Valve amp projects

[Welder]

A friend of mine died recently and his wife asked me to help sort out his collection of Hi Fi bits she found in the attic.
Anyway we found what seem to be a couple of incomplete projects and I wondered if either of these is worth salvaging.
Steve was a competent guy when it came to electronics so I’m assuming this was “under development” and what is there is fundamentally sound, just not finished.

This would seem to be the Affordable Valve Co EL34 triode silver integrated. The valves all seem to be okay, but all the guts are out of the chassis, there is no faceplate, or control knobs, or RCA connectors.
None of the above is a problem; I can make or buy the missing bits.
What I don’t know is whether such a project is worth the time and expense. I haven’t heard any of the Affordable Valve Co kit and I cant find out much about them apart from the unintelligible blurb on their ebay site.
Anyone know anything about this amp?
What do you think its worth in the state described?

The other pile of bits that looks as if it was a World Audio Design Integrated Amp kit.
Unfortunately the circuit board and instructions are missing and there are no valves for it. What he has done is laid out plans to hardwire. His drawings are all there and all the components (bar the valves) but once again, an incomplete case.
I have no idea which model this is but the date on the box is 07/2006.
WAD site is hopeless now as it only shows the “new” range so I wondered if anyone had any info on WAD kits around this date.
Better still, anyone had experience of WAD integrated from this era?
Is this worth salvaging?

The bottom line is this; I want to give a fair price for one or both.
I don’t want to go to the trouble and expense of putting them back together if they weren’t all that to start with so “just because they’re valve and therefore must be worth saving” isn’t of any interest to me.



(aff, sry Marco, stuck this in the wrong section. Feel free to move it)

[Clive]

John,

Affordable Valve stuff was not kit so it's hard to know what a modified amp like this could be worth...if you can work what's been done to it.

Re the WAD amp, it may have been hard wired from the outset, eg KiT 34 or 6550. A pic would help greatly.

[John]

The Affordable Valve gear used to be sold on ebay (think still is; some of the worst advertising I seen ) I never heard any of their stuff
http://www.affordablevalvecompany.com/products.htm
The WAD gear would be well worth the effort
As Clive said pictures would help

[spendorman]

The Affordable Valve gear used to be sold on ebay (think still is; some of the worst advertising I seen ) I never heard any of their stuff
http://www.affordablevalvecompany.com/products.htm
The WAD gear would be well worth the effort
As Clive said pictures would help

A few years ago I bought their basic EL34 amp for a fussy friend, was very well made, sounded very good. Trouble is that the price for a similar amp from them has increased massively.

[Welder]

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, pics would help but unfortunately I don’t own a camera not does my mates wife and popping up to Hertfordshire to take a few pics under the circumstances isn’t really on :(
However, I’ve got his drawings here and now I have some idea of what I might be looking at (thanks Clive) the WAD looks like its KIT 6550 with some upgrade plans.
(Now I know what the 6550C and 5U4G Svetlana valves were for)
It looks like he planned an all ally enclosure and got rid of those ghastly tag boards along with a few cap changes.
As far as I can tell from my list all the components are there; just didn’t recognize what they were for at the time :scratch:
I’ve got plenty of ally sheet, think I’ve got some ¼ sheet for the faceplate somewhere as well so I can machine up a case.
I don’t need loads of outputs and I can use an internal jumper and get rid of the selector pot and exactly match input impedances while I’m at it.
Looks like a goer :)
So, I’ve seen Tony Moore’s post here but I still have no idea as to what one of these can sound like.
If it’s the usual floppy bass and silky undefined treble common to many low powered valve amps I’m not certain it’s worth the bother; been there :doh:
It will need to drive my Volts. They have a nice steady impedance range (it’s the impedance shift that causes problems in my experience rather than low or high) and are reasonably efficient.

Any thoughts on the performance of this kit?
What’s it worth?

As for the Affordable Valve Co amp, need a lot more info than I can get from their ebay site before I sort this pile of bits out.

[spendorman]

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, pics would help but unfortunately I don’t own a camera not does my mates wife and popping up to Hertfordshire to take a few pics under the circumstances isn’t really on :(
However, I’ve got his drawings here and now I have some idea of what I might be looking at (thanks Clive) the WAD looks like its KIT 6550 with some upgrade plans.
(Now I know what the 6550C and 5U4G Svetlana valves were for)
It looks like he planned an all ally enclosure and got rid of those ghastly tag boards along with a few cap changes.
As far as I can tell from my list all the components are there; just didn’t recognize what they were for at the time :scratch:
I’ve got plenty of ally sheet, think I’ve got some ¼ sheet for the faceplate somewhere as well so I can machine up a case.
I don’t need loads of outputs and I can use an internal jumper and get rid of the selector pot and exactly match input impedances while I’m at it.
Looks like a goer :)
So, I’ve seen Tony Moore’s post here but I still have no idea as to what one of these can sound like.
If it’s the usual floppy bass and silky undefined treble common to many low powered valve amps I’m not certain it’s worth the bother; been there :doh:
It will need to drive my Volts. They have a nice steady impedance range (it’s the impedance shift that causes problems in my experience rather than low or high) and are reasonably efficient.

Any thoughts on the performance of this kit?
What’s it worth?

As for the Affordable Valve Co amp, need a lot more info than I can get from their ebay site before I sort this pile of bits out.

Don't be put off by Affordable's terrible site, they do aim to please and offered a money back guarantee if amp is not to one's liking.

There was no way the one I got was going back and it has performed faultlessly, probably about four years now.

[Ali Tait]

Nick is the man to ask about the 6550 as he had one.I heard it a few times but it was many years ago,but I remember it being a good PP amp with plenty of drive and a ballsy sound. The WAD stuff was all very good indeed and it would be well worth getting it running imo. Tweaks should still be available in the FAQ's on the WD site.

[Ali Tait]

Nick should be able to supply the circuit diagram too,or if not,Richard on WD will help you out.

[lurcher]

This is what I have.

http://www.lurcher.org/nick/KiT6550crt.pdf

[DSJR]

WD stuff isn't sloppy old valvey tat, as if it was, the gear would have been all but still-born and Mr Cawley wouldn't have felt inclined to buy the business and forum.. I'm sure both amps are well worth the effort TBH.

[Welder]

Thank you for the circuit diagrams Nick :)

I think I’m going for the Affordable Valve Co EL34 Triode :mental:

I’ve got a WAD HD83 headphone amp. Fortunately I bought the kit when it was still £200 instead of the £400+ it is now. The kit was easy to build and gave a reasonable performance as standard but even then I thought it was rather expensive for what it was. It took a few tweaks to turn it from a decent amp into a good amp; some really basic flaws I assume brought about by needing an easy production kit rather than an outright performance kit, earthing, unshielded power cable running alongside the board, signal leads too close to transformers, inadequate screening within the enclosure etc. The WAD6550 seems to have similar problems :(

DSJR. I rather think Dave Cawleys interest in WAD has more to do with making money than making music ;)

Alex. I waded through what info I could find on the AFC site :doh: and within all the static they make some interesting points.

I don’t have a lot of money so the cost of getting one of these amps up and running is a major factor.
The guts of the AVC EL34 are all there and ready built. The chassis is complete so all I need is to make a faceplate, fit one set of good quality RCA connectors and bypass the selection control stuff to get it working.
If it doesn’t match the performance of the Exposure then I won’t have spent a lot of time and money on it :eyebrows:

I must confess, I’m not a great valve fan. They can do some things very well but a lot depends on what you partner them with and imo the type of music you listen too. The last valve amp I listened to in my system was the Unison Research Preludio and to my ears the Exposure tore it to shreds. It did sound very sweet but totally lacking in grunt and I like a bit of grunt. :eek: :lol:

[roob]

The owner of the AVC can be problematic see here
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-41223.html
There are plenty of other similar tales on various forums

[spendorman]

The owner of the AVC can be problematic see here
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-41223.html
There are plenty of other similar tales on various forums

Well all I can talk of is my experience which was very good. I bought the amp new on e bay, was delivered promptly and was packed very well. There was no visible damage to the amp, however one could see through the cover that an EL34 had come out of it's socket.

How this happened is a mystery. I would have removed the cover and refitted the valve, but there was a seal on the cover and that would invalidate the guarantee if removed. I contacted Lim, told him of the problem and asked if I should refit the valve. Lim insisted that the amp be collected and a replacement sent. I thought this a bit excessive, but it was his choice.

Very quickly and efficiently, the amp was collected and a new one delivered. No charge to me of course.

I contacted Lim to thank him and had a good chat. We did not agree on what is a good loudspeaker for home use. Of all my speakers, he only liked the Ditton 44's.

As mentioned, amp has been perfect (for my friend) and compares with my Radford STA25 III very favourably.

[Welder]

Thanks for the link Andy :)
Thanks for your comments as well Alex :)

Most of what I’ve read has been negative comments about the company owner, not an awful lot about the amp.
If we all believed forum comments about company owners and bought accordingly we wouldn’t have many Beresford owners here would we (?) :eyebrows:
Not greatly impressed by Hi Fi press reviews either. Some reviewers seem to know very little about the technical aspects of the equipment they review and I’ve been truly horrified by some of the reviews of Dacs and computer based audio. A lot of these guys don’t even know how to plug the stuff in.
One must expect a certain degree of hostility from the old school with regard to products from China and the Far East and of course view the ramblings of the Hi Fi sales people with a certain degree of skepticism until one establishes who is scratching whose back.

I don’t expect to have any dealings with AV Co given I’ll be doing any work necessary, so personalities wont be a problem.
From what I can gather from AV Co terrible site and other information on the net they have a lot right within the design; big transformers, solid construction and relatively uncomplicated topology.

WAD kit on the other hand may have a few vocal fan boys but I’ve built one and seen a couple of others and they ain’t so special imo.

Anyway, I’m not expecting a lot so if it does what it says on the box I’ll have a cheap reasonably powerful valve amp and maybe a project for future upgrades.

[DSJR]

Thanks for replies John. I noticed too how the prices of WD had significantly risen and, fortunately for me, I was able to buy my Croft for a very fair price. I appreciate the new owner will want to get something back for rescuing the brand and forum and hope he doesn't hoik the prices up further ;)

I think the only danger with some Chinese audio exports is that in the past, some of the stuff was barely OK with European voltages, let alone the generally higher UK ones. Having seen some gear coming from there now which is exquisitely made and seemingly soundly designed as well, there won't be a problem.

[Ali Tait]

Thanks for the link Andy :)
Thanks for your comments as well Alex :)

Most of what I’ve read has been negative comments about the company owner, not an awful lot about the amp.
If we all believed forum comments about company owners and bought accordingly we wouldn’t have many Beresford owners here would we (?) :eyebrows:
Not greatly impressed by Hi Fi press reviews either. Some reviewers seem to know very little about the technical aspects of the equipment they review and I’ve been truly horrified by some of the reviews of Dacs and computer based audio. A lot of these guys don’t even know how to plug the stuff in.
One must expect a certain degree of hostility from the old school with regard to products from China and the Far East and of course view the ramblings of the Hi Fi sales people with a certain degree of skepticism until one establishes who is scratching whose back.

I don’t expect to have any dealings with AV Co given I’ll be doing any work necessary, so personalities wont be a problem.
From what I can gather from AV Co terrible site and other information on the net they have a lot right within the design; big transformers, solid construction and relatively uncomplicated topology.

WAD kit on the other hand may have a few vocal fan boys but I’ve built one and seen a couple of others and they ain’t so special imo.

Anyway, I’m not expecting a lot so if it does what it says on the box I’ll have a cheap reasonably powerful valve amp and maybe a project for future upgrades.

Well all I can say is I've had several WAD amps and all have been excellent,and I've heard nothing commercial at anywhere near the price that compared.

[Welder]

Hi Ali
Okay, I’ve been a bit harsh regarding WAD amps. After all, I’ve got one and have no intention of changing it. However, it took a bit of work to iron out problems that really shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
But, at £200 for the kit it was a reasonable buy but bear in mind that’s a kit, not a working and tested unit.
At £400+ for a kit which has basically identical guts with an earthing problem sorted that shouldn’t have been there in the first place and a prettier case I think it’s somewhat overpriced.
I realize some compromises have to be made when designing a production kit but some of the problems with all the WAD kits I’ve seen are pretty easy to sort out but would no doubt cut into the profit margin which is considerable given the basic design and component level.
So yes, they’re decent sounding products and the instructions and build process are well laid out and easy to follow.
It’s whether they’re good value for money I question.
If you want an example of a product that I think is good value for money and performs as well as the WAD HD83 as supplied check out the Matrix headphone amp.......plus you dont have to build it.

[Ali Tait]

Yes I don't disagree regarding the 83, I had one myself. I found it very good after some fettling and putting in some boutique components-it sounded as good as anything I've heard then. I'd say it's the same with the amps, they are very good as standard but can be made much better with better components and some tweaks. I relise this may annoy some folk,but IMO these kits were aimed at the kind of people who would do this anyway. Have you heard a KEL84? A stunningly good amp for the money IMO. I do agree they are looking expensive against the likes of diyhifisupply and bottlehead now.

[John]

I do agree they are looking expensive against the likes of diyhifisupply and bottlehead now.

:(

[Ali Tait]

Plus they don't do any SE amps!

[Welder]

I got The Affordable Valve Company Larger 40 Watt offering with EL34’s up and running albeit with a temporary solid wood front plate.
It’s a nice enough amp and probably good value but it’s brought about the end of the road for me and valves.
Yep, the treble is sweet. Its great with voices, easy to listen to, doesn’t make too much of a hash of complex passages but its just piss boring to listen to tbh.
Maybe it’s just not what I’m used to but I think there is something more to it.
It is more analogue sounding if I understand what people mean by that correctly, but it just reminds me of all the stuff I didn’t like about analogue and none of the stuff I did.
It lacks pace and grunt compared to the Exposure and the Quantum
It may sound better with a turntable feeding it and some speakers prone to a bit of boom rather than the very tight bass the Volts produce because it really doesn’t know what to do with the Volts.
A bit disappointed really :(

[Ali Tait]

Sounds like the Bantams Golds will suit you down to the ground then!