Dynaudio activation project ... Constant support required :)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Ok, so this is what I have been up to so far

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/3728695b.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/efecce45.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/8af7db91.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/046c9225.jpg

Before and after

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/12eb97ff.jpg


I have a question though ...with the passive xovers in the black socket on the back of the speaker appears to be connected to the positive on the tweeter and the negative on the woofer...

Am I goin crazy or being an idiot or what?

[Reid Malenfant]

I have a question though ...with the passive xovers in the black socket on the back of the speaker appears to be connected to the positive on the tweeter and the negative on the woofer...

Am I goin crazy or being an idiot or what?
That'll more than likely be a 12Db/octave crossover of the passive variety, in which case you need to reverse the connections to the tweeter to get things in phase ;) 18Db/octave can also do the same thing, it depends to a certain extent on time alignment :)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

So when I wired the speaker terminals directly to the drivers I did the right thing connecting positive to positive on both drivers?

[Reid Malenfant]

This depends on the active crossover used :) If it happens to be 24Db/octave Linkwitz Riley then yes, you'd want positive to positive on all drivers. If the crossover happens to be 12Db/octave then wire them back to front on one driver only. The tweeter is the obvious choice so as to keep bass/mid frequencies in phase (rather than reversed) & also the tweeter...

You need to know what the active crossover does in reality ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

This will be te crossover

http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/ac22bdat.pdf

Cheers for the help buddy :)

[aquapiranha]

Looking good Hamish! I am still trying to engineer a visit btw..

Steve

[Reid Malenfant]

Wire the bass & tweeter positive to positive, you have a 24Db/octave crossover there ;) I'd suggest you even think about lowering the xover frequency from whatever the standard is on your speakers to about 1.5Khz :)

Because of the really steep cutoff of a 24Db/octave filter there should be no problems feeding 1.5Khz to the tweeter :) I did the same thing with an MTM arangement using Audax bass mids & a Focal Kevlar tweeter, it sounded glorious & you just wouldn't believe the volume level they'd produce :eek:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Cheers steve! ... I'm getting into this diy hifi stuff!

Oh and Paul ... If your still out there ... I'm doing it with all the wrong tools! I used a hammer and screwdriver to prise the glued down original back panels!!

Good news! I'm doing this now so we can get it up and running whilst you are here if you do manage to get down!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Wire the bass & tweeter positive to positive, you have a 24Db/octave crossover there ;) I'd suggest you even think about lowering the xover frequency from whatever the standard is on your speakers to about 1.5Khz :)

Because of the really steep cutoff of a 24Db/octave filter there should be no problems feeding 1.5Khz to the tweeter :) I did the same thing with an MTM arangement using Audax bass mids & a Focal Kevlar tweeter, it sounded glorious & you just wouldn't believe the volume level they'd produce :eek:

Cheers mark! Good stuff, I'm on the right track then!
The dyns xover point is 1.6khz ... I was going to just experiment a bit I think...

[Reid Malenfant]

Cheers mark! Good stuff, I'm on the right track then!
The dyns xover point is 1.6khz ... I was going to just experiment a bit I think...
If you are 100% sure about the crossover frequency on the standard passive xover at 12Db/octave i'd be tempted to lower it again going active ;)

If it's 1.6Khz as you say then i'd be interested to see what it sounds like with a 24Db/octave at 1Khz :eyebrows: You'll be protecting the tweeter more (because of the rapid rolloff) & allow the tweeter to do more of the more intricate work that the bass/mid will mess up due to breakup modes ;)

I think the world might be your oyster :eyebrows:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Interesting... Well, I shall tinker and see how I get on... I'll post my findings here ...
This was why I did this... Give me scope for tinkering... I'm not expecting it to be perfect, What with the crossover not being designed specifically for the drivers in the cab they are in, but I'm hoping the lack of crossover between amps and drivers will provide an advantage that will out weigh the negatives I that makes sence?

Either way, it's a lot of fun finding out, and if it doesn't work then I have just externalised my crossovers ... Which even if it isn't an advantage, it can't do any harm I guess?

[colinB]

Good for you man. Doing your own speakers. Very cool.
Its reminded me to get of my fat arse and get this DIY technics p.s.u of the ground.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

The next step is to actually build/have built my own speakers to go with this kit I'm getting off steve ... This diy tinkering is a lot of fun now I have my main system sorted... I can afford to make mistakes and get stuff wrong ... Part of a learning curve without damaging my music enjoyment...
Do it buddy... The psu for the techie upgrade was one of the most rewarding so far for me! Will you be posting your efforts here?

[colinB]

I think ill be proud as punch when i do it so yes i will, probably new year.

[Macca]

[QUOTE=Reid Malenfant;163091] I did the same thing with an MTM arangement QUOTE]

'MTM' ? - Mary Tyler Moore? otherwise I'm out of ideas - please explain?

[Reid Malenfant]

'MTM' ? - Mary Tyler Moore? otherwise I'm out of ideas - please explain?
:lol: It's a speaker arrangement. It stands for Mid, treble, Mid or if you like it fancy the D' Appolito arrangement ;)

Scroll down to the bottom of this post (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=140792&postcount=1) :)

[Macca]

:lol: It's a speaker arrangement. It stands for Mid, treble, Mid or if you like it fancy the D' Appolito arrangement ;)

Scroll down to the bottom of this post (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=140792&postcount=1) :)

Ah got you now it same as D'Appolito....cheers, as you were:)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Done

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/fef9f28e.jpg

Steve im ready to put your pins in my holes :)

[aquapiranha]

Done

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/fef9f28e.jpg

Steve im ready to put your pins in my holes :)

lol... oooh errr missus.

[John]

Looking forward to see how this works out Hamish

[The Vinyl Adventure]

lol... oooh errr missus.

I was gonna go with 'im ready for you to plug my holes steve' but I thought thy was a step too far :)


Looking forward to see how this works out Hamish

Cheers, yes, me too, as I said before I am not 100% confident, but I have enjoyed the process so provided I don't break anything im very happy just having a go!

[Ali Tait]

Hi Hamish, I have Steve's OB's that were used with that crossover. I've got a Behringer DCX2496 coming,should be here today,so will be fiddling tonight. Mind you,the speakers don't sound bad running full range.

[aquapiranha]

Hi Hamish, I have Steve's OB's that were used with that crossover. I've got a Behringer DCX2496 coming,should be here today,so will be fiddling tonight. Mind you,the speakers don't sound bad running full range.

Good news Ali, let us know how you get on.

And you Hamish

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Update, sorry about the photos (call my self I photographer... I dunno...)

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/570a94c3.jpg

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/5764a06d.jpg

Activated dyns next to my pride and joy active Adams

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/b0d3e9a1.jpg

Got everythin connected, it's all working ...

Set up -

Linn majik dsi (preamp out) - rane xover - steve made 4 channel power amp - qed original bi-wire cable - dynaudio audience 42's with the crossovers removed as in previous photies.

I have set the rane to 1500hz to start with, the master levels to 8, the bass levels to 10 and the trebble levels to 8 ... This seems to give the best results so far although I will continue to play about

The sound is pretty good ... The main problem being I am used to the adams which are in a different league :doh:

Compared to passive using a bantam amp apparently very similar to the amp boards steve used to make this power (from memory) the dyns active sound as though they have more weight and presence although I do detect a little noise(?) vocals are stronger and perhaps a touch less boxed in. The sound stage is wide.

That's where I'm up to so far, more impressions to come as I fiddle more :)

[Ali Tait]

Good news Ali, let us know how you get on.

And you Hamish

Will do Steve. It's not arrived yet so I guess it won't come till monday now. The OB's actually sound ok driven full range.

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Hamish, pleased to see you are getting on with the experiment ;)

As you have removed the inductor feeding the Dynaudio bass unit you'll get a slightly drier bass response. The inductor will have had some series resistance & this would have raised the driver Q when fitted into the enclosure, only a bit though.

If you have a digital MM then measure the resistance of the inductor that fed the bass driver. Might be worth having a listen to the active setup with a resistor in series with the bass/mid :scratch: This might tip the response back to more how it'd sound with the passive xover, but active obviously :)

Just a thought ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Mark? Time alinement? Is that what this delay knob on the low frequency channels does... I've not player with that yet...

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/fc94d832.jpg

[The Vinyl Adventure]

everything mid and bass sounds quite hard... Especially purcusion an drums, very hard edged... Is that want you mean by dry

[The Vinyl Adventure]

As a side, the noise seems to have cleared up ... Maybe everything just needed to warm up a bit...

[Reid Malenfant]

Not harder no, what i mean is that you'd get a slightly deeper & a bit fuller bass with that series resistance ;)

I'll have to take a look at the manual to see which part of the xover the delay is operating on. You linked, i'll look - but when i'm a little more awake :eyebrows:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Sorry mark, I find some if this technical stuff a bit hard to follow... :)
I'm quite pleased with the bass response but it would be interesting to see if you right... I'll have a look at the passive xovers and get back to you or more help if that's ok?

This is quite impressive I have to say... The drive to the music is very impressive. There is a touch of hardness to the sound as I said but nothing to serious ... I know some people can't hear this "prat" thing, but Im pretty certain I know what people mean when they say it and there is definatly a very strong sence of prat going on here! There is a huge sence of solidity to the sound... Almost, not quite, but almost, to the point of detriment... I don't think I could live with this as my main system ... It's perhaps a bit to forward for long relaxing music sesions... But Blimey, compared to the passive dyns with a stereo bantam amp, this is worlds apart, and a significant step up!!

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Mark, which one of these things do I need to measure the resistance of?
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/b2122f0f.jpg

[Reid Malenfant]

Mark, which one of these things do I need to measure the resistance of?
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/b2122f0f.jpg
That fat thing with the wound copper wire on the right. As it's disconnected from the driver you should get an accurate reading.

Hopefully :)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

... Hmm i might be being stupid ...
I set the multi meter to the 200 ohm setting and it reads 00.7 ... Just connecting the pins of the meter together it reads 00.3...
Am I doing the right thing?

[Reid Malenfant]

Hi Hamish, i'm just about mashed :eyebrows: But, do you have an adjustment on the multimeter so when you short out the test leads it reads "0"?

If so then do it & then measure the inductor again, looks like it'll be somewhere about 0.4 ohms :scratch:

[The Vinyl Adventure]

It's a bit of a shot multi meter mark ...
But yeah 7 - 3 = 4 ... That's not a lot though is it?
I really don't know what I'm talkin about here?

[Macca]

everything mid and bass sounds quite hard... Especially purcusion an drums, very hard edged... Is that want you mean by dry

Hi Hamish

Could be you are trying to run the tweeter a bit to low down or the bass-mid a bit to high up - you will get break up distortion which will make things sound hard - could you try increasing the frequency at which the tweeter comes in and reducing the frequency you are running the mid/bass
up to - by a small degree for both?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Ah, yeah, that makes sence I suppose... I'll give that a go... All of yesterdays listening was done at the same settings ... I figured constantly changing things will result in me getting confused and chasing my tail...

[Macca]

Ah, yeah, that makes sence I suppose... I'll give that a go... All of yesterdays listening was done at the same settings ... I figured constantly changing things will result in me getting confused and chasing my tail...

Just tweak it by degrees using the same test tracks each time, use the sound from the Adams as a reference - I'd have three tracks, one a soft sounding mushy recording, something very bright and shiny sounding and something in - between the two. Try and find the optimum settings - -like cracking a safe!

[Reid Malenfant]

It's a bit of a shot multi meter mark ...
But yeah 7 - 3 = 4 ... That's not a lot though is it?
I really don't know what I'm talkin about here?
It's probably not too far out if the truth be known ;) I wouldn't expect an inductor feeding a bass driver to have a lot of resistance or there would be too much power loss. 0.3 - 0.5 ohms is about right imo :)

[Reid Malenfant]

Hamish, is there any chance of you taking a picture of the rear of the crossover (the original one :ner:) so i can see the circuit? keep that big fat inductor feeding the bass driver on the right hand side if you can, i know it'll be on the reverse of the PCB though :lol:

I have just had a thought, it looks like you are using the 5 1/4" Dynaudio bass mid. These things roll off like a brick at nearly 48Db per octave at a certain frequency & you can bet your boots it'll be at the original xover frequency ;)

You'll need to set the Rane to exactly this frequency to get the drivers to gel ;)

I'll have a read of the manual later & see which channel the delay setting is on. I'm hoping it'll be on the treble channel as the voicecoil will be nearer you than the woofer voicecoil :cool: We want to delay the signal to the tweeter slightly to bring them into time alignment if at all possible...

[aquapiranha]

Hi Hamish. Good to see you have already made progress, I hope it works out for you. Steve

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Hi Hamish. Good to see you have already made progress, I hope it works out for you. Steve

Cheers buddy, yeah, it's a lot of fun this mailarky!

[Reid Malenfant]

It won't do any harm & it might add a bit to the lower bass around 50Hz or so. It might only be 1Db but that's noticeable.

All it'll be doing is lowering the damping factor by introducing the same resistance as the inductor originally feeding the bass driver. This will increase the driver QTS slightly & increase bass a tad. The midrange will only be slightly affected & just a (probably un-noticeable) tad lower in overall volume level.


:doh: Trust you to alter your post :eyebrows: I'm refering to the resistor of about 0.4 ohm ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Hamish, is there any chance of you taking a picture of the rear of the crossover (the original one :ner:) so i can see the circuit? keep that big fat inductor feeding the bass driver on the right hand side if you can, i know it'll be on the reverse of the PCB though :lol:

I have just had a thought, it looks like you are using the 5 1/4" Dynaudio bass mid. These things roll off like a brick at nearly 48Db per octave at a certain frequency & you can bet your boots it'll be at the original xover frequency ;)

You'll need to set the Rane to exactly this frequency to get the drivers to gel ;)

I'll have a read of the manual later & see which channel the delay setting is on. I'm hoping it'll be on the treble channel as the voicecoil will be nearer you than the woofer voicecoil :cool: We want to delay the signal to the tweeter slightly to bring them into time alignment if at all possible...

I'll get a photo up soon gotta cook the roast dinner ... And that's higher on my list of priorities at the mo! ;)
But yeah, your help is appreciated ... Good man :)

[Reid Malenfant]

Typical :doh: The delay is to the bass channel, the same as my Behringers :eyebrows:

Keep it set to zero delay, it's the best you can do :)