My SL-QL1 @ Vantage Audio service [Archive]

chris@panteg

11-12-2010, 21:48

Right folk's i originally bought this old 1980's Technics linear tracker purely for a bit of fun and for casual use in the family system ! purchased in June 2009 for £25 off eBay , here is a piccie of an SLQL1 though not mine ' just for reference.

http://www.nrpavs.co.nz/archive_2_09/Sold_2_09_htm/Images/Technics_SL-QL1_lf_660x412_pixels.gif

Its 7.4 kilo's and very solidly made , a joy to use.

Now in the time i have this modest and actually half decent performer ' I've grown rather fond of it , true its not going to challenge the SL1200 or many other high quality decks , but i like it and now 25 years old give or take i quite like the idea of using it for another 25 years god willing i will last that long :rolleyes:.

So to the point of this thread and in all honesty its more about Vantage Audio and their service's than my modest QL1 ! as its now in Richard's capable hands .

I will add updates as and when i can ! but so far Richard has done a thorough test and inspection and presented to me a list of options so take a look.

[B]Special center weight to improve overall dynamics and resonance control

Replacement footers to improve isolation

Special sub-frame mount to further improve mounting and isolation

Replacement main bearing thrust assembly to lower noise floor

Replacement phono lead set to improve signal noise rej

Pre-service listening checks:

Unit and supplied accessories as received: captive power cord, captive audio output leads, platter, mat, AT3482P cart installed (no protective cap)

Cosmetic condition: good, usual age related marks, etc

Initial power up: line power set to 220-240vac, all LEDS & buttons function OK, platter spins freely, quartz lock/strobe OK, speed change OK, test record plays OK, linear arm movemnt reasonable in all directions, servo motor settings require adjustment )cartridge is "leading" servo motor when record is tracking).

Initial listening impressions: installed AT cart tends to "meld" sound of instruments together with overall dynamics masked. Comparison listening test carried out with Technics P23 cartridge fitted with a new elliptical stylus and found the soundstage to be much more presentable and less muddled. Slight pitch waver on some notes, will compare after service. Check function of muting circuit (RH channel muted level slightly high).

Recommendations: normal motor service, replacement electrolytic pack, tighten power supply +B line with improved regualtion, service linear arm track and cueing damper.

Further recommendations: upgrade phono cartridge, upgrade captive audio output leads, consider removal of power supply components to external chassis for improved EMF reading and noise floor, consider upgraded footers and support

DSJR

11-12-2010, 22:50

Sounds good to me.

Good luck :)

Rare Bird

11-12-2010, 22:53

We used that very same turntable in the record shop i worked in early 80's, was reliable enough

chris@panteg

12-12-2010, 00:12

Thanks Guy's , i hope it may be of some interest :)

Now a small omission:doh: the cost of a Vantage service is £49 with an additional £33 for a full electric pack replacement kit.

The off board psu option price ' is in the region of £150 i think , there is also a main bearing upgrade for the SL1200/1210 with 2 option's either modify the original or an entirely new fabricated bearing made to order ! serious stuff .

:)

Marco

12-12-2010, 08:39

You're making me worried for my Techie now, Chris! :eek: ;)

Marco.

chris@panteg

12-12-2010, 10:01

Don't be Marco:)

Your new platter has put a big smile on your face ' that's what matter's ;).

Richard has 30 years experience with servicing turntables and Direct Drive is his speciality , he told me he bought an LP12 once and used it for a very very brief time , also Marco i did ask for you ' if he could contribute here ' but is absolutely not interested in online forum's , too much nastiness and willy waver's (his words) .

But a really nice bloke and even in the short time i met him , i got the impression this guy knows a hell of a lot about DD turntables and indeed turntables in general :)

Darren

15-12-2010, 13:12

Hi Chris,
Do you have some contact details for Vantage Audio Please?

I agree with much of what he says re Internet forums - they are chock full of nasty, small minded tossers. But i have to say that AOS is different.

I get the feeling that Marco doesn take much shit........:)

hifi_dave

15-12-2010, 18:08

There is very little aggression and nastiness on this Forum, unlike some where I don't contribute as much as I could because of small mindedness and aggression.

Reid Malenfant

15-12-2010, 18:16

There is very little aggression and nastiness on this Forum, unlike some where I don't contribute as much as I could because of small mindedness and aggression.
I totally agree Dave.

In fact i used to post on a couple of other forums to do with AV & DIY stuff, but as soon as i found AoS i found myself no longer bothering with the others :eyebrows:

It just appears that lots of fairly like minded people (read reasonable) decided to make a home here & long may it stay that way :)

Big Vern

15-12-2010, 18:53

Hi Chris,

Glad to hear you got to meet Richard - he is one of the nicest people you could wish to meet; he regularly goes out of his way to help his customers :)

Over the last six years, he's done quite a bit for me, including providing me with the entire wiring loom for my system! He's one of those guys that just quietly gets on with things, adroitly turning his hand to just about anything audio related, be it repairs, tweaks or bespoke hardware items (SP 10 plinth springs to mind).

Where Richard really excels is in the engineering field - some of his armboards, for example, are works of art (see the photos of the Onkyo armboard on my PX-100M thread) and his cosmetic work is quite stunning. Take a look at some of the cracked plinth repairs he's undertaken on a number of Trio L-07Ds; they are perfection. It was Richard's amazing repair work on Howard's L-07D that gave rise to H's passion for the L-07D and ultimately saw the birth of www.l-07d.com

Bottom line - he's an enthusiast with a passion for what he does. Okay, I'm not being paid to type all of this, even if it seems like I may well be on the Vantage Audio payroll :lol: I'm just very grateful to Richard for all of the help he's given to me over the years and I appreciate him for what he is; a lovely, genuine guy

Good luck with the SL-QL1, Chris, I have no doubt it will be extra superb when you get it back...

Best Wishes,

Paul.

chris@panteg

16-12-2010, 09:42

Thanks Paul

Sorry for not getting back to this ' i have got the lurgy yet again but here is a link to Vantage Audio ' take a look at the gallery :)

http://vantageaudio.com/

Sting

16-12-2010, 17:38

Hi,

Do you have their adress?

Should we just send pur stuff there?

Is there a typical lead time with him?

Thanks!

Marco

16-12-2010, 17:51

Hi 'Sting',

Welcome to AoS :)

Before we answer your query, could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself to our community, by providing your real first name (which I'm sure "The" isn't ;)), system details and music tastes, as this is the required procedure for new members on AoS.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

chris@panteg

16-12-2010, 18:15

Hi,

Do you have their adress?

Should we just send pur stuff there?

Is there a typical lead time with him?

Thanks!

Hi Sting

I would urge you to comply with Marco's request :)

My deck is still with Richard and i'm awaiting a further update , should hear from him tommorow.

Sting

16-12-2010, 18:22

I am not sure to understand... What is so urgent?

colinB

16-12-2010, 18:34

Interesting looking bearing on his site. It looks like he does a plinth for the 1200 as well.

chris@panteg

16-12-2010, 18:35

Go to the welcome area ' top of the page and introduce yourself :) simples

Sting

16-12-2010, 18:50

Done, not much to say really as we all are audio nuts, right?

With a not so high end analog player I am a little bit ashamed in front of all these high calibres equipments...

Marco

16-12-2010, 19:51

Hi Theo,

I've had to remove your remarks about Richard and Vantage Audio, as without undisputable evidence to confirm your accusations, they are potentially libellous, and as such we cannot host such material.

Furthermore, this is a hi-fi and music discussion site, not a place to showcase unsubstantiated rumours.

I would therefore ask that in future you refrain from commenting on any matters in the audio section of the forum which have nothing to do with hi-fi or music.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation :)

Marco.

MCRU

16-12-2010, 20:04

Must say his website needs some work on it, takes an age to load!

The Grand Wazoo

16-12-2010, 20:22

Theo,
You're making it hard for us to allow you to keep your posting rights here.

Sting

16-12-2010, 20:32

I am afraid your comment says it all...

You censure my post about what I have found to be useful information to know about this vantageaudio thing on the ground this is not a music discussion.

On the other hand you do not remove Paul's very partial feedback on this which is not music related as far as I know..;

Is this consistant?

Are you a friend of Vantage Audio?

The Grand Wazoo

16-12-2010, 20:35

Paul wrote of a first hand experience. You are passing on potentially libellous hearsay.
I have never had anything to do with this company, nor do I know it's owner - your post was the first time I have even seen his name.

Sting

16-12-2010, 20:40

Libellous hearsay... Shouldn't wome down?

Marco

16-12-2010, 20:44

Hi Theo,

Chris is right. Unless you can provide us with undisputable evidence which confirms your accusations against Richard, then I'm afraid we cannot allow your potentially libellous remarks to stand.

Is this the only reason you joined AoS - to bad-mouth Richard and Vantage Audio? Do you have a grudge against his company and him? I have no connection whatsoever with Richard. I am simply interested in the truth. We don't 'do' unsubstantiated rumours!

I must warn you, if you don't comply with my request and continue posting libellous hearsay, then you will be banned from our community with immediate effect. Please don't make me have to do that.

Marco.

The Grand Wazoo

16-12-2010, 20:45

Shouldn't wome down?

I don't understand what that last comment means but, I will copy here for you what Marco said to you the first time you posted this 'information' in case you chose not to read it:

Hi Theo,

I've had to remove your remarks about Richard and Vantage Audio, as without undisputable evidence to confirm your accusations, they are potentially libellous, and as such we cannot host such material.

Furthermore, this is a hi-fi and music discussion site, not a place to showcase unsubstantiated rumours.

I would therefore ask that in future you refrain from commenting on any matters in the audio section of the forum which have nothing to do with hi-fi or music.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation

Marco.

In short, you were asked nicely to not do again what you had just done. Then you went and did it again.
Refusing to comply with a direct request from the owner of a website who's guest you are, so that he may not be placed in a difficult legal situation makes it hard to allow you to keep posting.

chris@panteg

16-12-2010, 20:49

Theo has just asked to be my friend ! and yet on his profile he's made what looks like a libelous and nasty accusation against Richard , what the hell are you about Theo:steam:

Sting

16-12-2010, 20:51

Sorry Marco, I did not know Richard was a friend of yours.

The reason I was here was that I was seeking advice on this repair boutique and from any other good one. I have read of Vantage Audio from various sources, with very contrasting feedback, in fact quite black and white.

Anything wrong?

Sting

16-12-2010, 20:54

Sorry Chris, this is a mistake.

I did not know you are also a friend of Vantage or maybe Vantage itself!

Best of luck

chris@panteg

16-12-2010, 20:57

Theo ' i find it hard to believe that Richard might make off with my QL1 in fact laughable ? when you consider most of the critical components will need replacing , its worth pointing out some of the components he replace's he could sell if he wants .

Perhaps this is what you mean , but i have no problem with that:)

chris@panteg

16-12-2010, 21:02

Sorry Chris, this is a mistake.

I did not know you are also a friend of Vantage or maybe Vantage itself!

Best of luck

Hi Theo

I wouldn't say i was a friend ' i met a Richard 2 weeks ago ! a friendly and helpful guy , anyone that screws me over won't be my pal for long , but i will be gobsmacked if what you say is true :scratch: but like i said ' i think you might have the wrong end of the stick as it were.

The simple awnser is to wait for the return of my deck ! which should be in the new year .

Sting

16-12-2010, 21:24

You are right Chris.

Wait and see what's happening.

Please note however the feedback I have got was a for a (failed then) repair of a much sought after TT (Thorens/Luxman/Exclusive but not sure).

Not sure the same thing would happen on your TT, even though when I was younger I was very interested myself in these radial design!

regards

Big Vern

16-12-2010, 21:26

Dear All,

I've missed what's been typed about Richard at Vantage and from the tenor of surrounding posts I'm not sorry.

I speak as I find - over the years, Richard has had thousands of pounds worth of turntable belonging to me in his custody (Onkyo PX-100M, Nakamichi TX-1000, Denon DP-100M, Kenwood L-07D) and they have returned to my care all the better for being in his.

Chris, looking forward to hearing how things are in the New Year... thanks for the link in your last post...I enjoy looking at 'The Gallery', not least because a fair percentage of the featured items belong to me :eek:

Best wishes,

Paul.

Sting

16-12-2010, 21:30

Such a list is impressive, notably the DP-100M which reminds me of the golden age of the POA power amplifiers...

May I ask if the repairs "richard" did were doen in a timely manner of if they took many months as stated in some other forum?

Do you still have this DP-100M?

regards

Sting

16-12-2010, 21:44

Good luck!

Sting

16-12-2010, 21:44

I will wait till you have got your deveice back then

Big Vern

16-12-2010, 22:06

Hi Theo,

I was very happy with the time taken, measured in perhaps several weeks...probably the biggest headache is getting the turntables to and from, as posting would not be an option!!!!...but it's a day for me to get there and back or for Richard to do likewise.

The Denon DP-100M - it's a stunning turntable - certainly one of the best direct drives to come out of Japan. Do I still have it....you bet! :)

Best Wishes,

Paul.

chris@panteg

17-12-2010, 09:10

Hi Guy's

Just had an email from Richard :) and all is well ! here is a list of the work done so far.

1) Main circuit PCB tested and electrolytic pack installed; tested satisfactory

2) New thrust plate assembly part-machined and ready for final finishing and installation

3) Replacement set of phono cables constructed (VANTAGEaudio 'marina' SPC; silver plated copper, PTFE insulation; 50 inch length' nylon braid sheath)

4) Internal PSU components and PCB local regulation/filtration point work currently in progrss

5) General service and lubrication to be carried out after completion of items above

All looks good ' very happy with the communication .

Marco

17-12-2010, 10:52

Hi Chris,

That's great news, mate. Richard is sound as a pound - no question :)

I've no idea what that guy Theo's problem was, but trust me, if Richard was in any way 'dodgy', the very small world which hi-fi enthusiasts populate, would soon know all about it!! ;)

So relax (not that you weren't doing so already) and look forward to getting your T/T back sounding better than ever! :cool:

Marco.

chris@panteg

17-12-2010, 11:12

Thanks Marco:)

Yes ! from the moment i met Richard i had no doubt that my deck was in good hands , what has startled me though was how much better he can make it , it was going to be just a service with some caps replaced and so on.

But as you can see ' i had a few extras added ! i could have gone further with a complete and bespoke outboard psu ! now i know i could do with a new cartridge for my 1210 but that can wait , i'm rather fond of this deck and having it restored and improved so it can last me perhaps another 20 years would be wonderful .

bubba45

18-12-2010, 16:59

Hi Chris
How long ago did you leave your deck with Richard?

chris@panteg

18-12-2010, 17:12

Hi Jason

2 weeks ago and have recieved good comms since :)

Are you still waiting for your SP10 ?

bubba45

18-12-2010, 21:27

Yeah
They recieved the SP10 on 22nd November and sent me a couple of initial e-mails with a quick overview of the the assessment of work needed.

However I was waiting for a final quote which included a full refurb of the PSU from 28/11/10 and I only got the quote today after again asking where it was.

I hope the quality of the work is better then the customer service. It should be as all feedback from elsewhere has been good.
When is yours due back?

MCRU

18-12-2010, 21:38

Every supplier has his good points and bad points, no one is perfect, one thing you don't do is make derogatory comments about them on a public forum, if there is a beef take it up with them directly and don't try to harm their reputation in public I say!

There is no substitute for talking, e-mails are a pain in the bum sometimes mainly due to spam folders taking messages and hiding them!

Technics Sl1210 Mk5/Mission 774SM/DL160; Technics Sl1210Mk2/Ortofon VMS20eMKII; Technics SL1210MK2/(Jelco)LAD Tonearm/Nagoaka MP20; Systemdek Transcription/Mission 774 Original/Ortofon VMS20e MKII.
Other Carts:
AT120e, AT440MLa, AT110e,Goldring 1****, Pickering XV15-625e
2X Marantz CD5400
marantz PM7300,Rotel RA960 BX; Cambridge Audio 640P X 2
Wharfedale 9.1; Tannoy Mercury F1.
(Technics SP10 MKII being serviced by Vantage Audio; to be fitted with (Jelco) LAD Tonearm on return.)

that is quite a collection mate, I long for an SP10

bubba45

18-12-2010, 22:24

I have talked to him and I don't think I've made a derogatory remark about him / Vantage Audio.
Every post I've read on any forum says that the work is quality. Certainly the work he shows on his website looks great and he clearly knows his way around a DD table.
I'm just disappointed by the communication and made one comment on it.
He / they are still doing the refurb work for me and I'm still buying a PSU from him when the new stock arrives in February, so one small comment isn't really running him / them down is it?

Is it one man or a couple of people by the way? All the e-mails refer to a team? Just curious.

As for the SP10 I briefly had it playing before I sent it off and it is wonderful. Should look great and function brilliantly when it returns.

chris@panteg

19-12-2010, 08:47

Hi Jason

Richard did say in the new year ' i think my deck is quite an easy project for him to complete ! compared to an SP10 or LO7D , he told me his son works with him ! so its a very small family buisiness as i understand it .

Marco

19-12-2010, 10:44

JazzBones

19-12-2010, 14:29

The thing is, when dealing with small, specialist companies, you have to make allowances for the fact that they don't have the same infrastructure in place, compared with bigger organisations, to guarantee similar levels of efficiency. Therefore you must allow more time for work to be carried out than normal, and sometimes there will be delays. However, nine times out of ten, there's nothing 'dodgy' going on!

Small companies like Vantage Audio will generally be working flat out most of the time to earn a decent living, and so will often take on more work than they can realistically handle, which can lead to the delays some have experienced. If quoted, say, three weeks for completion of any work, then add another couple of weeks on top, and that'll usually be about right...

But that's the price you pay for access to such expertise, so the best thing to do is be patient, sit tight, and you'll reap the rewards when your gear comes back sounding better than ever!! :)

Marco.

You're right on the button about this one. Maybe we forget that some of the big name manufacturers whose products we enjoy more than likely started out as one fella, a bench, a table lamp, a pile of tools and a helluva lot of good ideas... respect mate.

Ron :)

JazzBones

19-12-2010, 14:31

PS An example is Mike New and his bearing and platter for the Tekko 12**, yes?

Ron

Big Vern

19-12-2010, 16:22

Marco,

Post 47...spot on...a very sound approach :) Richard is a very obliging chap, and will always try to help - it is sometimes easy to forget that overhauling/repairing/tweaking obsolete high end Japanese turntables is a pretty specialist, time consuming job. When I bought my L07D back in 2003, it was broken (but initially would play records using one set of coils!)...ultimately, it gave up the ghost, the platter spinning at CD speeds :eek: I tried a number of repair establishments, paying one good money to tell me 'it's scrap'! :doh: Then I stumbled across Vantage...

7 years on, and it's not missed a quartz lock! Furthermore, the tonearm and bearing were serviced; what a difference...

I think Chris is in for a bit of a treat :)

Best Wishes,

Paul.

Techno Commander

19-12-2010, 16:38

The thing is, when dealing with small, specialist companies, you have to make allowances for the fact that they don't have the same infrastructure in place, compared with bigger organisations, to guarantee similar levels of efficiency. Therefore you must allow more time for work to be carried out than normal, and sometimes there will be delays. However, nine times out of ten, there's nothing 'dodgy' going on!

Small companies like Vantage Audio will generally be working flat out most of the time to earn a decent living, and so will often take on more work than they can realistically handle, which can lead to the delays some have experienced. If quoted, say, three weeks for completion of any work, then add another couple of weeks on top, and that'll usually be about right...

But that's the price you pay for access to such expertise, so the best thing to do is be patient, sit tight, and you'll reap the rewards when your gear comes back sounding better than ever!! :)

Marco.

Indeed. I had to send my VRDS 10 away for repair and trying to find someone who could asctually do the repair was an effort in itself. The person I sent it to "probably" could have provided better communication to me. However, he has done the (almost) impossible and for that reason alone, I have to give them credit.

I will make a separate thread when it returns. But I wanted to echo Marcos comment that sometimes these specialists have certain idiosyncrasies and these must be taken into account.

chris@panteg

19-12-2010, 16:38

:)

The 1210 going head to head with it when it comes back ;)

chris@panteg

11-01-2011, 12:26

Ok Chaps a quick update

Richard has finished work on my SL-QL1 and there was quite a bit of work involved , as well as the service all the electric components and caps etc , have been replaced , but also things like the trim pots and so on.

The linear arm has been restored to perfect working order , new phono leads fitted which are Vantage's own design , a new bearing thrust plate .

The psu has been worked over and tightened up , the cost is more than i originally intended ! upsetting my cartridge plans :doh: but i really wanted to do this and now will see the results , hopefully soon:)

colinB

11-01-2011, 12:45

Nice one chris. All things considered the work was done quickly.
I wish he would put more info on his site, thats an interesting looking bearing he does for the 1200.

Tarzan

11-01-2011, 16:11

Do we know any more about the Vantage Audio Bearing, any images?

colinB

13-01-2011, 15:19

There is a image on his site but it has no info. It looks like it has a base unit fitted on the underneath.
Have to send an inquiery e mail

colinB

13-01-2011, 15:23

Oh! One thousand posts. Do i get a badge?
Thanks to all AOS members thanks for all your help;)

chris@panteg

14-01-2011, 00:07

Nice one chris. All things considered the work was done quickly.
I wish he would put more info on his site, thats an interesting looking bearing he does for the 1200.

Thanks Colin

All being well Richard will be bringing the QL1 to my house next weekend the 22nd , he is also bringing a standard QL1 from his own collection to compare ! and delivering Jason's SP10 mk2 probably 1st .

I have exchanged a number of email's with Richard and of course i have asked all sorts of questions ! some of the information Richard has divulged has been absolutely fascinating , especially regarding the SL1200 .

Just looking forward to hearing my QL1 :)

Marco

14-01-2011, 00:27

Hi Chris,

I have exchanged a number of email's with Richard and of course i have asked all sorts of questions ! some of the information Richard has divulged has been absolutely fascinating , especially regarding the SL1200 .

Some of it is shocking to be frank , but i won't be discussing it on any forum .

Lol - so why bother mentioning it? ;)

Spill the beans either here or via PM :)

Marco.

chris@panteg

14-01-2011, 00:40

Hi Marco

Your quite right of course :doh: but i will PM you shortly , its important stuff .

Alex_UK

14-01-2011, 08:07

Hi Marco

Your quite right of course :doh: but i will PM you shortly , its important stuff .

Well you certainly know how to set up an air of intrigue Chris! Why can't it be discussed on the forum? :scratch: Is it really that shocking? :eek: Come on, like Marco said, spill the beans! ;)

bubba45

14-01-2011, 08:09

Oh you can't do that!!!!!!:doh:

That's just playing with our minds Chris!!!!!!!!!:):mental::)

Spill the beans here or PM all us SL1210 owners please.....:scratch:

That's like the most beautiful woman in the world walking over to you in a bar, stroking your thigh whilst also seductively whispering in your ear "I'd like to shag you blind...but I can't because I'm married", and then walking out the bar with her husband.:(:lol:

(P.S. I'd just like to add that I have never met Chris, I don't think he's beautiful and he's never made a pass at me)

chris@panteg

14-01-2011, 10:13

chris@panteg

17-01-2011, 11:34

An update :)

Richard is bringing my SL-QL1 to my humble abode next weekend ! he is also bringing a std deck from his own collection for comparison , i can't ask for better service than this :).

If there is time , he may take a listen to my modded 1210 and some thoughts on it , it will be interesting .

Marco

17-01-2011, 11:37

Indeed, Chris - please keep us posted! :)

Marco.

chris@panteg

17-01-2011, 11:41

Hi Marco

Yes that's a promise :)

bubba45

22-01-2011, 18:26

chris@panteg

22-01-2011, 21:35

So Chris I guess you must have your QL1 set up now as Richard dropped my SP10 off on his way up to you?
He's done an amazing job with this.
Sounds fantastic and looks the dogs too.
He was gonna compare yours with his standard QL1 in your system, so how's it sound?

Hi Jason

Bloody marvelous :) , the standard deck is actually another customer's as it turned out , i'm pleased your SP10 is doing the biz !

What a top bloke though , we spent about two and a half hours compairing the decks and a fair bit of chatting ! my QL1 sounds so much better , clarity ' detail ' more open with far far better bass definition , and amazingly it can be improved so much further , but as Richard pointed out there is a point when you have to consider whether the overall cost is worthwhile .

But the feet can be improved upon and something which knocked me sideways was the original rubber mat ! instead of replacing it , Richard produced almost out of the hat , an identical mat which has been treated , looking and feeling like the Achromat :scratch: it was rock solid , completely flat and sounded noticebly better, apparently a guy in Japan used some special process and Richard will try and find out some more details .

The best bit though was an original Technics 205 cartridge ,this sounded amazing on my QL1 , i want one .

More later:)

chris@panteg

22-01-2011, 22:16

Richard has a rather nice collection of original Technics T4P P mount cartridges .

As well as the 205 he has two 310mc's , we didn't have time to hear these but the 205 :eek: is one of the best MM's i have ever heard , going into my Trichord Diablo , i think the boron cantilever might have something to do with it , it sounded so effortless and detailed with a lovely sweet natural tone and timbre .

Richard fitted a set of new phono leads to the QL1 , its a yello woven cable terminated with neutrik plugs and it looks to be superb quality .

Richard wanted to check over and test my Timestep/1210 but unfortunately he forgot to bring some kit but we spent so much time listening to music ! it would have been a push for time anyway.

Richard feels quite strongly that the 1200mk2 is a little misunderstood ! for example the onboard psu components ! instead of throwing them away for either the Timestep or PH , they can be removed and put in a case and you can obtain a similar improvemnt , he tells me the original components are of a high quality and should not be dismissed so readily .

This could be an alternative option for those on a tight budget with the confidence and skills required .

chris@panteg

22-01-2011, 22:26

I don't know why there is an angry face at the top of my last post :scratch: not sure how that got there .

Jason , Richard told me he had to do some work on your SP10 psu ! at your place ' pretty damn good service ehh :)

WOStantonCS100

23-01-2011, 00:32

Hi Jason

Bloody marvelous :) , the standard deck is actually another customer's as it turned out , i'm pleased your SP10 is doing the biz !

What a top bloke though , we spent about two and a half hours compairing the decks and a fair bit of chatting ! my QL1 sounds so much better , clarity ' detail ' more open with far far better bass definition , and amazingly it can be improved so much further , but as Richard pointed out there is a point when you have to consider whether the overall cost is worthwhile .

But the feet can be improved upon and something which knocked me sideways was the original rubber mat ! instead of replacing it , Richard produced almost out of the hat , an identical mat which has been treated , looking and feeling like the Achromat :scratch: it was rock solid , completely flat and sounded noticebly better, apparently a guy in Japan used some special process and Richard will try and find out some more details .

The best bit though was an original Technics 205 cartridge ,this sounded amazing on my QL1 , i want one .

More later:)

Hmmm... I gave my son my QL1. I could always say I let him "borrow" it; or, I could just ransack his room and rob him blind! I always did like the deck. There was just a hint of W/F, probably a small matter to work out. This post has me thinking of further possibilities.

chris@panteg

23-01-2011, 11:55

Hi Biff

Yes you could but... if you read my last paragraph again ! This is perhaps the drawback of this deck , as going back to my P22 cartridge with a cheap £9 stylus was a bit of letdown !

Still sounding good but the 205 made the deck sing and as Richard tells me they are going for silly money on eBay , as much as £300 :eek: crazy .

There is an alternative however , an SAS sylus from Jico for my P22 will give me something of the 205 clarity for about £70 .

I think i will get the Jico stylus but in the meantime use my AT3482 as its quite a bit livelier than the cheap stylus i have on the P22.

One last point i need to make and its important i think , i am not saying go out and buy a QL1 , get it modded and serviced and you have a world beater , i just like the deck and its design but i wanted it restored and improved a little , i use it in my 2nd (family) system .

You could buy a Rega RP1 or Project deck and get better results , i just like this quirky and clever piece of japanese engineering:)

Marco

23-01-2011, 11:57

You could buy a Rega RP1 or Project deck and get better results...

Personally, I doubt it! ;)

Marco.

bubba45

23-01-2011, 13:23

Hi Chris
Richard and his son are a genuinely decent lovely couple of blokes. Very nice to meet them at last.

The work he's done is fantastic and here's a link to some photos he took and has put on his site:

http://www.vantageaudio.com/info/KL101.htm

I don't think it fully captures what a shocking state the actual chasis was in when I got it as I had to remove a load of lacquer / varnish that had corroded, gone yellow and was flaking off.

They said the person who had previously owned it had tried a refurb but made a hash of it. Richard also reckons its been a well used, but not well loved SP10, however it now sings.
In the photos you can see the DIY PSU that came with it which Richard and son decribed as the worst PSU he had ever seen. Dangerous was how he actually described it. He rebuilt it FOC to keep me going until his new batch of PSU's are ready.
The SP10 is now set up as best I can get it and sounds great to be honest so far. It's got the LAD / Jelco arm and MP20 mounted with an acrylic mat until your old Herbies mat gets here.

Stunning sound. Sings beautifully. And the best thing? As I sloly upgrade the mats / feet / plinth / arm / carts / PSU it will only get better and better and better.

He's got my SL7 for a service and maybe a few upgrades dependant on the cost. I'm tempted by the JICO stylus for the P202 cartridge on mine too. Richard says it will be a definite improvement over the elliptial styli that you and I are both using.

I could see myself passing a lot of work his way in future as I'm also tempted by having the 1210 PSU mounted externally. He told me the same as you that the original Technics PSU is a piece of precision electronics but just needs to be mounted externally in an enclosure.

Very tempting.

I am a smiling little TT freak today.

chris@panteg

23-01-2011, 14:12

Hi Marco

Thanks :) yes i think so too ! Fitted with the 205 , that was a surprise , i heard it was good , if the Jico can give me some of that , i will be a happy chappy .

Richard tells me the QL1 and DL1 along with the SL10/SL7/SL15 are the best of Technics linear tracking TT's , there also a programmable version of the QL1 ,the SL-QL15 .

Further upgrades are a new sub-base , better feet , outboard psu and a new platter made from either bronze, copper or brass , with copper being Richard's preference , he can do the same with the 1200/1210 also .

He machine's them to the same weight/mass as the original .

Marco , i know you will want to know this ! He does not have problem with the MN platter if you prefer it over the stock item ! all well and good , its just for him the motor to platter interface is already optimum and Technics got it right in the 1st place , here for the benefit of other's reading this , is a quote from Richard .

'
The fundamental design of this motor does not depend upon over-specified platter mass. The design is more dependant upon the number and position of the pole pieces in relation to the mass of the platter. Peak and/or optimum perfomance for all this was worked out many moons ago.

But if you go for the high mass platter route and prefer it , then that's fine .

Richard's philosphy about upgrading these DD's is to start from a reference point that you are happy with and work from there , with an emphasis on ' if it can be improved for minimal cost ' going to something at higher cost then you have to stand back and say to yourself ' well for that money i can have an SP10 or LO7D , the LO7D is Richard's preffered deck BTW.

You see what he's saying here Marco , with my QL1 i could have gone much further but Richard pointed out ' there is a point when its simply not worthwhile .

He believes the 1200 to be an excellent deck but that the SP10 is a step up , but at the end of the day its whatever you are most happy with ! That's what counts :)

chris@panteg

23-01-2011, 14:22

Hi Jason

I posted the mat on tuesday:scratch: ,you should have it monday at the latest , let me know and i will chase it up if not .

bubba45

23-01-2011, 19:40

Its ok Chris the mat's at the postal depot waiting for me to collect it. I just haven't been able to collect since Thursday but should do tomorrow.

colinB

23-01-2011, 20:40

If he thinks the regulator on the 1200 is ok how come he has a PSU advertised on his site :scratch:

chris@panteg

23-01-2011, 23:08

Hi Colin

Good question , Richard never spoke to me about the regulator ? but what he did say was to remove the internal psu components and house them in a separate case ! this requires some care but he can do this safely or alternatively a completely new bespoke psu from scratch .

He is not saying doing this is the best option ! Just an alternative way if your on a budget , his own psu or a PH , Timestep or whatever can take things further , its simply a question of how far you want to go.

With my QL1 i could have the internal psu placed in a case or a completley new bespoke item made up , but also the internal psu tightened up and tweeked a little , the latter option i felt was best for me :).

Marco

23-01-2011, 23:59

Hi Chris,

Thanks :) yes i think so too ! Fitted with the 205 , that was a surprise , i heard it was good , if the Jico can give me some of that , i will be a happy chappy .

It's a lovely little deck that with some judicious fettling (I'm sure Richard knows what he's doing here) will outperform quite a few modern T/Ts.

Marco , i know you will want to know this ! He does not have problem with the MN platter if you prefer it over the stock item ! all well and good , its just for him the motor to platter interface is already optimum and Technics got it right in the 1st place , here for the benefit of other's reading this , is a quote from Richard .

The fundamental design of this motor does not depend upon over-specified platter mass. The design is more dependant upon the number and position of the pole pieces in relation to the mass of the platter. Peak and/or optimum perfomance for all this was worked out many moons ago.

That's all good and well, and I'm not saying he's wrong, per se.

However, the fact remains that the stock platter is quite resonant and not particularly well made (although it's ok considering it was built to a price). Upgrading it by fitting one of Mike New's beautifully engineered Copper Composite Platters, massively improves the audio performance of an SL-1200/1210, as a result of removing the undesirable sonic signature (I can explain this, if necessary) imparted by the inferior stock platter.

Trust me, anyone who doubts this would soon have their ears opened after one spin of an album! Quite honesty, there is no comparison. I can't put it any more succinctly than that.

Has Richard heard a Techie fitted with an MN bearing and platter? If not, then he should A.S.A.P, as all the theories in the world about how 'perfect' Technics made the original design, mean zippo without the relevant experience of hearing what the effect is of some of the current modifications recommended here on AoS! ;)

Richard's philosphy about upgrading these DD's is to start from a reference point that you are happy with and work from there , with an emphasis on ' if it can be improved for minimal cost ' going to something at higher cost then you have to stand back and say to yourself ' well for that money i can have an SP10 or LO7D , the LO7D is Richard's preffered deck BTW.

As you know, I love the L-07D. Before I had the MN platter and SR5 fitted, it was the best D/D deck I'd ever heard. However, since fitting the above items, the performance of my T/T has increased quite considerably. Therefore, I would like to revisit the situation by taking my T/T to Dave's to compare again to his L-07D, where I suspect this time it will give it an even closer run for its money.

I also love SP10s, and I've heard a few very good ones, but quite simply I've not heard any SP10 sound as good as my 1210 currently does, and in that respect, I'd put my T/T up against any SP10 out there fitted with the same arm and cartridge. Therefore, based on considerable relevant experience, I'm afraid I don't buy the notion that an SL-1200 or 1210 can't be made to equal or outperform a stock SP10.

The policy of 'improving things for minimal cost', as far as the SL-1200/1210 goes, is laudable (indeed AoS champions SPPV), but in this instance it only gets you so far. The really 'big hitting' modifications to the Techie sadly are also those which cost the most money, such as Paul Hynes SR5 PSU and Mike New's bearing and platter. Until Richard hears exactly what those items do, when fitted to an SL-1200/1210, he'll remain ignorant of the sonic influence they have. It's that simple.

You see what he's saying here Marco , with my QL1 i could have gone much further but Richard pointed out ' there is a point when its simply not worthwhile .

He believes the 1200 to be an excellent deck but that the SP10 is a step up...

Well, I'm sorry; Richard and I will have to agree to disagree on that one. Perhaps I should visit him and take my (highly) modded 1210 with me, so he can compare it to one of his SP10s? I'm sure that the exercise would be educational for both of us! :cool:

...but at the end of the day its whatever you are most happy with ! That's what counts

Indeed. Happiness is in owning a killer T/T and a sizeable record collection! :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

chris@panteg

24-01-2011, 00:27

Hi Marco

I'm quite happy to accept everything you say , but i am unable to answer on Richard's behalf as this is simply quite wrong ! i feel perhaps it was a mistake to post some of his view's , even though he did give me his permission to disclose some information.

I genuinely thought it might be useful and of help , but it seems to be backfiring and confusing Richard(sondek) for example.

I have just recieved a msg from Richard regarding his discomfort at discussing his views via a 3rd party , but he has asked me to forward a msg to you Marco , and to add he will not join and contribute to any forums .

Marco

24-01-2011, 00:30

Hi Chris,

That's a shame, but I respect Richard's decision. Please forward me his message :)

Marco.

chris@panteg

25-01-2011, 12:47

Had a bit of a late night listen and again this morning , 1st the P22 with its cheap but ok stylus then the AT3482 .

Very happy with way its sounding , it really is quite an improvement ! Everything has just opened up , bass is clear and tuneful ,the P22 is a much lower output than the AT ,around 2.5 compared to the AT's 5mv , both have spherical tips i believe , the AT3482 is noticebly more forceful but with it a little ragged at times but bloody hell for £15 from the states , its very good indeed.

I am getting a Jico SAS stylus for the P22 ,should be here in a couple of weeks , even with the cheap stylus the P22 is a much more refined cart than the AT3482 .

Photo's to come later :) batteries all dead:(

Tarzan

26-01-2011, 00:00

Chris, for a cheap thrill, try a Stanton 520V3 for a score, it is as much fun as you can have and whilst keeping your clothes on:)

chris@panteg

26-01-2011, 08:52

Chris, for a cheap thrill, try a Stanton 520V3 for a score, it is as much fun as you can have and whilst keeping your clothes on:)

:lol: :hmm: give that some thought ,as i would like another cartridge for the QL1 ! Any experience of the pickering P-mounts ?

just checked , its not a P-mount alas .

chris@panteg

26-01-2011, 09:08

Found this but at $399 its a bit pricey but probably very good .

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/Shure_V15V-P.jpg

DSJR

26-01-2011, 09:26

Pickering UK market a "hybrid" XV15 called the "TE" which appears to have the stylus from the P mount model (all P mounts have to weigh the same and play at 1.25g I believe). It's very good in a lively and "raw" kind of way and doesn't have the slight dullness and ballistic bass of the standard Stanton 500/Pickering XV15 family models. Hopefully, the P mount version will do likewise for you.

Do Ortofon still do P mount versions of the classic OM Super models? Expensive but very good still I think.

chris@panteg

26-01-2011, 09:50

Hi Dave , thanks for that info :)

Yes do a few P-mounts , including an MC version , here is the list available from LP gear .

Ortofon OMP5E OMP 5E phono cartridge $55.00
Ortofon 305 cartridge $39.95
Ortofon 310 cartridge $59.95
Ortofon 320 cartridge $99.95
Ortofon X1-MCP phono cartridge - P-mount High Output Moving Coil $175

And some pics of the QL1 , note the scratches ! Richard could have stripped and refinished the deck but it would have pushed the cost up and i can live with it as it is , looks more obvious in the photo .

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0785.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0786.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0787.jpg

Vantage Audio phono cable , beautifully made and looking .

DSJR

26-01-2011, 09:57

The OM5 is bass light and thin toned, dictating the basic sonics of the old Pro-ject Debut's for example. Adding a 20 or 30 stylus though, lifts the sound quite noticably I think, the treble toning down and bass appearing that wasn't there so much before ;)

chris@panteg

26-01-2011, 10:14

Nice tip , Dave .

I have ordered the Jico SAS for my P22 , i assured this is the next best thing to getting an EPC205 mk3 or 4 :)

Marco

26-01-2011, 10:21

Hi Chris,

Things seem to be coming along nicely :)

You're right - I love that tonearm cable! How much does Richard charge for it? As for cartridges, I rather like the look of the Digitrac, here:

http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=300se&cat=246

There are a few interesting P-mounts on that site :cool:

Marco.

chris@panteg

26-01-2011, 10:33

Hi Marco

Thanks for that link :) , not seen that one .

The cable is rather lovely and i'm pretty certain it makes quite a difference over the original ! though some on PFM find it hard to believe or maybe i'm an audiophool:eyebrows: , Richard did return all the components he replaced incidently so i can return the deck to bog standard , like i would :rolleyes:.

The price i believe was £70 for the cable , but it normally retail's for £99 , he kindly gave me Xmas discount , what a bloke , he also gave me discount on pretty much the whole service , i didn't even ask for it :).

Marco

26-01-2011, 10:45

I'd be tempted to try one of the P-mounts on that site, as I believe the guy who runs it is quite knowledgeable about such things. The ATs shown there also look pretty good :)

That's a good price for a quality cable. It will now go on my list of recommend 'affordable' tonearm cables :cool:

Marco.

Tarzan

26-01-2011, 10:46

DSJR, the Stanton 520V3 is ANYTHING but dull, but agree about the ballistic bass, fat, round and warm, wide open midband and great fun to listen to, and to top it all a whopping 6.0v output- stupid question of all the sub £100 MM carts l have had this is my favourite( l have the Nagaoka MP110 and Stanton 681 EEE) the 520V3 has the highest output, does this have any bearing on sound quality chaps.:).

Marco

26-01-2011, 10:48

Hi Andy,

Not necessarily - it just means it's loud, with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer ;)

Great for pumping out dance tunes in clubs, but not the best for hi-fi use.

Marco.

chris@panteg

26-01-2011, 11:29

If you look at all the original Technics P-mount's , they all had an output of 2.5 ? excepting the MC's of course .

My AT3482 has 5mv and compared to the P22 , yes it appears a more exciting cartridge and louder , but go back to the Techie and it seems to have a much more refined and dynamic sound with better contrast , can't wait to hear it with the Jico.

I had a listen to some Van Der Graff just now , and it sounds like a cheap cart on a good TT if you know what i mean ! In all honesty i can't knock it for £15/16 .

My intention is to build up a small collection of these P-mounts this year , i fancy an Ortofon and a NOS Technics EPC540 from Williamthakker and possibly a Pickering .

chris@panteg

26-01-2011, 11:51

Just had an interesting msg from Richard , regarding P-mount carts and he informs me the very best T4p cart in his opinion is the Technics EPC-P100mk4

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/technics-p100cmk4.gif

Look at the spec

Type: MM, One-point suspension
Magnetic Circuit All "HPF" core, precision ground finish
Cantilever: Pure boron tapered pipe
Damper: TTDD (Technics Temperature Defence Damper)
Magnet: Disc-shaped samarium-cobalt (BH) max.=30MG Oe
Frequency response: 5-120,000 Hz
Output voltage: 1.2 mv (1 kHz), 5cm/s. zero to peak, lateral velocity (3.4 mV 1 kHz, 10 cm/s. zero topeak, 45 degrees velocity, DIN 45 500)
Channel seperation: More than 25 db (1 kHz), More than 20 db (10 kHz)
Channel balance: Within 0.5 db (1 kHz)
Compliance: 12x10-6cm/dyne (100Hz, dynamic)
DC resistance: 30 Ohm (we measure about 37-40 ohms)
Inductance: 33 mH
Impedance: 210 Ohm (1 kHz)
Recommended load resistance: 10kOhm~1MOhm
Recommended load capacitance: Less than 500 pF
Stylus tip: Linear elliptical stylus
Effective moving mass: 0.055 mg
Stylus pressure range: 1.25 +-0.25 g
Overhag adjustment range: Plug-in connector (comes with adapter for 1/2")
Weight: 6 g
Replacement stylus: EPS-P100ED4

He has tried a large number of the latest offerings on the market ,with some intetersting suggestions , the pickering TLE2 for example .

Tarzan

26-01-2011, 12:33

Hi Andy,

Not necessarily - it just means it's loud, with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer ;)

Great for pumping out dance tunes in clubs, but not the best for hi-fi use.

Marco.

Cheersfor the reply Marco,the Stanton sounds great on classical, jazz anything l has so much life and vitality and it has sentimental value- my first beat up Techie came with a rather shagged 520v3, butl was staggered at the sound:cool:

Marco

26-01-2011, 12:42

Hi Andy,

If you enjoy it, that's cool. You've got an excellentT/T, so almost any cartridge is liable to sound good.

For me, though, genuine high-fidelity music reproduction, with a Stanton, starts and ends with the 681 EEE MK III, or its equivalents :)

I'm liking that Technics, Chris! I'd go with whatever Richard recommends, as he's got the relevant experience to know what's good in the land of P-mounts :cool:

Marco.

bubba45

26-01-2011, 22:41

Hi Chris
I look forward to hearing what you think of the Jico stylus as I'm thinking of getting one for the P202 cart on my SL-7.
Richards got the TT for a service but I won't be able to get as many upgrades made to it as you have on your QL1.
The Herbie's mat has been with me for a couple of days now and wow what a difference it makes.
There's a whole layer of surface noise - crackles and pops etc - that has just disappeared and probably because of this I can hear loads of very subtle details I never knew were even on some of my most familiar records. Didn't really believe mats could make such a difference to the surface noise and detail.
I see that many people rate the Achromat or even Blue Horizon over this so when funds allow I'll get me one of those I think.
I've bought a set of these from Richard too:

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/replacement-feet.htm

Though his cost less than the OL feet and he says that VFM they are the best upgrade for my SP10 plinth.

chris@panteg

27-01-2011, 00:04

Hi Jason

Well perhaps , when you get your SL7 back , maybe i could bring it over to your's ? or even a bake off with the QL1 .

Richard is very interested too as he doesn't have a Jico stylus as of yet .

Glad the herbie is hitting the spot :) its a fine mat , i did want to keep it but there is no need to change the QL1 mat , it just needs that crazy treatment :scratch: which is still baffling me .

audio39

27-01-2011, 00:21

Hi Chris,

I've been following this thread with great interest...I have an old tangential tracking turntable manufactured by Sony. It presently has an Ortofon 2M Blue mounted on it, and most folks would be surprised at how competent a player it is.

I'm very glad your upgrades went well...I do think the day this player stops performing perfectly I will hand it over to someone to see what they can do with it. But at present it works like the day it was new.

Gotta love vinyl..well...LP's...I didn't mean anything else of course!! :doh:

chris@panteg

27-01-2011, 00:45

Hi

Looks a nice deck , i wonder if Adam has one of those in his vast collection .

Yes and part of the appeal of these decks for me (as well as sounding better than you expect) is the quirky fully automated Linear tracking arm , a slight drawback is your records need to be scrupilously clean and free of dust and fluff :).

When i get the Jico stylus , i'm going to pitch it against my Timestep1210/309/D160 or hopefully a rebodied 103R , i expect it to lose of course but hoping its not disgraced.

Enjoy your sony , that Luxman of yours looks a bit tasty:)

bubba45

01-02-2011, 10:04

chris@panteg

01-02-2011, 10:14

A quick update while i'm waiting for the Jico stylus to arrive .

Also on order from LPgear is the hyper eliptical stylus they do for my P22 as a back up.

1st of all ,a top tip if you have one of these old P-mount carts is clean the pins with good old Isopropanol;) sounds better, much better for it .

The stylus i have at the moment is a 202CS and it actually cost £13 from Me and Lurch on ebay , a friendly lady and good seller to boot !

It sounds good , in fact damn good but struggles on well recorded piano like my copy of Jacintha ' Here's to Ben ' i'm thinking its the conical stylus tip ?

But when the Jico turn's up , that will go straight on the platter and see what happen's .

The AT3482 is now banished as a last resort cart ! it suffer's from poor tracking and a tonal balance which is bleached white to my ear's , yes its good value at around £16 or whatever it is now but i would urge anyone interested in one of these descks and P-mount carts to invest in a bit more , if you have an original Technics P-mount ' don't ditch it try either the Jico or the LP gear HE stylus , i actually think the latter maybe all i need to be honest :)

Very happy with the QL1 , Richard has done a fantastic job , i would urge anyone with an old DD turntable to investigate what he can do with it , even if its completely crocked , take a look at the LO7D's he has refurbed on his site :eek: .

More when the Jico arrives.

chris@panteg

01-02-2011, 10:27

Hi Chris
How are you?
Still enjoying your QL1?
Apologies for the delayed reply - too busy reading posts, enjoying music and rearranging my lounge.
You're more than welcome to come down with your QL1 once my SL7 returns - I should have finished decorating and sorting out the seating / listening area in my lounge by then.
Richards taking a good long look at it before he gives me a quote and as I have 3 other working decks I can wait a while for him to finish it.
Have you seen he Digitrac carts on William Thakker? They look interesting for comparatively little cash.
By the way if possible as you've had both how would you characterise the difference between a Herbie's mat and an Achromat?
Jason

Hi Jason

I'm fine and thanks for asking , yes that Digitrac does look interesting , i think Marco may have spotted it too ? not sure .

Achromat vs Herbie's , mmm to be honest i like em both , but there is a difference , to my ear's the Herbie's sounds a little laid back or reticent , but i think what cart your using with it may be crucial , like an AT OC9 for example may sound just right with the Herbie's , but i'm guessing to be honest , the Achromat seems to bring greater clarity and detail and perhaps is more forward but i prefer it ! .

Bass also seems tighter and a touch leaner , but also i had the plastic cover off with the Hebie's and now with the Achromat i prefer the cover back on :scratch: ,don't know why but its staying on :).

Would love to come up and listen to your SP10 and can certainly bring my QL1 , Richard told me you been through something like 40 TT's in recent times :eek:

bubba45

01-02-2011, 11:14

Hi Chris
Yeah probably about that many TT's to be honest. About 15 years ago I dropped all my LP's off at a local charity shop because CD was the way to go.......DOH!!!!!
Anyway about 6 years ago a friend who's a DJ convinced me to buy an old Rega Planar 3 with R200 arm and a few 2nd LP's thrown in for £50 and hey presto Bob's your uncle, Marco's your aunt and I've been through numerous TT's looking for the 'right one' for me. About 40 in that time is my last estimate.
I've done quite a few tweaks and restoration jobs in that time and managed to convert at least 2 sets of friends to slowly building up a small collection of LP's. I've loved most of the TT's I've had and would recommend most of them to folk depending on their budget, etc.
I am OK at swapping capacitors etc for simple decks like AC motor/ belt drives but the Technics DD's are an altogether different ball game.
I've learnt to rewire arms and can do a pretty good job - not J7 standard ofcourse - even though the job I did on my SL7 was a quick & dirty just to check all was working.
I THINK the SP10 is the one for me, but the Pink Triangle PT1's I owned were absolutely fabulous especially with either a Mission 774 Original or 774 SM arm. Just a lovely lovely sound. Gave me goosbumps at times listening to music on them. Very neutral & detailed but somehow a little light in PRaT to my ears. Still the best TT I've ever heard except the SP10 which does seem to have PRaT to spare.
You ever owned a PT? If not if you ever get the chance to own, borrow or just have a damn good listening session then take it.
I'd like to hear a well set up PT1 and an SP10 side by side as they are both miraculous sounding 'tables.
As SatanFriendly can probably testify I do get itchy feet with TT's so who knows I may change my mind agin in a while. I doubt it though.
I'm probably looking to get an Achromat then if it brings a bit more detail. The set up I have is not dull and muddied but a bit more detail is always welcome! I like laid back too. We shall see.
Jason

chris@panteg

01-02-2011, 11:52

Ahem Jason , the pink triangle decks could sound very good indeed , however i used to own one of these beautie's :)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0153.jpg

With this psu ,what a deck it was and why did i sell it on you may ask , because i convinced myself it was for the best :doh: :doh: a great deck and i miss it .

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0216.jpg

and a rare and jolly nice pre amp:) from Doug Dunlop ,god bless him .

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/chrispanteg30/DSCF0155.jpg

Tarzan

01-02-2011, 18:47

l have an Achromat coming Thursday and can do a small review if anybody is interested:)

bubba45

01-02-2011, 18:50

bubba45

01-02-2011, 18:53

Hi Andy
I'd be interested to hear another view on the Achromat before I decide to buy one.

MCRU

01-02-2011, 18:54

l have an Achromat coming Thursday and can do a small review if anybody is interested:)

No....:ner:

chris@panteg

03-02-2011, 01:00

Never heard a Voyd but they do get very good reviews by former and current owners. AND an SME arm? Which model was it? I like the SME 309 / 310.....One day I'll get one..... But not for a very very long time probably.
Richards been in touch and is going to work his ways on the electronics, and the bearing of my SL7.
Richard's going to adjust the circuitry to remove the AC circuit so it will only run on a DC adaptor which should improve the decks performance.
I'm also getting the capacitor pack put in and he'll tidy up my hastily put together external phono cable while he's at it too.
Looking forward to its return.
I tried the cone shaped sorbothane feet he sells. They work a treat on my SP10. Depending on the cost of the SL-7 I'll try a set on one of my SL1210's too.

Hi Jason

It was the 310 , though it had an ali arm tube as opposed to the magnesium one in the current version ,the cart was Len Gregory's MusicMaker mk1 .

If you like i can bring along my Achromat when i come up to yours :)

As an aside , i've had to go back to using the AT3482 as the cheap conical stylus in the P22 has vertually given up after about 2 weeks use ' i did buy it 2 years ago , it just can't track anything taxing ! God i need that Jico .

chris@panteg

09-02-2011, 12:31

The Jico SAS stylus has arrived:) and was fitted in less than a couple of minutes.

I read somewhere on the VE , it had a berrylium cantilever ? not so ! Its actually pure Boron :youtheman: and on went my old original copy of ' Songs from the Wood ' and Velvet Green , now this is more like it , detail in bucket loads ' superb tracking , excellent bass and a very wide and deep soundstage !

I was hoping for an improvement , this is sounding very promising indeed , it may be only a p-mount cart but so far my impression is it could better than the DL160 .

More later :)

chris@panteg

10-02-2011, 23:25

Well i've had a good listen to the Jico stylus in my QL1 last night , and it sounds lovely ' a massive improvement over the cheap conical one i have , but that's not difficult in truth .

It didn't take long to break in , sounding great from the off , LP's used as well as the Tull album , Windham Hill Live , Cream ' best of , the Smiths ' hatful of hollow , XTC English Settlement , Depeche Mode ' speak and spell , Jacintha ' here's to ben , Van der graff generator ' still life , and Buddy Holly ' best of .

What was surprising was the much stronger and more solid bass , up to now i felt that perhaps the QL1 was a little light here and tended to sound a touch too lean , but not with the Jico stylus fitted to the P22 , be interesting to try an Ortofon or Pickering for a comparison .

It just sounds so smooth and has the sweetest top end i could wish for in a moving magnet cartridge , at 1st glance it doesn't look much different to the CS version ! But look closer and you can see its much better quality , service from Jico was excellent with good comms.

The cost was £67 delivered and i would say its worth it , if you have either P22/P23/P24 ,this stylus will fit all and visa versa , so if you have an SL5/6/7/10 or QL1/DL1 and have one of the above P-mounts , i strongly recommend a Jico SAS .

Oh and thanks to this lady for building it ! Well probably:)

Look at the TT , i think its an SL1510 mk2 ,er no make that an SL1500 mk2 its in silver :doh:

http://stylus.export-japan.com/images/make_stylus/worker01.jpg

Marco

10-03-2011, 01:09

Hi Chris,

Would this be of interest for your SL-Q1:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technicsl-P205CMK3-cartridge-BORON-f-SL-15-Plastic-BOX-/300533187878?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item45f92c8526

Apparently they're one of the best sounding P-mounts ever made :)

I reckon this Pickering would be also be superb: http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-PICKERING-TL-3-CARTRIDGE-AND-STYLUS-CASE-/160543857192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256128da28

Marco.

chris@panteg

10-03-2011, 11:00

Hi Marco

I see you have been doing your homework ;)

Yes that 205 is the very same cartridge ' Richard brought with him and we had a brief listen on my QL1 , all i could say was ' bloody hell :eek: one of the best MM's i have ever heard , and as you can see from the auction , there will most likely be some frantic bidding :( it may go for as much as £300 ,these things are so rare .

The Pickering is something i have been looking at ! With its stereohedron tip it could an amazing cart ? Its something i want to try though as an alternative to my P22/Jico .

At the moment I'm looking more at my 1210/309 as in a straight A-B with my QL1 ,the result was alarming and a bit of shock , but and as this has been pointed out to me ' my 160 may well be very tired, so as a little experiment and because I'm not quite ready to blow £4-500 on a new cartridge (wifey says so) I'm trying an LPgearAT95HE in the 309 , it looks to be worth a try for not that much money and might be a surprise .

bubba45

10-03-2011, 14:52

chris@panteg

11-03-2011, 00:26

I was looking at the Pickering too. Probably found it about the same time as you posted Marco but haven't got the funds right now as I'm going to get either a DL103r or DL301mk2. Haven't made my mind up which one yet.
I have a Pickering XV15 / 625e which I enjoy very very much even with a bog standard elliptical stylus so I am assuming this would also sound great.
Lovely cart the XV15 and a real keeper though if you keep the brush on it looks as weird as a 30ft purple budgie in a tutu.
Never heard a cart with a stereohedron stylus but have heard that Stanton & Pickering do them. What's supposed to be the sound difference between them, a HE, regular elliptical and a Micro line?

By the way I bought a Technics SL-DL1. DOH!!! Damn and curse this hobby!!!!

Hi Jason

If you go for the 103R , you might want to look at your phono stage and perhaps seek some advice on here .

I think with the Pickering carts, I'm just going to have to get one and find out for myself , it comes with an adapter so i can use it on both my decks , did you get the DL1 at a good price ! I sense more work for Richard ;)

bubba45

11-03-2011, 10:17

If you don't want a P-mount Pickering there's always this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120695877947&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I think they're lovely carts.

I've just seen that my DL1 is due for delivery today. It cost £56 + £12 P&P, described as working and comes with an Ortofon OMP cart rather than a Technics. I will no doubt be fiddleing around with that later on.

Also just got a 370H arm set up on one of my 1210's. Sounds bloody marvellous so far.

chris@panteg

11-03-2011, 10:22

You can still buy new V15's , funny looking thing though .

bubba45

11-03-2011, 15:15

They are weird looking things, what with the funny Stanton / Pickering 'ears' and that odd brush effort they ain't pretty or elegant.
The DL1 arrived today. Set it up and it's working pretty darned well considering. Needs a damn good clean, hasd a few cosmetic scratches to the chassis but there is a slight problem which suggests it is in need of a service by Richard - the speed is running slightly slow even with the pitch control turned to its highest.
I'm going to see if there's a service manual for the DL1 or similar and look for a further speed pot in side. Otherwise I'm a very happy man with this.
As for the DL103r / DL301 I'm going to get a Trichord Dino which will have enough gain for these carts and also adjustable impedance etc so a definite upgrade over my 640P's.
I'll most likely sell one of them off after to recoup a bit of cash.
Looking around at various posts on various forums the Dino seems able to handle a low output MC like these and is very highly rated. It's about the maximum of my budget though.
I was going to try the Ortofon T5's I own but hell may as well go the whole hog!!

chris@panteg

11-03-2011, 20:44

Jason , in my QL1 there are 2 trim pots , i would ask Richard as to what to do ' but a service is mandatory with these deck's considering its 27 years old (only made between 1982-83)

If you can Jason , try and get the same mods as i had Richard do to my deck ! even if it means waiting a while , i think its worth it :) i think performance wise it should be very close to my QL1 .

The Dino is nice phono stage , have you found one 2nd hand ? like the Diablo it really comes alive with either the PSU+ or NC though .

That's quite a selection of Techies you have now :)

bubba45

12-03-2011, 13:01

Hi Chris
Yeah its a 2nd hand Dino, a MK1 with the Dino+ PSU.It cost just over £200. There's a MK2 with Dino+ PSU for about £50 more starting price and no bids yet, but even the start price was just out of reach for me.
I'd read that the Dino+ PSU was a minimum requirement to really get these singing and the MK1 was the most I could afford. I've wanted one for a while and decided to take the plunge and go ahead. Its comes with all boxes and instructions, from a dealer with good fedback, etc etc. Anyway they have a better reputation than the 640P's which I still think are remarkable pieces of kit for the price, but at least going forward I can have a bit more flexibility with MC carts.
You're right I do have a nice Technics collection but will most likely let one of the SL1210's go in the not too distant future and just settle for 2 x 1210's, 1x SP10, 1x SL-7 and the DL1. Should be enough to keep me going!!!!!
Still can't make a definitive choice between a DL103r or a DL301. I'm leaning towards the latter to be honest. The 103r sounds to be much more sensitive to set up and the few posts I've found where people have tried both they slightly favour the 301.
But back on topic undoubtedly Richard will get a call to service and mod my DL1 and I'd like him to do the same mods for the DL1 as he did for your QL1. However my next few priorities will be for my SP10 - PSU(Richard), cart DL103r or DL301, Plinth(? Russ Collinson).
I do like these linear trackers though. Good design, robust build and great asthetic qualities even if they are very much of their time.
How's the QL1 going? Still giving your 1210 a run for its money?

chris@panteg

12-03-2011, 14:03

Hi Jason

The QL1 is going very nicely , and yes its giving my 1210/SME a scare but perhaps when i have the LPgearAT95HE it may be a very different story , will see:) i have to say never in my wildest dreams did i think it would end up sounding as good as it does , as standard it sounds good , respectable would be the best way to describe it perhaps , but a very different beast now , the stylus replacement for the supplied P22 cartridge is critical though as the cheap conical CS version's you can buy on ebay are not much cop and can give a false impression to the deck's performance ! Also the AT3482 i have been running is quite a harsh and crude sounding thing ' though LPgear can supply an upgraded stylus for it .

If anything the QL1 is sounding better now , the Jico has run in and the bits that Richard fitted have bedded down , i feel it desperately needs better feet though and Richard was telling me about a special sub-base for the deck which could be very interesting.

One must remember though that back in 1983 the DL1 was about £200 and the QL1 was about £270-80 ish , the 1200mk2 was around £220-30 , these deck's must not be confused with the cheap plastic afairs ' that technics started selling a couple of years later ! They seemed to have given up from 1986 onwards , the QL1/DL1/SL7/SL10 and the rare SL15 were all very solid and well built decks .

The Dino with PSU+ sounds like a good deal , and yes the 640p is still a cracking good budget/starter phono stage .

The 301 is a cart that i don't know much about to be honest but the 103R does have some magical qualities , it may well work superbly in your Jelco/LAD arm on the SP10 , again you can ask Richard as he knows the 103 and its variants very well .