Reversed Polarity

[Ashmore]

If I were to plug the positive leads from my amp into the negative terminals on my speakers and vice versa, what might I expect to happen?

I'm assuming things would continue to work, that phase would be maintained and I would notice no difference to the sound.

Or have I missed some crucial issue that could result in improvement to or deterioration in sound quality, or an instant massive fire and many deaths?

What do those with informed views think?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Surly the speakers would go back when they are suposed to go forward ... I can't imagine that's a good thing for the sound ...
As far as I know when a sound wave hits a microphones diaphragm in one direction (pushing it inward) the charge created goes down the cable and moves the speakers diaphram in the same direction if they were in a line (outward) so wiring them the speaker the wrong way would be moving the speaker the wrong way (inward) sending the sound backward.

I hope I haven't got that wrong, because that how I have understood it since I was about 10 years old - we had a lesson at school - we made an electric motor first to understand the rules of magents and electricity..

[goraman]

If you do that while playing the Monnlight sonota backwards,you will end the worlds suffering for the last 10,000 years.oh ,what a night that will be,when nighten gails shack off there dusty tails to asurt his magisty.







Reversing polerity makes even less sense.why would you?

[Ashmore]

That's my understanding too Hamish, but does it matter? Will it damage my equipment (I'm thinking not)? And - this is the nub of my question - could it effect a change in sound that I might think an improvement?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

It won't damage anything, but I can't see it sounding better ... The speakers are going the wrong way ...

[Dave Hewitt]

I think it depends how many stages thre are in the amp etc to maintain absolute phase,could be better sound.My system sounds better to me with speaker polarity reversed.
Dave.

[Welder]

What it will do is effect the phasing of your speakers.
Some speakers are designed with a polarity reversal but it’s usually done at the crossover.
In phase arrangement should sound a bit louder as a very rough guide.

[lurcher]

In phase arrangement should sound a bit louder as a very rough guide.

I don't want to be argumental, but why would it? (given you normally seem to be a objective sort of chap).

[Welder]

That’s a reasonable question Nick
If the driver combination is in phase then the sound pressure waves from each driver should ideally reach you at approximately the same time in a correctly designed setup.
If they are out of phase then it is possible that the phase lag is audible because the sound pressure waves arrive at differing times, subjectively speaking of course ;)
Of course this depends on the number of drivers and the crossover arrangement.

I did say “rough guide”.

[YNWaN]

The absolute phase will be reversed but no harm will come to your speakers or to your amplification. The jury is still out as to whether one can even hear absolute phase and sometimes amps have a switch to reverse it. To make matters worse, not all recordings are made in the same phase (hence amps occasionally having the option of switching it) and if the recording is multi-tracked, there is no guarantee that all parts were recorded in the same phase.

Your speakers shouldn't sound louder if all you are doing is altering the absolute phase (rather than moving it from in phase to out of phase - which will sound quite different).

[lurcher]

That’s a reasonable question Nick
If the driver combination is in phase then the sound pressure waves from each driver should ideally reach you at approximately the same time in a correctly designed setup.
If they are out of phase then it is possible that the phase lag is audible because the sound pressure waves arrive at differing times, subjectively speaking of course ;)
Of course this depends on the number of drivers and the crossover arrangement.

I did say “rough guide”.

Ok, I thought that was what you meant. but in this case I think he was talking about swapping every connection to the speaker over (at least I think he was).

[hifi_dave]

The OP was about "absolute phase", where the pos and neg connections on the speaker (or amp) are reversed. This means that the positive half of a waveform will move the speaker cone backwards instead of forwards.

This isn't always the case as some amps reverse the phase anyway and should (perhaps) be used with the pos and neg terminals swopped over for normal listening.

The effects of reversing the absolute phase are very subtle indeed and often not noticeable. A further complication arises with some recordings that have some microphones in phase and some out. In this situation, reversing the phase will, at best, slightly alter the sound but with no definite preference.

Out of phase where the pos and neg of just one speaker is reversed, is very apparent and quite unpleasant to some ears.

[Ashmore]

Thank you all for your thoughts on this.

I have conducted an experiment (in so far as drinking wine and listening to Buddy Guy can be classed as experimental) with the speakers in reverse, so to speak.

I wish I could report a revelation, but the truth is I couldn't perceive the slightest bloody difference.

That said it was sort of interesting to break the rules - I've always been so respectful of the 'proper instructions' - you know, make sure everything is set up just so...

[SteveW]

The OP was about "absolute phase", where the pos and neg connections on the speaker (or amp) are reversed. This means that the positive half of a waveform will move the speaker cone backwards instead of forwards.

This isn't always the case as some amps reverse the phase anyway and should (perhaps) be used with the pos and neg terminals swopped over for normal listening.

The effects of reversing the absolute phase are very subtle indeed and often not noticeable. A further complication arises with some recordings that have some microphones in phase and some out. In this situation, reversing the phase will, at best, slightly alter the sound but with no definite preference.

Out of phase where the pos and neg of just one speaker is reversed, is very apparent and quite unpleasant to some ears.

I've never understood why I had to reverse the polarity on my Linn Kairn. It still sounded shit. Sorry...veiled.

[swampy]

My speakers sound better with absolute phase reversed. Just try it and listen. I seem to get better bass response.

I am sure there is all sorts of phase shifts of different degrees across the audio band as the signal passes through pre-amp / power amp / caps / cross-over etc. In an ideal world each stage tube / cap etc would shift 180 degrees throughout the entire frequency spectrum but I very much doubt that is always the case and phase distortions are going on.

[ourdogmax]

You're dead right David.
Phase shifts are the top and bottom of the problem.

And after its left the system there are room phase cancellation effects to consider, also there's the problem or whether or not our ears and brains are in phase or not.

I'm not sure mine are. :scratch:

[lurcher]

I think he is saying the alternative, there are so many phase shits in the chain to say what "absolute polarity" means.

It is worth pointing out that air is non linear, it can only be rarified by one atmosphere but compressed as much as needed, so there is potentially a difference between a cone moving forward and moving backwards.

[Marco]

I think he is saying the alternative, there are so many phase shits in the chain...


Lol.... Is that another new one, Nick? I wonder what would cure that? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Dave Hewitt]

I know some two phased shits.
Dave.

[Marco]

:lolsign:

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

I think it depends how many stages thre are in the amp etc to maintain absolute phase,could be better sound.My system sounds better to me with speaker polarity reversed.
Dave.

I tend to agree with dave's sentiments on this one!:)
but as others have said room inviroments can play a big part in choosing which way round is best suited to a paticular situation.
Anthony,TD...

[Marco]

I tell you, if it weren't for those pesky phase shits..........

Marco.

[lurcher]

(No way out of this one, better try and bluff it out)

Yes, its a technical phrase, far to complex to explain here, but can be cured by the application of "Senna iPod" (tm)

[Jonboy]

I replaced the tweeters in my Kefs a few years ago but when i put them back together they sounded rubbish, i told myself they were out of phase or something so i stripped them down and checked the wiring and checked again, i spent hours on them but still to no avial so i put them away and forgot them for a while, got them out again this year when my Mike the valve was on a weekly visit, told him the story so we had the things apart again, crossovers out and back in we then started pulling wires of the crossovers and swapping them around, we then got noise from the tweeters and not from the mids, hmmm we think so a quick check on line to find a circuit diagram for the crossovers and thats when we sussed it, the tweeters were running in phase instead of out of phase like they were supposed to be.
So out with the speakers units once more, what i had done when i changed them in to start with was to solder the wires back on the tags in phase ie red to red and black to black when they were ment to be crossed at this point, hey presto once changed they now sound prefect much to my pleasure and everyone elses whos heard them now.

[Reid Malenfant]

I replaced the tweeters in my Kefs a few years ago but when i put them back together they sounded rubbish, i told myself they were out of phase or something so i stripped them down and checked the wiring and checked again, i spent hours on them but still to no avial so i put them away and forgot them for a while, got them out again this year when my Mike the valve was on a weekly visit, told him the story so we had the things apart again, crossovers out and back in we then started pulling wires of the crossovers and swapping them around, we then got noise from the tweeters and not from the mids, hmmm we think so a quick check on line to find a circuit diagram for the crossovers and thats when we sussed it, the tweeters were running in phase instead of out of phase like they were supposed to be.
So out with the speakers units once more, what i had done when i changed them in to start with was to solder the wires back on the tags in phase ie red to red and black to black when they were ment to be crossed at this point, hey presto once changed they now sound prefect much to my pleasure and everyone elses whos heard them now.
Yet until you'd got the tweeters out of phase as they should be they'd have still sounded rubbish even if you'd have reversed the connections to each enclosure :eyebrows:

No doubt your speakers are fitted with 12 or 18Db/octave crossovers from midrange to the tweeters, in the case of 12Db/octave they definately need to be reversed to the tweeter. Possibly also with 18Db/octave depending on how far the midrange voicecoil is further back from the tweeters voicecoil at the listening position. Time alignment comes into play with crossovers as well...