View Full Version : Mike New platter, Oyaide MJ-12 mat & STB-MS stabiliser arrive at Marco Towers...
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 11:07
I think that 's Jim Howard ? he got into a right old argument with Dave Cawley over on the VE about his bearing mod being as good as Mike new's or Dave's bearing mod .
The thing is he was prepared to back it up with some high quality rips ! and i can't argue with that , also all his customer's say its superb .
Marco ' i don't know if you are aware but Richard of Vantage audio also has bearing and platter upgrades for the 1200/1210 ! around £140 ish for the platter and similar for the bearing , but i don't know yet what exactly he does but i will ask in my next email , (he's sorting out my other deck).
Hi Chris
Very interesting......
Please do that. This would add even more interesting choice to the growing options.
You could start a new thread about them.
Regards D S D L
chris@panteg
09-12-2010, 11:28
Yes i would if anyone's interested
I met Richard last saturday , a very nice friendly and helpfull chap indeed i would say he has a tremendous knowledge of turntables arm's and cartridge's , he told me that my little SLQL1 can be improved quite a bit , it depends on how much i want to spend ? but he needs to check it over and service it 1st .
Back to the thread as this is going off topic :o
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 11:31
Hi Neil,
Cool - but there's no point now, dude, as the Techie platter (for me) is no longer in the equation, and so now the tests in that respect are over, I may as well use it as a Frisbee! ;)
Marco.
Fair enough....I will add to my ever growing list of things to try :doh:
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 11:33
Yes i would if anyone's interested
I met Richard last saturday , a very nice friendly and helpfull chap indeed i would say he has a tremendous knowledge of turntables arm's and cartridge's , he told me that my little SLQL1 can be improved quite a bit , it depends on how much i want to spend ? but he needs to check it over and service it 1st .
Back to the thread as this is going off topic :o
I suspect that there would be many people interested :)
The problem is there is just not enough information (detailed information) on his site to help anyone realise exactly what he offers in regard to the Technics 1210/1200....imho.
Regards D S D L
chris@panteg
09-12-2010, 11:41
Thanks Neil
I will in that case ' not sure of an ETA yet but it looks like the new year , but i can start a thread when i have some info from Richard especially regarding the bearing and platter mods :)
Fair enough....I will add to my ever growing list of things to try :doh:
Lol - enjoy! Moving the magnet assembly over to the old platter to do any more bloody tests is an activity I've now consigned to history.
Regarding the other people doing Techie mods...
Yes, choice is good, but it seems Mike is the only one carrying out any fundamental changes by engineering bearings and platters of his own design - the rest are simply 'doctoring' the existing parts, which is not the same thing, quite simply because that's all they can do! ;)
Marco.
Are there not enough frying pans in the fire already? 100's of suppliers on forums all eager to offer help and advice but ultimately wanting something in return but not getting it because some helpful soul then suggests something else and the poor end user cannot make his mind up so gets frustrated and leaves. Seen it all before, WHF is the best, poor guy asks for an HDMI cable and gets 78 replies all saying this one and that one, not being funny of course just an observation.
The TT mat being a prime example.
Perhaps Marco could expand the suppliers section to include TT tweaks if he has not already done so?
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 11:46
Lol - enjoy! Moving the magnet assembly over to the old platter to do any more bloody tests is an activity I've now consigned to history.
Regarding the other people doing Techie mods...
Yes, choice is good, but it seems Mike is the only one carrying out any fundamental changes by engineering bearings and platters of his own design - the rest are simply 'doctoring' the existing parts, which is not the same thing, quite simply because that's all they can do! ;)
Marco.
All fair points but not everyone can afford to go straight to Mike's products. Better folks start somewhere than nowhere in my opinion and they now have more choices as to where to go. No doubt each option has its + and - and some will suit some set ups better than others but at least the choices are now out there.
Ummmm I think your last comment is a little unfair as neither you (you have heard many more than me) nor I have heard all the options. Some mentioned today may offer some very interesting takes on things...
If anyone has experience of the Vantage Audio or Applied Fidelity items maybe they might like to join the forum (may already be members) and tell us all about their experiences with them.
Regards D S D L
chris@panteg
09-12-2010, 11:52
Lol - enjoy! Moving the magnet assembly over to the old platter to do any more bloody tests is an activity I've now consigned to history.
Regarding the other people doing Techie mods...
Yes, choice is good, but it seems Mike is the only one carrying out any fundamental changes by engineering bearings and platters of his own design - the rest are simply 'doctoring' the existing parts, which is not the same thing, quite simply because that's all they can do! ;)
Marco.
Very fair point Marco :)
But i must point out for me there is a question mark on what the original Technics SL1200mk2 chassis can take in terms of the extra mass , hence Mike's stiffening plate .
One more thing Marco ! the SL1200 with MN bearing and your new platter would benefit from a thorough testing from someone like Noel keywood or Richard Black , i know you may scoff at the idea but i think its important and the results will be there for all to see:)
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 12:02
Are there not enough frying pans in the fire already? 100's of suppliers on forums all eager to offer help and advice but ultimately wanting something in return but not getting it because some helpful soul then suggests something else and the poor end user cannot make his mind up so gets frustrated and leaves. Seen it all before, WHF is the best, poor guy asks for an HDMI cable and gets 78 replies all saying this one and that one, not being funny of course just an observation.
The TT mat being a prime example.
Perhaps Marco could expand the suppliers section to include TT tweaks if he has not already done so?
This has always been the case though as there have always been lots of roads one can travel down....more now with the advent of the web.
Dare I suggest..... though and I am being general here, but one of the problems with some forums and the replies given is that they are given by those who just like the sound of their own typed voice and the words typed are groundless..... as those words have no actual relevant experience behind them. It is this sort of thing which makes the thread starters life difficult imho. Oh yes and I haven't mentioned those who just want to start a fight.....:( because you hear something and they can't or don't want to :doh:
My rule is I only comment if I can actual help and know something about or have direct experience of the topic being discussed....anything else is a waste of time and helps no one.
Regards D S D L
This has always been the case though as there have always been lots of roads one can travel down....more now with the advent of the web.
Dare I suggest..... though and I am being general here, but one of the problems with some forums and the replies given is that they are given by those who just like the sound of their own typed voice and the words typed are groundless..... as those words have no actual relevant experience behind them. It is this sort of thing which makes the thread starters life difficult imho. Oh yes and I haven't mentioned those who just want to start a fight.....:( because you hear something and they can't or don't want to :doh:
My rule is I only comment if I can actual help and know something about or have direct experience of the topic being discussed....anything else is a waste of time and helps no one.
Regards D S D L
quite correct
too many Mike Tyson's on forums. luckily not many here
theophile
09-12-2010, 12:35
Excuse us for having an opinion.Now where's that unsubscribe page....
Excuse us for having an opinion.Now where's that unsubscribe page....
now now, have a beer
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 12:49
Excuse us for having an opinion.Now where's that unsubscribe page....
:scratch:
Not sure what the problem is. No one was commenting on the high quality comments that have been posted in this thread (or AOS in general) or their posters....
Regards D S D L
Ammonite Audio
09-12-2010, 13:53
The Applied Fidelity mat looks to me like a completely sensible bit of design, at least the version that bolts onto the Technics platter. I do believe that the benefits of the MN platter have little to do with mass, but everything to do with mechanical integrity and strength. The Applied Fidelity mat must impart a significant extra bit of strength and stiffness to the stock platter, while providing a good interface with the record. If I still had my Technics, I'd give one a whirl!
prestonchipfryer
09-12-2010, 14:02
Are there not enough frying pans in the fire already? 100's of suppliers on forums all eager to offer help and advice but ultimately wanting something in return but not getting it because some helpful soul then suggests something else and the poor end user cannot make his mind up so gets frustrated and leaves. Seen it all before, WHF is the best, poor guy asks for an HDMI cable and gets 78 replies all saying this one and that one, not being funny of course just an observation.
The TT mat being a prime example.
Perhaps Marco could expand the suppliers section to include TT tweaks if he has not already done so?
Yes agree entirely. Confusion reigns: platter? bearing? mat? just play some bloody music and stop carping! :lolsign: David, your mains cables are stunning by the way. :)
Regards
John
Gotta dash out in a minute, guys - so just to quickly address the following:
Hi David,
Perhaps Marco could expand the suppliers section to include TT tweaks if he has not already done so?
That's a good idea - I'll get onto it A.S.A.P :)
Hi Neil,
All fair points but not everyone can afford to go straight to Mike's products. Better folks start somewhere than nowhere in my opinion and they now have more choices as to where to go. No doubt each option has its + and - and some will suit some set ups better than others but at least the choices are now out there.
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more! I said as much in my 'final conclusions' earlier. It just depends on how far you want to go.
In my view though, there are no downsides whatsoever, sonically, to using any of Mike's SL-1200/1210 modifications, whether it's his high-precision bearing or copper composite platter. Quite simply, they fundamentally address significant weaknesses (due to understandable budget constraints) in the basic design of the SL-1200/1210.
The harsh reality, whether it is unpalatable for some or not, is that Mike is currently the only one we know of doing anything genuinely innovative in terms of radically modifying (and improving) the core design of the SL-1200.
And that situation will remain until someone else has the tooling and necessary skills to re-engineer the required critical components, and crucially, provide such modifications to enthusiasts at anything resembling an affordable price!
Ummmm I think your last comment is a little unfair as neither you (you have heard many more than me) nor I have heard all the options. Some mentioned today may offer some very interesting takes on things...
I'm quite sure the mods other people are offering will significantly improve the performance of the Techie. However, the comment wasn't unfair - it was simply factual. The reason others aren't providing radical modifications to SL-1200/1210 is because they don't have the necessary tooling or engineering skills. It's as simple as that :)
Dare I suggest..... though and I am being general here, but one of the problems with some forums and the replies given is that they are given by those who just like the sound of their own typed voice and the words typed are groundless..... as those words have no actual relevant experience behind them.
You're absolutely right, and it does my head in. However on AoS the standard of contributions is generally much higher than that, and people will usually only comment on things they've had actual experience of using or of listening to.
Hi Chris,
But i must point out for me there is a question mark on what the original Technics SL1200mk2 chassis can take in terms of the extra mass , hence Mike's stiffening plate .
That may or may not be the case, but it's not something that is easy to ascertain with any certainty. As for Mike's bearing base plate, this is something that I will have fitted later in order to assess any benefit it has separately.
If you remember, I was initially quite sceptical of the likely benefits of Mike's much heavier platter, due to the effect the added mass would have on the whole turntable, chassis included.
However, as ever with these things, the proof of the pudding is in the listening - and also in the actual use of the product concerned.
The fact is the MN platter massively improves the sonic performance of the Techie, with no downsides whatsoever that I can detect. At the end of the day (for me) that's all that matters, as one can speculate and theorise until the cows come home and get nowhere.
Practical experience is ultimately what counts. Having now had that, the Mike New platter undoubtedly delivers - BIG time!! :)
One more thing Marco ! the SL1200 with MN bearing and your new platter would benefit from a thorough testing from someone like Noel keywood or Richard Black , i know you may scoff at the idea but i think its important and the results will be there for all to see
I would have no objection to that whatsoever, so if any of those chaps would be interested in testing my T/T, accordingly - bring it on! :cool:
Right, I must dash!
Laters,
Marco.
P.S Theo - chillax, dude. No-one here, as far as I can see, was criticising your perfectly valid opinion.
To avoid thread drift I've posted a message about the Achromat + Vaseline here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=169692#post169692
Each day goes by another tweak comes along for the Technics, I have plenty of grease, maybe we should try different types as it comes in 3 or 4 different thicknesses? I have some extra tacky grease as well and even some with clay powder mixed in, that is red coloured though, I think clear would be best maybe?
Give it a go, David. I'm sitting here listening to my original EMI pressing of Dark Side of the Moon (not the rather poor Mo-Fi cut) and I've never heard it sound better.
I think the Vaseline is a good consistency in that you can spread it fairly thinly and it oozes under weight to provide a complete bond. By all means try thicker and let us know what you think. I'm really amazed at the difference I'm hearing.
Back to the music...
Poor Mo-Fi cut? My original Mo-Fi cut stomped all over the EMI pressing I had from the mid 70's, the lower noise floor showing little things in the mix I can't even hear on the CD (I'll dig it out and try again ;))
sorry but it's 80's funk and soul for me
The Mo-Fi is an early one, Dave, before they went bust. 'ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING' in italics in the top bar. It sounds bloaty and ill-defined whereas the EMI cut sounds pretty good - not quite up there with the SACD but close.
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 21:56
I hate to say it but I predict grease/vaseline migration into the electrics and tears. I personally don't think any semi fluid of any type should be applied to electronic items.....what will happen if a drop falls inside onto electrified workings :eek::doh::(
I will be sticking to dry options.
Good luck...maybe I am wrong but I am going to err to the side of extreme caution.
Regards D S D L
The Mo-Fi is an early one, Dave, before they went bust. 'ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING' in italics in the top bar. It sounds bloaty and ill-defined whereas the EMI cut sounds pretty good - not quite up there with the SACD but close.
Mine's a 1979 or so Mo-fi as well. I'll get round to playing it again and see if it sounds as you describe it on my stereo.
Reid Malenfant
09-12-2010, 22:04
I hate to say it but I predict grease/vaseline migration into the electrics and tears. I personally don't think any semi fluid of any type should be applied to electronic items.....what will happen if a drop falls inside onto electrified workings :eek::doh::(
Hi Neil, i don't think Vaseline is conductive & i doubt that even 78RPM would fling anything so thick anywhere or migrate to the edge of some platter/mat interface :scratch:
Spectral Morn
09-12-2010, 22:05
Hi Neil, i don't think Vaseline is conductive & i doubt that even 78RPM would fling anything so thick anywhere or migrate to the edge of some platter/mat interface :scratch:
Maybe not.....but I don't want to find out.
With the MN platter there are no holes in it bar the centre spindle hole, but with the Technics there are two nice big ones the size of 10p pieces.
A little Talcum powder has been suggested on the net as an option. Its dry....would that work ?
Regards D S D L
I hate to say it but I predict grease/vaseline migration into the electrics and tears.
Hi Neil, I don't think there is any danger at all. The jelly is a fine layer sealed between platter and mat - there is no spillage and no sign of it at the edge. Secondly, petroleum jelly is frequently used to prevent electrical contacts from corroding and is not conductive. In fact, I've used it in an emergency as a thermal compound substitute between CPU and heatsink on PC motherboards when I needed something in a hurry.
thankyoumisterman
09-12-2010, 23:28
An improved bearing seems a must to me, if using a platter or mat with greater weight than the standard one. I thought about trying the Mike New bearing, but the cost put me off it, as did the cost of the MN platter. Jim Howard, the owner of Applied Fidelity, is offering 2 types of bearing: a remachined standard bearing, and a new bearing entirely, one he claims is acoustically decoupled, unlike the standard Techie. His pricing is lower than Mike New's, and is likely not as fine-tuned and solid a piece of machining, but several gents I've contacted about the AF bearing were enthusiastic about its sonic effects. Likewise on the screw-down mats AF offers. AF also offers tall spindles to acommodate those using extra platters and mats. He is also working on a new Technics-specific platter himself. I notice he doesn't have his new bearing listed on his website yet.
The TTWeight copper mat, which I just received, is a perfectly machined and finished disk - one side is perfectly smooth for siting an LP right on it. I'm going to try the Herbies on top of it too, just for gits and shiggles. The owner recently had a sale on his 1200-specific coppers, so the pricing was favorable. I also picked up one of his brass record weights.
The Grand Wazoo
10-12-2010, 00:29
Hi Neil,
Petroleum jelly is insoluble in water and is a water repellent and is used in conjunction with other materials to produce rust-proof treatments. Rather than being a liquid, it is categorised as a semi-solid.
People who spend time doing serious yatching (in an environment where everything is prone to get wet at any moment of the day or night) smear vaseline onto the contacts of batteries as a means of knowing that their portable appliances and emergency motors will start and continue to work.
Here's a quote from Yatching & Boating World (a forum):
More years ago than I care to remember, I too was trained to clean terminals before connection and to use petroleum jelly (afterwards) to protect the joint. If, whatever it was, then had to live in a particularly harsh environment, it was to be wrapped in “denso” tape.
Decades, yes, decades later, I have pulled equipment out of service to find perfectly preserved, functioning joints.
Wire wool had been the tool of choice for cleaning until that green (why green) abrasive material came along.
Ah, happy days……..we all had to sing “all things bright and beautiful” before cleaning up to make a joint or slapping the flux on and soldering.
I had never ever imagined being able to qualify to recount stories like this, just goes with seniority I guess !
Oh, silicone grease (looks like Vaseline) is not (do I need to repeat that?) the same.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227473
On the other hand, you suggest Talc.
This is a material that is renowned for it's use in preventing things sticking together. True, it has a low electrical conductivity, but it don't half get into things because it has such fine particles.
Spectral Morn
10-12-2010, 00:40
Hi Neil,
Petroleum jelly is insoluble in water and is a water repellent and is used in conjunction with other materials to produce rust-proof treatments. Rather than being a liquid, it is categorised as a semi-solid.
People who spend time doing serious yatching (in an environment where everything is prone to get wet at any moment of the day or night) smear vaseline onto the contacts of batteries as a means of knowing that their portable appliances and emergency motors will start and continue to work.
Here's a quote from Yatching & Boating World (a forum):
More years ago than I care to remember, I too was trained to clean terminals before connection and to use petroleum jelly (afterwards) to protect the joint. If, whatever it was, then had to live in a particularly harsh environment, it was to be wrapped in “denso” tape.
Decades, yes, decades later, I have pulled equipment out of service to find perfectly preserved, functioning joints.
Wire wool had been the tool of choice for cleaning until that green (why green) abrasive material came along.
Ah, happy days……..we all had to sing “all things bright and beautiful” before cleaning up to make a joint or slapping the flux on and soldering.
I had never ever imagined being able to qualify to recount stories like this, just goes with seniority I guess !
Oh, silicone grease (looks like Vaseline) is not (do I need to repeat that?) the same.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227473
On the other hand, you suggest Talc.
This is a material that is renowned for it's use in preventing things sticking together. True, it has a low electrical conductivity, but it don't half get into things because it has such fine particles.
Interesting stuff Chris.
Regards D S D L
The Grand Wazoo
10-12-2010, 00:44
Having said all of the above, I don't think I'd like to clean a load of vaseline off my hifi, if the experiment didn't suit my expectations. But boy, it certainly will make a good seal - such a sandwich would probably constitute a constrained layer damping technique (if you feel you need to apply labels to such things!)
such a sandwich would probably constitute a constrained layer damping technique (if you feel you need to apply labels to such things!)
Thanks Chris, but I don't think I'll include it in my signature :)
....besides you're having way too much fun to care doing naughty new things with your tub of Vaseline! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Guys,
If google crawl and see too much reference to vaseline this site may end up in the sandbox as it could be construed as a sex shop!
It would be nice to know where else one can buy platters and bearings as I certainly don't intend to spend 2k on platter PSU and bearing, I personally don't think it will make such a massive night and day difference compared to a good arm, cartridge and mat on the stock platter but I have known to be wrong (once in 1967!).
Lol - if you bring your newly-fettled Techie down sometime over the Xmas hols, or in the New Year, I'll gladly educate you to the contrary! :eyebrows:
;)
It'd be good to have a sesh, anyway, and clean a batch of your records!
Marco.
Marco,
Don't know your personal circumstances but I have a wife and 2 demanding children. No way in god's earth she would let me go to your neck of the woods to listen to music even though I would love to!
Maybe I can arrange to go see my mate in Port Talbot and see you on the way back!
Whatever works for you, dude :)
Marco.
Mike_New
11-12-2010, 02:50
Each day goes by another tweak comes along for the Technics, I have plenty of grease, maybe we should try different types as it comes in 3 or 4 different thicknesses? I have some extra tacky grease as well and even some with clay powder mixed in, that is red coloured though, I think clear would be best maybe?
I think perhaps people should also bear in mind, that the fundamental act of using a substance in this way for greater sonic capability from their TTs and mats, is not restricted to the SL1200 alone. There are probably many people out there who are ignorant of these things to the detriment of the ultimate sonic quality that could be obtained from what ever combination they are using.
I guess it is because of the fertile discussions on this forum and the Sl1200 threads in particular, that we all benefit.
Mike_New
11-12-2010, 03:01
I hate to say it but I predict grease/vaseline migration into the electrics and tears. I personally don't think any semi fluid of any type should be applied to electronic items.....what will happen if a drop falls inside onto electrified workings :eek::doh::(
I will be sticking to dry options.
Good luck...maybe I am wrong but I am going to err to the side of extreme caution.
Regards D S D L
With all due respects your comments on this subject would appear to be somewhat un-informed if not totally so!!. As stated earlier by others, petroleum jelly or any substance of this nature are essentially insulators. Indeed good quality transformers are filled with oil!!!!!!!!!!! Secondly how would you envisage that the matterial is going to get onto the electrics???? by crawling there.
Wakefield Turntables
11-12-2010, 17:04
Just to slightly change subject. I've fitted Mike's composite copper platter and had a few problems fitting it, if you own a 1210 mk 2 EB then please read Mike's instructionss very very carefully as you'll need to trim a few components on the PCB. The fact that I couldn't get the platter working was purely my OWN fault :doh: and not Mike's. I've still got to get my SME V set up but thats probably tomorrow's job. Otherwise the platter looks like the dog's knackers and I cant wait to :rave: when I get the whole kit up and running!
Yep - clearances under the platter are tight and you don't want to burn out the motor drive electronics. Trimming those PCB wires is a must and Mike has described the procedure very well.
Spectral Morn
11-12-2010, 18:36
With all due respects your comments on this subject would appear to be somewhat un-informed if not totally so!!. As stated earlier by others, petroleum jelly or any substance of this nature are essentially insulators. Indeed good quality transformers are filled with oil!!!!!!!!!!! Secondly how would you envisage that the matterial is going to get onto the electrics???? by crawling there.
Okay thought about this on and off today and here is my reply....
Firstly not sure I appreciate the tone in your reply but lets leave that one there.
A precision engineered turntable is not a battery on a boat or any other crude electrical or mechanical device that you might consider covering in vaseline or other similar substance to protect it from whatever.
Now in the very many years of being involved in audio I have never read anyone, anywhere, ever suggesting such a thing (applying vaseline to a turntable platter in order to couple an additional mat)....always a first time though and here on AOS is that first time. So I hope you will understand that my comments (perhaps crudely expressed) were born out of concern.
Now my comments were based on a concern that in the case of any turntable with electronics directly below the platter (less of an issue with a turntable with off-board electronics) that any foreign substance (semi-solid or otherwise) getting inside could cause damage or at the least a mess if it gets in there.
With a solid platter not as big an issue perhaps though using the MN strengthening plate exposes the inside of the Technics turntable (in the case of Martin T's) as the platter rides high leaving a big gap (even if it didn't the foreign matter might still slide down the edge of the platter and into the insides) so it is possible for grease or vaseline to be squeezed out the sides of the mat and drop in there.
With a standard Technics platter there are two large holes and again grease or vaseline could get squeezed into the inner part of the turntable (even the bearing area perhaps ?) and even if it does not pose an electrical threat then it does present the owner with a right royal mess to try and clean up (how would you do that ?). I think I am right to express concern.
The role of a mod on AOS (and in this case perhaps originally/earlier on I have not done/expressed this very well) is to raise any issues that may cause safety issues to equipment or life and limb. To me spreading foreign matter of a semi-solid nature on a platter which might then, either spread via the rotation of the platter or by being squeezed out,qualified imho to be questioned (which again I concede I have not done that well hence this fuller post now)
There is also the matter of how much to apply how, to do it, and how much risk is there in possible migration issues either over time or by being squeezed into the decks innards when the extra mat is put on top ? Oh yes and if the vaseline is not applied 100% evenly the mat will more than likely not be sitting totally flat...something which is not ideal.
I for one don't feel this (vaeline etc) is a terribly ideal solution to bonding the mat to the plater, be it an original Technics one or anyone else's. However what individuals do at home is their own business but I still feel a note of caution is required in this matter imho and thus have raised this concern.
Having had the experience of silicon migration over an SME arm etc it is a bloody nightmare to clean up and I imagine :eek::( in the case of vaseline inside a Technics TT would be an even bigger nightmare to clean up. You apply vaseline etc to your platter top at your own risk !
I will say no more about this.....
Regards D S D L
Agree with Davros (Dalek Supreme Commander), where the idea of putting anything semi-fluid near something that is plugged into the mains came from is beyond me? My earlier post about different greases was a joke but no one caught on, avoid it I would suggest, is it really necessary anyway to tweak the last ounce of performance from a vinyl spinner, doubt it.
I sense aggro!
So keep those handbags by yer girdles, girls!! ;)
Marco.
The wife is watching the X-Factor, I have just made up a new fig.8 Sky HD box mains lead and waiting for my M&S meal for £10 to finish cooking and then I am off into my listening room to put some Chuck Stanley on (Def Jam Recordings, superb label).
Aggro is for other forums.
Hi David,
I was talking about between Davros the daftee and 'boomerang boy'! :eyebrows: ;)
And I say that with the accent on much affection!! :)
Marco.
I knew that. Hopefully your mat and shaving brush will arrive on monday!
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/mickdundee.pnghttp://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/davros.jpg
Yes indeed - I'm looking forward in particular to trying the mat! :)
Have you found the Oyaide tonearm cable yet? I think it's probably gone down the back of the sofa next to your old crusty pants and soggy skud mags!! :lol:
Marco.
chris@panteg
11-12-2010, 20:05
Well i for one am not putting ' Vaseline or KY jelly or god knows what ! near any of my Techie's , thank you very much :rolleyes:, i just got a record weight and i'm liking it :)
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/mickdundee.pnghttp://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/davros.jpg
Who's the daddy!?
:lolsign:
Marco.
Spectral Morn
11-12-2010, 23:02
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
Regards D S D L
JazzBones
12-12-2010, 12:17
Advertising on ITV is necessary but irritating. Having freshly come from this thread to my own thoughts on the platter matter my interest was suddenly taken for an ad to secure denture plate to gum, I joke you not dear folks. Apparently this wonder gel holds all day, no one knows and more interestingly one can bite into a hard apple... wow, good for the apple dunking fraternity I say:) Now what has this got to do with Tekko platters I hear you say? Well a very light application, twix main and sub platter, should achieve a suitable bonding if application of the appropriate gel is not over done, an obvious warning here! Obviously this seal can be broken at will and I assume will wash off easily? Just an idea to chew or bite on folks :rolleyes:;):scratch:
Medication is now required,
Ron the tooth fairy :mental:
Guys, I have inspected the rim of my bonded mat and platter very carefully and there is no sign of Vaseline oozing out. I was careful to stop spreading about 2cm short of the edge and that seems to have kept it all in place. Also, spreading it thinly is the key - about 0.5mm at the most. The bond is incredibly strong, as Mike suggested it would be. The final proof is in the listening and it has made a most positive contribution indeed, much to my amazement.
Mike_New
12-12-2010, 23:12
Folks
Following Martin's observations I would like to address the remarks by Darlec
Now in the very many years of being involved in audio I have never read anyone, anywhere, ever suggesting such a thing.
The early Wright brothers and others, were told by experts who had many years of ‘assumed’ experience, that aeroplanes wound never fly because they were heavier than air and did not have feathers!!! The world is driven by people who are able to think outside the square; in both the arts and sciences.
With a solid platter not as big an issue perhaps though using the MN strengthening plate exposes the inside of the Technics turntable (in the case of Martin T's) as the platter rides high leaving a big gap
Maybe if he were to obtain one of my upgrades and study it, he might actually see how much his observations are totally invalid. There is in fact no ‘big gap’ between the platter and chassis when using my Bearing Base Plate as current users will confirm including Martin.
.
With a standard Technics platter there are two large holes and again grease or vaseline could get squeezed into the inner part of the turntable.
Surely a little bit of positivistic, lateral thinking on behalf of some people! Would surely suggest that if one is concerned with gallons of destructive Vaseline pouring into the works!! then one could cover the holes in the platter with a strip of the very adhesive brown 3M packaging tape!!! QED
I cannot see where the safety issue here is when we are dealing with essentially an insulator!! I believe these concerns are all somewhat fatuous.
If it is suggested that the centrifugal force generated by the platter at 45rpm is going to eject the grease peripherally about the chassis, then maybe I wasted my time in the wrong educational institutions.
There is also the matter of how much to apply how, to do it, and how much risk is there in possible migration issues either over
Concerning how much to apply and how to do it, and the terrifying risk in doing so!!! I would have thought that this would be a matter for some applied intelligence on behalf of the majority of individuals, and which has already been demonstrated by the good people here who have followed my advice.
Spectral Morn
12-12-2010, 23:33
Mike_New typed......
"Maybe if he were to obtain one of my upgrades and study it, he might actually see how much his observations are totally invalid. There is in fact no ‘big gap’ between the platter and chassis when using my Bearing Base Plate as current users will confirm including Martin."
As we can see from the photos you do/did (new platters may not have this issue) get a large gap by using the strengthening plate as it raises the height of the platter, exposing the insides of the deck.
Before plate is fitted
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Technics%20MN%20Platter.jpg
After plate is fitted
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/PICT0073.jpg
Side view showing size of gap
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/PICT0074.jpg
I think that imho is what you would call a significant gap !
Regards D S D L
The Grand Wazoo
12-12-2010, 23:46
Mike,
Neil is not your enemy here. He's just being cautious.
Spectral Morn
12-12-2010, 23:52
Mike,
Neil is not your enemy here. He's just being cautious.
Indeed Chris
As I stated in my post above it is the duty of mods and admin on this forum to raise issues if we think there are any potential ones with advice that is given by any members of AOS. That is all I have done here....there is imho no need for the tone that Mike has started to take with me.....:(
Regards D S D L
The trick of course is to get the MN platter and bearing stiffener plate at the same time, such that the platter contour is adjusted for the stiffening plate.
See the results below
http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-vinyl-rig-picture3563-pete-mn-mods.jpg
Neil - the base plate raises the height of the entire motor/PCB/platter assembly. There is no greater gap between platter and electronics afterwards than there was before.
Secondly, Mike's platter has two closed holes for the use of bolts to lift the platter. There is no path whatsoever for Vaseline to flow from platter to the electronics underneath.
Spectral Morn
13-12-2010, 07:52
The trick of course is to get the MN platter and bearing stiffener plate at the same time, such that the platter contour is adjusted for the stiffening plate.
See the results below
http://www.head-case.org/forums/members/digipete-albums-vinyl-rig-picture3563-pete-mn-mods.jpg
Something I suggest might be the case with new platters. Thank you for posting a photo by way of confirmation.
Regards D S D L
Spectral Morn
13-12-2010, 08:04
Neil - the base plate raises the height of the entire motor/PCB/platter assembly. There is no greater gap between platter and electronics afterwards than there was before.
Secondly, Mike's platter has two closed holes for the use of bolts to lift the platter. There is no path whatsoever for Vaseline to flow from platter to the electronics underneath.
Hi Martin
I think the photos of your set up shows that unlike Pete's platter your's has a gap. (Unless Mike has offered to change your platter ?)
I do not/never did say that was the case with all of them/or the new ones. I wish people would read what I have written properly......the bits in brackets.
My concerns are/were based mainly on the original Technics platter and not so much the MN one and the likely possibility that someone who is ham fisted might end up with vaseline in the insides of their turntable.
If either Martin or MN had provided full details of this procedure + photos from the off then at least there would have been a visual guide as to how to perform this procedure safely. Not everyone is as un-ham fisted as they are.
Regards D S D L
Casual observers to this forum may look and think grease/electronics, the 2 don't gel..no pun intended.
Is that a new form of isolator underneath the Technics I see, what micron thickness are those pieces of paper, prey tell....:lolsign:
Casual observers to this forum may look and think grease/electronics, the 2 don't gel..no pun intended.
Is that a new form of isolator underneath the Technics I see, what micron thickness are those pieces of paper, prey tell....:lolsign:
Those are quite expensive audiophile pieces of paper used to adjust the table to level. :lol:
Put me down for a set please, ho.ho.ho. Just got the Oyaide mat and weight back off Marco and put it on my Lenco, did not know if the motor would be strong enough but it seems to cope ok, and it sounds better even on my mediocre system.
The Lenco motor isn't the problem, but the main bearing might be. I believe better bearings can now be purchased?
The Lenco motor isn't the problem, but the main bearing might be. I believe better bearings can now be purchased?
Not an issue really but thanks anyway as it's for sale as a Techie is due in soon to Brook Towers.
For those wanting to do this mod on a Lenco you can get better bearings for the Lenco The motor is pretty good so it would not be an issue I have no idea what it would sound like on a Lenco but guess sooner or latter others will try
Hi guys,
Just a quick update on my 'top mat' for the Mike New platter shenanigans.... I've received a Blue Horizon mat from David to try, and have to say that it's very good indeed!
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/2208/recordmat.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/recordmat.jpg/)
Up until that point I'd been using the thin rubber mat that originally came with my Techie when I bought it from KAB. This was definitely better than placing records directly onto the copper plate/mat of the platter, which of course doesn't have a label recess cut into it.
However, whilst there was an improvement with using the thin rubber mat (ensuring that records sat flat onto the platter, for starters), I could hear the detrimental sonic effect of the rubber, which tends to dull and 'thicken' the sound somewhat.
Substituting the rubber mat for the Blue Horizon has resulted in significant gains in clarity, and thus overall information retrieval. It has 'tidied up' the sound considerably, making for increased listening pleasure when playing all my favourite albums. The Blue Horizon also reduces surface noise on records like no other mat I've used before, so overall I'm very pleased with it :)
There's no doubt that the sonic presentation now, with the Blue Horizon mat fitted, is significantly better than it was when I had no 'top mat' on my MN Copper Composite Platter, which is really quite something, as the sound was stunning before!! :eek:
Therefore, I would without any hesitation recommend the Blue Horizon as an ideal choice to use as a 'top mat' with a MN Copper Composite Platter, or indeed ANY platter on ANY T/T. And so for £64.95, it joins the main players in the 'affordable' mat stakes, such as the Achromat and Herbie's, although the presentation the Blue Horizon offers is slightly different and rather unique.
The last words go to the advertising blurb:
The result is the perfect coupling between record and platter – an utterly silent foundation, ensuring every drop of musical detail within the groove is delivered with unfettered clarity.
In a nutshell, that's exactly what it does - and arguably more so than any other mat I've used so far!
For more details, see here:
http://www.bluehorizonideas.com/recordmat.html
And here:
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/ourshop/prod_1171882-Blue-Horizon-Record-Mat.html
Marco.
Some piccies of the Blue Horizon in situ:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/6646/img0139ge.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/img0139ge.jpg/)
I'm pretty sure that's me sorted now, mat-wise! :)
Making beautiful music with the SPU.....
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/797/img0142ts.jpg (http://img815.imageshack.us/i/img0142ts.jpg/)
Listening to music is rather addictive on the Techie - today's playlist:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1236/img0147pq.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/i/img0147pq.jpg/)
:eyebrows:
(It's actually the overspill from my record racks - running out of space fast!!)
Marco.
That mat looks good. Gives the Technics less of a Dj look more of a classy look.
Cheers, Colin - I think so, too! :cool:
Marco.
I think i know where im going in the New year. A Paul Hynes PSU and a Oyaide mat. I just wonder if the Oyaide would be better with a thin compliant mat on it.
The Oyaide mat and blue horizon work together on my Lenco Colin, when I join the SL1210 club next week I will be giving it a spin with the 2.
Beechwoods
17-12-2010, 18:18
Excellent pictures there Marco :)
Churz, dude!
Incidentally, David has kindly offered all AOS members 10% off the Blue Horizon mat if they use this code: MAINS10 when paying on his website!
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/ourshop/prod_1171882-Blue-Horizon-Record-Mat.html
What better Christmas present for a vinyl-buying music lover? :)
Nice one, David :cool:
Marco.
The Oyaide mat and blue horizon work together on my Lenco Colin, when I join the SL1210 club next week I will be giving it a spin with the 2.
Look forward to hearing your conclusions.
I have the same overspill problem for both LPs and CDs, Marco. I've just built yet another Benno CD tower to help take the strain. My Xmas guests don't know it yet, but they'll be playing the game of CD-alphasort with me on Boxing Day the moment one of them says they're bored.
As for my Techie, the Vaseline-bonded Achromat is a keeper. I am in seventh heaven with the sound and I still have the PH PSU to come - now working its way down from Uist by Royal Mail. The explosive dynamics I am getting from the Sheffield Lab James Newton Howard clear take my breath away. This is what my system relishes :)
CD Overspill
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/CD_overspill.jpg
That mat looks good. Gives the Technics less of a Dj look more of a classy look.
I don't know, people have different ideas as to what looks good and what doesn't
Marco's new mat reminds me of the sand paper you put at the bottom of a bird cage .
Hmm, I think the Achromat looks better (but then my deck has an overall industrial look):
http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/Achromat.jpg
That looks really good Martin
Indeed. I've always liked the 'industrial chic' of Martin's T/T. I also love the way mine looks, too.
The most important thing though is that both SOUND utterly STUNNING!! :)
:rave:
Marco.
kininigin
18-12-2010, 09:27
Churz, dude!
Incidentally, David has kindly offered all AOS members 10% off the Blue Horizon mat if they use this code: MAINS10 when paying on his website!
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/ourshop/prod_1171882-Blue-Horizon-Record-Mat.html
What better Christmas present for a vinyl-buying music lover? :)
Nice one, David :cool:
Marco.
i have bought a few small items from david in the past and every time he has sent a burn in disc or av set up disc and offered discounts with each purchase so i would like to welcome him to the forum and can reccommend his website.
quote:- Hmm, I think the Achromat looks better (but then my deck has an overall industrial look):
Yes it would go well in a borg's house! (The borg off star trek that is)
If you look at images of the new Palmer 3 turntable it looks like he uses a Blue Horizon on the platter as standard. Lovely looking deck, yours for
£3000+.
If you look at images of the new Palmer 3 turntable it looks like he uses a Blue Horizon on the platter as standard. Lovely looking deck, yours for
£3000+.
well you guys seem convinced a properly modded Technics will trounce it so I will go with that, may not get mine in time for christmas as there is 3 feet of snow in wales which is where it is at the moment!
Yes it would go well in a borg's house!
You're not the first to mention a link with the Borg. They almost anihilated the Earth, you know. Good enough for me... :)
WOStantonCS100
26-01-2011, 01:05
Indeed :)
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/OyaideTechnicsreview001.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/OyaideTechnicsreview002.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/OyaideTechnicsreview003.jpg
Photos Copyright Adventures in High Fidelity Audio 2010
Regards D S D L
WOW!! WOW!! WOW!! :stalks:
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