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View Full Version : How does the HI-FI trade work?



Cotlake
21-07-2008, 20:40
I'm looking for a bit of info particularly from dealers and also hopefully from manufacturers.

Punters only see what is in the shops, what is exhibited at shows and read about kit in magazines.

Apart from the usual big players, certainly in the UK, many maufacturers are in relative terms, small companies and I suppose, in terms of electronics, Hi-Fi is also a relatively small part of the whole industry.

Therefore, how do dealers get to identify the kit they want to stock and promote for retail? Is it done by reps? Do even the small manufacturers have reps that visit them to introduce products? If not, how do you decide what you want to sell in your shop? Are there marketing companies (such as Henley Designs) that promote products from several manufacturers that have a team of reps?

If so, how are the reps paid? Are they self employed commission only or salaried with commission and expenses? Anyone want to make a stab at what a Hi-Fi sales/product demonstrator rep can potentially earn?

Sorry for loads of questions. I just want to get an insight into how the industry works. Unless I am mistaken, I see there are no trade publications (if you know of one, please tell me) so I wonder how people find employment within the retail part of the industry other than gentlemen's word of mouth etc. I've not seen any job adverts specific to this type of role up to now.

Any exposure on how it all works will be gratefully received :)

Best wishes,

Greg

purite audio
21-07-2008, 21:43
Greg Hi, I wondered how good sound reproduction could be , I was looking around for some new loudspeakers ( I had some B&W 800d's ) , I heard some horns, there was something about them, I started to write to horn manufacturers around Europe , Guy Sargeant drw my attention to a new company, I wrote to Ralph ( Cessaro ), I had to go out to Germany to hear the speakers , at Thomas Woschnicks place .
They were and still are the best thing I have ever heard, and briefly that is how I started, subsequently I have tried to listen to as many amps and cdp's and dacs as possible, often buying sample products from all over the world , I only represent products that sound fantastic, hope this helps,Keith.

Togil
22-07-2008, 13:52
There is a magazine

www.thebaj.com

It has jobs etc

Worryingly Paul Messenger seems to be one of the editors, so much for the independence of reviewers

Neil McCauley
22-07-2008, 15:37
.......how are the reps paid? Are they self employed commission only or salaried with commission and expenses? Anyone want to make a stab at what a Hi-Fi sales/product demonstrator rep can potentially earn?


Greg


•Usually a retainer of £18k or so plus performance-related bonus

•Two types of rep: PAYE in that they represent just one maker. Freelance reps who spread the risk (and vice-versa) by representing a range of non-competing makes.

•If they are very lucky and they have a suite of makers they represent, then in the good times possibly £35k plus an expensed car. Very doubtful if they make more than that.

•Tied reps i.e PAYE employed with one maker might get share options in the event of the company being acquired



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Neil McCauley
22-07-2008, 15:42
I only represent products that sound fantastic, hope this helps,Keith.

Wow, that quite a revelation! Mind you, not yet found any retailers who claim they only represent products that sound shite. Looking forward to that fine day though because quite clearly more than a few do!

Meanwhile ....... sound fantastic to whom? The retailer, or the customer - or both?

Who's preference takes precedence in your place Mr Cooper?


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Neil McCauley
22-07-2008, 15:53
There is a magazine

www.thebaj.com

It has jobs etc

Worryingly Paul Messenger seems to be one of the editors, so much for the independence of reviewers

Your statement seems counter-intuitive to me. I can't see how his independence is compromised. Have I missed something here?

Please note (having been one for HFN) that reviewers get paid £115 per 1000 published words. Assume 1 full day listening plus 4 hours to write it up, then for an average 1500 piece, the reviewer receives £172.50 for 12 hours work i.e £14.37 per hour. And before you say they are getting paid for listening to music, which of course is true, they still have families to feed and mortgages to pay. It's not a tough life, but it isn't a highly lucrative one either. Just so's ya know!


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snapper
22-07-2008, 16:37
Please note (having been one for HFN) that reviewers get paid £115 per 1000 published words.



Which is,I believe,well below The NUJs 'Rate For The Job'.

Neil McCauley
22-07-2008, 17:02
Which is,I believe,well below The NUJs 'Rate For The Job'.
Well, at the time, I was told it was NUJ rate. Things might have changed though.


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purite audio
22-07-2008, 18:03
Wow, that quite a revelation! Mind you, not yet found any retailers who claim they only represent products that sound shite. Looking forward to that fine day though because quite clearly more than a few do!

Meanwhile ....... sound fantastic to whom? The retailer, or the customer - or both?

Who's preference takes precedence in your place Mr Cooper?


---//---

I only suggest that the customer gather together some 'possibles' and compare them at home.

Mike Reed
22-07-2008, 19:36
Please note (having been a reviewer for HFN)


Interesting ! I wonder when that was. Having read HFN &RR from the early sixties to the early eighties, I always considered this mag. to be the half-way house between Gramophone and its reviews (where, if it played music competently, it was recommended) and The Flat Earth, HiFi Answers and their ilk, which eulogised most things.

HFN usually had lab. tests and specs. whereas the others seldom did. Only Ken Kessler, who was often to be seen in the hifi shop in Burgate, Canterbury in the seventies, over-egged the pudding a bit with his 'over the top' American prose, mainly with valve amps. Otherwise HFN&RR was considered the 'conservative' hifi mag, with record reviews a bonus.

Wonder if things have changed. Must pop into a W.H.Smith sometime.

Iain Sinclair
22-07-2008, 19:42
Interesting ! I wonder when that was. Having read HFN &RR from the early sixties to the early eighties, I always considered this mag. to be the half-way house between Gramophone and its reviews (where, if it played music competently, it was recommended) and The Flat Earth, HiFi Answers and their ilk, which eulogised most things.

HFN usually had lab. tests and specs. whereas the others seldom did. Only Ken Kessler, who was often to be seen in the hifi shop in Burgate, Canterbury in the seventies, over-egged the pudding a bit with his 'over the top' American prose, mainly with valve amps. Otherwise HFN&RR was considered the 'conservative' hifi mag, with record reviews a bonus.

Wonder if things have changed. Must pop into a W.H.Smith sometime.

It's not very good now. The rot set in some years back when they pruned back the classical record reviews to a paragraph per record, and only used a couple of reviewers.

Cotlake
23-07-2008, 20:09
Thanks for your responses guys, particularly Howard and Togil. All very helpful. Any further advise will be accepted gratefully.

Best wishes,

Greg

Neil McCauley
12-03-2011, 03:51
I'm looking for a bit of info particularly from dealers and also hopefully from manufacturers. Any exposure on how it all works will be gratefully received :)

Best wishes,

Greg

Okay. What would you like to know? If I can answer from experience rather than supposition, then I will. Regards. Howard

shane
12-03-2011, 10:44
I think you may be a couple of years too late, Howard. Greg hasn't posted here for a long time.

The Grand Wazoo
12-03-2011, 10:45
I think you may be a couple of years too late, Howard. Greg hasn't posted here for a long time.

....indeed, but I think we'd still be interested in you answer to his questions Howard!

Marco
12-03-2011, 10:49
Yup, but it'd still be interesting for Howard to tackle the subject, hypothetically :)

Marco.

Marco
12-03-2011, 10:50
Chris and I are as one! :eyebrows:

Marco.

hifi_dave
12-03-2011, 12:29
I'd also like to know 'how it all works'..:scratch:

Spectral Morn
12-03-2011, 12:32
:lol::lol::lol:

I could tell you all.....but I would have to exterminate you all afterwards.

Regards D S D L

Techno Commander
12-03-2011, 12:39
It wouls appear that Linn would like people to "cold sell" high end systems on comission only.

Linky. (http://www.careerjet.com/hstjob/06000f4c.html)

Spectral Morn
12-03-2011, 12:42
It wouls appear that Linn would like people to "cold sell" high end systems on comission only.

Linky. (http://www.careerjet.com/hstjob/06000f4c.html)

That sadly imho is not the way to do it :doh:


Regards D S D l

Neil McCauley
12-03-2011, 18:25
So .......... actually the concensus seems to be that a few of you want to know how (a) Linn did it and (b) got away with it. Fair enough. I'll give me a good insight. But if you are looking for evidence of financial back-handers, I never saw any.

What I and many others experienced though was far far cleverer, insidious, effective and enduring than anything that gribby used fivers might have achieved. So watch this space folks!

The Vinyl Adventure
12-03-2011, 18:50
It wouls appear that Linn would like people to "cold sell" high end systems on comission only.

Linky. (http://www.careerjet.com/hstjob/06000f4c.html)

thats not Linn as we know it ... thats Linn audio ... some american company that make massive speakers ...
you know of them dont you Neil?
i thought they looked dodgy ... but apparently they are legit!

and to be fair ... there is not a lot wrong with cold selling kit with money back options options ... it seems to me to be the way many smaller hifi manufactueres that cant or dont want to get into dealers work ...
i certainly wouldnt accuse mark grant of anything underhanded ... he selll stuff from his web site with money back options for people who dont like the cables ...

Spectral Morn
12-03-2011, 20:21
thats not Linn as we know it ... thats Linn audio ... some american company that make massive speakers ...
you know of them dont you Neil?
i thought they looked dodgy ... but apparently they are legit!

and to be fair ... there is not a lot wrong with cold selling kit with money back options options ... it seems to me to be the way many smaller hifi manufactueres that cant or dont want to get into dealers work ...
i certainly wouldnt accuse mark grant of anything underhanded ... he selll stuff from his web site with money back options for people who dont like the cables ...

:doh:your right Hamish.....I was in work and it didn't dawn on me as I only looked briefly at the link and thought it was Linn. Yes I do know of Linn Audio who produce speakers in America. I only know of them though through the adds they place in Stereophile.

They mainly sell direct but perhaps have one or two dealers.




Regards D S D L

hifi_dave
12-03-2011, 20:55
You wouldn't get a pair of their speakers in a jiffy bag..:stalks:

They sell them by the metre.