox etc.) and a Server (with processing power).
The Touch now complicates things (I set my system up 18 month ago and it wasn't an option), as it can be both a client and a server (but one with limited power).
Chris has hands on knowledge of the Touch, I know that if you plug an HD into the USB that will activate the embedded Server portion of the Touch, I wonder if you can also use it as a server and reference a NAS library, as that would also be available to other PC based applications. This might be wishful thinking, but it would be a nice compromise.
I know one fellow on the 'Slimdevices/Squeezebox' forums who states he is running 4 other SqueezeBox clients from his Touch, but I think there might be some performance/functionality issues here.
P.S. It's always best to have your NAS or Server hard wired into the router...
P.P.S. An old laptop might be good cheap option as a dedicated server/NAS
I have a 2Tb drive in the PC too, with the same data on both.
...you've made an old DBA very happy.
And then you could have a fireproof store in a different locat....I'll shut up! :doh:
Stratmangler
14-12-2010, 13:22
Chris \ Will, thanks very much for the info. I used to think I was reasonably computer savvy until I got involved in this malarky and now realise I'm definetly a numpty. I'm now not sure if what I need is just a USB hard drive or a NAS drive, the situation I have is as follows:-
Room 1. Cable modem & Wireless Router
Room 2. PC & Main Hifi system
Room 3. 2nd Hifi system
Initialy the Touch\Sonos will be in Room 3 to replace a broken Cd player. Would an NAS drive plug directly into the back of the Wireless Router in Room 1 to stream music to Room 3 and then also Room 2 when I can afford a second Touch\Sonos unit? If so will I be able to upload new files to the NAS drive wirelessly from my PC or would I need to unplug the drive from the router and USB connect it to my PC everytime I want to add files? Or is it that an NAS drive has to be hard wired to my PC?
Any advice on a good configuaration would be appreciated. Owing to to room layouts, hard wiring between any of the rooms would be difficult.
Well Rich, all I can do is tell you how my setup works, then expand a little.
I have a computer running XP Pro in a different room in the house.
This machine is wired to my router.
I have installed Squeezebox Server on this computer too.
My music files are on the USB2 HDD shown above.
So all of my music is local to my serving machine.
It should also be possible for me to attach an ordinary NAS on my network, and stick all of my music on that.
I would then need to sort out the address for "My Music" to be one on the network, addressing the NAS.
I've just had a quick play on my laptop, and changed the address for "My Music" to be on the upstairs machine, and it works fine - I see all of my music folders on the upstairs machine when I open "MyMusic" on the laptop.
So that is potentially another route to take.
You can run a Touch with a USB HDD connected directly - downside is you'd need to keep disconnecting the USB lead from the Touch and connecting to your computer to add or edit material.
You'd also be using the TinySC built into the Touch, which should cope with material within the spec of the Touch (up to 24/96), but will not downsample 24/192 to 24/96.
Some people complain of stuttering starts on music files when using the inbuilt TinySC too.
Then there's the low power server route, such as QNAP, where you'd have a server connected to your router and running 24/7.
A QNAP has the required processing power to properly run SBS, so the scenario is similar to my own setup, the major exception being that QNAP units run Linux.
There is a Windows interfacing tool, but it can be a faff editing tags after you've added files to the server.
The one bit of advise that Logitech suggest is that if you go the computer/server/QNAP route then make the first connection a physical one.
Hard wire the serving machine.
Wireless connection is possible, but its reliability will be poor with two wireless hops. You're far better off with just the one wireless connection, that being from the router to your player.
Stratmangler
14-12-2010, 13:29
Chris has hands on knowledge of the Touch........
I wish I had - I'm running SB3.
If I had a Touch I'd run it the same way as I run the SB3.
I wish I had - I'm running SB3.
If I had a Touch I'd run it the same way as I run the SB3.
I love the SB3 reminds me of old mainframes, and it puts a really light load on the server.
Re. The QNAP route, I'm very happy with the TS-119, 12W running, 5W sleeping, RAID1, Silent, a timer based power schedule, with 7.3.3 it runs beautifully, it ticks all the boxes for me...
HOWEVER!!!
It's not what you might call user friendly, software upgrades are a manual process, downloading Perl 'Tarballs', mounding and dismounting drives, it's very low level with a simplistic web interface. And one has to be careful about the server version...7.3.3 is the preferred one.
One upside is you'll never get a virus...
I'd definitely reiterate the need to hardwire the server to the router!!!
P.S. There is a company called Tranquil that make a Windows eqivalent (low power consumption 'blind' server), but they are around twice the price...and you're getting into serious dosh!
So in theory if I buy a budget NAS drive such as this, I can load it with both “squeezebox server” and my music files and then hard wire it to my wireless router it will act as a server that I can wirelessly access using a SB Touch?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-LinkStation-MultiMedia-Attached-BitTorrent/dp/B001FNYWFU/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1292336145&sr=1-1
Or am I being simple?
Stratmangler
14-12-2010, 14:28
So in theory if I buy a budget NAS drive such as this, I can load it with both “squeezebox server” and my music files and then hard wire it to my wireless router it will act as a server that I can wirelessly access using a SB Touch?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-LinkStation-MultiMedia-Attached-BitTorrent/dp/B001FNYWFU/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1292336145&sr=1-1
Or am I being simple?
It is fine as storage.
Unfortunately it does not have the processing capability to run Squeezebox Server.
You'd need to run SBS on another machine - a proper computer.
So in theory if I buy a budget NAS drive such as this, I can load it with both “squeezebox server” and my music files and then hard wire it to my wireless router it will act as a server that I can wirelessly access using a SB Touch?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-LinkStation-MultiMedia-Attached-BitTorrent/dp/B001FNYWFU/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1292336145&sr=1-1
Or am I being simple?
...not simple, but hopeful I would say.
That, unless it's the bargain of the century, is a NAS (a hard drive with some embedded network file transfer gubbins), with an embedded Bit-Torrent server, I can't see any processor specs or O/S info, so there'd be no way of loading or running SqueezeCenter.
As a SqueezeBox server I wouldn't recommend anything below a 1Ghz processor speed, and at a bare minimum Linux...
It is fine as storage.
Unfortunately it does not have the processing capability to run Squeezebox Server.
You'd need to run SBS on another machine - a proper computer.
Snap again!!!
I'd be interested to see if any Touch user has been able to use theirs as a Server/Client in combination with a NAS rather than a local USB drive, as you could then also access the NAS from your PC using Winamp or some such app.
But you'd want the Touch and NAS plugged into the router...
OK, thanks. I’m fast coming to the conclusion that the configuration I want to run exceeds both my knowledge and the money I have to through at it. I’ll look tonight to see how much of a pain it will be to hard wire my PC to my router, otherwise it looks like a serious re-think is in order
Stratmangler
14-12-2010, 14:52
Calling Ali Tait.
Did you get the network interface for your Drobo ? I seem to remember it coming up in conversation.
If you did then you might be able to access it across network from your Touch.
Which also means that you should be able to access your music files from your computer.
Might be worth having a play:eyebrows:
OK, thanks. I’m fast coming to the conclusion that the configuration I want to run exceeds both my knowledge and the money I have to through at it. I’ll look tonight to see how much of a pain it will be to hard wire my PC to my router, otherwise it looks like a serious re-think is in order
Or...I think I mentioned this on an earlier post
Another pragmatic alternative would be to get hold of an old low spec laptop/netbook as your dedicated server (& a NAS), not silent but liveable, and less power consumption than a PC, all depends where your router is I suppose.
Will, Room 3 where I was going to put the Touch \Sonos is the kitchen and I want to keep things simple as the wife is even less computer savvy than me (hard to believe I know), if things get too complicated such as booting up laptops\servers daily then she won’t bother and would rather I just replaced the CD player.
Stratmangler
14-12-2010, 16:11
It should be possible to get the laptop to hibernate when not working.
Switching on the Touch would send a wake-up message to the laptop which will then come back to life.
No need to boot up servers - just leave the laptop alone to do its thing.:)
It should be possible to get the laptop to hibernate when not working.
Switching on the Touch would send a wake-up message to the laptop which will then come back to life.
No need to boot up servers - just leave the laptop alone to do its thing.:)
As the man says...'wake on LAN' settings
Mind you as it's windows you'll need to reboot every now and again, dirty little OS that it is...;)
Techno Commander
14-12-2010, 21:44
Does anyone know if this (http://www.netgear.co.uk/readynasduo.php) would be a suitable NAS box for use as a server?
Specs
(http://www.netgear.com/upload/product/rnd2000/enus_ds_readynas_duo_06feb08.pdf)
Stratmangler
14-12-2010, 21:49
Hi Andy
4th paragraph in the overview gives a pretty good clue
Supports most network music, picture and video players
Advanced media streaming support allows the ReadyNAS to directly serve media, with no PC required, to devices such as the NETGEAR EVA8000, Sonos® Digital Music System, Logitech Squeezebox™, Apple iTunes® clients, Sony Playstation® 3 and Microsoft Xbox 360®.
Techno Commander
14-12-2010, 21:52
Yeah, that would be a pretty good clue.
What a muppet. :lol:
Does anyone know if this (http://www.netgear.co.uk/readynasduo.php) would be a suitable NAS box for use as a server?
Specs
(http://www.netgear.com/upload/product/rnd2000/enus_ds_readynas_duo_06feb08.pdf)
Netgear are another QNAPesque option, there's a couple more I think
I've just had a look at the spec...
256 MB PC2700 DDR-SDRAM SO-DIMM
Embedded 64 MB flash memory for OS
90 mm ball-bearing chassis cooling fan
...I can't see any mention of processor speed.
My QNAP has 500MB but it rarely gets over 20% with 7.3.3 of the server and 3 clients, so that shouldn't be an issue (check if it copes with 7.5 as I run 7.3.3 and it's more efficient). Why don't they advertise the chip performance.
I'd check forums to see if there are any 'performance' issues, and it would be worth finding the processor speed...oh and it has a fan so obviously not silent, but that might not be a problem for you.
Techno Commander
15-12-2010, 12:31
I dont think fan noise would be a major issue. I can always put it in the cupboard under the stairs. :)
Unfortunately having checked last night there is no way I can hard wire my desktop PC to my router:(. I've dug out my old busted laptop and taken it to the repairers and I'm waiting to here how much it would cost to get it working again. If it's economical then I'll use that and one of the Seagate hard drives that Chris recommended to act as a server.
Failing that then the Netgear would appear to do what I'm looking for. At £156 the price is OK considering you get 2 x 1TB drives, however I doubt I have the techie ability to get it working.
2Tb for £156!!!! Do you have a link?
Seriously do check the Netgear forums for performance issues, especially with SqueezeServer 7.5.
Check the forums, or...
There's a store/website called Ripcaster with lots of good info, they helped me out when I first got into this. They sell QNAP, Netgear, Tranquil, Squeezebox, Sonos, Linn, so hopefully are reasonably impartial.
Stratmangler
15-12-2010, 13:04
The instructions for getting things running on ReadyNAS don't look to be too difficult http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/12125
Having said that I'm going to go hide :sofa:
Will, I no nothing about this lot just found them in a net search. You have to send away to Netgear for the additional free drive and it's an additional 1TB with this model and not 2TB as listed in the ad.
http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=71404&source=froogle
This is the most detailed info I can find on that model
http://www.readynas.com/?p=177
Do you think it's a good deal and how difficult do you think it would be to set up? Though I think Chris has just answered that.
The instructions for getting things running on ReadyNAS don't look to be too difficult http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/12125
Having said that I'm going to go hide :sofa:
That's one reason I bought my QNAP from Ripcaster, it came ready built, these things are not too difficult to maintain (firmware upgrades etc.), but to build from scratch can be a bit of a learning curve.
Hence I have a RAID1 mirror image of my drive, so if the original crashes I just switch the disks, well we'll see when and if it happens!!!
Will, I no nothing about this lot just found them in a net search. You have to send away to Netgear for the additional free drive and it's an additional 1TB with this model and not 2TB as listed in the ad.
http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=71404&source=froogle
This is the most detailed info I can find on that model
http://www.readynas.com/?p=177
Do you think it's a good deal and how difficult do you think it would be to set up? Though I think Chris has just answered that.
Well at £160 with 1TB thrown in it looks like a massive bargain, the cynic in me suspects a problem, you know too good to be true and all that.
It's always worth using a good disk, I use a 'WD green enterprise class' not cheap but supposedly more reliable, fingers crossed
Now on the second link you provided there is this little sentence...
Small wireless music streamers have also become popular in the home, and the ReadyNAS can be central to serving music files to these devices. The Logitech Squeezebox™, SONOS® Digital Music System, and the Roku SoundBridge are just some of the players supported by the ReadyNAS right out of the box.
..."supported" is an interesting term, does that imply that it is pre-built with squeezeserver, or that its installation is "supported"?
Worth a few calls I'd say...seriously try Ripcaster for info, you can always buy elsewhere.
..."supported" is an interesting term, does that imply that it is pre-built with squeezeserver, or that its installation is "supported"?
Not pre-built, according to the Logitech site you still need to download "squeezebox server" but there is a variant specificaly for the ReadyNAS.
I'll bet the duo is end of line
...have a look at this forum
http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42855
That's why I stick with 7.3.3, and my QNAP has a 1.2Ghz processor with 500MB RAM!
I doubt the ReadyNas Duo has any more than 800Mhz if it's lucky, probably why they don't mention the CPU in their adverts...cynical again!
Logitech may provide a trimmed down version for Netgear, but there seems to be some performance issues on the forum!
On Chris's instructions it mentioned SqueezeCenter (last edition 7.3.3), since then Logitech have re-written/bloated it up a bit and re-branded it as SqueezeServer (7.4 onwards, and 7.4 was rather buggy).
FYI SqueezeCenter came from SlimDevices, and is more efficient, and can be downloaded from the slimdevices forums
Techno Commander
15-12-2010, 13:55
I have seen the free disc drive offer from a few retailers. I still think it might be cheaper to buy the diskless version then get 2 x 2TB disks for it. :)
Not pre-built, according to the Logitech site you still need to download "squeezebox server" but there is a variant specificaly for the ReadyNAS.
I think I know what they mean by supported 'out of the box'
On the QNAP there is an additional 'framework' platform that needs to be installed before one can install Squeezecenter, called SSOTS (slim server on turbo station).
My guess is that the ReadyNAS firmware (OS) is capable of supporting it without any additional software, which is an advantage.
There would appear to be some issues with the ReadyNAS and so I think my lack of techie knowledge means it's proably not for me at the moment. I've just heard from my PC guru and he reckons he can get my old laptop working for £40 including upping the RAM to 512MB, so I'm gonna go with that and get a Seagate drive.
There would appear to be some issues with the ReadyNAS and so I think my lack of techie knowledge means it's proably not for me at the moment. I've just heard from my PC guru and he reckons he can get my old laptop working for £40 including upping the RAM to 512MB, so I'm gonna go with that and get a Seagate drive.
I think that's the way to go chap, especially if you want to use 7.5 onwards...and at least you're reasonably familiar with the OS
Looks like the Duo clocks in at a whopping 280Mhz, Sinclair spectrum territory, no wonder they don't mention it, and no wonder they're trying to get rid of them.
The Grand Wazoo
16-12-2010, 07:52
These must be some of the cheapest:
2T - £80
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/194843
1.5T- £60
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/244629
1T- £50
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/174844
Free postage
I'd definitely recommend the Western Digital out of the 3, and Seagate would be my other recommendation.
Like any other product there are better and worse disk drives, Fujitsu and Hitachi are big no nos as far as our infrastructure guys at work are concerned, I think Hitachi are re branded IBM DeskStars.
It's all a question of luck/probability I suppose, I'm sure there are other people who've had different experiences with all brands.
But for additional backups I strongly recommend a SATA docking station, and some cheap internal 3.5 drives.
I bought the 1TB WD from PC World a few months ago and it was £59.99 - £49.99 there now too (http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/wd-elements-external-hard-drive-1tb-03661634-pdt.html) - has performed faultlessly since I installed it - recommended.
Alex thanks for the pointer, just been over my local Curry's and got one.
I bought the 1TB WD from PC World a few months ago and it was £59.99 - £49.99 there now too (http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/wd-elements-external-hard-drive-1tb-03661634-pdt.html) - has performed faultlessly since I installed it - recommended.
The WD My World Book NAS is £99 at PCWorld. Take care when choosing one as in Stirling at least there were a few different ones and if you check some have the compatible Iphone/PAD/Touch picture access which is a handy feature.
Alex thanks for the pointer, just been over my local Curry's and got one.
Happy to help - I also meant to mention as aquapiranha did about the 2TB that the 1TBs are silent too.
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